Do you let Ellis walk in the Summer?

[Twenty4sevenn]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Ellis should have taken games off after his hip injury. The team seems to have been drowned in nagging injuries this season.

He's selfish. It's in his DNA. He's worried about proving how tough he is instead of doing what helps the team. If he had sat out when he was injured, he'd be fresh right now.

Same thing with late game shooting. Instead of realizing that he isn't gonna get it done and deferring to his teammates, he'll continue missing shots to prove that he can work his way through it.

It isn't about the team, it's about Monta Ellis.

[spreedom]

TBH Ellis right now is pretty much pre-Mavs Ellis. Maybe he is still hurting, but isn't it worth considering that the honeymoon might just be over with him?

[Bryan_Wilson]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ave-to-move-on

A few spots of note:

The Mavs continue to express confidence in Ellis as their closer -- and he does still lead the NBA in clutch points this season with 118, per NBA.com’s definition of the final five minutes of regulation or overtime with the score within five points -- but he’s been bad for almost two months now. Ellis is shooting 38.5 percent from the floor since Feb. 1.

Not coincidentally, the Mavs have been mediocre during that span with a 12-10 record.

Regardless of whether anyone will admit it on the record, Ellis is a big part of that problem. Folks in the Mavs organization have been fretting for weeks about the impact Ellis’ moodiness has on the team’s soul.

That contract was a bargain for the Mavs for Ellis’ first season and a half in Dallas. As recently as the All-Star break, it’d have been an easy decision for Dallas to re-sign Ellis with a handsome raise. Owner Mark Cuban would have gladly coughed up as much as the Mavs are allowed to give Ellis while owning only his early Bird rights.

That would mean Ellis would be paid $47 million over the first three years of his new deal -- which, of course, is $1 million more than what Chandler Parsons is making. And you better believe that matters to Ellis.

But Ellis’ value is dipping by the day. If you’re going to be high maintenance like Ellis is, you’d better be worth the headaches. Ellis sure as heck hasn’t been for the last couple of months.

[Bryan_Wilson]

So he drains our soul, wants all the money, and performs awful in his nightly duties and doesn't talk about the issues.

<insert ex wife jokes here>

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Be curious to know what value Ellis has around the league. I mean, I guess the good news that he might opt in if he keeps playing like crap?

But let's face it, there really is no good news if the team just craps out in the first round. And Ellis isn't the only one playing poorly. The team just isn't meshing.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ave-to-move-on

A few spots of note:

That right there says all I need to know. Things definitely are not harmonious in the locker room.

[Kante]

He's back at just taking jumpshots. So, for me it looks like his injury is still bothering him = Rick should sit him.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Kante

He's back at just taking jumpshots. So, for me it looks like his injury is still bothering him = Rick should sit him.

I think Rick would if Monta would let him.

[FreshJive]

If he's going to cry about Parson's contract, then get him out of here. The Mavs were the only reason he's not playing for MLE type money right now. Teams were competing for Parson's services. Monta not so much.

I think the not sitting out games thing may also be tied to his contract aspirations. He probably sees his games played streak as a selling point. I could see it on his face in the Denver game that the fourth quarter benching was going to be a problem.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, this thread might be a conversation worth reexamining...

And I still say anyone who gives him 15 mil a year should be fired on the spot

[mavsfan1000]

Who is more overrated? Rondo or Ellis? Anyways, not happy how this team is playing lately.

[dongtouch]

If you can only keep one (cost-wise, chemistry-wise), who would you keep?
Ellis at (11-12m per year) - a dynamic scorer capable of scoring 30 any given night, but when he's off, he doesn't contribute much else; sometimes a liability on defense
Rondo at (10-11m per year) - a triple double threat every night, but can't shoot; defensively adaquate but not great; may clog the offense spacing due to his inability to shoot

This combo reminded me of JET and Kidd, except neither can shoot like them, and Ellis has a much higher usage rate and would probably not be willing to come off the bench.

More recently I prefer Rondo more. I've seen him shoot the lights out in a shooting contest with Durant, not that it means anything now because he's shooting so poorly even from the free throw line, but he can impact the game in more ways. Ellis is too inconsistent as the leading scorer of a contender. I could be wrong but Parsons can take up some of the shots if Ellis departs and overtake as the leading scorer. As for his replacement, I agree with most to replace Ellis with a 3 and D guy. This is a different team now and Dirk is not the same but during the championship year, they became a better team when Stevenson started playing more. Now with a scorer like Parsons instead of a defender like Marion, there has to be more defense in the perimeter.

I'm still a fan of Ellis for his fearlessness and aggressiveness. If it weren't for Rondo, it would make sense to keep him and acquire a defensive minded, hopefully a bigger point guard, unless Ellis can somehow alter his game and become a point guard again.

[dongtouch]

Every contender has a wing who is a great defender or two good defenders, along with a big who can protect the paint. Tyson Chandler fulfills the paint protector but I don't think either Ellis or Parsons qualifies as a good defender.

Klay Thompson/ Harrison Barnes (two good defenders)+ Andrew Bogut
Tony Allen/ Jeff Green (one great and one good defender) + Marc Gasol
James Harden/ Trevor Ariza (one great defender) + Dwight Howard
Wesley Matthews / Nicolas Batum (two great defenders) + Robin Lopez
Danny Green / Kawhai Lenoard (two great defenders) + Tim Duncan
JJ Reddick / Matt Barnes (one great defender, soft of) + DeAndre Jordan
Andre Roberson / Kevin Durant (two good defenders) + Serge Ibaka

Kyle Korver / DeMarre Carroll (one great defender) + Al Horford
J.R. Smith / Lebron James (one great defender) + Timofy Mozgov
Jimmy Butler / Mike Dunleavy (one great defender) + Joakim Noah
Sorry don't think the Raptors or the Wizards are contenders.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think Rick would if Monta would let him.

Rick is the coach.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by Kante

Rick is the coach who has to keep morale up to keep this team from spiraling out of control

Fixed that for ya.

I hate that it may have come to that, but you play the cards you are dealt.

[bunkmoreland]

Freshjive, I am with you.

If we are really in a situation where Rick can't do his job because of Monta being a baby, I will be praying that Monta opts out this year, allowing us to be rid of him.

[rimrocker]

I think we should let Monta walk and sign Rondo to a reasonable deal if things don't change drastically in the next few months. Rondo will be easier to trade if things don't work out.

We just need to find a SG who can shoot 3s and is a decent defender.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I think we should let Monta walk and sign Rondo to a reasonable deal if things don't change drastically in the next few months. Rondo will be easier to trade if things don't work out.

We just need to find a SG who can shoot 3s and is a decent defender.

"Just"

Still waiting for names that are available.

[EricaLubarsky]

A couple of average/bad games and one awful game and people are now saying that he'd be addition by subtraction even if we got nothing in return. Hm.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Kante

Still waiting for names that are available.

Yeah, nobody...

If Ellis isn't a good fit here, then you sign-and-trade him, or sign him and trade him next season before the deadline... But what you DON'T do is let him walk for nothing when you don't have any cap space to sign a replacement.

[rimrocker]

The problem with the S&T Ellis idea is that I'm not sure his value is anything more than what he will make next season if he doesn't opt out.
Who would want him at more than $10mil on a long term deal?

Best case for Mavs is for him to opt in and hopefully it will work next season. If not he is a nice tradable asset.

I personally think the FO will resign everyone they can because their options will be few.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

A couple of average/bad games and one awful game and people are now saying that he'd be addition by subtraction even if we got nothing in return. Hm.

The point of letting him walk is a last resort if we can't S&T him or if Rondo refuses to sign because of him.
My point is if it comes down to either Rondo or Ellis walking it should be Ellis imo. Rondo will be easier to trade than Ellis would be with a bloated contract.

[Twenty4sevenn]

Don't know where to put this, but MacMahon just put an article about who should close games. Carlisle came out and said that he called 4 plays for Parson in crunch time last game. And some of those plays ended with Monta Ellis shots. This has me even more disgusted with Monta's performance last game.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn

Don't know where to put this, but MacMahon just put an article about who should close games. Carlisle came out and said that he called 4 plays for Parson in crunch time last game. And some of those plays ended with Monta Ellis shots. This has me even more disgusted with Monta's performance last game.

Post it here next time.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1377757

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

The point of letting him walk is a last resort if we can't S&T him or if Rondo refuses to sign because of him.
My point is if it comes down to either Rondo or Ellis walking it should be Ellis imo. Rondo will be easier to trade than Ellis would be with a bloated contract.

If you let one walk it almost makes no sense to sign the other cap wise. Unless you think we can replace Ellis (or Rondo for that group of people) and basically an entire bench with 6-8m cap space and exceptions+minimums.

6-8m is just a rough guess, but it's probably being optimistic, after having TC and one of Rondo/Ellis resign and losing Aminu(as I'd be shocked if he opted in) and all non guarantees(practically the entire bench minus Harris) and having Felton opt in(as like aminu, but flipped, I'd be shocked if he did not opt in).

I still think best option is to resign the starting lineup, even if it means an overpay, and whatever pieces we can off the bench. Make small adjustments where possible but ultimately bring what we can back and hope for chemistry with an off season. The only other option I see is not resigning any of TC, Ellis, Rondo and having a very awkward convo with Dirk about rebuilding even after he took a team friendly deal to make one last push.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

No. I don't let Ellis walk.

[Dnowit41]

Statement game

[sefant77]

this thread

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by sefant77

this thread

Couldn't have said it better myself. Players are going to slump and have bad stretches. Don't we want Ellis to have his now and not during the playoffs?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

This is encouraging and somewhat revealing (although anyone with a brain should have known it was because of injuries)...

"I've been battling injuries all season," Ellis said on TNT. "The last few days, my body has been feeling good and tonight I'll sleep real good. I went and worked out last night for at least two and a half hours. I wanted to come in tonight and give my team a lift that they have been looking for.

"Now that my body is feeling good, we'll try to make a run of it until the playoffs start."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-next-question

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

This is encouraging and somewhat revealing (although anyone with a brain should have known it was because of injuries)...

"I've been battling injuries all season," Ellis said on TNT. "The last few days, my body has been feeling good and tonight I'll sleep real good. I went and worked out last night for at least two and a half hours. I wanted to come in tonight and give my team a lift that they have been looking for.

"Now that my body is feeling good, we'll try to make a run of it until the playoffs start."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-next-question

That doesn't explain the Phoenix game where Parsons was waiting for Monta to stop jacking bricks.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

That doesn't explain the Phoenix game where Parsons was waiting for Monta to stop jacking bricks.

I guess the remaining games will tell whether that was an anomaly or not.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

If you let one walk it almost makes no sense to sign the other cap wise. Unless you think we can replace Ellis (or Rondo for that group of people) and basically an entire bench with 6-8m cap space and exceptions+minimums.

6-8m is just a rough guess, but it's probably being optimistic, after having TC and one of Rondo/Ellis resign and losing Aminu(as I'd be shocked if he opted in) and all non guarantees(practically the entire bench minus Harris) and having Felton opt in(as like aminu, but flipped, I'd be shocked if he did not opt in).

I still think best option is to resign the starting lineup, even if it means an overpay, and whatever pieces we can off the bench. Make small adjustments where possible but ultimately bring what we can back and hope for chemistry with an off season. The only other option I see is not resigning any of TC, Ellis, Rondo and having a very awkward convo with Dirk about rebuilding even after he took a team friendly deal to make one last push.

I completely agree with you but I'm not sure Rondo will be on board with that idea. I personally think Rondo will wait to see if we resign Ellis and will make his decision based on that.
Although Ellis had a hell of a game last night I still don't think we are a legit contender with him as our catalyst.

Just think we would be a better TEAM with Rondo if it comes down to one or the other.

[LonghornDub]

I think the question of letting Monta go is still very much alive. A (really) good game doesn't change the broader question. His consistency and temperament remain big issues.

Thiggy on Twitter brought up my dream scenario: let Monta go and sign a (likely still-injured) Wes Matthews to pair with a re-upped Rondo in the backcourt. Very unlikely to happen, though.

*edit* To be clear, I'm not saying they necessarily should let him walk. But if you're all "Monta sucks" after his bad stretches and then "Monta is so awesome" after his good stretches, you're doing it wrong.

[tsar]

I would rather keep Rondo if it comes down to between him and Ellis. If you look at Rondo when he's on the floor he's been very involved with teammates, talking, huddling, pointing to spots. I feel that if he has a full training camp it will yield huge results next year. I feel like consistency with Rondo is achievable but with Ellis it's a roller coaster ride and hard to achieve a team chemistry equilibrium.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by tsar

I would rather keep Rondo if it comes down to between him and Ellis. If you look at Rondo when he's on the floor he's been very involved with teammates, talking, huddling, pointing to spots. I feel that if he has a full training camp it will yield huge results next year. I feel like consistency with Rondo is achievable but with Ellis it's a roller coaster ride and hard to achieve a team chemistry equilibrium.

I agree...it seems that every time Ellis has a great game the others have to compromise their games. When he's on everything appears fine, when he's not the chemistry issues surface.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tsar

I would rather keep Rondo if it comes down to between him and Ellis. If you look at Rondo when he's on the floor he's been very involved with teammates, talking, huddling, pointing to spots. I feel that if he has a full training camp it will yield huge results next year. I feel like consistency with Rondo is achievable but with Ellis it's a roller coaster ride and hard to achieve a team chemistry equilibrium.

Great point. It really is going to be interesting to see who comes back next season. I REALLLLLLY hope Aminu/Amare comes back. Please be more money.

[LonghornDub]

I think fewer and fewer folks would disagree at this point that keeping Rondo is more important than keeping Ellis (assuming the Mavs could only keep one). Among the more intelligent Mavs fans I know--including members of this forum--it's pretty much a consensus.

Now, maybe there's a solid argument to the contrary, but that definitely appears to be the way sentiment is trending.

[Windmill360]

Bring the whole team back!

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think the question of letting Monta go is still very much alive. A (really) good game doesn't change the broader question. His consistency and temperament remain big issues.

Thiggy on Twitter brought up my dream scenario: let Monta go and sign a (likely still-injured) Wes Matthews to pair with a re-upped Rondo in the backcourt. Very unlikely to happen, though.

*edit* To be clear, I'm not saying they necessarily should let him walk. But if you're all "Monta sucks" after his bad stretches and then "Monta is so awesome" after his good stretches, you're doing it wrong.

I've been on the Wes Matthews wagon for a while. I also like Green just not as much as Matthews. I really think that if they are paired with Rondo Parsons and Dirk it would fit well. Some question whether we will have enough driving ability with Monta gone and it's a valid concern but Parsons, Rondo, JJ and Harris all have the ability to get in the paint to provide some optimism. And I won't even go into about how much of a better defender and rebounder those two are to ellis as it's pretty obvious.

The only 2 issues I have with letting Ellis go are- Who will step up and be a guy who can consistently get a score when you need it and he likely will have to create his own shot. Teams are just bullying Dirk at the end of games and are not allowing him to establish himself in the post. He's being pushed so far off his spots that even when he can establish himself it's further out than is ideal and the shot's are more difficult. Teams are then sending a defender as soon as he makes the first dribble making him pass and forcing someone else to make the shot. The other is obviously the cap. I think Matthews and Green will be valued in a rather lack luster free agency(Green less so but may want to stay in spurs system) and with a cap increase around the corner I think they will get deals better than Dallas could offer which is primarily why most, myself included, consider "Plan A" to be retaining both. I think unless TC took a pay cut and Rondo getting a reasonable amount and not the 10-14m that keeps floating around it's unrealistic.

I also am 100% with you that the knee jerk is pretty strong with Ellis(rondo and parsons too for that matter) and if you disliked his 39% shooting for 2 months you can't simply say all is cured after 1 good game. Even the point of injuries aside when he was healthy at the start of the year he was still attacking the rim less than he did last year and he is pulling up much more this year than he did last year his shots were just falling. In the playoffs for a 7 game series teams will live with Ellis having a hot game shooting jumpers because it's incredibly inconsistent and to date has shown nothing to indicate it could be sustained for a playoff series.