2018 NBA Draft - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 05-20-2018, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Which tape you watched of Porter to put him at #2? Some HS stuff?

HS > Euroleague?

I think its just weird to put Porter at #2 and Doncic at #6 with such arguments

Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.

Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.

j0Shi · 05-21-2018, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

but NOBODY plays defense.

That seems to be a weird perception. EU basketball is much more physical than the sissy NBA of today.

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 12:15 PM

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Ginobiliiii, Wes Mathews, Joe Ingles and imsure many others have made it fine.

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

And that's why I dont put him in my top 5.

Dude absolutely knows how to play basketball. He is ready to come in and I fully expect him to average 15-4-4 next season if given the minutes. He absolutely will be a decent starter.

I just think his ceiling is fairly low. He's young, sure. I'm not sure where he goes to really elevate his game.

Then again, you could have said that about Dirk and he added absolutely lethal jumpshooting. And driving. And post-play. And decent defense.

MavzMan · 05-21-2018, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

I would argue that being High-IQ/Low-Athletic is lot more likely to make it in the NBA that Low-IQ/High-Athletic. There are athletic guys all over the place, just go look at the local park. Watching Harden and CP3 last night, they are not overly athletic themselves. They use their bodies very well in initiating a ton of contact in order to create space. GS is also a perfect example in that they block out on rebounds all of the time preventing taller/more athletic players from getting the rebound.

I'm not saying that Doncic is going to be a super-star, but I am saying that he declaring that he won't be simply because of athleticism is wrong. However, I really hope the Mavs don't have to make that choice because I don't want to go through another franchise player career with a Euro player that gets zero respect from the league.

Melonhead · 05-21-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

Why this logic counts for Doncic but not for Porter?

And what if Porter ends up just as a lame taller version of Joe Johnson? wasted pick too, huh? Because Porter has to be a superstar to justify the pick

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And all of those guys superstars right? And Manu wasn't a great athlete, but he from my recollection moved pretty fluidly especially without the ball.

Once again, Doncic has to be a superstar to justify the pick. He can't just be fricken' Wes Matthew or Joe Ingles.

You said make it in the nba though. Doncic looks every bit as smooth if not more smooth than Ginobili. He wont be available when we pick anyway, but there is no way we wouldn't take him if he was there at 5.

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Giannis was an absolute freak athlete with freak size. I dunno how ANYONE could watch Doncic and think he has the athleticism needed to make it in today's NBA.

Like pretty much every NBA scout?

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The last time the Mavs passed on the elite ball handler with size that fell into thier laps, he became Giannis.

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

...and KP

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

By that logic, you shouldn't pass on 7 foot Europeans.

And that got the Knicks Bargnani

The Knicks? You sure about that?

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because Porter moves better, he's smoother, faster, better at getting into position on defense, his shot is more consistent -- mechanics don't change with competition.

Plus, Euroleague is fucking garbage -- guys just stand there and watch Doncic score. I don't know how the rules work over there, but NOBODY plays defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Michael Porter Jr. didn't just play in high school, he played the McDonalds All-American camp, Crossroads Elite camp, USA camp, etc -- he's played against future NBA talent for years now... He played against Dennis Smith Jr, even... I have a much better idea of what he'll be in the NBA than Doncic.

Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.

And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games

Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...

Underdog · 05-21-2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Sorry, you lost me completly here...writing that Euroleague is garbage etc but Porter is great because he looked good in freaking camp games.

And if you not even really know the euro rules means you dont really watch euro games

Just be honest and say you are absolute biased in general against euro ball...

Yes, I'm absolutely biased against EuroLeague, where Nick Calathes (a guy who couldn't even stick as the 15th man on the Mavs roster) is one of the best players. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. And, no, I don't watch enough Euro games to understand the nuances of the rules because it makes my eyes bleed, but I assume the calls against defenders are ticky-tack since I've literally seen guys move AWAY from Doncic while he's driving to the basket. A lot... Call it the "second best basketball league in the world" all you want, but the WNBA is a far more competitive, and I say that with 100% sincerity.

Feel free to downplay the camps that Michael Porter Jr. attended, but at least he's been surrounded by future NBA talent for years now, whereas Doncic is playing against guys who couldn't even stick in the league. Just because they're grown-ups doesn't mean they're any good... He certainly never played a game with this much talent on the floor at once:

2017 McDonald's All American -- Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.

I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.

sefant77 · 05-21-2018, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Michael Porter Jr (MVP), DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tre Young, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton, Lonnie Walker, Kevin Knox, Mitch Robinson, Troy Brown, Gary Trent Jr, etc.

I think it's a lot easier to gauge a guy who's going up against future NBA players than a guy who's beating scrubs... Doncic will be a good player (which is why I have him ranked #6), but to assume he'll be able to dominate in the NBA just because he can make NBA washouts in Europe look foolish is way off base.

Who says the players are future NBA players? Maybe some end up in china pretty soon, maybe some are career towel waivers...maybe some has worse NBA careers than Nick Calathes...

Underdog · 05-21-2018, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Who says the players are future NBA players? Maybe some end up in china pretty soon, maybe some are career towel waivers...maybe some has worse NBA careers than Nick Calathes...

Because all of the guys I just named are projected to go in the 1st round (most of them in the lottery range), whereas Nick Calathes went #45 overall... Sure, some of them can bust out of the league, but at least they're all seen as having high-end NBA potential in the first place... That was never the case with Calathes, and his career trajectory has proven why.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because all of the guys I just named are projected to go in the 1st round (most of them in the lottery range), whereas Nick Calathes went #45 overall... Sure, some of them can bust out of the league, but at least they're all seen as having high-end NBA potential in the first place... That was never the case with Calathes, and his career trajectory has proven why.

Even still, I think there is stock to be taken from euro success on the level he is having. Calathes and many euro players are vets and have higher IQ than most lotto picks coming in. Others have athleticism near the level of nba players, but the IQ isnt there.. or they would be in the league. They are good but cant put it all together enough to be in the nba..for now.

Doncic would probably snicker at the nba crowds and environment. It's ridiculous over there.