Official Rangers off season thread

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

What is your basis for this? The Rangers certainly think so.

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.

He is definitely a lot faster than Murphy, but Murphy is still fast and does indeed get a good jump on balls. That is why I said (and I use my eyes too) that it isn't as crazy as some think to suggest Murphy is a darn good defender that can absolutely hold his own. He might not be as good as Borbon, but he is a good defender.

...and calling out eye-judgements based on one guy's view of one player's defense is silly. You had it right - he is a moron.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

He is definitely a lot faster than Murphy, but Murphy is still fast and does indeed get a good jump on balls. That is why I said (and I use my eyes too) that it isn't as crazy as some think to suggest Murphy is a darn good defender that can absolutely hold his own. He might not be as good as Borbon, but he is a good defender.

...and calling out eye-judgements based on one guy's view of one player's defense is silly. You had it right - he is a moron.

FWIW - I just looked on that same site and David Murphy is listed as 7th for LF defense, just behind Hamilton who is 6th... Thiggy, would that be considered in the same stratosphere, or just outside of it?

Link...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Regarding Jason - sounds like a cocky little shit, but that's just my take on his post. I understand he throws fastball heavy, but I would think that is what is required out of a closer. Didn't Washington and Maddux tell him to go after guys instead of nibbling? That wasn't all fastball nibbling early on. My point is that he CAN throw the other pitches but simply hasn't because that type of a role doesn't (shouldn't) get too fancy - if you have overpowering stuff for 3 hitters, you get them out with it.

Bottom line, while there would most definitely be a transition period (though I think his talent would help jump that gap better than most), what better time than now. Why waste prime years of him as a starter when there are other guys available that can or even have been successful at his role?

To me it is an absolute no brainer to give him the same chance we gave CJ. IF he proves in spring training he can't handle it, fine, keep him as the closer (at least until the next year when I will want to try again), but damn it - let the kid try. How many thought CJ would do this well?

*crickets*

*crickets*

Oh JParks is quite cocky. No doubt. But he's also a professional scout that has spent a ton of time around the Rangers farm system, especially the guys that were coming up around the time that Feliz and Elvis were.

I'm not saying that means you take it as gospel, just presenting it as information to consider.

And I'm not necessarily opposed to giving him another shot in spring training. But I don't consider the comparison to CJ to be very valid. CJ's repertoire is light years ahead of Neffy's.

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

FWIW - I just looked on that same site and David Murphy is listed as 7th for LF defense, just behind Hamilton who is 6th...

Link...

Well, to be fair, he's just behind in the rankings but quite a bit behind on the actual point totals.

And I don't have much quibble with that. I'd be curious to see where they'd rank Borbon in left. I suspect it would be quite high, especially considering his arm doesn't hurt him much there.

And on the flip side, I feel pretty confident in saying that Murphy would be positioned as below average in center by anyone that would vote on this. He just doesn't have the range for center.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, to be fair, he's just behind in the rankings but quite a bit behind on the actual point totals.

And I don't have much quibble with that. I'd be curious to see where they'd rank Borbon in left. I suspect it would be quite high, especially considering his arm doesn't hurt him much there.

And on the flip side, I feel pretty confident in saying that Murphy would be positioned as below average in center by anyone that would vote on this. He just doesn't have the range for center.

Check my edit above...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Check my edit above...

Alright, maybe "same stratosphere" was hyperbolic. It's certainly not the first time I've been guilty of that.

It is interesting to note that Bill James has Murphy as the 3rd best left fielder in baseball, and Borbon as the 3rd best CF.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

I agree with the part in bold greatly and have been preaching as much, despite Hamilton playing CF as a result.