Nellie's now free to create, not compensate

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar

You obviously watched 0 games the first 2 years Bradley was in a green uniform, and the cornerstone of our franchise.

You have obviously drawn an incorrect conclusion.

I'm just happy the Mavs are finally playing a center. I have seen Nelson coach enough to know that Damp would be in the doghouse nestled safely next to Bradley if Cuban hadn't had a big talk with the genius and explained how the Mavs were going to play.

[basketball jonessss]

What do these critics think, that Nelson would rather be creative and lose than conventional and win? That he would ignore every competitive bone in his body and abandon a traditional rotation and approach that works because he's bored?

I think this pretty much sums up the proven facts. Damp is here because of Cuban, period.

[TheBenger]

Don Nelson hand picked the guy that recommended we sign Dampier. For someone that you say hates playing conventionally he sure seems to be using Erick Dampier effectively. You act as if Don Nelson was the only one with concerns about Dampier's work ethic, nothing could be further from the truth.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: TheBenger
Don Nelson hand picked the guy that recommended we sign Dampier. For someone that you say hates playing conventionally he sure seems to be using Erick Dampier effectively.

That quote about playing conventionally was from the newspaper.

Like I said, if not for Cuban, Damp wouldn't even be here. If not for Cuban if Damp was here he would not be getting any minutes expept due to injuries. The fact that a center plays effectively only proves what I have been saying for years. Hell just "play" a center, any decent center can produce and be effective if you just put them in. Running around with 3 guards and 2 forwards just leaves your team at a total disadvantage.

[basketball jonessss]

You act as if Don Nelson was the only one with concerns about Dampier's work ethic, nothing could be further from the truth.

I certainly don't fault Nelson for having concerns about Damps work ethic. That should be a concern. I saying he would not get any playing time with Nelson. Cuban is making him play a center.

Look what happened in New York. Nellie did the exact thing to Pat Ewing. He put him in the high post and cut his minutes. That's what got him fired in New York. It is Nelson coaching pattern.

I say Just play a center, either Damp, or Bradley or any center is better than leaving your team with no defense and rebounding.

[V]

Originally posted by: basketball jonessss

That quote about playing conventionally was from the newspaper.

... Running around with 3 guards and 2 forwards just leaves your team at a total disadvantage....

You just described Detroit's starting lineup.

[TheBenger]

I say Just play a center, either Damp, or Bradley or any center is better than leaving your team with no defense and rebounding.

It is easy to say that when you don't have to coach the team though. When Nellie uses his tricks at least he has the possiblity of his players over acheiving as they did in 2002-2003. Maybe the things he does don't really make that big of a difference, but it has to fight apathy, to feel as if you are trying something different, you are still fighting. If you just commit to playing Bradley or some other stiff you are just resigned to your fate. Take the Hack-a-Bowen strategy in game one of the WCF, on paper that really didn't do much... but psychologically it changed that entire game. I don't see how you can be so quick to dismiss the tactics of such a great coach with such an incredible record and experience. IMO the problem is that people are just afraid of what they don't understand.

[basketball jonessss]

When Nellie uses his tricks at least he has the possiblity of his players over acheiving as they did in 2002-2003.

That team had the firepower to go all the way. Like I said before, that team was 28-5 and would have finished with the number 1 defense by far until Nellie got his small ball team healthy. He was forced to go big and the Mavs were kicking ass. Then he goes small and we scrape by. Had NVE not gone unconcious we would have quickly been eliminated. When your shooting goes cold, say goodby.

[basketball jonessss]

I don't see how you can be so quick to dismiss the tactics of such a great coach with such an incredible record and experience

Here, right out of the paper, read it clearly

What do these critics think, that Nelson would rather be creative and lose than conventional and win? That he would ignore every competitive bone in his body and abandon a traditional rotation and approach that works because he's bored?

I like Nelson, he is a great player evaluator. He wins because he can find talent. Take Josh Howard drafted late in the first round and Daniels who was undrafted. Cuban did exactly what I said he should do. Go get a center and make Nelson play him.

[basketball jonessss]

IMO the problem is that people are just afraid of what they don't understand.

lLOL, I fully understand.

Here right out of the paper again.

Nelson inverted the offense in the past and posted everyone from Greg Buckner to Steve Nash, because the Mavericks didn't have a low-post presence. Now, he has more options.

Not having a low-presence is how Nelson builds a team, period. When he had Pat Ewing did he post him. Hell No.


Lets sum it up like this. Nelson goes small because that is his strategy, to reinvent the game. He goes small because he want Dirk to be covered by a big man. In the mean time, we are getting killed at the shooting guard, small forward and power forward positions because we are small. That means NO DEFENSE AND NO REBOUNDING.

Nelson doesn't want Dirk covered by a small forward. That is the matchup that I want. Post Dirk on the small forward and wear him out.

Look what happened in the last preseason game. The Mavs went big because of injuries and kicked the Kings ass.

Play defense, rebound and get Dirk over 20 shots and this team wins, period.

[dude1394]

Watching bradley versus dampier the last few nights made me realise that maybe I had a higher opinion of shawn. He just can't keep his position in the paint. When he gets it down there he can't keep his position or even just go up and shoot it. It's dipsy-doodle and throw up some junk.

He does block shots but watching people come in the the lane and BOUNCE off damp versus bradley sprawling all over the place is telling.

Now all that said, nellie has been an idiot for not playing him as he was the best thing they had at center without throwing dirk down there. Lafrenz is the best center we've had in hear in 5 years easy. Dampier will make a huge difference in the middle.

[TheBenger]

Look what happened in the last preseason game. The Mavs went big because of injuries and kicked the Kings ass.

In the 2002-2003 playoffs against Portland Nellie super-sized his lineup for that entire series. In the Sacramento series Nellie tried to play Shawn and Raef and the Kings blew us out of the water. So Nellie went ultra small and we dumped 83 points on the Kings in one half. In the San Antonio series Robinson, Duncan and Rose just pulverised Raef and Bradley. Most of what we accomplished thoughout that 2002-2003 playoff series was with Raef or Dirk at center. What that means is that we went to game 6 of the WCF playing small ball. Replace Shawn Bradley or Raef with Ben Wallace in that 02-03 lineup and we win the Championship. And it is still small ball.

[basketball jonessss]

In the 2002-2003 playoffs against Portland Nellie super-sized his lineup for that entire series

I remember playing small and getting absolutely killed on the boards. The refs were letting Portland foul the crap out of us with no calls. There was no supersized lineup that I recall. Nash, Nick, and Finley at the 1,2 and 3. Dirk was playing center as usual. Are you calling the Wizard supersized.

[Misfit Mav]

Originally posted by: basketball jonessss

I remember playing small and getting absolutely killed on the boards. The refs were letting Portland foul the crap out of us with no calls. There was no supersized lineup that I recall. Nash, Nick, and Finley at the 1,2 and 3. Dirk was playing center as usual. Are you calling the Wizard supersized.

In the Portland series the starting line-up was Nash-Finely-Dirk-Raef-Bradley: it was big ball. We won the first 3 games, but lost the next three when Mo Cheeks countered the lineup with a Stoudemire-Wells-Sheed-Randolf-Davis big ball lineup of his own.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

In the Portland series the starting line-up was Nash-Finely-Dirk-Raef-Bradley: it was big ball. We won the first 3 games, but lost the next three when Mo Cheeks countered the lineup with a Stoudemire-Wells-Sheed-Randolf-Davis big ball lineup of his own.

I tried to pull the box scores of that series and they are gone. I was hoping to see how many minutes our bigs played. I remember winning the first 3 and then lossing three. I think the final game NVE stepped up for the first time, and then continued to be unconcious in the Kings series. I would like to see the box scores if you know where I could find them.

[EricaLubarsky]

box scores are still available on Patricia's site

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: V

Perhaps a categorical syllogism will help you understand:

Nelson plays Bradley for carefully identified spot minutes.

Bradley's plus/minus stats are good.

You're full of .... Before last season, Bradley was playing more than 20 minutes a game for most of his career.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: TheBenger

In the 2002-2003 playoffs against Portland Nellie super-sized his lineup for that entire series. In the Sacramento series Nellie tried to play Shawn and Raef and the Kings blew us out of the water. So Nellie went ultra small and we dumped 83 points on the Kings in one half. In the San Antonio series Robinson, Duncan and Rose just pulverised Raef and Bradley. Most of what we accomplished thoughout that 2002-2003 playoff series was with Raef or Dirk at center. What that means is that we went to game 6 of the WCF playing small ball. Replace Shawn Bradley or Raef with Ben Wallace in that 02-03 lineup and we win the Championship. And it is still small ball.

After reviewing the Portland box scores, I agree with you it was good coaching. I want to play big at the 3,4and 5 and use small ball for a surprise and for comebacks when we are being out played.

I still don't know why Nelson played no center in the Kings series this year. Look back to the regular season when Bradely came in and turned the game around. Then he never plays in the series.

You cannot win by playing small constantly. Sooner or later the shots stop falling.

[jayC]

Nelson hatters. Bradley wasn't ever a starting center in this league. I would much rather play walker, jamison, nick the quick over the brittle shawn bradley. Bradley does have his moments but not for an extended amount of time. That being said there are no more excuses this team has depth, it has tremendous athletic ability and it can shut teams down in the paint.

As for the crap about Fortson, you know better basketball jones, the dude can't play. As for plus/minus statistics this isn't hockey. I can't really justify playing Bradley a top 150 player vs. Walker a top 40 player. As far as unconventional goes I am sure we will still se stretches of small ball, but only as a change of pace not to win ball games. He turned this franchise into a winner and I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Sure if we don't win next year a change is needed, but let's wait till next year.