2017 NBA Draft - Page 10 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bryan_Wilson · 03-05-2017, 06:37 AM

Signing a fa pg if no pg is available at our pick may not exactly be easy.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...th-George-Hill

Hill turned down what is basically 3yr/88m.

Quote:

Hill was advised he can get a much better deal on the open market than he could at this time with an extension.

Thebo · 03-05-2017, 08:23 AM

The case with Hill should be contract that lasts longer, rather than per year money. It is crazy to think that he would be earning in the range of CP3.

I believe that he made the wrong choice. Yes, he may end up with 4-year slightly bigger contract (around 10 mil bigger in total), but the contract after that would be much smaller than he would get at 34 years old.

His advisors also seem to have no idea about this years draft. There will be 5 point guards coming out that will get starting job. That means 5 less teams having a demand for George Hill. The idea was good since free agency and NBA has been lacking at PG position, but you have to keep upcoming draft in mind.

At the moment you have Bulls, Pistons, Knicks, 76ers, Nets, Kings, Mavs, Wolves, Nuggets, Magic, Bucks without quality PG. You could add Spurs and Rockets there. But you still have to remove 5 teams. I guess that leaves still 5-8 teams bidding for him, without trying to check everyone's cap and draft prospects right now. Nor how realistic options they would be, Hill will not be able to use any offer from Nets as a leverage because he will be laughed in the face.

Underdog · 03-05-2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

The case with Hill should be contract that lasts longer, rather than per year money. It is crazy to think that he would be earning in the range of CP3.

I believe that he made the wrong choice. Yes, he may end up with 4-year slightly bigger contract (around 10 mil bigger in total), but the contract after that would be much smaller than he would get at 34 years old.

His advisors also seem to have no idea about this years draft. There will be 5 point guards coming out that will get starting job. That means 5 less teams having a demand for George Hill. The idea was good since free agency and NBA has been lacking at PG position, but you have to keep upcoming draft in mind.

At the moment you have Bulls, Pistons, Knicks, 76ers, Nets, Kings, Mavs, Wolves, Nuggets, Magic, Bucks without quality PG. You could add Spurs and Rockets there. But you still have to remove 5 teams. I guess that leaves still 5-8 teams bidding for him, without trying to check everyone's cap and draft prospects right now. Nor how realistic options they would be, Hill will not be able to use any offer from Nets as a leverage because he will be laughed in the face.

If we're talking $30m per year for Hill, and a $103m salary cap, you can remove the Spurs, Rockets, Pistons, and Magic from the list because they're already pushing up against next year's cap... And the Bulls, Knicks, Kings, Wolves, Nuggets, and Bucks would each have to shed upwards toward $10m in salary to afford him, but it's doable... Which leaves the 76ers, Nets, Bucks, and Mavs as the only teams that can sign him outright with their available cap space.

But the Kings, 76ers, Mavs, Wolves, Knicks, Bucks and Magic could all picking high enough to get a rookie PG, with most mocks predicting at least 3 of these teams landing one... It's almost a sure thing that the Kings and 76ers take one of those guys, with the Knicks and Mavs also projected to take one if they're still on the board. And the Lakers and Suns are projected to take one as well, which means Russell or Bledsoe could be on the move, and may eliminate a couple more teams from this list.

And of course you have to consider other free agents, like Noel for the Mavs... If we max him out at $20m, then we'd have to move Powell and convince Dirk to take damn-near minimum to squeeze Hill onto our roster. It's doable, but not likely. I'm sure more than a few teams have higher FA priorities than Hill.

Oh, and CP3 could opt out of his contract, knocking Hill down the pecking order this summer.

So, yeah, I agree that Hill probably has less leverage than he thinks. The free agent class is kinda weak, but the draft class is full of guys who could be as good as, if not better, than Hill -- and they're all going to be a lot cheaper.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-05-2017, 12:20 PM

I don't think he'd use Nets as leverage, Hill is 30 and has made like 30m his whole career combined. He'd prolly be willing to be on the nets in exchange for his one chance at a big contract. Because I don't think at 33/34 he'd get the same opportunity personally.

rimrocker · 03-05-2017, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we're talking $30m per year for Hill, and a $103m salary cap, you can remove the Spurs, Rockets, Pistons, and Magic from the list because they're already pushing up against next year's cap... And the Bulls, Knicks, Kings, Wolves, Nuggets, and Bucks would each have to shed upwards toward $10m in salary to afford him, but it's doable... Which leaves the 76ers, Nets, Bucks, and Mavs as the only teams that can sign him outright with their available cap space.

But the Kings, 76ers, Mavs, Wolves, Knicks, Bucks and Magic could all picking high enough to get a rookie PG, with most mocks predicting at least 3 of these teams landing one... It's almost a sure thing that the Kings and 76ers take one of those guys, with the Knicks and Mavs also projected to take one if they're still on the board. And the Lakers and Suns are projected to take one as well, which means Russell or Bledsoe could be on the move, and may eliminate a couple more teams from this list.

And of course you have to consider other free agents, like Noel for the Mavs... If we max him out at $20m, then we'd have to move Powell and convince Dirk to take damn-near minimum to squeeze Hill onto our roster. It's doable, but not likely. I'm sure more than a few teams have higher FA priorities than Hill.

Oh, and CP3 could opt out of his contract, knocking Hill down the pecking order this summer.

So, yeah, I agree that Hill probably has less leverage than he thinks. The free agent class is kinda weak, but the draft class is full of guys who could be as good as, if not better, than Hill -- and they're all going to be a lot cheaper.

I was actually thinking about this yesterday....if the Suns pick someone like Ball and Bledsoe becomes available I'm wondering if we should consider trading Powell and our pick for Bledsoe.

Would Bledsoe be worth it and would the Suns even make that trade with us?

Thebo · 03-05-2017, 12:34 PM

Pelicans are missing from that list. I thought Jrue Holiday was locked for few more seasons. It will be interesting if they are going after Hill or Holiday is going to work out for them with Davis/DMC.

I hope Mavs are not too much into Hill. I think 3-year deal is fine, 4 years is too much. I would rather see Holiday playing for Mavs and Hill joining Pelicans. I like Hill, but age... I like Holiday, but injuries... It would not surprise me if Pelicans tried to move Asik/Solomon Hill and then sign George Hill to have him with Holiday.

I can not say for others, but I am rooting for Pelicans to make Davis/DMC work. It would be interesting to see them competing during small ball era.

I wonder if Mavs even tried to dump Powell to 76ers. I think Sixers would have taken him. Mavs probably did not want to make front court too thin.

This draft day may be really interesting with teams trying to move up and dump salary. Hopefully more interesting than last trade deadlines have been in the league.

When it comes to Dirk re-signing... I think he is fine taking as little as needed. Remember, he got this season more than he wanted. He is also all in for competing.

My question though. Noel is restricted and has Dan Fegan as an agent. As far as I can understand, Noel has to accept offer for the time to start ticking. What about a scenario where Fegan and Mavs reach an agreement of max offer but Noel will decline other team's offers until Mavs have signed suitable free agent, so they can go over the cap with Noel? In theory it should be possible.

Barnes waited until things were clear with GSW and Durant. There could be a chance Noel would do the same if Mavs have an agreement for max contract.

Underdog · 03-05-2017, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I don't think he'd use Nets as leverage, Hill is 30 and has made like 30m his whole career combined. He'd prolly be willing to be on the nets in exchange for his one chance at a big contract. Because I don't think at 33/34 he'd get the same opportunity personally.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he turned down the 3 year deal because he knows this is his one & only payday... Of all the teams Tebo listed, the Nets have the worst pick and the most cap space, so they seem like a natural fit at the top of Hill's list.

Dude is looking to get paid, and I can't blame him... I just don't want my Mavs to be the team that ponies up.

Underdog · 03-05-2017, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I was actually thinking about this yesterday....if the Suns pick someone like Ball and Bledsoe becomes available I'm wondering if we should consider trading Powell and our pick for Bledsoe.

Would Bledsoe be worth it and would the Suns even make that trade with us?

I think our 1st rounder gets it done, and I wouldn't hesitate to make that trade if all the top tier players are gone when we pick... If they'd take Powell off our hands, then all the better. Bledsoe only has 2 years left on his deal after this season, but $15m is ridiculously reasonable for him under a $103m cap.

As for the Suns, they get their PG of the future, and can probably grab a damn good big man with our pick... Not to mention Powell (if they take him), who can fill out their frontcourt, as well as help keep their payroll above the threshold, since they're gonna have to toss money at SOMEONE if they have a bunch of rooks on their roster.

Not sure if anyone else would be offering them a 1st for Bledsoe, could be the best deal they get.

sefant77 · 03-05-2017, 01:15 PM

Holiday really sucks at running a proper P&R

Hill is 30 and if he isnt going for max money, i can easily see him going back to the Spurs as longterm Parker replacement. Either Gasol not picking up his PO or they are dumping Green somewhere and they have the cap. I think Pop would like a Hill-Leonard-LMA trio

Teague is the PG to go after. Awesome in the PnR, good defender, never injuried and "just" 28.

Underdog · 03-05-2017, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Pelicans are missing from that list. I thought Jrue Holiday was locked for few more seasons. It will be interesting if they are going after Hill or Holiday is going to work out for them with Davis/DMC.

I hope Mavs are not too much into Hill. I think 3-year deal is fine, 4 years is too much. I would rather see Holiday playing for Mavs and Hill joining Pelicans. I like Hill, but age... I like Holiday, but injuries... It would not surprise me if Pelicans tried to move Asik/Solomon Hill and then sign George Hill to have him with Holiday.

I don't really like Hill or Holiday for the Mavs... But as far as the Pelicans are concerned, Holiday doesn't seem to fit, but Hill could make sense... Although I think there's a strong possibility that CP3 opts out and goes back to NO. Obviously the Clippers aren't going to get over the hump, and Brow/Boogie is a much more enticing duo than Blake/DJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

My question though. Noel is restricted and has Dan Fegan as an agent. As far as I can understand, Noel has to accept offer for the time to start ticking. What about a scenario where Fegan and Mavs reach an agreement of max offer but Noel will decline other team's offers until Mavs have signed suitable free agent, so they can go over the cap with Noel? In theory it should be possible.

Barnes waited until things were clear with GSW and Durant. There could be a chance Noel would do the same if Mavs have an agreement for max contract.

I believe we can skip the whole RFA process if we simply extend him instead of exercising his option, but I'm not sure if we can go over the cap to do that. I actually have no idea what our options are there, but I'm confident that we can get something worked out to lock him up longterm in whatever way benefits the Mavs the most... Because Dan Fegan friggin' owes us after botching the Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan signings. If he messes up with Noel, then Fegan won't be able to show his face in Dallas without getting his teeth punched down his throat -- three strikes, bitch.

sefant77 · 03-05-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Although I think there's a strong possibility that CP3 opts out and goes back to NO. Obviously the Clippers aren't going to get over the hump, and Brow/Boogie is a much more enticing duo than Blake/DJ.

Rumors are Paul/Griffin/Redick all have a verbal agreement to return to the Clips.

Dont think they pull a DeAndra.

rimrocker · 03-05-2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think our 1st rounder gets it done, and I wouldn't hesitate to make that trade if all the top tier players are gone when we pick... If they'd take Powell off our hands, then all the better. Bledsoe only has 2 years left on his deal after this season, but $15m is ridiculously reasonable for him under a $103m cap.

As for the Suns, they get their PG of the future, and can probably grab a damn good big man with our pick... Not to mention Powell (if they take him), who can fill out their frontcourt, as well as help keep their payroll above the threshold, since they're gonna have to toss money at SOMEONE if they have a bunch of rooks on their roster.

Not sure if anyone else would be offering them a 1st for Bledsoe, could be the best deal they get.

It seems everyone would benefit from that trade. There isn't much else we would need other than some internal growth and I think we are serious contenders for the 5-6 positions in the POs next year with a nice young core going forward.
Bledsoe/Curry/Matthews/Barnes/Noel/Yogi/DFS/Brussino as a future core with Dirk/JJ/Devin/Mejri as vets for the short-term gives Mavs' fans a somewhat bright future both short-term and long-term.

Thebo · 03-05-2017, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Rumors are Paul/Griffin/Redick all have a verbal agreement to return to the Clips.

Dont think they pull a DeAndra.

There is still time. If they were confident, they would publicly announce it. First round exit in the playoffs and/or humiliation could change their minds. I see CP3 as most likely to bounce in that case.

As things are, I have had no reason to doubt that Clippers stay as they are. This does not mean that CP3 will not be entertaining other teams, much like Conley did. Gives time for Mavs to go after players like Teague.

rimrocker · 03-06-2017, 10:42 PM

Not exactly a draft question but what do you guys think of Ben McLemore as a possible player to fit our system?
Haven't followed Kings much lately but I know he was considered a bust at one time and seems to be a guy who could use a change of scenery and some guidance by a vet like Wes.

Possibly a cheap young guy that might still have some upside and live up to his potential in the right system.

Underdog · 03-06-2017, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Not exactly a draft question but what do you guys think of Ben McLemore as a possible player to fit our system?
Haven't followed Kings much lately but I know he was considered a bust at one time and seems to be a guy who could use a change of scenery and some guidance by a vet like Wes.

Possibly a cheap young guy that might still have some upside and live up to his potential in the right system.

You might want to ask a Kings board because I think this is pretty much going to be the case for all of us around here... I only watched one of our two games against the Kings, and all I can remember is that he had as many fouls as he did points (5) in about 27 minutes. Kinda rare for a guard to do that.

rimrocker · 03-06-2017, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You might want to ask a Kings board because I think this is pretty much going to be the case for all of us around here... I only watched one of our two games against the Kings, and all I can remember is that he had as many fouls as he did points (5) in about 27 minutes. Kinda rare for a guard to do that.

I don't think he has the highest BBIQ in the world but he did have a nice stroke and played really good D in college with good athleticism and size for a SG.
Many compared his game to Ray Allen but obviously he is never going to be that good.

However I do think there is something that could be salvaged. Not a hundred percent sure he will be available next year....think there is a qualifying offer for around $5mil next season but not exactly sure how that works.

Budapest Maverick · 03-13-2017, 05:41 PM

The way I see it, it would be very important to pick around 7-8. At that position, we would still likely have 2-3 very good, high upside options to choose from. At 10-11, these options will most likely be gone. We would probably still be able to pick a player that could be a good rotational piece, but not the high upside guy that we could pick earlier. Nkilitina or Fox would be amazing. I think both has an extremely high upside.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-15-2017, 04:04 PM

Ha, NBAdraft.net has Dennis Smith falling to us at 9. The crack heads are loose again.

EricaLubarsky · 03-15-2017, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Ha, NBAdraft.net has Dennis Smith falling to us at 9. The crack heads are loose again.

Considering how he kinda flamed out at the end of the season, I think it's plausible that he does fall to us. His team was only 15-17 and was eliminated in the first round in a blowout

ACC first round tournament (lost by 14)
7pts, 8reb, 3ast, 4TO on 25% shooting (0-4 from three)

Then again, Fultz missed the end of the season, Ball (and his dad) is a lunatic, Ntilinka looks good but only playing 16mpg, and Fox can't hit a jumper to save his life despite being on one of the best teams in the nation. Lots of talent, but also lots of question marks on the guards.

tap2390 · 03-15-2017, 05:41 PM

I'm hoping the Mavs draft DeAaron Fox, Robert Williams or Malik Monk if Fultz is out of the equation. Smith has questions about his leg and whether his athleticism will translate to the NBA with a less than ideal frame. Ball shoots weird and his dad will cause more trouble than Ball is worth. Fox, Williams, and Monk all have well defined skill sets with elite athletic traits. Fox can immediately step in at the 1 and should be target #1. Monk is an elite (albeit streaky scorer) who is a Jamal Crawford starter kit. Williams has the athleticism that teams crave from their 5s without sacrificing strength or rebounding.

hayth.james.g · 03-17-2017, 06:57 AM

Markkanen is going to be very good if put in the right organization. Very impressed by his feel for the game.

J Isaac I do feel will need to add some weight. He was getting pushed around all game yesterday. He walked away with double digit rebounds, but there were numerous times where he was moved out of position. His one elite skill that stood out was athleticism. For a guy as long as him, his hand eye coordination is impressive. He has quick hands, strong passing, and quick putbacks. I would be happy getting him at 8-10, but I see someone reaching for that wingspan.

sefant77 · 03-17-2017, 08:26 AM

We arent going to draft higher than #9

tankathon.com is perfect for tracking the draftposition. Top-8 are gone...

http://www.tankathon.com/

saclare · 03-17-2017, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Markkanen is going to be very good if put in the right organization. Very impressed by his feel for the game.

J Isaac I do feel will need to add some weight. He was getting pushed around all game yesterday. He walked away with double digit rebounds, but there were numerous times where he was moved out of position. His one elite skill that stood out was athleticism. For a guy as long as him, his hand eye coordination is impressive. He has quick hands, strong passing, and quick putbacks. I would be happy getting him at 8-10, but I see someone reaching for that wingspan.

He looked really good yesterday.

I know positions matter more in the NBA draft, but I hope we choose best available player. Of course, if it is close in regards to two players, but one is a position of need, then you lean towards that player. But I would not mind Markkanen, even if we have Barnes/Dirk.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-19-2017, 05:27 PM

Josh Jackson threatened to beat women player

Quote:

One day before top-seeded Kansas opens NCAA tournament play, court officials released an affidavit that says freshman star Josh Jackson threatened to "beat" a women's basketball player during a confrontation in December.

Should maybe move this to Cowboys draft thread....

yahyes · 03-19-2017, 05:58 PM

Wow Jackson should lose his top 10 status if true.

Underdog · 03-19-2017, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Josh Jackson threatened to beat women player

Should maybe move this to Cowboys draft thread....

LOL, when I saw the headline I immediately wondered if Jerry had anything to do with this story coming out... The timing is certainly suspicious.

BPo001 · 03-20-2017, 11:56 AM

Good article by Bill Simmons.
https://theringer.com/most-important...1dc#.t7q3lo998

MavzMan · 03-20-2017, 01:59 PM

Took 37 SIM LOTTERY clicks for Mav to get in the top 3 on Tankathon.

So you're saying there's a chance.

EricaLubarsky · 03-20-2017, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Was told by someone who evaluates NBA talent for a living that the NBA draft is essentially 9 deep. Mavs NEED to pick in those first 9 picks

@benrogers

If true, then you know that some of the guys scouts think are locks will fail and some of the guys not on the radar will surprise.

Still, maybe 7 of 9 of the top guys will be NBA talent. Maybe 4-6 of the remaining 51. I don't like those odds if we end up 10-11

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-20-2017, 11:24 PM

Did the simulator like 20 times, and it was 10 every time except one.

tap2390 · 03-21-2017, 08:14 AM

Great write up on the points: http://www.nba.com/da-big-board-point-guards-2017-draft

EricaLubarsky · 03-21-2017, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Did the simulator like 20 times, and it was 10 every time except one.

Seems accurate based on the odds

4% of a top 3 pick
87% chance of a 10th pick
1% chance of an 11th pick

tap2390 · 03-21-2017, 10:26 AM

Seriously screw the playoffs. It'll never happen but we should shut down Dirk and Wes and go 0-13 this final stretch. Unfortunately we're only 2.5 games out so it looks like we're going for it.

Melonhead · 03-21-2017, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Seriously screw the playoffs. It'll never happen but we should shut down Dirk and Wes and go 0-13 this final stretch. Unfortunately we're only 2.5 games out so it looks like we're going for it.

After this 4 game stretch, itll be much clearer to the players. The percentages are there. Mavs are a 1% chance and Blazers/Nuggets have a much easier schedule

Melonhead · 03-21-2017, 12:35 PM

For where the Mavs are likely drafting, I believe its either Frank or Fox or Monk. Whichever is available at 10.

Underdog · 03-21-2017, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For where the Mavs are likely drafting, I believe its either Frank or Fox or Monk. Whichever is available at 10.

I would be happy with any of those guys.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-21-2017, 06:30 PM

The top 10 seem pretty set for the most park, but mocks are allllll over the place after that.

Draftxpress seems to be one of the only ones who think highly of John Collins from Wake Forest. He seems like a legit 4 with good rebounding, good hands, and getting to the ft line. Am I missing something as to why others think lowly of him? His defense seems suspect, but other than that he seems like a good prospect. Game looks similar to Jahlil Okafur.

rimrocker · 03-21-2017, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The top 10 seem pretty set for the most park, but mocks are allllll over the place after that.

Draftxpress seems to be one of the only ones who think highly of John Collins from Wake Forest. He seems like a legit 4 with good rebounding, good hands, and getting to the ft line. Am I missing something as to why others think lowly of him? His defense seems suspect, but other than that he seems like a good prospect. Game looks similar to Jahlil Okafur.

Sounds like somewhere between Wright and Powell with more upside in the rebounding department.
Nice player but not sure I'd waste our pick on him....probably a role player at best.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/02/john-collins.html

EricaLubarsky · 03-21-2017, 10:23 PM

Wake Forest produces some underrated but NBA-ready guys. Quality coaching and a decent program. Lots of emphasis on simplicity and efficiency.

That said, Collins is a late first or early second and way more of a PF than C. His defense is subpar but he's more offensively talented than Powell and Wright. A better analogy would be Greg Monroe.

mac222b · 03-21-2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I would be happy with any of those guys.

Will have to watch more but Fox, Monk, Frank in order of athleticism? Monk, Frank, Fox shooting wise. Frank looks pretty smooth for an 18-19 yr old running an offense. Gets into sets decisively. He and Fox look like potential plus defenders. Haven't looked at Monk yet in that regard. Monk would be paired with a bigger PG ideally. Smallish to consistently guard 2's. Could be putting up Bradley Beal like numbers in a few years.

Too bad we are likely out of Jackson or Tatum's range. I dream of super long front lines...but these guards should all be solid starters or better in the league for many years