McCain's VP Pick?

[u2sarajevo]

No race baiting. I just know how you think.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

No race baiting. I just know how you think.

Thats the spirit I like to see. Tell me what I am thinking now? Better yet, tell me what the numbers are going to be next week for the lottery. By the way, you owe me some rep points. How about it ole friend?

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

who cares what money they spent on palin? it's not "wasteful", she should look as good as she can.

I'm confident that obama and biden are not shopping at goodwill for their suits...

Exactly...I'm sure if we saw all the receipts from both campaign buses some people would be appalled, and that's just the way it's always going to be. I wonder how much money they all spend on food...they're not exactly eating ramen either.


But the public buys what the press is selling, and they've only got the one option these days...Joe Biden predicts international crisis within 6 months of Obama getting elected and the top article on drudge and google news this morning is Palins clothing.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

who cares what money they spent on palin? it's not "wasteful", she should look as good as she can.

I'm confident that obama and biden are not shopping at goodwill for their suits...

I call it wasteful, because according to reports, she is not even keeping the clothes . You know that has to be funny that they are spending money like that, while McCain is so much against wasteful spending.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

as you know, those items (tax records and licenses) are already public info, easy to get by just about anyone.

Sure they are, but it's not hard to get the other stuff, either. If you actually try, that is.

not too hard to find obama's birth certificate, here's one place

Yes, I'm familiar with the digital copies of an alleged birth certificate that have been produced by the Obama campaign.

Are you aware that Obama is being sued by a lifelong Democrat who is alleging that Obama isn't a citizen of the United States? Nah, probably not. It seems like that might be a newsworthy item, but apparently the MSM doesn't think so.

or his medical situation
here's a news story about obama's medical history

I'm talking about the medical records from the hospital in Hawaii where he was allegedly born. Should be VERY easy for him to obtain and disclose.

as for columbia college, what information would be relevant? do you want to know what courses he took? his professors? we know he matriculated, that's about all that is important.

isn't it?

I'd like to know about his political involvements on campus. I'd like to know about his drug use. There are a number of things I'd like to know about. The media has managed to dig up a lot more about Sarah Palin in 2 months than they have about Obama in 20.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

But the public buys what the press is selling, and they've only got the one option these days...Joe Biden predicts international crisis within 6 months of Obama getting elected and the top article on drudge and google news this morning is Palins clothing.

Irrelevant. Even if The One isn't going to respond in a way that seems correct at the time, you just need to be prepared to support him.

Okay?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Exactly...I'm sure if we saw all the receipts from both campaign buses some people would be appalled, and that's just the way it's always going to be. I wonder how much money they all spend on food...they're not exactly eating ramen either.


But the public buys what the press is selling, and they've only got the one option these days...Joe Biden predicts international crisis within 6 months of Obama getting elected and the top article on drudge and google news this morning is Palins clothing.

You know what, I agree on it, and I also agree that Biden should not have made those remarks right now as well. Not only because National Security plays in McCain favor for the most part, but he may be privy to some insider information on some increased activity and should have been quiet on this situation.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

But the public buys what the press is selling, and they've only got the one option these days...Joe Biden predicts international crisis within 6 months of Obama getting elected and the top article on drudge and google news this morning is Palins clothing.

you are aware that joe leiberman in june said the very same thoing joe biden did about the islamic terrorists likely trying something soon after the next president starts, right?

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

you are aware that joe leiberman in june said the very same thoing joe biden did about the islamic terrorists likely trying something soon after the next president starts, right?

NO, I didn't know that. Report on that too. I want the media to do their job. They're not doing it.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

you are aware that joe leiberman in june said the very same thoing joe biden did about the islamic terrorists likely trying something soon after the next president starts, right?

Biden didn't say they were going to test "the next president". He said they were going to test Obama.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Sure they are, but it's not hard to get the other stuff, either. If you actually try, that is.

yes, what you asked for is easy to find.

Yes, I'm familiar with the digital copies of an alleged birth certificate that have been produced by the Obama campaign.

Are you aware that Obama is being sued by a lifelong Democrat who is alleging that Obama isn't a citizen of the United States? Nah, probably not. It seems like that might be a newsworthy item, but apparently the MSM doesn't think so.

"alleged"? not too hard to see where your slanted view resides.

yes, I'm aware of philip berg's lawsuit, and imo it is frivilous. this issue has been vetted and resolved.

I'm talking about the medical records from the hospital in Hawaii where he was allegedly born. Should be VERY easy for him to obtain and disclose.

those would be his mother's records, and why would they be released? not relevant.

I'd like to know about his political involvements on campus. I'd like to know about his drug use. There are a number of things I'd like to know about. The media has managed to dig up a lot more about Sarah Palin in 2 months than they have about Obama in 20.

wow, talk about ridiculous. "political involvements"? sounds like a witchhunt for whatever contacts that he might have had that could be exploited in an attempt to smear him to me.

joe mccarthy is resurrected! let's leave that tragic legacy behind us, ok?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Biden didn't say they were going to test "the next president". He said they were going to test Obama.

looks like the words are going to be one in the same...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

who cares what money they spent on palin? it's not "wasteful", she should look as good as she can.

I'm confident that obama and biden are not shopping at goodwill for their suits...

Thank you.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

yes, what you asked for is easy to find.

So why not get it?

"alleged"? not too hard to see where your slanted view resides.

My viewpoint resides in the realm of legal proof, something I'm quite certain I'm more familiar with than you. What Obama has produced thus far constitutes nothing more than hearsay.

I say alleged birth certificate because what he has produced thus far does not constitute legal proof of his citizenship.

yes, I'm aware of philip berg's lawsuit, and imo it is frivilous. this issue has been vetted and resolved.

You're very well read, so I'm sure that you are. Why is it, though, that CNN/NBC/ABC/CBS/PBS/Fox haven't done stories on the issue? (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Since you are familiar with his lawsuit, you are probably also familiar with who he is. Philip Berg is a lifelong Democrat who assisted with Al Gore's legal challenges in Florida in 2000. It's really hard to employ the usual character assassination techniques against him that Democrats employ against pretty much anyone else.

I completely disagree with your assertion that the issue has been "vetted and resolved." Moreover, I think we can both agree with Philip Berg on one point: This is an issue that COULD be very easily resolved. All Obama would have to do is produce his original birth certificate and the medical records from the hospital in Hawaii verifying that he was born there, and the issue could be put to rest.

So why won't he do it? When a similar lawsuit was filed against McCain, he immediately produced his original birth certificate and medical records to address any concerns.

It's simple: produce the birth certificate and medical records. What good reason could there be not to do it?

those would be his mother's records, and why would they be released? not relevant.

Why wouldn't they be released? It would be really simple to verify her identity and the fact that she gave birth at the hospital in Hawaii to a son named Barack Hussein Obama.

Don't you think it's important to take what are really simple steps to verify that the man meets the Constitutional requirements to serve as President?

wow, talk about ridiculous. "political involvements"? sounds like a witchhunt for whatever contacts that he might have had that could be exploited in an attempt to smear him to me.

joe mccarthy is resurrected! let's leave that tragic legacy behind us, ok?

Nice red herring, but it won't work with me.

It is fairly standard stuff to find out about the college career of Presidential candidates. That's how we discovered that both Bush and Kerry were members of the Skull and Bones fraternity, etc. Stop acting like it's something that it's not.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

looks like the words are going to be one in the same...

You're missing the point. He said that they would challenge the United States because Obama will be in charge.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Don't you think it's important to take what are really simple steps to verify that the man meets the Constitutional requirements to serve as President?

I do. And I expect that someone somewhere is responsible for doing this, and has already done it in this case.

[u2sarajevo]

Well really kg is that surprising? I think we all know that McCain would respond with force.

There is a perception that Obama would resist that. But we don't know.

I think that's what Biden meant. I didn't think it was bad for him to say that at all. I don't get the scrutiny.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I do. And I expect that someone somewhere is responsible for doing this, and has already done it in this case.

Then why don't THEY step forward and put the issue to rest? I frankly don't know whether he is or isn't, but I DO know that it's something that is easily resolved. McCain resolved the issue with regard to his citizenship quickly by producing the records. There is absolutely no good reason to lay behind the log on this issue.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Well really kg is that surprising? I think we all know that McCain would respond with force.

There is a perception that Obama would resist that. But we don't know.

I think that's what Biden meant. I didn't think it was bad for him to say that at all. I don't get the scrutiny.

I don't guess it's a bad thing to say. He really was just prepping Democratic supporters for the idea that when Russia or Iran, for example, openly defy the United States and dare them to do something about it, they shouldn't be surprised to see Obama back down.

[mary]

who cares what money they spent on palin? it's not "wasteful", she should look as good as she can.

I'm confident that obama and biden are not shopping at goodwill for their suits...

I agree. I'm sure presidential candidates tend to spend alot of money on clothes.

[Silk Smoov]

I think it is stupid as hell to EVEN suggest that Obama would back down from enemies. I stand behind Obama 100% that when and/or "IF" he is confronted with obstacles or challenges as a President he will rise to the occasion. I think it is just silly thinking to think otherwise. There are NO cowards running for President, and I even think ole Palin would not back down as well, no matter what if she is right or wrong if America is attacked.

If your worries are about Obama being soft, then you dont have a reason to worry. Now, if you worry that he will NOT rush to judgement, then be VERY worried. I do worry that McCain WOULD rush to judgement and we could be in worse shape as we are now.

BUT, back down for any of the President or VP candidates, I KNOW not..

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

So why not get it?

??? they have the birth certificate, they provided it for all to see, so it's a question of what else you need....

My viewpoint resides in the realm of legal proof, something I'm quite certain I'm more familiar with than you. What Obama has produced thus far constitutes nothing more than hearsay.

I say alleged birth certificate because what he has produced thus far does not constitute legal proof of his citizenship.

it's a birth certificate from the state of hawaii establishing that he was born there, so a) he is the child of a us citizen. b) born on us soil.

just what other "legal proof" do you seek? it's enough!

You're very well read, so I'm sure that you are. Why is it, though, that CNN/NBC/ABC/CBS/PBS/Fox haven't done stories on the issue? (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Since you are familiar with his lawsuit, you are probably also familiar with who he is. Philip Berg is a lifelong Democrat who assisted with Al Gore's legal challenges in Florida in 2000. It's really hard to employ the usual character assassination techniques against him that Democrats employ against pretty much anyone else.

I completely disagree with your assertion that the issue has been "vetted and resolved." Moreover, I think we can both agree with Philip Berg on one point: This is an issue that COULD be very easily resolved. All Obama would have to do is produce his original birth certificate and the medical records from the hospital in Hawaii verifying that he was born there, and the issue could be put to rest.

So why won't he do it? When a similar lawsuit was filed against McCain, he immediately produced his original birth certificate and medical records to address any concerns.

It's simple: produce the birth certificate and medical records. What good reason could there be not to do it?

for one, berg is a hillary clinton supporter who (my take) is misguided in his efforts to remove obama from the ballot in hope that hillary would become the nominee.

the fact that he is not a republican does not mean that the lawsuit isn't frivilous, and the fact that he is a democrat doen't give the lawsuit any stronger foundation.

obama has furnished a birth certificate provided by the state of hawaii. the "original" could not exist (do you know where your original bc is? I don't know where my original bc is...) and for all intent and purposes the state has validated his birth in hawaii.

Why wouldn't they be released? It would be really simple to verify her identity and the fact that she gave birth at the hospital in Hawaii to a son named Barack Hussein Obama.

Don't you think it's important to take what are really simple steps to verify that the man meets the Constitutional requirements to serve as President?

for most of us, that step was taken when the state issued birth certificate wasvalidated as genuine and shown here .

Nice red herring, but it won't work with me.

It is fairly standard stuff to find out about the college career of Presidential candidates. That's how we discovered that both Bush and Kerry were members of the Skull and Bones fraternity, etc. Stop acting like it's something that it's not.

he's provided what is relevant, and stuff such as skull and bones is irrelevant. who cares?

the whole issue of delving into the college "associations" is the red herring...

[92bDad]

This is all interesting stuff and I know nothing of the validity or not of this "Birth Certificate" issue, but Mavdog asks a question about supplying our own original birth certificate.

Well, that is not a problem. I actually have mine and I have the Gov't papers that show my U.S. citizenship as a result of being born abroad.

I was born in Spain and have my original Spanish Birth Certificate along with the form from the US (I forget the form number)...I needed these documents when I joined the Military back in 86'

So, I believe that this is a fair question to ask regarding the original copies.

If on the same token, this is a State Certified copy due to a loss of an original and the State of Hawaii has the data to support that this is legit, then also this should be a non-issue.

What is fishy, is that again we have a smoking gun that Obama refuses to simply put the cards on the table. There is no full disclosure with this guy, it's like no matter what he is asked, he hides a portion of the answer. Why...this is a huge Character Flaw waving a flag to all of us that he is hiding something and who knows how much he is hiding.

How many smoking guns will it take for his supporters to take at least a cursory look and explain the history of Obama, which is not pleasant to say the least.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Does anyone else think we know waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much about 92bdad's personal history? Every single post is a mini-autobiography!

[dude1394]

So where is the corresponding clothes bill for barack?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So where is the corresponding clothes bill for barack?

Barack is representing neither "regular old hockey moms" nor "Joe Six-Pack." Six pack of Dom Perignon, maybe!

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Barack is representing neither "regular old hockey moms" nor "Joe Six-Pack." Six pack of Dom Perignon, maybe!

Yes, Obama is representing the snooty rich. He is, after all, The One.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So where is the corresponding clothes bill for barack?

obama is an old fashioned guy, he pays for his own clothes.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So where is the corresponding clothes bill for barack?

I think more properly, the correspondence would be a hair-plug/botox bill for Biden.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

??? they have the birth certificate, they provided it for all to see, so it's a question of what else you need....



it's a birth certificate from the state of hawaii establishing that he was born there, so a) he is the child of a us citizen. b) born on us soil.

just what other "legal proof" do you seek? it's enough!



for one, berg is a hillary clinton supporter who (my take) is misguided in his efforts to remove obama from the ballot in hope that hillary would become the nominee.

the fact that he is not a republican does not mean that the lawsuit isn't frivilous, and the fact that he is a democrat doen't give the lawsuit any stronger foundation.

obama has furnished a birth certificate provided by the state of hawaii. the "original" could not exist (do you know where your original bc is? I don't know where my original bc is...) and for all intent and purposes the state has validated his birth in hawaii.



for most of us, that step was taken when the state issued birth certificate wasvalidated as genuine and shown here .



he's provided what is relevant, and stuff such as skull and bones is irrelevant. who cares?

the whole issue of delving into the college "associations" is the red herring...

Okay, now your transformation IS complete. Much like Alan Colmes, you completely ignored what I said and just repeated yourself.

BTW, you'll have to pardon me if I don't want to trust FactCheck.Org on this one, either. I don't find them to be "non-partisan" at all, and I found their article on the subject very unconvincing.

The lawsuit will ultimately be dismissed, because Berg doesn't have standing to bring the case. But that doesn't make the question he is raising illegitimate. In fact, this is a question of legitimacy, and it is one that has yet to be answered.

[chumdawg]

Is she just a good ol' hockey-mom, Joe-six-pack sort of gal, or is she Richard Gere's "Pretty Woman"?

[chumdawg]

KG, let me get this straight, because I have actually spent a good deal of time today thinking about it. You are claiming, correct, that the birth certificate Obama produced is not sufficient evidence to establish that he meets the Constitutional requirements of the presidential office?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

KG, let me get this straight, because I have actually spent a good deal of time today thinking about it. You are claiming, correct, that the birth certificate Obama produced is not sufficient evidence to establish that he meets the Constitutional requirements of the presidential office?

I am saying that without a witness with knowledge to verify that the document is authentic or certification of the document by the appropriate government agency in Hawaii, the document legally proves nothing.

I am also saying that it would be very easy (and this has not been disputed by anyone, because it is clearly true) for Obama to sign a release which would allow the press to have access to his medical records in Hawaii.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I am saying that without a witness with knowledge to verify that the document is authentic or certification of the document by the appropriate government agency in Hawaii, the document legally proves nothing.

I am also saying that it would be very easy (and this has not been disputed by anyone, because it is clearly true) for Obama to sign a release which would allow the press to have access to his medical records in Hawaii.

Are you saying he has NOT signed a release to have access to his medical records in Hawaii so this could be verified? And no MSM has bothered to look at it. Not even C"BS"? It would seem right up their alley.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I am saying that without a witness with knowledge to verify that the document is authentic or certification of the document by the appropriate government agency in Hawaii, the document legally proves nothing.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean here. The state issued a birth certificate record, but it needs to be certified by the appropriate government agency of the state? What is it you are asking for? We certify that that which we have certified is indeed certified?

I am also saying that it would be very easy (and this has not been disputed by anyone, because it is clearly true) for Obama to sign a release which would allow the press to have access to his medical records in Hawaii.

Does it not stand to reason with you that if there are details in Obama's medical records that will set this issue to rest with you, they would have already been been released? Do you wish to speak as an expert on the state of medical records in Hawaii in 1961?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

We certify that that which we have certified is indeed certified?

I'm not sure what kind of copy has been offered. But you do need a certified copy of your birth certificate to get a marriage license in Texas. And you need one to enroll in school. I don't think a non-certified copy will do.

Does it not stand to reason with you that if there are details in Obama's medical records that will set this issue to rest with you, they would have already been been released? Do you wish to speak as an expert on the state of medical records in Hawaii in 1961?

This begs a question.

[Burn this City]

So does my birth certificate need to be certified before I run for president too?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I'm not sure what kind of copy has been offered. But you do need a certified copy of your birth certificate to get a marriage license in Texas. And you need one to enroll in school. I don't think a non-certified copy will do.

Are there issues of birth certificates that are not certified?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Burn this City

So does my birth certificate need to be certified before I run for president too?

I would think that if there were questions about your eligibility, the answer would be yes. Or else why bother with the rules for eligibility? I think getting a certified copy is as easy as filling out a form on the web.

Originally Posted by chumdawh

Are there issues of birth certificates that are not certified?

evidently, there are non-certified copies available. I'm not sure what goes into certification, but since the state requires a certified copy, it must mean something.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

evidently, there are non-certified copies available. I'm not sure what goes into certification, but since the state requires a certified copy, it must mean something.

I was in a position once where I needed a copy of my birth certificate, not having the original. I was able to get one, and it was certainly certified.

What's more...if I hadn't been born in the county, I don't expect that I would have gotten one.

I don't expect that govermental entities are in the business of handing out "non-certified" copies of birth certificates.