Is Anyone Gonna Say It? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 04-04-2011, 08:09 AM

Of all the things on this team to be worried about...dirk's attitude is not one of them.

DTownKidd · 04-04-2011, 08:23 AM

Do you guys think that we are taking it easy for the remainder of the season? Dirk looked pretty lazy and frustrated last night. There was no emotion from the team.

Lor20 · 04-04-2011, 08:44 AM

the whole team is obviously in a slump after the lakers game. they thought they could get number 2... then got killed and now figure they aren't playing for anything because they feel like they are locked in at #3.
That plus many games on the road will wear down most teams spirits. They just got to get out of the funk and play well against denver - who might just be the best playing team in the league right now.

And TBH - 3rd or fourth.... doesn't seem that big of a difference. With the lakers playing better than the spurs lately a second round matchup with the spurs might be preferrable over the lakers (that is if the mavs could beat denver which has to be doubted).

We have a ton of depth but the problem is we only have one great player in dirk, 2 really good players with tyson and butler and a whole slew of inconsistent role players - most of which are at the end of their career as well.

jthig32 · 04-04-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't know. I've never been a Kidd fan so maybe i'm speaking from a Kidd doubter perspective rather than speaking as a NBA fan but Kidd last season was a product of teams simply not giving a damn about him. They would literally leave him wide open for him to shoot a 3 with his toe on the line. I've never had confidence in his offensive game from jump. He's terrible at driving to the lane. His mid range game is not even worth noting. His 3 point shot has been inconsistent at best. I just hope the Mavs didn't go into this season expect much more than what Kidd is giving them. We came out of this offseason with Tyson Chandler and I questioned the move at the time but its ended up being a GREAT move. But I said this offseason the Mavs were more than a Tyson Chandler away from contending last season and that's what we came out of this offseason with. Tyson Chandler and that's it. The first position this team needs to look into acquiring is a legit two guard who can defend. Every other team can seem to find them but we can't.

Kidd shot 43% from three last year, and 40% the year before. He also bumped up to taking over 5 of them a game last year. By the end of the season he was regularly making semi-contested threes. And it was a huge lift to the offense.

Kidd's inability to hit anything at all is a major, major factor in the struggles of the Mavs right now.

Sportstudi · 04-04-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's also pretty melodramatic and over the top. I think it's far more likely that Dirk was simply exhausted at the end of this road trip, and at the end of a 4 games in 6 nights.

It were 4 games in only 5 nights. Just the Friday was off.

Axilla · 04-04-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Of all the things on this team to be worried about...dirk's attitude is not one of them.

disagree.

dirk is the LEADER. if you can't see how his personality is manifest in how the mavs play (and have played for years), then perhaps you value dirk more than you value winning.

dirk is laid back. he continually describes Other players as 4th quarter closers. he settles for jumpers and threes when he should have learned how to play in the paint years ago. sure he has a great jumper and has the size advantage--but he's still one-dimensional--just like Dallas.

its too late to change anything--and his individual play will probably not fall off for a while....but i used to believe this and now its looking true again:

no team is going to win the championship with dirk as the best player

JeffViggiano · 04-04-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axilla

no team is going to win the championship with dirk as the best player

hahahahahahahahah WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!

wilmtalk · 04-04-2011, 10:26 AM

Axilla--- You are wrong. Thats a talking head statement. Thats the slam they have always used exclusively against Dirk and non of the other top players. No one on this site recently has dared to even mention it lately but now that they are on a losing streak the same old crap comes up again. If the rest of the team was solid and didn't totally rely on him to do all the scoring then it would be possible. What applys to Dirk also applys to a lot of the so called superstars. He just has never had the solid teams other players have had. Kobi couldn't do it until they got Gasol along with the rest of the present lakers. A super star or even two does not guarantee a title. It takes balence and complementory players not necessarily better players. A team needs balence to get through the play offs. No one player can not sustain a high enough level though all the games neccessary to win every series.

Axilla · 04-04-2011, 10:27 AM

i was going to change it to focus of the offense.

no team is going to win a championship with dirk as the focus of the offense.

obviously dirk has insane skills that could allow him to be the "best" player on any given team.

ISO dirk, and pick n pop, and the rotate around the perimeter plays exists because the mavs try to play to dirk's strengths....but they continue the main thing the mavs need to change---jumpshots.

and what top tier player is going to want to play alongside dirk in this framework? who was the last one? nash?

Axilla · 04-04-2011, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Axilla--- You are wrong. Thats a talking head statement. Thats the slam they have always used exclusively against Dirk and non of the other top players. No one on this site recently has dared to even mention it lately but now that they are on a losing streak the same old crap comes up again. If the rest of the team was solid and didn't totally rely on him to do all the scoring then it would be possible. What applys to Dirk also applys to a lot of the so called superstars. He just has never had the solid teams other players have had. Kobi couldn't do it until they got Gasol along with the rest of the present lakers. A super star or even two does not guarantee a title. It takes balence and complementory players not necessarily better players. A team needs balence to get through the play offs. No one player can not sustain a high enough level though all the games neccessary to win every series.

i don't think you realize that you're adding to my point

markus1234 · 04-04-2011, 11:36 AM

Dirk is "passive" because he does not get the FREKIN BALL ! Dirk is a PF and not a guard. You have to FEED HIM.

When Dirk is in the game he has to babysit ballhogs like Barea, Terry or a rookie like Roddy. And Rick Carlisle is stupid enough to accept 5 or more consecutive possessions where Dirk does not even touch the ball. All we see is Jet bricking a fast break 3 with 20sec on the shot clock or JJB dribbling the ball for 20sec and then turning it over.

Earlier in the season Dirk's temamtes made their shots and did not force anything, but right now you can clearly see that a guy like Jet or JJB are in "me 1st" mode because of their shooting slump. And Kidd's old legs can't create anything. A guy like Kidd needs to attack the basket/or post up and dish it out to an open guy. But he can't do it anymore. He is more or less a dead,.... even Brandon Roy with two bad knees could do it yesterday.

SMC0007 · 04-04-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dirk is "passive" because he does not get the FREKIN BALL ! Dirk is a PF and not a guard. You have to FEED HIM.

When Dirk is in the game he has to babysit ballhogs like Barea, Terry or a rookie like Roddy. And Rick Carlisle is stupid enough to accept 5 or more consecutive possessions where Dirk does not even touch the ball. All we see is Jet bricking a fast break 3 with 20sec on the shot clock or JJB dribbling the ball for 20sec and then turning it over.

Earlier in the season Dirk's temamtes made their shots and did not force anything, but right now you can clearly see that a guy like Jet or JJB are in "me 1st" mode because of their shooting slump. And Kidd's old legs can't create anything. A guy like Kidd needs to attack the basket/or post up and dish it out to an open guy. But he can't do it anymore. He is more or less a dead,.... even Brandon Roy with two bad knees could do it yesterday.

Kidd kinda sucks an he won't take shots. Just sits around the perimeter and passes the ball.

JJB doesn't hog the ball as much as you mention, he is trying to contribute to wins, I think he's played well the last two games. He is pretty much the only means of penetration we have now. Idk wtf happened to Rod lately he needs to not be learning from Kidd but learn from JJB.

nowhereman · 04-04-2011, 01:42 PM

Over the course of the game he is not nearly as aggressive as he has been. It's probably the knee (as recent opponents have pointed out) and it's probably partially him saving himself for the POs

dude1394 · 04-04-2011, 02:44 PM

Who is the closer for the spurs?? manu is, not duncan.. Now I do think the mavs would be a better team if dirk played defense like duncan but offensively...he's absolutely fine...all the yakking about him not being a power player is ridiculous.

Kidd Karma · 04-04-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Who is the closer for the spurs?? manu is, not duncan.. Now I do think the mavs would be a better team if dirk played defense like duncan but offensively...he's absolutely fine...all the yakking about him not being a power player is ridiculous.

Yep, Manu is the triple threat, can't box him in when he starts on the perimeter, you can surround Duncan on the box. Manu, will create for himself or another, he can finish, kick, or draw a foul, that's a closer.

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axilla

disagree.

dirk is the LEADER. if you can't see how his personality is manifest in how the mavs play (and have played for years), then perhaps you value dirk more than you value winning.

dirk is laid back. he continually describes Other players as 4th quarter closers. he settles for jumpers and threes when he should have learned how to play in the paint years ago. sure he has a great jumper and has the size advantage--but he's still one-dimensional--just like Dallas.

its too late to change anything--and his individual play will probably not fall off for a while....but i used to believe this and now its looking true again:

no team is going to win the championship with dirk as the best player

Captain Dumbass, are you aware that Dirk is TOP 3 IN THE NBA in 4th Quarter Scoring, and has the best +/- on any NBA player in the clutch? You know, you might want to at least have a clue what you're talking about before you press enter.

One dimensional? Right. Is that why he goes to the FT line so much?

Just please stop stealing oxygen.

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 03:32 PM

All I ask is that people at least educate themselves before they form an "opinion".

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT4.HTM

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Yep, Manu is the triple threat, can't box him in when he starts on the perimeter, you can surround Duncan on the box. Manu, will create for himself or another, he can finish, kick, or draw a foul, that's a closer.

Dirk shoots 51% in the clutch.

Manu shoots 43%.

Who's a closer?

Don't get me wrong, Manu is certainly clutch, but I hope you're not arguing that he's somehow a better closer than Dirk.

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axilla

i was going to change it to focus of the offense.

no team is going to win a championship with dirk as the focus of the offense.

obviously dirk has insane skills that could allow him to be the "best" player on any given team.

ISO dirk, and pick n pop, and the rotate around the perimeter plays exists because the mavs try to play to dirk's strengths....but they continue the main thing the mavs need to change---jumpshots.

and what top tier player is going to want to play alongside dirk in this framework? who was the last one? nash?

That's weird that no team can win with Dirk as the focus of the offense, considering the Mavs were TWO wins and one corrupt commissioner away from doing it despite ZERO All-Stars and ZERO All-NBA defenders.

So, by your "logic", that team would not have won 2 more games if they had ONE all-star teammate (let alone 2).

Weird.

Kidd Karma · 04-04-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Dirk shoots 51% in the clutch.

Manu shoots 43%.

Who's a closer?

Don't get me wrong, Manu is certainly clutch, but I hope you're not arguing that he's somehow a better closer than Dirk.

Nah, from a skill perspective. Dirk any day of the week.

dude1394 · 04-04-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Dirk shoots 51% in the clutch.

Manu shoots 43%.

Who's a closer?

Don't get me wrong, Manu is certainly clutch, but I hope you're not arguing that he's somehow a better closer than Dirk.

It's different. Dirk/duncan have to be given the ball, manu doesn't. It is one of the reasons that josh howard was hoped to be a compliment to the dirkster because you could give it to him. I'm not debating one over the other necessarily. On this team Dirk IS the closer, on the spurs Manu is.

Manu is what folks dream Roddy will be when he grows up.

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's different. Dirk/duncan have to be given the ball, manu doesn't. It is one of the reasons that josh howard was hoped to be a compliment to the dirkster because you could give it to him. I'm not debating one over the other necessarily. On this team Dirk IS the closer, on the spurs Manu is.

Manu is what folks dream Roddy will be when he grows up.

If people think Roddy will ever be Manu, they're in need of a serious reality check.

Dirk is a better closer than Manu, though. He's got him beat in just about every clutch statistic possible. Also, while Manu is certainly clutch, he's actually only hit something like 3 gamewinners ever.

MavsFTR · 04-04-2011, 05:02 PM

CadBane would rage more about people saying shit about Dirk than if they said something about his mother. Just chill out guy. You can correct and point things out to people without being a pretentious jerk.

fluid.forty.one · 04-04-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Captain Dumbass, are you aware that Dirk is TOP 3 IN THE NBA in 4th Quarter Scoring, and has the best +/- on any NBA player in the clutch? You know, you might want to at least have a clue what you're talking about before you press enter.

One dimensional? Right. Is that why he goes to the FT line so much?

Just please stop stealing oxygen.

Do you realize that crap like that makes people forget the fact that you're right and only focus on the fact that you're being very childish.

If you had just said:

Dirk is in the top 3 in the NBA in 4th quarter and has the best +/- on any NBA player in the clutch... that is definitely not our problem.

Your point would be taken a lot better. In both versions you're saying the same thing, but you'll get a lot more respect from the board members YOU respect if you go the 2nd route.

fluid.forty.one · 04-04-2011, 05:21 PM

Anyway CadBane is right. Dirk is definitely not the problem (although I'm probably more disappointed in him last night than Cad is). It sucks that he has to win in spite of horrible guard play but I feel like the ability is in there. Maybe it would have shown through if it wasn't the 4th game in 5 nights.

mavs777 · 04-04-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Anyway CadBane is right. Dirk is definitely not the problem (although I'm probably more disappointed in him last night than Cad is). It sucks that he has to win in spite of horrible guard play but I feel like the ability is in there. Maybe it would have shown through if it wasn't the 4th game in 5 nights.

TC needs to go back to what he was earlier this year, Marion and Dirk are going to be themselves.

fluid.forty.one · 04-04-2011, 05:36 PM

TC was definitely not an impact player last night, you're right about that.

FreshJive · 04-04-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

If people think Roddy will ever be Manu, they're in need of a serious reality check.

Dirk is a better closer than Manu, though. He's got him beat in just about every clutch statistic possible. Also, while Manu is certainly clutch, he's actually only hit something like 3 gamewinners ever.

Except ast/ to which is obviously what dude was referring to. Were you listening to The Dude's story?

JeffViggiano · 04-04-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

TC was definitely not an impact player last night, you're right about that.

TC is not an impact player against the best team...he was owned by lakers,blazers,grizzlies and spurs frontcourt.
he gain 12M.fuck

dude1394 · 04-04-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

You can correct and point things out to people without being a pretentious jerk.

Not so sure about that.

dude1394 · 04-04-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Anyway CadBane is right. Dirk is definitely not the problem (although I'm probably more disappointed in him last night than Cad is). It sucks that he has to win in spite of horrible guard play but I feel like the ability is in there. Maybe it would have shown through if it wasn't the 4th game in 5 nights.

Man that was really a road trip from hell. 4 in 5 and 6 in 9, all back to backs. Good grief, I'm not sure I've ever seen it before.

fluid.forty.one · 04-04-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Man that was really a road trip from hell. 4 in 5 and 6 in 9, all back to backs. Good grief, I'm not sure I've ever seen it before.

Terry said he hadn't either, but Terry says a lot of stuff.

CadBane · 04-04-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Do you realize that crap like that makes people forget the fact that you're right and only focus on the fact that you're being very childish.

If you had just said:

Dirk is in the top 3 in the NBA in 4th quarter and has the best +/- on any NBA player in the clutch... that is definitely not our problem.

Your point would be taken a lot better. In both versions you're saying the same thing, but you'll get a lot more respect from the board members YOU respect if you go the 2nd route.

Sorry bro, but I'm 100% aware that I was an asshole and I'm glad I was. If someone makes a cogent point I disagree with, that's fine, I'll respond with a polite disagreement.

HOWEVER, said poster in question made an immutably IDIOTIC post that is borderline TROLLING, so yes, I gave the troll an ear full. I'm not going to have someone piss in my ear and respond with a smile.

fluid.forty.one · 04-04-2011, 07:53 PM

Okay. I'm just telling you how it comes across.

Being mature about it may not get your point across to the troll, but why do you care so much what the "idiots" on the internet think? I'd imagine that you care more about what the respectable posters think and I'm telling you that you ruin all the great points you make by being a jerk. Posting stuff like "Just please stop stealing oxygen." and "Captain dumbass" doesn't help your point at all.