Dirk is the problem with this team. - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Silk Smoov · 12-07-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Jason Terry was "gaurding" Iverson =P

honest question:
who do you think would guard Iverson better today? Terry or Avery?

Dont forget to add Harris as well. He got torched as well. It took 2 minutes to torch Harris right to the bench, then Terry had no chance to guard him. But, we all know Terry is horrible on defense. But, everyone talked about how Harris was our PG defensive stopper, and was just playing out of position last season. I guess we see, Harris defense is not as good as some thought. Looks like he can guard Parker for the most part, but against the Elite, he is just average at best. Then once they attack him on offense, then Harris just goes out of his mind on offense.

Bathouse Bear · 12-06-2007, 11:31 PM

Nice game from Dirk.

he was agressive and reminded me of the Old Dirk.....to bad our defense reminded me of the old Mavericks.

This is the type of game we need from Dirk every night. Taking 15-20 shots a game, getting to the line, and opening things up for our other players.

dude1394 · 12-07-2007, 12:05 AM

It was a much more offensive minded dirk tonight for sure. The nuggets didn't do much to contest him however. But he shot it when he got it which was great. He got a little tired out there at the end and could have used a blow...but I liked seeing him just shoot the damn thing.

They still didn't post him up nearly enough. Avery really needs to work that. But he handled the ball a lot tonight, a few too many turnovers.

But man, our defense sucketh and then it sucketh again.

ty · 12-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

He got a little tired out there at the end and could have used a blow...but I liked seeing him just shoot the damn thing.

Yah, when you don't shoot that much every game, you get tired because your body isn't used to it. Damn you Avery!

Better game for Dirk. We keep feeding the beast like that and the beast will return:

dude1394 · 12-07-2007, 12:21 AM

Did the league change the rules about guarding people in the post. I was re-watching the first quarter and kenyon martin had both hands planted solid in dirk's back. I thought that was an automatic last year.

Locked_Up_Tonight · 12-07-2007, 12:24 AM

Everyone talks about how Howard is the defensive stopper as well. His defense blows chunks too. Don't forget to include him.

In fact, the only player who doesn't blow chunks defensively is Fazekas. And that is because he aint on the roster.

idrisguitar · 12-07-2007, 12:26 AM

its so easy to blame the star

im glad drik stepped up tonight to disprove so many ignorant fans.

dirk has a good atitude, he has a few off games, but he is usually reliable and can post scores like tonight more than any other starter. i dont think of him as a superstar that can bring down the rest of the team, i think of him as a great player simple as that, its unfair when he has a bad game to blame it all on him,

thats expecting TOO much.

were losing so much SIMPLY because we are giving the opponent way too high of a shooting percentage in the games. everytime i watch mavs opponents come forward i expect them to break the D down and get a relatively easy bucket.

but they have proven last season they can defend well and dominate games so im confident they will get out of this rutt,

eitherway, as long as they make the playoffs, id rather they have 30+ bad games as long as they step up come the playoffs, and its something i think they all have their mind on.

alby · 12-07-2007, 02:28 AM

Silk thinks JET = Devin on defense. hee hee

Dtownsfinest · 12-07-2007, 02:43 AM

I think JET's defense at this point is on par with Nash's defense when he played for the Mavs. Its sad because JET actually has length on him and still can't manage to play a lick of d.

alby · 12-07-2007, 03:08 AM

So let's say Nash = Terry on defense.

What about offensively?

dalmations202 · 12-07-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

So let's say Nash = Terry on defense.

What about offensively?

Both bite defensively.

Nash is a better assist guy, and a better floor general.
Terry will usually average more points.

Both are good consistent shooters with great range.

Both are flawed with an Avery team that expects perimeter defense, and half court offense with an inside game.

Terry would look better in a Dan-Tony offense, just like Nash does. Just give them the two, and then go score a three on the other end.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-07-2007, 10:31 AM

We're on pace to be a 48 or 49 win team. Unless Avery decides to rest all of our starters for the rest of the season to rest for a playoffs we don't make.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2007, 11:16 AM

You people that stopped talking about this yesterday or never got involved but are now running back in here saying SEE, SEE, DIRK ISN'T THE PROBLEM don't seem to understand that THIS IS NOT HOW HE WAS PLAYING... THIS IS HOW HE SHOULD PLAY.

Had he played like he did in SA we would have lost by 40.

I said defense was a huge problem for us. We all know that, but he was hurting us also. So in a game where we lose by 2 and he plays like a pussy, we lose. If he played like this in SA, we win.

It is that simple guys. I know he played GREAT tonight. He did basically exactly what I asked for from him. He grabbed the ball and SHOT. He grabbed the ball and immediately moved before a double team could reach him. He played with passion and fire. This is the Dirk we need to see every night.

It is unfortunate that it came on a night where our D played as bad as it has in the past couple of years and it didn't matter, but most nights it isn't THIS bad. We definitely can't win if our D plays like this, no matter Dirk's contributions. If we are going to give up 40 point quarters and 65 point halves we just can't win no matter who is on the team.

BUT, again, if we are going to give up 97 points to a good Spurs team and Dirk is going to put up 15 and shoot 11 times that is when our defense is not what is holding us back. Sure, the D could have played much better and we could have won with Dirk playing like that, but it shouldn't take a tremendous defensive effort each night to win with our team. We have what a lot of teams don't, a true Superstar. He needs to consistently play like one and he did last night. If our D plays half as good as they can we win that game.

I will say now after seeing that crap play out that our defense definitely is public enemy number 1 if it is going to play that terrible.

Man it was bad.

Silk Smoov · 12-07-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

You people that stopped talking about this yesterday or never got involved but are now running back in here saying SEE, SEE, DIRK ISN'T THE PROBLEM don't seem to understand that THIS IS NOT HOW HE WAS PLAYING... THIS IS HOW HE SHOULD PLAY.

Had he played like he did in SA we would have lost by 40.

I said defense was a huge problem for us. We all know that, but he was hurting us also. So in a game where we lose by 2 and he plays like a pussy, we lose. If he played like this in SA, we win.

It is that simple guys. I know he played GREAT tonight. He did basically exactly what I asked for from him. He grabbed the ball and SHOT. He grabbed the ball and immediately moved before a double team could reach him. He played with passion and fire. This is the Dirk we need to see every night.

It is unfortunate that it came on a night where our D played as bad as it has in the past couple of years and it didn't matter, but most nights it isn't THIS bad. We definitely can't win if our D plays like this, no matter Dirk's contributions. If we are going to give up 40 point quarters and 65 point halves we just can't win no matter who is on the team.

BUT, again, if we are going to give up 97 points to a good Spurs team and Dirk is going to put up 15 and shoot 11 times that is when our defense is not what is holding us back. Sure, the D could have played much better and we could have won with Dirk playing like that, but it shouldn't take a tremendous defensive effort each night to win with our team. We have what a lot of teams don't, a true Superstar. He needs to consistently play like one and he did last night. If our D plays half as good as they can we win that game.

I will say now after seeing that crap play out that our defense definitely is public enemy number 1 if it is going to play that terrible.

Man it was bad.

You know what, I am going to chalk up last nights loss due to match-up problems. We dont match-up with Denver at all. They are too long and athletic, plus have two Superstars. We dont want to face Denver in the playoffs, plain and simple. We dont want to face Denver or GS in the playoffs or we will go home. Lets just all face it. Our playoff chances are all about match-ups for the Mavs.

In a 7 game series, the current Mavs team will beat Utah, Suns, SA, Lakers,Grizzles and Rockets in the playoffs.

The Mavs would lose to GS and Denver.

Theres our 8 teams for the playoffs right there. Either Rockets or Grizzlies will make it. I am not even factoring in Hornets, because I would hate for the Mavs not to make the playoffs.

Now factor in what seed we need to make it deep in the playoffs

1. SA
2. Suns
3. Lakers
4. Utah
5. Denver
6. Mavs
7. GS
8. Rockets

There you have it. Here is the storm we will go through..

I hate to say it but there are 5 teams fighting for 6-8th seed. Mavs, GS, Rockets, Hornets, Grizzlies. Shi*, now that I look at it, the Mavs could get in the lottery. We are one more injury from being a lottery team.

jthig32 · 12-07-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

You know what, I am going to chalk up last nights loss due to match-up problems. We dont match-up with Denver at all. They are too long and athletic, plus have two Superstars. We dont want to face Denver in the playoffs, plain and simple. We dont want to face Denver or GS in the playoffs or we will go home. Lets just all face it. Our playoff chances are all about match-ups for the Mavs.

In a 7 game series, the current Mavs team will beat Utah, Suns, SA, Lakers,Grizzles and Rockets in the playoffs.

The Mavs would lose to GS and Denver.

Theres our 8 teams for the playoffs right there.

Now factor in what seed we need to make it deep in the playoffs

1. SA
2. Suns
3. Lakers
4. Utah
5. Denver
6. Mavs
7. GS
8. Rockets

There you have it. Here is the storm we will go through..

This is one of your strangest posts ever. And that's saying something.

mary · 12-07-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

I will say now after seeing that crap play out that our defense definitely is public enemy number 1 if it is going to play that terrible.

Man it was bad.

The Mavs currently rank 4th in offensive efficiency. Dirk's had a crap year so far, but the team's offense is well above-average, and has produced well enough to win games.

The Mavs are currently ranked 21st in defensive efficiency.

They rank 25th in the league in guarding 3's.

They routinely give up 30+ quarters.

The defense has been the primary problem - not just in last night's game.

Dirk hitting a game winning shot in San Antonio wouldn't have changed that one bit. We would have one more win, and one less loss - but the defense would still really suck.

If Dirk were averaging 25, 10 and 5 - we might've won a few more games. Its hard to say. Basketball is a bunch of interdependent moving parts, so its difficult to predict what the outcome would be if you change just one thing. (I'm not saying you don't know this, just pointing it out.)

But yes, in general, if your offense scores enough it can cover up the deficiencies of your team. But if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the offense is the problem, or that the offensive production of one particular player is the problem.

Male30Dan · 12-07-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

The Mavs currently rank 4th in offensive efficiency. Dirk's had a crap year so far, but the team's offense is well above-average, and has produced well enough to win games.

The Mavs are currently ranked 21st in defensive efficiency.

They rank 25th in the league in guarding 3's.

They routinely give up 30+ quarters.

The defense has been the primary problem - not just in last night's game.

Dirk hitting a game winning shot in San Antonio wouldn't have changed that one bit. We would have one more win, and one less loss - but the defense would still really suck.

If Dirk were averaging 25, 10 and 5 - we might've won a few more games. Its hard to say. Basketball is a bunch of interdependent moving parts, so its difficult to predict what the outcome would be if you change just one thing. (I'm not saying you don't know this, just pointing it out.)

But yes, in general, if your offense scores enough it can cover up the deficiencies of your team. But if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the offense is the problem, or that the offensive production of one particular player is the problem.

Well I think if you read all of my comments on this you would know I NEVER said it was THE problem. In fact I said in my rant to Flac that we all know defense is a problem for the Mavs but.........

Of course our defense has been poor, but no Mary, it has never been like last night this year. Last night was just what Dirk said it was - a layup drill. It was really, really, REALLY bad! Do you remember when Devin went out and Little B came in, (just one specific horribly stretch I remember)? Do you remember them subsequently getting 11 points in 4 trips down the court? It was just crazy how easy they could score on us last night - and while we have had our breakdowns, it was never that bad.

With that said, yeah, I think a guy averaging 25/27 and 10 like he did for much of last year WITH his incredibly efficient numbers would have meant several more wins. It just would have in my opinion. If you take a 12-8 team and make them 15-5, we aren't looking so bad anymore. We still have a problem defensively, but that can and eventually will be straightened out, which is why I haven't been THAT worried about it.

The defensive problem seems to be a lack of effort mixed with bad defensive abilities from the players mixed with players playing out of position. You can fix 2 of those and get back to where we were last year. But the Dirk thing, well, I didn't know if it could be fixed. He showed me a lot last night. A lot. BUT, he has to continue to do it. Will he, because they lost, go back into a shell for the next game? If so, there you go again. You have an 0-3 in the defensive category, (barring Avery getting his head out of his ass), AND no Dirk. That is a VERY scary combination leading to multiple losses.

dude1394 · 03-08-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

The Mavs currently rank 4th in offensive efficiency. Dirk's had a crap year so far, but the team's offense is well above-average, and has produced well enough to win games.

The Mavs are currently ranked 21st in defensive efficiency.

They rank 25th in the league in guarding 3's.

They routinely give up 30+ quarters.

The defense has been the primary problem - not just in last night's game.

Dirk hitting a game winning shot in San Antonio wouldn't have changed that one bit. We would have one more win, and one less loss - but the defense would still really suck.

If Dirk were averaging 25, 10 and 5 - we might've won a few more games. Its hard to say. Basketball is a bunch of interdependent moving parts, so its difficult to predict what the outcome would be if you change just one thing. (I'm not saying you don't know this, just pointing it out.)

But yes, in general, if your offense scores enough it can cover up the deficiencies of your team. But if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the offense is the problem, or that the offensive production of one particular player is the problem.

MARY!!!! YOU ARE A ******* GENIOUS!

Silk Smoov · 12-07-2007, 11:19 AM

I knew the Jet Vs. Harris thing would come back up when Harris fails. Jet took his lumps when he was the starting PG, but Harris lovers cant take the heat when the starting PG is not being consistent and staying on the floor.

Nothing Harris is doing has to do with Jet. Nothing at all. Everything we are seeing in Harris is EXACTLY what we saw for 4 fours here. Nothing has changed, except he is more offensive minded and is the starting PG.

Point blank:

Jet lead Mavs Team > Harris lead Mavs team

As of this point!!!!!!!!!

We need a top tier PG, because we have a perfect 6th man in Jet, but not a true starting PG which Dirk needs on the floor with him. Now go back to where I pointed out when Dirk and Harris got into it in the pre-season. I bet Dirk STILL does NOT trust Harris at the PG slot. GUARANTEE!!!!

What happened to Harris being the vocal floor leader? Harris is back to just looking crazy on the floor and not knowing what to do at the right time. His Basketball I.Q. tells him that just driving into the lane to score is the answer.

Dirk needs a calming effect on the floor to help him. Harris is NOT an calming effect. This team looked better on offense tonight when Harris went to the bench early and the Terry/Dirk thing was going on. Dirk was back to his ole self for a while. This was actually the first time this season I saw the ole Dirk and Terry free play. Dirk was on automatic and Terry knew exactly where Dirk wanted the ball. Ole times!!! Didn't last long, but it was nice to see.

mary · 12-07-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilkSmoov

1. SA
2. Suns
3. Lakers
4. Utah
5. Denver
6. Mavs
7. GS
8. Rockets

How are two Pacific teams going to be seeded 2 and 3? Is Stern going to punish the Northwest division this year?

Flacolaco · 12-07-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

How are two Pacific teams going to be seeded 2 and 3? Is Stern going to punish the Northwest division this year?

Isn't that how it works now? A non-division winning team with a better record than the worst division winner can have the 3 seed?

mary · 12-07-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Isn't that how it works now? A non-division winning team with a better record than the worst division winner can have the 3 seed?

Dammit, you right.

I hate that!

jthig32 · 12-07-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

Dammit, you right.

I hate that!

Just because it CAN happen doesn't it make it any less strange that that's how he thinks the seedings are going to shake out.

Dirkenstien · 12-07-2007, 11:52 AM

I think we may have all been overrating Harris's abilities. At this point you really have to look at what we have objectively: a young guy with whippet-like speed and too little skill or control to use that speed as an advantage. It may be time to trade him and another for that key floor general we've been lacking (Perhaps Kidd?). Dirk only has so long before his play begins to dwindle and the competition just continues to get stronger and stronger.

bcrav4 · 12-07-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I think we may have all been overrating Harris's abilities. At this point you really have to look at what we have objectively: a young guy with whippet-like speed and too little skill or control to use that speed as an advantage. It may be time to trade him and another for that key floor general we've been lacking (Perhaps Kidd?). Dirk only has so long before his play begins to dwindle and the competition just continues to get stronger and stronger.

I'm a HUGE Harris fan, but he's really starting to make me doubt him too.

idrisguitar · 12-07-2007, 02:07 PM

that mathup post maye have been a good point.

denver have two superstars and anyone who says otherwise is in denial, melo and AI are great players and we didn;t have the hieght power or defensive players in our starting line-up to have a chance.

and even if we did have the matchups a bit better our scoring would have suffered without the likes of howard and dirk and terry.

ADD in the fact it was the second game in two night and it was always gonna be a rough ride. i think the fact dirk got a good game and we scored a lot of points is a good positive to take considering the above points.

ShaggyDirk · 12-07-2007, 03:00 PM

^d-m's future

elec99 · 12-07-2007, 04:11 PM

I think this team was built and exists to play San Antonio. It is so focused on SA, it is an ever consuming almost-hatred deep inside. So much so that it loses focus that there are 28 other teams in the league that you have to play. We've lost our focus.

Last year we focused on having the best regular season record, forgetting about the stamina needed in the playoffs.

We ignored Golden State and sat our players in the last game last year, not giving them the respect you should give any opponent, knowing full well that losing to them meant playing them in the first round. We asked for them and they gave it to us.

It still shows today, when Stackhouse declared they didn't respect SA as much as other teams. You should, last I recalled we have no trophies. Stackhouse's cockiness traces back to his days in Philly where you think he'd been humbled when losing his starting position, but he has remained unchanged.

This is an endemic that starts at the top, from Cuban's cockiness to JT's stupid plane dance when he gets off. Didn't he hit someone with his fist going after a loose ball 2 playoffs ago? Yeah, classy.

These are issues fans generally ignore as long as we get the W, though I've never respected Cuban. Cuban wants to win, but not because he loves the game, only because it's a business. For him, the business just happens to be basketball. Next year it'll be baseball.

At this point, we don't need to focus on SA since we're beating ourselves.

alby · 12-07-2007, 09:13 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the mental block that Spurs players had are vanished after their victory the other night. Maybe we still do have a mental advantage against them, but, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs didn't have that anymore.

fluid.forty.one · 03-07-2008, 01:06 AM

I think we can safely say now (like we couldn't before...) that Dirk is not the problem with this team.

Starts with A and ends with "very" as well as "hole".

nashtymavsfan13 · 03-07-2008, 01:42 AM

I think this is on of my top 5 most hated threads in D-M.com history. Plus all the ones Sike posts in.

Murphy3 · 03-07-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

This team isn't built for succes with Dirk taking 12 shots a game and only scoring 15-20 points a game.

our team is made up role players and im tired of our "superstar" playing like a wuss.

right now he's the 3rd best player on this team.

AJ wanted Dirk to be like Duncan... AJ tried to change the best player's game to fit a system.. Perhaps Dirk should have easily been able to adjust, but why neuter one of the best players in the league? Didn't Don Nelson already neuter Dirk once when he made him take a back seat to Antoine Walker? Isn't it time the Mavs had a head coach that stopped tinkering with something that doesn't need to be tinkered with?

MFFL · 03-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

AJ wanted Dirk to be like Duncan... AJ tried to change the best player's game to fit a system.. Perhaps Dirk should have easily been able to adjust, but why neuter one of the best players in the league? Didn't Don Nelson already neuter Dirk once when he made him take a back seat to Antoine Walker? Isn't it time the Mavs had a head coach that stopped tinkering with something that doesn't need to be tinkered with?

You guys act like using Dirk to his optimum is easy. He is a unique player with unique skills.

Dirk NEEDS to be playing next to a dominant low post player so he doesn't have to set up his offense in a area of the court where he isn't as effective. That guy also needs to be a good post defender so Dirk can defend the weaker front court player. But those guys are impossible to acquire.

Dirk is the best player on the team but due to cultural barriers is not the leader of the team. It is RARE to find a team where the best player is not one of the leaders of the team. Those players are also frequently called soft (a label that Dirk doesn't deserve but has been called that over and over). It is also hard to find a player who can be a second banana on a team yet still be an effective leader. You get weird situations where Stackhouse is the leader.

There isn't an effective way to build around Dirk - he's just too unusual.

Bathouse Bear · 03-07-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

I think we can safely say now (like we couldn't before...) that Dirk is not the problem with this team.

Starts with A and ends with "very" as well as "hole"

Ever since I started this thread Dirk has played like a badass. it started with the game against Denver december 6 and the Mavs went on a nice run after that.

I stand by everything I say when I started this thread.

The Mavs can't win with Dirk only taking 10-12 shots a game. Dirk being agressive is the only chance this team has.

quiet riot act · 03-24-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

This team isn't built for succes with Dirk taking 12 shots a game and only scoring 15-20 points a game.

our team is made up role players and im tired of our "superstar" playing like a wuss.

right now he's the 3rd best player on this team.

how smart does this guy look now?

muzak · 03-24-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiet riot act

how smart does this guy look now?

At that certain point in time, I can't say that I didn't disagree with him. Dirk has stepped up his game of late. Though, we all knew he would.

ty · 03-24-2008, 04:14 PM

Dirk is Superman. How did he not tear anything?

monty55555 · 03-24-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

Dirk is Superman. How did he not tear anything?

I was surprised he didn't. I really didn't watch the replay of the injury (seeing it once was painful enough!) but I honestly thought he might have torn his anterior cruciate ligament or his medial collateral ligament. Thank goodness there were no ligament tear seen.

Kidd Karma · 03-24-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty55555

I was surprised he didn't. I really didn't watch the replay of the injury (seeing it once was painful enough!) but I honestly thought he might have torn his anterior cruciate ligament or his medial collateral ligament. Thank goodness there were no ligament tear seen.

Yea, that was my intial reaction ACL tear, thank goodness it wasn't. Seeing the replays and how the knee twisted, though not as ugly as Livingston, thought it was torn. I guess we're all better off that it was just a high ankle sprain. Hopefully this doesn't lead to chronic injuries that will require surgery. I remember 2 playoffs ago, Richard Jefferson suffered a similar injury, and since it was the playoffs, he continued to play, but never put up the same numbers and was limping throughout the Miami series. He came back presumably at full strength in 06-07, but by January he opted to have ankle surgery and was out for 6 weeks...hopefully Dirk is 100% before coming back.

monty55555 · 03-24-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Yea, that was my intial reaction ACL tear, thank goodness it wasn't. Seeing the replays and how the knee twisted, though not as ugly as Livingston, thought it was torn. I guess we're all better off that it was just a high ankle sprain. Hopefully this doesn't lead to chronic injuries that will require surgery. I remember 2 playoffs ago, Richard Jefferson suffered a similar injury, and since it was the playoffs, he continued to play, but never put up the same numbers and was limping throughout the Miami series. He came back presumably at full strength in 06-07, but by January he opted to have ankle surgery and was out for 6 weeks...hopefully Dirk is 100% before coming back.

Yes I recall that so well. RJ was not even 50% of his normal healthy self.

Although I hope that Dirk comes back soon, I also hope he will take the careful and thorough road to recovery. Lingering injuries as a result of hastened recovery is not something he would like to have in his career. Most people here have said that Dirk recovers well and faster than most. I really hope thats the case here.