2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Zeus · 06-08-2021, 02:39 PM

Just heard a stat on The Ticket in Dallas:
Since winning the championship in the 2010-11 Season, the Mavs are only one of 6 teams that have not won a single playoff series in the decade since that season. That little factoid is a logical barrier to those Mavs fans who claim that both RC is a top level coach and the MBT are good at what they do. There is no way to logically assert that both are true, at least over the past decade.

BPo001 · 06-08-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Just heard a stat on The Ticket in Dallas:
Since winning the championship in the 2010-11 Season, the Mavs are only one of 6 teams that have not won a single playoff series in the decade since that season. That little factoid is a logical barrier to those Mavs fans who claim that both RC is a top level coach and the MBT are good at what they do. There is no way to logically assert that both are true, at least over the past decade.

I’m still confident in Rick to win a playoff series. He hasn’t exactly had much to work with roster wise. I think you could easily make an argument that our rosters have generally overachieved given the shit Donnie/Cuban have given him.

Dallas41 · 06-08-2021, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I’m still confident in Rick to win a playoff series. He hasn’t exactly had much to work with roster wise. I think you could easily make an argument that our rosters have generally overachieved given the shit Donnie/Cuban have given him.

In addition to that if people do their homework they also lost the previous post season before the finals team

They lost in the 1st round and that team had very good talent but it gets swept under the rug.

They've been bounced out the playoffs 7 out of the last 8 post seasons in the 1st round

Makes you wonder if Dirk doesn't go crazy and carry this team in 2011 would the man on the sidelines right now still be here?

EricaLubarsky · 06-08-2021, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Just heard a stat on The Ticket in Dallas:
Since winning the championship in the 2010-11 Season, the Mavs are only one of 6 teams that have not won a single playoff series in the decade since that season. That little factoid is a logical barrier to those Mavs fans who claim that both RC is a top level coach and the MBT are good at what they do. There is no way to logically assert that both are true, at least over the past decade.

This logic is terrible.

No team in the league had a more successful prior decade.
No team in the league was so loyal to their HOF player that they used up all their assets

Dallas41 · 06-09-2021, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

This logic is terrible.

No team in the league had a more successful prior decade.
No team in the league was so loyal to their HOF player that they used up all their assets

Funny you should say that because I don't ever recall any team in the league keeping a HC who has lost 6 straight 1st round playoff series

That's almost unheard of in today's sports

You would think RC is the Bill Belichick of the NBA with that type of job security and the way people praise him.

BigDog63 · 06-09-2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Funny you should say that because I don't ever recall any team in the league keeping a HC who has lost 6 straight 1st round playoff series

That's almost unheard of in today's sports

You would think RC is the Bill Belichick of the NBA with that type of job security and the way people praise him.

If they were favored in any of those, then yes he'd be gone. Probably similar to Marvin Lewis...with the difference I think that RC is regarded around the league as one of the top coaches, and I don't think Lewis ever was.

That said, the string can't continue. Even if Mavs aren't favored next year...still would be showing no progress due to that. If nothing else just to shake things up.

Zeus · 06-09-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

If they were favored in any of those, then yes he'd be gone. Probably similar to Marvin Lewis...with the difference I think that RC is regarded around the league as one of the top coaches, and I don't think Lewis ever was.

That said, the string can't continue. Even if Mavs aren't favored next year...still would be showing no progress due to that. If nothing else just to shake things up.

It is funny because the apologists for the organization point to the fact that how could we ever be expected to win one of these series because we were never favored which is a terrible indictment on the organization in the first place.

MFFL · 06-09-2021, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

If they were favored in any of those, then yes he'd be gone. Probably similar to Marvin Lewis...with the difference I think that RC is regarded around the league as one of the top coaches, and I don't think Lewis ever was.

That said, the string can't continue. Even if Mavs aren't favored next year...still would be showing no progress due to that. If nothing else just to shake things up.

Losing 3 home games trumps being favored in a series in my book

Zeus · 06-09-2021, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

This logic is terrible.

No team in the league had a more successful prior decade.
No team in the league was so loyal to their HOF player that they used up all their assets

You are demonstrably incorrect:
- I specifically said over the last decade so your prior decade comment is irrelevant to my assertion.
- Your second point is irrelevant to the fact they whiffed on draft choices through poor talent evaluation coupled with the fact that the original operation dry powder was MBT misunderstanding the actual impact of the CBA vis-a-vis assets in hand actually more valuable than cap space. Nobody forced the MBT to blow up the team in 2011 - Chandler still had a few good seasons left where his defensive overlay of Dirk still on the back end of a few more good years would have certainly given them a fighting chance of winning a first round series (the original basis for the statement)

NeedlesKane · 06-08-2021, 06:09 PM

It'll take a lot to regain my faith in the team right now. Luka was incredible, and his teammates did not show up. If we have another "meh" postseason then I'm probably skipping out on next season. I'll watch when the front office actually looks like they believe in this city and surrounding Luka with talent that he deserves. As for now? I can do better things with my time.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-08-2021, 08:32 PM

The team is has a dilemma with regards to FA. If they keep KP, re-sign THJ, and J-Rich opts in, then I'm not really sure what they can do. They'll have to find a trade at that point, but what kind of value does J-Rich have? Do you include Kleber or Brunson?

Thats why keeping THJ makes little sense if you truly want to upgrade the roster

SMC0007 · 06-08-2021, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The team is has a dilemma with regards to FA. If they keep KP, re-sign THJ, and J-Rich opts in, then I'm not really sure what they can do. They'll have to find a trade at that point, but what kind of value does J-Rich have? Do you include Kleber or Brunson?

Thats why keeping THJ makes little sense if you truly want to upgrade the roster

And for some reason there are people afraid to let THJ walk and are ready to pay this dude 25 mil. I'm sorry but that's not it. He's a great dude and he wants to be here, but set a hard line for the love of God. We can not afford a 20+mil one dimensional perimeter shooting guy AND retool the team.

Also, Why the hell would JRich opt out, realistically? Not happening.

BPo001 · 06-08-2021, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

And for some reason there are people afraid to let THJ walk and are ready to pay this dude 25 mil. I'm sorry but that's not it. He's a great dude and he wants to be here, but set a hard line for the love of God. We can not afford a 20+mil one dimensional perimeter shooting guy AND retool the team.

Also, Why the hell would JRich opt out, realistically? Not happening.

He’s scheduled to make like $11 mil by opting in? Some team might offer him a multi year deal for around that same amount. Take a chance that maybe he can look like the NBA player again. One can hope, right?

SMC0007 · 06-08-2021, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

He’s scheduled to make like $11 mil by opting in? Some team might offer him a multi year deal for around that same amount. Take a chance that maybe he can look like the NBA player again. One can hope, right?

We can hope. I don't see it.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-08-2021, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

He’s scheduled to make like $11 mil by opting in? Some team might offer him a multi year deal for around that same amount. Take a chance that maybe he can look like the NBA player again. One can hope, right?

Ok...but if you're keeping THJ, then how much does that leave you? Likely not enough to get a serious impact player.

Melonhead · 06-08-2021, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

And for some reason there are people afraid to let THJ walk and are ready to pay this dude 25 mil. I'm sorry but that's not it. He's a great dude and he wants to be here, but set a hard line for the love of God. We can not afford a 20+mil one dimensional perimeter shooting guy AND retool the team.

Also, Why the hell would JRich opt out, realistically? Not happening.

It’s been said multiple times but 20-25m is what these types of players get now. It’s not about being scared to let him go, there’s no one on the market that the Mavs could convince to come here at his offensive caliber.

Dtownsfinest · 06-08-2021, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It’s been said multiple times but 20-25m is what these types of players get now. It’s not about being scared to let him go, there’s no one on the market that the Mavs could convince to come here at his offensive caliber.

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

And for some reason there are people afraid to let THJ walk and are ready to pay this dude 25 mil. I'm sorry but that's not it. He's a great dude and he wants to be here, but set a hard line for the love of God. We can not afford a 20+mil one dimensional perimeter shooting guy AND retool the team.

Also, Why the hell would JRich opt out, realistically? Not happening.

ONCE AGAIN, no one is afraid to let him go. The issue is do you want to spend 25 million on THJ or do you want to spend it on someone else like him? Those are your options. There's no imaginary scenario where we upgrade from THJ.

We know what the deal is with THJ. We know what he is. The fact is 90% of the league is as good as THJ or worse. The other 10% that's in his league or better just aren't available.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2021, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Thank you.

ONCE AGAIN, no one is afraid to let him go. The issue is do you want to spend 25 million on THJ or do you want to spend it on someone else like him? Those are your options. There's no imaginary scenario where we upgrade from THJ.

We know what the deal is with THJ. We know what he is. The fact is 90% of the league is as good as THJ or worse. The other 10% that's in his league or better just aren't available.

It's not an jssue.. it's an easy YES. I do want to spend that on someone else. It's MBT job to find someone who has more tools to surround Luka with. If not then you gotta get him to sign on for around what he is making currently. I don't buy that he is the best option to throw 25m at. If you are OK with what we have been rolling out, then idk what to say. Just watch and enjoy the same results.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2021, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It’s been said multiple times but 20-25m is what these types of players get now. It’s not about being scared to let him go, there’s no one on the market that the Mavs could convince to come here at his offensive caliber.

His offensive caliber? The dude is a magician, unfortunately one of his acts is disappearing. 1 dimensional guys aren't worth that for us. He's a fantastic asset if we have a roster where we JUST lack that outside shooter. If you assume no one else is attainable, like Derozan or whoever else then sure what's the point. Just keep overpaying these guys we have, maybe they will keep getting better if you throw more money at them. Didn't work out for DP.

Melonhead · 06-08-2021, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

His offensive caliber? The dude is a magician, unfortunately one of his acts is disappearing. 1 dimensional guys aren't worth that for us. He's a fantastic asset if we have a roster where we JUST lack that outside shooter. If you assume no one else is attainable, like Derozan or whoever else then sure what's the point. Just keep overpaying these guys we have, maybe they will keep getting better if you throw more money at them. Didn't work out for DP.

You let us know what’s available for someone that can shoot at least 39% from 3 and 44.7% overall. They aren’t waiting in the wings for Dallas. As Dtown already said, we know what he is. We know he disappears.

Melonhead · 06-08-2021, 11:39 PM

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Fv...QA&dl_branch=1

The most accurate thing I’ve ever heard a talking head speak on the Mavs. (Aside from Lukas shooting)

Absolutely must listen.

SMC0007 · 06-09-2021, 12:45 AM

This is going to sting a bit to watch, but I recommend it. It also has more of the fall asleep on D I've been talking about.

https://youtu.be/kM-36NHGaq8

Bryan_Wilson · 06-09-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This is going to sting a bit to watch, but I recommend it. It also has more of the fall asleep on D I've been talking about.

https://youtu.be/kM-36NHGaq8

Thanks for this video, it's a great breakdown.

And now I'm depressed for a whole off season because the best way to improve is to hope his former self returns.... Which I'm not optimistic about.

SMC0007 · 06-09-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Thanks for this video, it's a great breakdown.

And now I'm depressed for a whole off season because the best way to improve is to hope his former self returns.... Which I'm not optimistic about.

Basically. We are just stuck in a tough spot.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-09-2021, 10:52 AM

I remember we started off the season as one of the best defensive teams in the league, and suddenly it was just abandoned. Maybe it was Covid related, or maybe Rick loses his nerve and reverses course too quickly the second something doesn't go his way.

The team is trying too hard to strike a balance in every area and thus it isn't good or great in any.

Dallas41 · 06-09-2021, 12:06 PM

Here's a cool what if scenario I found regarding 3 players the Mavs could have had on this years roster if they were smart and aggressive in the moves like a Phoenix or Atlanta for example this past offseason

Could you guys imagine having Woods, Bogdan and Bane all on this years roster when each was gettable had the Mavs executed properly

Bogdan Bodganovic is an interesting name but he was a restricted free agent. I am still unable to wrap my head around the fact the Kings simply let him walk. No one could have anticipated that and tying up your cap space for three days is a tough pill to swallow. Like Danny Green the year prior, I had my heart set on Christian Wood. His desired average annual salary was a mystery to everyone. Some anticipated he might sign for a contract in the neighborhood of 17-20 million a year. He ultimately signed for a team-friendly contract which might have been the steal of the offseason. While he would have provided some insurance and even played some minutes alongside him, I understand not wanting to allocate significant resources to another big man.

Unfortunately for the Mavericks, they made their bed with Porzingis. With the draft, Josh Green continues to be a puzzling selection. He’s a theoretical 3-and-D wing that isn’t good at the 3 or the D. His best skill is his energy level. Desmond Bane would have been a welcome addition to this year’s Mavericks. Unless Green can take a jump as a player next season, they may regret that pick for a long time.

BPo001 · 06-09-2021, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Here's a cool what if scenario I found regarding 3 players the Mavs could have had on this years roster if they were smart and aggressive in the moves like a Phoenix or Atlanta for example this past offseason

Could you guys imagine having Woods, Bogdan and Bane all on this years roster when each was gettable had the Mavs executed properly

Bogdan Bodganovic is an interesting name but he was a restricted free agent. I am still unable to wrap my head around the fact the Kings simply let him walk. No one could have anticipated that and tying up your cap space for three days is a tough pill to swallow. Like Danny Green the year prior, I had my heart set on Christian Wood. His desired average annual salary was a mystery to everyone. Some anticipated he might sign for a contract in the neighborhood of 17-20 million a year. He ultimately signed for a team-friendly contract which might have been the steal of the offseason. While he would have provided some insurance and even played some minutes alongside him, I understand not wanting to allocate significant resources to another big man.

Unfortunately for the Mavericks, they made their bed with Porzingis. With the draft, Josh Green continues to be a puzzling selection. He’s a theoretical 3-and-D wing that isn’t good at the 3 or the D. His best skill is his energy level. Desmond Bane would have been a welcome addition to this year’s Mavericks. Unless Green can take a jump as a player next season, they may regret that pick for a long time.

Im not a salary cap expert, but did we have room to offer the same contracts to Woods and Bodgan? I’m pretty sure ATL had the most available cap space in the league last season. It’s easy to say “Mavs didn’t try to sign this guy”, but if the salary cap literally won’t allow them to there isn’t much you can do about that. We aren’t the only team that missed out on Woods. Hell teams that already had him didn’t realize he was about to breakout. I think you’re the first person to think Green isn’t good at defense. He looked like he moved his feet well, has good size, and is probably the most athletic player on the team. Time will tell if he was a good pick or not.

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Here's a cool what if scenario I found regarding 3 players the Mavs could have had on this years roster if they were smart and aggressive in the moves like a Phoenix or Atlanta for example this past offseason

Could you guys imagine having Woods, Bogdan and Bane all on this years roster when each was gettable had the Mavs executed properly

Bogdan Bodganovic is an interesting name but he was a restricted free agent. I am still unable to wrap my head around the fact the Kings simply let him walk. No one could have anticipated that and tying up your cap space for three days is a tough pill to swallow. Like Danny Green the year prior, I had my heart set on Christian Wood. His desired average annual salary was a mystery to everyone. Some anticipated he might sign for a contract in the neighborhood of 17-20 million a year. He ultimately signed for a team-friendly contract which might have been the steal of the offseason. While he would have provided some insurance and even played some minutes alongside him, I understand not wanting to allocate significant resources to another big man.

Unfortunately for the Mavericks, they made their bed with Porzingis. With the draft, Josh Green continues to be a puzzling selection. He’s a theoretical 3-and-D wing that isn’t good at the 3 or the D. His best skill is his energy level. Desmond Bane would have been a welcome addition to this year’s Mavericks. Unless Green can take a jump as a player next season, they may regret that pick for a long time.

I really wanted Christian Wood. I kept up with him in Detroit...I didn't even understand why the Pistons spent money on Plumlee and Grant but not Wood..hated the Rockets got him. Loved Bane too but I don't know if Carlisile would've even played him. Of course I wanted Saadiq Bey......

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-09-2021, 06:00 PM

Donnie Nelson:

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 06:28 PM

Anyone interested in Kemba Walker?

rimrocker · 06-09-2021, 06:32 PM

Any chance Orlando would move Vuc this off season?

SMC0007 · 06-09-2021, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Any chance Orlando would move Vuc this off season?

For whom?

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Any chance Orlando would move Vuc this off season?

Vuc is a Chicago Bull.

Melonhead · 06-10-2021, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Any chance Orlando would move Vuc this off season?

Edit

SMC0007 · 06-09-2021, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Anyone interested in Kemba Walker?

For KP? Trade one injured problem for a completely different one 6 years older. I don't. He's not the idea I had in mind for adding a creator. Too small and unreliable health.

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

For KP? Trade one injured problem for a completely different one 6 years older. I don't. He's not the idea I had in mind for adding a creator. Too small and unreliable health.

I mean I guess it would have to be for KP....I just read he and the Celtics want to part ways so I though maybe it was a chance to get him for low value...not really sure for what though.

Not sure how bad the injuries are....when you are on a bad team you tend to miss games.

Dallas41 · 06-09-2021, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Anyone interested in Kemba Walker?

Doesn't he pose the same injury concerns and defensive fit next to Luka as KP did?

Besides I'm tired of small guards who can't help us on the defensive end come playoff time

Mavs need to grab some legit wings who can matchup defensively out west

These one trick pony small guards aren't helping this team.

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Doesn't he pose the same injury concerns and defensive fit next to Luka as KP did?

Besides I'm tired of small guards who can't help us on the defensive end come playoff time

Mavs need to grab some legit wings who can matchup defensively out west

These one trick pony small guards aren't helping this team.

I'm kind of over looking for guys for defense. I need scorers.

BPo001 · 06-09-2021, 06:56 PM

My friend said he saw somewhere KP for Bagley/Hield. Not sure if that works salary cap wise, but that would give us a knockdown outside shooter, and RC has a knack for getting the most out of 1st round busts. Maybe he could get Bagley to play to his potential.

Dtownsfinest · 06-09-2021, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

My friend said he saw somewhere KP for Bagley/Hield. Not sure if that works salary cap wise, but that would give us a knockdown outside shooter, and RC has a knack for getting the most out of 1st round busts. Maybe he could get Bagley to play to his potential.

I'd love to do that I just don't know if the Kings would. I guess Bagley may be considered a bust but he's actually a very good player. Is in the same vein as Christian Wood and John Collins.