Some Plus/Minus Stats

[grbh]

I would copy and paste, but it is just too long to do so, and the stats would come out jumbled. Pretty interesting read though.

Link

[Max Power]

We'll be up front about it, we love what Don Nelson has done in building teams -- putting together some of the most entertaining rosters and running substitution patterns that go against "the rules." However, his fascination with playing for lineup mismatches may be bordering on stubborness at this stage. The top "most used unit" in terms of per 48 minute net plus/minus production is none other than the Dallas quintet of Nash-Finley-Jamison-Walker-Nowitzki. These guys have played a mere 6% of the total minutes for the Mavs, but are outscoring foes by 33 points "per game." Here's a suggestion: go with these guys for longer stretches! A 53% to 39% effective field goal percentage advantage doesn't strike us as a fluke

I wish the site would note that the Mavs have been unable to field that lineup very often due to injuries.

[grbh]

Granted but 6% is less than 3 minutes per game. I would imagine we will see it more, and of course there are certain teams where that lineup may not be very effective (Lakers).

[Usually Lurkin]

the more time spent with all those guys on the floor also means more time spent with none of those guys on the floor.
What's the +/- of Delk/Howard/Daniels/Najera/Fortson?

The other thought that comes to mind is that Nelson knows our top 5 is a powerful group of players, and that they can already do good things together. Maybe 1) he doesn't want other teams to get a lot of experience playing against that lineup, and 2) the improvement of other lineups is a priority.

It gives me nausea to defend Nelson.

[Chiwas]

At the end, all the stats even up with the 17-12 record.

[seelenjaeger]

Sorry, but one of the reasons WHY this lineup is outscoring their opponents by so much is THAT it has only played that few time together.

Playing far longer stretches would expose its defensive flaws, although I think we would STILL outscore opponents with this lineup statistically, would likely limit its effect. At least the nice number of 33 per game would drop.

[V]

Good point Jaeger.... even further, one could say that this stat provides evidence that Nelly's matchup system is working effectively.

That lineup plays only when Nelly sees a significant favorable matchup.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Sorry, but one of the reasons WHY this lineup is outscoring their opponents by so much is THAT it has only played that few time together.

Playing far longer stretches would expose its defensive flaws, although I think we would STILL outscore opponents with this lineup statistically, would likely limit its effect. At least the nice number of 33 per game would drop.

yep..basically a couple of nice stretches could completely skew these numbers when it's based on so little data.

[grbh]

Here are the individual +/-


On Court OFF Net
Nowitzki +7.8.... -3.3........... +11.1
Finley +6.5........ -1.8.......... +8.2
Nash +6.0........ -0.8.......... +6.8
Howard +7.5.... +1.3.......... +6.2
Walker +4.0...... +2.7......... +1.3
Najera +2.8....... +4.1......... -1.3
Best +2.1.......... +4.3......... -2.1
Jamison +2.8.... +5.2......... .-2.4
Fortson -3.3..... +5.5...........-8.8
Bradley -5.6..... +5.3......... -10.9
Delk -5.0.......... +7.2......... -12.2
Daniels -9.4..... +5.0......... -14.4


A couple surprises in here. I wouldn't have thought both Jamison and Bradley would in the negative. Delk's numbers are just attrocious.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: grbh
Here are the individual +/-


On Court OFF Net
Nowitzki +7.8.... -3.3........... +11.1
Finley +6.5........ -1.8.......... +8.2
Nash +6.0........ -0.8.......... +6.8
Howard +7.5.... +1.3.......... +6.2
Walker +4.0...... +2.7......... +1.3
Najera +2.8....... +4.1......... -1.3
Best +2.1.......... +4.3......... -2.1
Jamison +2.8.... +5.2......... .-2.4
Fortson -3.3..... +5.5...........-8.8
Bradley -5.6..... +5.3......... -10.9
Delk -5.0.......... +7.2......... -12.2
Daniels -9.4..... +5.0......... -14.4


A couple surprises in here. I wouldn't have thought both Jamison and Bradley would in the negative. Delk's numbers are just attrocious.

Amazing, isn't it? There was a time when Walker being ON the court would be a Negative....My how things change. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Walkerforthree]

Hmm... Dirk's first, what a shocker!

[V]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
Hmm... Dirk's first, what a shocker!

Nothing against Dirk... but remember, if he's not on the court then the Mavs either dont have a player on the court who's taller than 6'9" or Bradley is playing center. In that context it's no suprise to see -3.3 when Dirk's not playing.

Neither am I suprised to see jamison in the red. Defensive liability to great to overcome?

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone throws rocks at me for Dirk bashing you will note that I think Dirk in the Mavs best player. Hail #41.

[V]

Just noticed... I posted this as my favorite lineup in another thread... hope to see more of these guys on the court at the same time...

Nowitzki +7.8.... -3.3........... +11.1
Finley +6.5........ -1.8.......... +8.2
Nash +6.0........ -0.8.......... +6.8
Howard +7.5.... +1.3.......... +6.2
Walker +4.0...... +2.7......... +1.3

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: V

Nothing against Dirk... but remember, if he's not on the court then the Mavs either dont have a player on the court who's taller than 6'9" or Bradley is playing center. In that context it's no suprise to see -3.3 when Dirk's not playing.

Neither am I suprised to see jamison in the red. Defensive liability to great to overcome?

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone throws rocks at me for Dirk bashing you will note that I think Dirk in the Mavs best player. Hail #41.

Geez now everyone has to do penance for a critical comment. ;^)

You know I was very surprised to see that number on jamison? I thought when I saw it that he was playing with the poor second team and that's why he wasn't doing so well.
I really haven't watched him closelly, is his defense that poor??

[Bayliss]

He makes Dirk look like All-World. As bad as people perceive Dirk's defense, he can still rebound on the defensive end. He can still get in the passing lanes. And he can block a shot a time or two. And body up on a semi-big player like Vlade. Jamison on the other hand is not a good defensive rebounder. He cannot block shots. He cannot attain steals. And he cannot body up people in the post.

I like Jamison... and personally I believe he is a better fit than Walker. But he is a horrible defender. And his biggest problem is his "tweener" status. What makes him a mismatch offensively makes him a liability defensively for the mentioned above.

[dude1394]

Ouch not good. That has me leaning back over to the walker category. Wow what a see-saw this whole thing is. ;^)