Shane Battier - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 11:25 AM

Personally, I think this whole Brian Grant thing is a smokescreen set up to deter Miami from making other deals, such as Jones to Minneosta. I doubt Riley wants to get rid of BOTH Jones and Grant just to free cap room. I think he still wants to keep talent while working out minor adjustments to free a little cap room.

Although I am a huge Brian Grant fan, I was a fan of the Brian Grant of three to five years ago. The current Brian Grant is very injury prone. He may help us this year, but there's no telling when he'll go down with a career ending injury in the next couple years. Sure that's true of any player, but I think Grant is an even bigger risk, particularly because of his injury history, the rough way he plays the game, and also that risk is not worth $55 million.

Actually, if you look at the playoffs last year, most of the layups given up by the Mavs was probably 50% interior defense and 50% PERIMETER defense. I really doubt there's anyone out there that would significantly help our interior defense, particularly with the little trade bait we have. I think the key for us at this point is to get a defensive small forward who would solidify our perimeter defense a la Doug Christie or a Bruce Bowen while also providing good offense which would force Nelson to play NVE less at shooting guard. Just this alone would improve our defense immensely IMO.

In scouring through the NBA rosters, I came up with just one player that might be available and fits the mold for us. And that's Shane Battier. I've mentioned him before, but I'm mentioning him again because the trade deadline is near. The guy shoots nearly 40% from the 3pt line (a Nellie player), can play both the 2 or the 3, is tall at 6-8, can rebound, is an intelligent player, and most importantly, he's a great man-to-man defensive player. Hubie typically plays Battier against the Kobes. And with the recent trade of Mike Miller, who plays the same position as Battier, I think this makes Battier more available. I doubt we can do a straight trade with Memphis. We may need to get another team involved. But I like the idea of Battier on our team at small forward and guarding the Kobes, Pejas, and Sczerbiaks during the playoffs.

LRB · 02-20-2003, 11:37 AM

Battier is intriguing, but any ideas on what we ould have to give up to get him?

MavsFan1980 · 02-20-2003, 11:40 AM

no offense, but Battier is worthless. He can NOT play the 3 at the NBA level. he was a nice 4 in college, but he has ZERO game to play the 3. the games that I have seen the Grizz this year, he just looks lost. maybe he'll develop, but he just does not have the quickness or footwork to guard most 3 players in the league. Seems like a nice kid, but has looked horrible from what I have seen. just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 11:47 AM

In the 3-4 games I've seen Battier play and in several articles I've read, Battier appeared to be a great spot up shooter and quick enough to guard any 2 or 3 in the league, using his height, long arms, and speed.

Maybe I'm wrong. I think my main point is that our perimeter defense is just as bad as our interior defense. I think guys like Bell help us, but since Nelson doesn't appear too confident in him, maybe we should make a trade for a small forward that's good both offensively and defensively and keeps Nellie from playing too much small ball.

I'm just using Shane Battier as an example. Perhaps there's some other SF out there that could help us but that I have missed.

LRB, I did work out a trade that could net us Battier and Dickerson for Bradley and Avery Johnson, using RealGM. Although I like Bradley, Nelson doesn't appear to be very confident in him, so why not trade him. Memphis might do this, since they get Dickerson's contract off their books and get a legit center in return. Just a thought.

ariosto · 02-20-2003, 11:49 AM

I think Shane Battier is exactly what we need: a defensive-minded small forward who can shoot. I've been a fan of his for a long time. He's no star but I think he would fit in well here.

However, he cannot guard Kobe. Kobe scored his career high 56 points against him last year. I would think he can guard Peja.

aexchange · 02-20-2003, 11:51 AM

<< no offense, but Battier is worthless. He can NOT play the 3 at the NBA level. he was a nice 4 in college, but he has ZERO game to play the 3. the games that I have seen the Grizz this year, he just looks lost. maybe he'll develop, but he just does not have the quickness or footwork to guard most 3 players in the league. Seems like a nice kid, but has looked horrible from what I have seen. just my opinion, feel free to disagree. >>

i will disagree with you.

battier NEVER played the 4 in college. this is completely absurd. hes a fantastic defender at the NBA level at the 3 spot, and a superb defender at the 2 spot. i think he'd make a great starter for the mavs as the starting small forward, someone who can get you a few steals and blocks as well as hit the mid range open jumper.

i could see cuban making a move for dickerson and battier or battier and wright by packaging some contracts that are ending soon, throwing in some cash, and a couple number 1 picks.

battier is great, and just what we need.

EXCELLENT idea CB.

MavsFan1980 · 02-20-2003, 12:00 PM

<< [i]

<< superb defender at the 2 spot >>

Really? are we talking about the guy that plays for Memphis? Can he guard someone like Finley, Kobe, TMac or Pierce off the dribble? I don't see it.

What position DID he play at Duke?

foglemann · 02-20-2003, 12:04 PM

If Battier comes to the Mavs I would be pissed, I have seen him play LIVE in Memphis twice and he sucks all he does is shoot the three, doesn't contribute on defense as much as you think. If we get any Duke player, I will shoot myself.

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 12:18 PM

I'm not pointing fingers at dallas-mavs.com here, but just in general, many posters from all the Mavs message boards think we should only make a trade if we can only bring in some potential superstar or some difference maker. I think this is completely the wrong way in developing a championship. We already HAVE our superstars. We don't need any more egos. I honestly believe that the only real difference maker for our team is Dirk. I think Fin's game has plateaued a bit and so has Nash. I think this team goes as far as Dirk takes us. But in order to cultivate that, we can't be playing small ball which I believe deemphasizes Dirk's role on the team. We need to surround him with a good mix of supporting players that complement Dirk's game. I think Nash, Fin, and Raef provide enough offense. We just need to add a couple more ROLE players that will provide defense and rebounding and can hit the open jump shots that Dirk creates for them by commanding double teams. Sacramento took a step to the next level when they added Christie, an underrated player who wasn't considered a star or a difference maker. I think Battier is that kind of underrated, complementary team player without the ego. He could also help us shorten our rotation during the playoffs by playing the 2 when Fin goes out of the game.

Anyways, I think this team gets to the championship level once Dirk learns how to make the players around him better and his teammates learn how to play with Dirk. They need to make more dive cuts to the basket and move around to places where Dirk can get them the ball for open shots. I think the Bulls finally started winning championships once Jordan learned how to use his teammates better.

TheKid · 02-20-2003, 12:22 PM

My personal opinion, if Wahad gets time, I think he's just as good or better than Battier.. I think we have the SAME player on our bench so I wouldn't trade Rigs for him and you know how I feel about Rigs.

LRB · 02-20-2003, 12:25 PM

Nice post CB. It's unlikely that we will get a superstar in a trade, but we difinitely could use to upgrade our bench with better role players. Especially those that can play both sides of the ball.

I'm not a fan of giving up Bradley though to get battier. How about Avery and Esh or NVE and Esh?

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 12:25 PM

wahad is one of the worst shooters I have ever seen

aexchange · 02-20-2003, 12:26 PM

<< Really? are we talking about the guy that plays for Memphis? Can he guard someone like Finley, Kobe, TMac or Pierce off the dribble? I don't see it.

What position DID he play at Duke? >>

a lot of ppl can guard finley.

i dont think there are many swingmen in the league who can guard kobe, tmac, or pierce effectively.

battier played 2/3 at duke.

i think he is a great player and i would be happy as hell to see him in a mavs uniform.

TheKid · 02-20-2003, 01:51 PM

I'll ask this question, how many shooters do we need??? I would assume if we got Battier it wouldn't be for his shooting it would be for his size and defense. Well Wahad is a decent defender when given time. The Mavs wouldn't need ANYONE from that spot to score more than 8 points a game..

aexchange · 02-20-2003, 01:54 PM

<< I'll ask this question, how many shooters do we need??? I would assume if we got Battier it wouldn't be for his shooting it would be for his size and defense. Well Wahad is a decent defender when given time. The Mavs wouldn't need ANYONE from that spot to score more than 8 points a game.. >>

wahad has bad knees. how good of a defender can you be with 2 bad knees?

and i think almost everyone would rather have a battier on the offensive end then TAW.

don't get me wrong, i dont think battier is all world offensively, but he can make an open jumper.

ariosto · 02-20-2003, 01:58 PM

We don't need more shooters, but we need a guy who can hit an open shot to prevent double teams on Dirk or Fin. TAW is an awful shooter and the guy has yet to play one single game for the Mavericks. He's worse than nothing right now.

LRB · 02-20-2003, 01:59 PM

<< I'll ask this question, how many shooters do we need??? >>

Kid it's not shooters that we need, but players who can play both sides of the ball. We have shooters and offensive players. And we have defensive specailists. What we don't have is many players who are good defenders and offensive threats. That's what we need.

Charlie Brown · 02-20-2003, 02:00 PM

perhaps i should end all my posts with "assuming Nelson stays with his current game plan"

because do you really think a guy like Nelson will allow Wahad to play significant minutes. sure, Wahad can maybe develop into a good defensive player for us, but his offensive deficiencies will force Nelson to play NVE more instead of a guy like Wahad. Wahad's just going to run into the same problems as Raja Bell is having.

madape · 02-20-2003, 02:06 PM

Abdul Wahad doesn't deserve to be in the NBA. He is very, very bad. If the NBA allowed non-guaranteed contracts TAW would have been back in France years ago, probably struggling to make a semi-pro squad. Any talk of how he needs to get more playing time instantly ruins the speakers credibility in my eyes.

Nash13 · 02-20-2003, 03:04 PM

I believed he is being held back in Memphis. Last yr, he average 14.3ppg. That's 2nd upon rookies. He would do good for a good team.

He and Dunleavy should switch places

Stressboy · 02-20-2003, 04:25 PM

I think we messed up by not trying to get Donnell Marshall. He is a rebounding 3/4 that has some offensive game and can cause some havoc on the defensive end with with long arms. That mistake was played out last summer.

LRB · 02-20-2003, 04:27 PM

I believe that we screwed up drafting Detlef Schremp over Karl Malone.

TheKid · 02-20-2003, 04:42 PM

Well I'm not saying the guy can be or would be all world, I just think he would give the Mavericks the same thing Battier would give. That's just my opinion. Yes Battier is younger with more upside more than likely, but how much would he be able to grow here being AT BEST a fourth option. If he came here and he was on the floor when Nellie goes to his famous small ball, guess who would be a fifth option who would end up being overmatched on the defensive end. Granted so would TAW so I just say why trade for someone to be put into that situation.

MavsFan1980 · 02-20-2003, 04:46 PM

<< I believe that we screwed up drafting Detlef Schremp over Karl Malone. >>

i wish i could count how many times i have said this over the last 17 years....but, hey, at least we got Uwe Blab out of it!!

Nash13 · 02-20-2003, 05:05 PM

<< I believe that we screwed up drafting Detlef Schremp over Karl Malone. >>

Malone would have eventually got traded. If Jason Kidd and Jamaal Mashburn get traded from dallas, Malone wouldn't have had a chance.

foglemann · 02-20-2003, 05:32 PM

we could trade all we want for all the players everyone and their dogs know WE need, but Nellie will never, ever play them. He only watches the games on one side of the ball, which is offense. The biggest problem is that he won't give PT to any of our defensive players on the perimeter. That is our problem, not someone to lock up the middle, if we don't let the guards get layups all day, we would be fine, but Finley and Nash can't guard anyone in high school. Maybe not Nash, but certainly Finley and don't let me forget NVE. Perimeter defense is what we need, but its all about coaching.

When we resign Nellie to coach some more, then I will make hell about what we are trying to accomplish, but we have to sleep in the bed we make, so its all about waiting.