Josh for Marion talks on the table? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 01-18-2009, 05:46 PM

If they offer you Marion for Howard, you say yes while trying to keep a straight face.

tybrock · 01-18-2009, 05:48 PM

I think Redd for Josh and Stack is a no brainer. Wonder if we could pull off Villanueva if we threw in Bass.

dude1394 · 01-18-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He'd certainly have better options to kick it out to when he passes, like Dirk and Jet.

Dang you LDub...fractions of a second quicker!

Is he a driver and finisher? I'll have to get on youtube and look at some of his clips. I've just always pictured him as a ray allen type...a shooter (and a damn good one) but not a guy who was going to break down a defense and kick it out for another shooter.

LonghornDub · 01-18-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Is he a driver and finisher? I'll have to get on youtube and look at some of his clips. I've just always pictured him as a ray allen type...a shooter (and a damn good one) but not a guy who was going to break down a defense and kick it out for another shooter.

His FT attempts are down this year, but the last 2 seasons he averaged 8 FT's a game. A lot of those were on drives.

To put that number in perspective, Ginobili, obviously a well known driver and finisher, averaged 6 FT's a game 2 seasons ago.

darkwitzki · 01-18-2009, 05:53 PM

Kidd and Marion running could be a deadly combo as well as get those alley oop dunk plays, but is Marion a slasher type of player? Let's try to talk the Clippers out of giving Kaman first before doing this deal, patience is a virtue

tybrock · 01-18-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

Kidd and Marion running could be a deadly combo as well as get those alley oop dunk plays, but is Marion a slasher type of player? Let's try to talk the Clippers out of giving Kaman first before doing this deal, patience is a virtue

I like Kaman as much as the next guy, but I think these guys are on to something with Redd. I think if there is any possibility of getting him without giving up dirk/jet/kidd that should be a priority.

BGMaverick9 · 01-18-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

His FT attempts are down this year, but the last 2 seasons he averaged 8 FT's a game. A lot of those were on drives.

To put that number in perspective, Ginobili, obviously a well known driver and finisher, averaged 6 FT's a game 2 seasons ago.

Even more perspective, FTA average this year:
Dirk - 6.4
Howard - 4.0
Jet - 3.4

5.1 or better is a welcomed addition to the roster.

dude1394 · 01-18-2009, 06:03 PM

Someone at db.com threw this one out.

Quote:

Please tell me one thing. ARE YOU ALL BLIND OR WHAT ?

G MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 23 32.5 161-359 .448 27-76 .355 68-92 .739 1.3 3.7 5.0 .74 .57 1.74 2.43 1.8 18.1

2008-09 Statistics FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
G MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 35 36.8 184-384 .479 7-36 .194 56-73 .767 2.7 6.5 9.2 1.40 1.03 1.37 2.23 1.9 12.3

Marion has

-more steals
-more rebounds
-more offensive rebounds
-a better FG%
-more blocks
-less turnovers
-more assists

...and if you give Marion 359 field goal attempts in 23 games, he will have more points, too....

It is not even close.

grndmstr_c · 01-18-2009, 06:39 PM

Going off of knickerblogger's stats, Josh has been far more productive scoring the ball (about 60% more points per minute), and regardless of that arcane fg% metric, he's been slightly more efficient according to ts% (52.2 vs. 51.8) owing to Marion's putrid three point shooting. Josh also has been getting to the line more (per field goal attempt) than Marion.

I've got no problems with the rest of the stats from whoever that db.com poster was, though.

If I knew the Mavs were getting the Marion of 3+ years ago and stood a good chance of resigning him to a reasonable contract in the offseason I'd be all for it. I'm just very doubtful that'd be the case.

particleman · 01-18-2009, 07:05 PM

Is there any reason to think the Bucks would actually want to trade Redd for Howard? I mean I know this is the team that traded Mo Williams for Luke Ridnour (one of the worst trades ever IMO), but don't they already have a logjam at SF?

jthig32 · 01-18-2009, 07:38 PM

As _c has already pointed out, that poster at DB.com is underating how much better a scorer of the basketball Josh is this season. They are not in the same ballpark at generating offense, period.

mac222b · 01-18-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You just said one yourself...that's evidence enough.

Kaman, Redd, a specific package from Chicago, Mike Miller, and probably Gerald Wallace.

I think those are better options.

I think all of these are better options.I'm not sure about M.Miller anymore unless we get more in return. He's looking like a 6th man these days and we already have a great one. I still think one move doesn't put us over. It's about what we decide to do with Kidd, our 1st,our exceptions. Marion would make us better but not sure he's the solution esp. since we might have to give up Stack too. If we could get back say Redd, Wallace, Watson for Kidd, Stack, J-Ho and our 1st and add a good player w/ the mid-level we could compete for the next 2 or 3 yrs. during Dirk's prime. I think we need to focus on turning our remaining assets into 1 offensively exceptional player(Redd,VC)1 really good rebound,defense,hustle guy(Wallace,Marion)and 2or3 who bring stability,good all around game, depth(Watson,A.Parker,Joe Smith,Raja Bell, Barnes). We don't need to rebuild or clear cap space. That's fool's gold. Take advantage of the current market and win now(meaning next year).

mac222b · 01-18-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

Is there any reason to think the Bucks would actually want to trade Redd for Howard? I mean I know this is the team that traded Mo Williams for Luke Ridnour (one of the worst trades ever IMO), but don't they already have a logjam at SF?

No, but i still think they might do it for Kidd and our 1st rd. pick. Probably would want more for Redd though. Usually the equation includes another good young player to go with the pick and expiring. We don't have a good young player to include. Maybe a 3rd team w/ Stack invovlved. We maybe could swap Howard for Jefferson. If the Bucks or Bobcats miss the playoffs i could see them dumping salary. Maybe even before the deadline. We can take advantage of new coaches/gm's wanting to put their stamp on their teams and small market owners wanting to shed salary.

BGMaverick9 · 01-18-2009, 08:53 PM

I think it would take more than just Stack and Josh for them to get interested in dealing Redd. Probably Bass + something else.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 01-18-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Heat's Marion out due to groin injury

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Shawn Marion was held out of the Miami Heat lineup Sunday night against Oklahoma City because of a strained left groin.

Marion, who was hurt in Miami's loss at Houston on Saturday, was replaced in the lineup by Yakhouba Diawara.

It's the fifth game Marion has missed this season, and his third with the groin injury. He also missed two games in November with a similar injury.

The four-time All-Star is Miami's third-leading scorer with a 12.3-point average

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/01/18/m....ap/index.html

Is this a fake injury?? Meaning trade?

darkwitzki · 01-18-2009, 09:30 PM

There is also news circulating about JHo for J'Oneal, i must say, i like this trade better than JHo for Matrix..

got this from http://insidehoops.com/

BGMaverick9 · 01-18-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

There is also news circulating about JHo for J'Oneal, i must say, i like this trade better than JHo for Matrix..

where is that?

MaVs 41 BaLler · 01-18-2009, 09:38 PM

It's magically circulating in people's minds I suppose.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 01-18-2009, 10:14 PM

Three team trade sounds nice where we get O'Neal and Felton.

LonghornDub · 01-18-2009, 11:44 PM

Man, if we could get JON and the guy could actually stay healthy for more than 10 games at a time (unlikely), that would be sick.

BGMaverick9 · 01-19-2009, 02:09 AM

Basically I'd want Jermaine healthy THIS year, and whatever we can get next year...then let that money roll off.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think it would take more than just Stack and Josh for them to get interested in dealing Redd. Probably Bass + something else.

I meant we trade Stack to a 3rd team(like OKC or Charlotte)who then sends Mil. another player they want. Seemed more in line w/ what they'd want: huge expiring, 1st rounder, decent youngish player. Still probably not enough to get Redd. I know it's unlikely but maybe if they really want to dump salary and say to themselves good as he is we can't win with the guy anyway... you never know. I just have a feeling the Bucks are getting rid of a big contract(not Bogut's)and maybe we have the best deal for them.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 02:56 AM

If we did trade for Marion we could try and resign him if it's a good fit. Or we could do a sign and trade. Since most teams don't have cap room to pay him what he wants it could be advantageous for us either way. Either we get him at a discount or we get something good in return. He could also walk and we wind up with nothing-which is the obvious downside.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 05:46 AM

Slightly off topic but J-Ho/Stack for G.Wallace/Felton/Nazr works. Felton and Kidd could play together some or we could see if Kidd can fetch us a 2 guard or low post presence. Either way it upgrades our roster. But Cuban has to be willing to spend. Nazr is essentially Diop redux.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 01-19-2009, 06:00 AM

^ That trade seems to favor us quite a bit doesnt it though? Not sure the 'cats do it.

Usually Lurkin · 01-19-2009, 09:10 AM

don't we have a separate section for trade speculation?

Robillion · 01-19-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Slightly off topic but J-Ho/Stack for G.Wallace/Felton/Nazr works. Felton and Kidd could play together some or we could see if Kidd can fetch us a 2 guard or low post presence. Either way it upgrades our roster. But Cuban has to be willing to spend. Nazr is essentially Diop redux.

I would do that in a heartbeat, but the Cats wouldnt. .. or would they? heh
Wallace is actually the best option in my mind in return for Howard. Exactly what we need in a SF. and as much as people would loove Kaman here (myself included really). Damp is a quality starting C. We need a quality starting swingman that can take it to the rim and play good defense. That we do not have.

MavericksFan5912 · 01-19-2009, 09:58 AM

We need MORE pure scorers, not less... I don't think we'll see this trade happen (hopefully)

Robillion · 01-19-2009, 10:07 AM

Just because people are probably in this thread the most right now.....

Why isnt there a GDT!! I would do it, but ooohh noes it might not be my turn and I wouldnt wouldnt to hex my not-so-much-beloved Mavs as-of-late.

SMC0007 · 01-19-2009, 10:50 AM

F Marion. That deal does nothing more for us.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

don't we have a separate section for trade speculation?

Um...yer in it.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 04:34 PM

Getting any of the players we've mentioned probably makes us better. The problem w/ Marion is we give up two of our assets if we have to include Stack and this team needs depth and assets. We need a 2 for 1 trade in which we get back 2 useable or tradeable players, unless we get a star in return.

mac222b · 01-19-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

^ That trade seems to favor us quite a bit doesnt it though? Not sure the 'cats do it.

They get out from 2 large contracts and maybe don't plan on resigning Felton anyway. But you're right it seems they'd want a little more. Maybe we revive the OKC talks and Charlotte gets Watson. But taking Nazr off their books would be huge- 20 mil over the next 3yrs.

Danny Boi · 01-20-2009, 05:30 PM

Does anybody know what happpenned to that Howard foe Bargnani rumor? If this is true then the Mavericks need to pounce on this trade because Bargnani is starting to play better and his #'s could get better if Oneal is traded cause then he'll be starting, and if he shows Toronto something they might not be willing to trade him anymore. We've basically seen what we have in Howard. He is a guy that will give you around 18 pts and 7rbs a game or so, completely disappears in the 2nd half of games and is injury prone. In Bargnani ther's a guy who has alot of upside and he's a versatile seven footer and probably has more of an inside game than anyone on our team, which is not much. Not to mention it wil leven give us some cap relief. If the Mavs can pull off this trade and get Felton then I would be pretty satisfied.
REALISTIC posible lineups
Kidd/Felton/Barea/Terry
Wright/Terry/Carrol/Green
Bargnani/George/Green/Williams
Nowitzki/Bargnani/Bass
Damp/Bargnani/Hollins
This looks like a waaaaayyy better lineup than the one we have right now!!!!

Kidd Karma · 01-20-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Boi

Does anybody know what happpenned to that Howard foe Bargnani rumor? If this is true then the Mavericks need to pounce on this trade because Bargnani is starting to play better and his #'s could get better if Oneal is traded cause then he'll be starting, and if he shows Toronto something they might not be willing to trade him anymore. We've basically seen what we have in Howard. He is a guy that will give you around 18 pts and 7rbs a game or so, completely disappears in the 2nd half of games and is injury prone. In Bargnani ther's a guy who has alot of upside and he's a versatile seven footer and probably has more of an inside game than anyone on our team, which is not much. Not to mention it wil leven give us some cap relief. If the Mavs can pull off this trade and get Felton then I would be pretty satisfied.
REALISTIC posible lineups
Kidd/Felton/Barea/Terry
Wright/Terry/Carrol/Green
Bargnani/George/Green/Williams
Nowitzki/Bargnani/Bass
Damp/Bargnani/Hollins
This looks like a waaaaayyy better lineup than the one we have right now!!!!

Colangelo said no way, when that rumor first floated. And the way Bargnani has been playing the last month or so with O'Neal out.......forget it. He's putting up Dirk type figures. With his late play, O'Neal becomes the expendable trade chip for the small forward...Marion, Howard....

twosauce · 01-21-2009, 12:50 AM

I would consider it due to to the fact that marion can be a pest on defense. he's on the wrong side of 30, but i think he still is a valuable player.

mac222b · 01-21-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twosauce

I would consider it due to to the fact that marion can be a pest on defense. he's on the wrong side of 30, but i think he still is a valuable player.

He is more valuable than he's shown in Miami, for sure. He would instantly improve our defense and boards. It would just leave us short another scorer and nothing left to trade, unless we can get it done w/ out Stack. If we can then by all means do it. Then trade Stack for a 2 that can shoot the 3 and/or drive.

mac222b · 01-21-2009, 01:28 AM

J-Ho, George, Wright for Marion works. So does J-Ho/Stack for Marion/Cook. Not sure Miami does either trade. I think they like Cook and we don't really need what he brings. He does shoot the 3 well though(42%) and he's only 21. He's like a bigger, younger Terry. Or Deshawn Stevenson is more like it. Ok i guess we could use him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-21-2009, 05:49 AM

From the Miami Herald...

Nothin new but the rumor seems to continue.

Quote:

As the Miami Heat continues to consider a deal for Jermaine O'Neal, Miami has been giving thought to other Shawn Marion trade scenarios, including one involving Dallas small forward Josh Howard, according to an official involved in the Marion discussions. Several teams have inquired about Marion, who's unlikely to re-sign here, but it's not certain a deal will happen.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/ba...ry/864389.html

dude1394 · 01-21-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

J-Ho, George, Wright for Marion works. So does J-Ho/Stack for Marion/Cook. Not sure Miami does either trade. I think they like Cook and we don't really need what he brings. He does shoot the 3 well though(42%) and he's only 21. He's like a bigger, younger Terry. Or Deshawn Stevenson is more like it. Ok i guess we could use him.

Hmmm...it looks like (without seeing him play defense) that cook would immediately take our starting 2 spot. I might do that trade to get him with shawn.