PG and C positions

[AO41]

I know its early and I still think we can bounce back. But as some have mentioned, I am not sure why D Will is having trouble running an offense and being the PG. Even when he does a good job...the pace is too slow.

Speaking of slow.....Dirk really really slows down our offense and the D is bad out there. I think having HB out there helps our offense because we don't have to wait for Dirk each time down the court. I felt like every time we waited for Dirk, the offense was a mess and way too slow.

- We need a faster/ more energy PG that can score and run an offense at a faster pace. And as always we need a TC type center that can cover for Dirk.

- Speaking of TC...Should we look at Bledsoe and TC?? I am not in favor of bringing TC back, but would it help any if we got Bledsoe??

- Philly has a lot of big men....Do we have assets to get N. Noel?? Would he be worth it with his injuries?

What else is available out there and what would we be able to get?? OR do we just let this season play out and get a high draft pick??

I know there a lot in this...but any thoughts??

[Underdog]

I like Bledsoe, but TC is no longer a "TC-type" center... And Noel will probably cost too much... Better to hold course and rebuild through the draft so we can get stud player without giving anyone up.

Plus, I'm not sure if you can still cover for Dirk if he's permanently a step slower than he was last year... Might be time to bring him off the bench if he can't shake this achilles thing.

[Budapest Maverick]

Noel would be awesome (really good defensive player), but we don't have the assets, unfortunately. I don't think this year's pick + Anderson would get it done, and that is pretty much our best package. I think our center position is not that bad btw, provided that Bogut can play 20 efficient minutes, and Mejri 15 (and RC would actually use him). Then the rest would be small ball. Our PG play is weak, yeah, Williams is clearly way past his peak, and answering your question, him being fat obviously plays a big part in that. I mean, it is ridiculous, he is an NBA player who earns millions, and cannot come close to being in shape. He is not in terrible shape, I guess, but he has 10 extra pounds he should lose. He he is not fined for this, is beyond me. I believe NBA teams can penalize their players for not being in shape, right?

[Melonhead]

We cannot overreact. Have to stay the course at the moment.

Noel is having surgery yeah?

PHX looks better than us sooo. Plus we dont want Tyson and Tyson doesnt want us. That bridge is burned.

If something opens up i.e. cant miss trade later in the season, sure. But our 1st rd pick CANT be parted with unless we're getting a Brow type player(and we arent getting him)

[rimrocker]

The intriguing thing about Bledsoe to me is how he might be achievable without giving up many future assets if we are willing to take on TC.
Whether TC is any good or not is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned if the goal is to rebuild.
If we can acquire Bledsoe without giving up Barnes, Anderson or our pick then I'd say we should pull the trigger in any other scenario if possible.

Barnes, Anderson, Bledsoe and most likely a high pick would be some nice young building blocks that could possibly attract a decent FA.

[Budapest Maverick]

LOL, I swear I didn't know this yet, when I posted my previous post. It was so freakin' predictable, I even said it is going to be an ankle or groin problem (in another post a couple of days ago). Why are they allowing him to be out of shape, to not take care of his body? This is ridiculous.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

We cannot overreact. Have to stay the course at the moment.

I understand your point but if we stay on this course about any trade would be an improvement.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Noel would be awesome (really good defensive player), but we don't have the assets, unfortunately. I don't think this year's pick + Anderson would get it done, and that is pretty much our best package. I think our center position is not that bad btw, provided that Bogut can play 20 efficient minutes, and Mejri 15 (and RC would actually use him). Then the rest would be small ball. Our PG play is weak, yeah, Williams is clearly way past his peak, and answering your question, him being fat obviously plays a big part in that. I mean, it is ridiculous, he is an NBA player who earns millions, and cannot come close to being in shape. He is not in terrible shape, I guess, but he has 10 extra pounds he should lose. He he is not fined for this, is beyond me. I believe NBA teams can penalize their players for not being in shape, right?

Bogut has been terrible this year. He has been so slow, committed such pointless fouls and gotten burned so frequently, I'm already ready to punt on him. Trade him this instant if you can get value... he isn't a starting center in 2016.

And I think I've probably made my position on Nerlens Noel pretty clear by now... I would trade whatever we needed to for him. Simba/1st? Done. Barnes? Done. Powell/two conditional 1sts? Done. I think Simba/1st is the only appealing package from the Sixers' perspective, but if they're receptive to that trade I'd do it yesterday, even before Nerlens heals from the (relatively minor) surgery he just had. He can be a franchise-changing defensive player, and I love the potential he and Barnes would have together.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

We cannot overreact. Have to stay the course at the moment.

Noel is having surgery yeah?

PHX looks better than us sooo. Plus we dont want Tyson and Tyson doesnt want us. That bridge is burned.

If something opens up i.e. cant miss trade later in the season, sure. But our 1st rd pick CANT be parted with unless we're getting a Brow type player(and we arent getting him)

I would say with little hesitation that Tyson would come back gladly if it got him out of Phoenix. I would probably want some sort of sweetener if we were taking that contract from Phoenix but he'd immediately be the best center on this roster if he came back today. Plus, we know Dirk absolutely loves him.

Originally Posted by rimrocker

The intriguing thing about Bledsoe to me is how he might be achievable without giving up many future assets if we are willing to take on TC.
Whether TC is any good or not is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned if the goal is to rebuild.
If we can acquire Bledsoe without giving up Barnes, Anderson or our pick then I'd say we should pull the trigger in any other scenario if possible.

Barnes, Anderson, Bledsoe and most likely a high pick would be some nice young building blocks that could possibly attract a decent FA.

I'm down for trading for Bledsoe if he doesn't cost us anything beyond some sort of conditional first and one of our middling assets. I don't think he's much more than a top-50 or top-60 player right now even when healthy, but he's better than all of our guards.

[EricaLubarsky]

Making desperation moves is dangerous. It's how we got Rondo and lost the 16th overall draft pick. Be opportunistic.

I honestly don't think that our C position is that bad. Powell was amazing as a fast-hit center in a small lineup and doesn't give much height. Mejri was effective in prior games. Bogut will show up more as he gets more comfortable. If you can get a Davis, you do it, obviously. Shop hard, look for opportunities, but I dont think it's time to panic on either the PG or C.

PG is admittedly weaker-- it has the same talent problem as C, but also health issues with Harris and Williams. Again, dont move out of desperation, but if something good comes about, you pull the trigger.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

What has Bledsoe done that makes people think he'd be some sort of game changing pg? He's a loser on a team that's worse than us.

It's funny because we have depth but don't have good enough talent in that depth.

And I said all summer that Deron Williams would be the X factor going into this season. Too bad he is still on vacation.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What has Bledsoe done that makes people think he'd be some sort of game changing pg? He's a loser on a team that's worse than us.

It isn't so much that he is a game changing PG but the situation that might allow us to get him without giving up too much is what is intriguing.
For instance, if we want to start the rebuild process with Barnes and Anderson, getting Bledsoe helps expedite that process if we don't have to give up young and future assets. If we can trade for him and then draft a talented player, that might be enough to lure a decent young FA next offseason.
Bledsoe/Anderson/Jackson (I wish)/Barnes/Hammons (Powell) and a decent FA would be a really nice young core to start building with going into next season.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hey, speak of the devil...

Earl K. Sneed ‏@EarlKSneed 4h4 hours ago Dallas, TX
Rick Carlisle says Deron Williams is "questionable at best" for Friday against Portland with a right adductor/groin problem.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What has Bledsoe done that makes people think he'd be some sort of game changing pg? He's a loser on a team that's worse than us.

It's funny because we have depth but don't have good enough talent in that depth.

And I said all summer that Deron Williams would be the X factor going into this season. Too bad he is still on vacation.

Uh, he's younger and better than every single guard on our roster?

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Bogut has been terrible this year. He has been so slow, committed such pointless fouls and gotten burned so frequently, I'm already ready to punt on him. Trade him this instant if you can get value... he isn't a starting center in 2016.

And I think I've probably made my position on Nerlens Noel pretty clear by now... I would trade whatever we needed to for him. Simba/1st? Done. Barnes? Done. Powell/two conditional 1sts? Done. I think Simba/1st is the only appealing package from the Sixers' perspective, but if they're receptive to that trade I'd do it yesterday, even before Nerlens heals from the (relatively minor) surgery he just had. He can be a franchise-changing defensive player, and I love the potential he and Barnes would have together.



I would say with little hesitation that Tyson would come back gladly if it got him out of Phoenix. I would probably want some sort of sweetener if we were taking that contract from Phoenix but he'd immediately be the best center on this roster if he came back today. Plus, we know Dirk absolutely loves him.



I'm down for trading for Bledsoe if he doesn't cost us anything beyond some sort of conditional first and one of our middling assets. I don't think he's much more than a top-50 or top-60 player right now even when healthy, but he's better than all of our guards.

Um source on TC being glad to come back? Anytime he speaks, he's still salty about the last time around.

Noel hasnt done a whole lot and no way I would give up a first for him. And you cant give up Barnes in the same paragraph as mentioning how great Barnes/Noel would work together.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Uh, he's younger and better than every single guard on our roster?

I would also add he does everything all in one package(, where as we use the other guards for the one thing theyre good at. Barea-drives and pnr, Harris-defense/3 ball, Deron-floor general.

Bledsoe is a top 13-15 pg, when healthy.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Um source on TC being glad to come back? Anytime he speaks, he's still salty about the last time around.

I don't have a source like a quote or anything... he was salty the first time we didn't re-sign him and came back very enthusiastically. He also signed with the Suns with the impression that they were targeting Aldridge... and halfway through last season was quoted as saying "I didn't sign up for a rebuilding project" or something to that effect. We're immediately a better team than Phoenix if we added Tyson, and by an even larger margin if we somehow got Bledsoe along with him.

Me believing he'd welcome a return is purely speculation on my part. I think any hard feelings are overblown and mostly went away once the season started last year.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Noel hasnt done a whole lot and no way I would give up a first for him. And you cant give up Barnes in the same paragraph as mentioning how great Barnes/Noel would work together.

Don't let the awful organization around him cloud the fact that Nerlens is one of the most consistent, versatile and valuable young bigs in the league. He's averaged over 1.5 steals and blocks both seasons, is a good rebounder for a PF/C combo (I imagine he'd be even better as a full-time C) and is one of the rare bigs that can guard the post, the rim, can switch pick-and-rolls and can stay in front of bigger guards on the perimeter. He's everything you want in a defensive center. And he's only 23.

Now if you want to say that you think he's peaked, or his stats are empty, or his injuries make him too much of a risk, those are all legitimate concerns, but I see him as a guy who would be a DPOY candidate in the right (see: hopefully our) organization. I'd send them our first (top-5 protected) and Simba without blinking.

[spreedom]

Apologies for the double post. Nerlens' career numbers through two full seasons (including last year, where he played out of position at PF for a majority of his minutes):



If he averaged those for three years he'd immediately become the best center in franchise history. I'd be willing to bet that he'll get at least a little better virtually across the board with Rick as his coach and more stability in general surrounding him.

[Melonhead]

“I never heard of a championship team being broken up like that. When they traded for me to come back, I sat at the podium with everybody else and heard them say this was going to be a long-term deal and they weren’t going to make the same mistake as last time and blah-blah-blah. Seven months later, the same thing happens again. But I learned in this business that you can’t trust everybody. That’s why it is what it is."
…
“To be honest, I don’t know what my emotions are going to be like going in there until I get there,” Chandler said. “I feel like the whole situation was all bad – twice.”

Tried to find something else because I know he's spoken about it a couple times last season. Just no way he would be okay with getting burned twice by Cuban and then coming back a third time. Hell Parsons is actively talking about and traveling to campaign for Jordan before the season was even over. TC was PISSED about that. Any human would.

[spreedom]

I'm okay agreeing to disagree on that point.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

“I never heard of a championship team being broken up like that. When they traded for me to come back, I sat at the podium with everybody else and heard them say this was going to be a long-term deal and they weren’t going to make the same mistake as last time and blah-blah-blah. Seven months later, the same thing happens again. But I learned in this business that you can’t trust everybody. That’s why it is what it is."
…
“To be honest, I don’t know what my emotions are going to be like going in there until I get there,” Chandler said. “I feel like the whole situation was all bad – twice.”

Tried to find something else because I know he's spoken about it a couple times last season. Just no way he would be okay with getting burned twice by Cuban and then coming back a third time. Hell Parsons is actively talking about and traveling to campaign for Jordan before the season was even over. TC was PISSED about that. Any human would.

I love Tyson but he sounds like a whiny little bitch. You revived your career. Made a lot of $. And won a fucking championship. Yes it's so "all bad"

[mac222b]

Noel is good but no to giving up the 1st.

[mac222b]

I still don't think the Suns give away Bledsoe just for taking Tyson off their hands. Not with another cap spike coming. Or possible amnesty. Is that still a possibility?

[DIRK LEGIONS]

sadly the mavs lack of productive drafting the last 5yrs has caught up to them and it looklike dirk gonna end his career on a lottery team.

i hope am wrong but it maybe time to tank
justin Anderson was a overdraft could ve been had in 2nd rd if he develops you hope his cieling is Trevor ariza type player i think he nothing more than a serviceable 2nd unit guy.

keep our 1st.rd.pick and start rebuilding let all the big deals expire. golden state has west wrapped up the next 2 yrs so getting back to back lottery picks can help with recalibration of mavs moving up in conference standing in 18. this yr barely a legit 8th seed more like 10/11 th seed in west

any deal with suns giving you tyson back must net back young talent like devin booker who i think is way better than Anderson

[AO41]

I dont want TC back for TC....but if it will allow us to get Bledsoe, I think is is absolutely worth it. And the last time I checked, TC doesn't have a "no trade" clause. If he doesn't want to be here after the trade, we can send him packing elsewhere and maybe even get something of value back.

Bledsoe has had some issues, but he is a very good overall PG and we haven't had that since Kidd.I would give anyone up for Bledsoe other than Barnes/ Anderson/ Dirk. The Suns already have Knight and maybe they take Matthews to help mentor some of the young SGs.

Bogut/Matthews/??

for

Bledoes/ TC

Bledsoe/ Harris/ JJ
D Will?
Anderson/ Barnes
Barnes/ Dirk
TC/ Mejri

...would be a good team.If we can get Noel it would get even better.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DIRK LEGIONS

sadly the mavs lack of productive drafting the last 5yrs has caught up to them and it looklike dirk gonna end his career on a lottery team.

We didn't have a draft pick last year or Crowder who was a draft success...because of Dirk's desire to play with Rondo.

I don't feel too bad for Dirk when it comes to the draft.

Free agency? Sure. That was pie-in-the-sky and we did okay rather than superbly. Still think Matthews and Barnes are good supporting pieces that could be part of a great team. We just didn't get the top-tier superstars (that aren't available via free agency more than once a decade anyway).

[Underdog]

I know this is a stacked draft, but is there anyone you guys would trade our pick for? Like, if we could get Boogie with our first-rounder, would you pull the trigger? Or do you like your odds better in the draft?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I know this is a stacked draft, but is there anyone you guys would trade our pick for? Like, if we could get Boogie with our first-rounder, would you pull the trigger? Or do you like your odds better in the draft?

If we're offered Boogie or Brow for our 2017 and any combination of guys on the roster, you do that in a second. Don't think about it. Even the first overall pick only nets a 70% chance of netting a superstar and we're highly unlikely to even get that. A superstar in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Now if they asked for 2017 and 2019, I'd have to think harder, but no matter how good the draft is a guaranteed star is usually better than the chance of one.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I know this is a stacked draft, but is there anyone you guys would trade our pick for? Like, if we could get Boogie with our first-rounder, would you pull the trigger? Or do you like your odds better in the draft?

Boogie is worth a first. But I dont see the Kings ever letting him go unless he forces something himself.

I really dont want to give up the first, because it just shows the FO hasnt learned their lesson yet if that happens. It would have to be a Boogie, Brow, etc. And thats possibly unrealistic on my part. Hence, my hesitation to part with a 1st rd pick.

[Thebo]

There is no reason to believe that Boogie will not be moved by trade deadline. I find it hard to believe he is going to stay in the team that can not make it to the playoffs. He has been stuck in Kevin Love 2.0 situation and will get out of there unless traded. His value may be a little down also because for sure he will re-sign only with playoff team.

My guess is that he ends up on free agency no matter what. Eventually in Eastern Conference. May somehow reunite with Rondo or Wall. If Mavs end up having disastrous start to the season, they may be in the race for trade deadline and actually have a chance to later re-sign Boogie thanks to Mavs' good track record for making playoffs almost every season.

There is zero change Kings will trade him before February though, unless someone is going to be really generous. Any trade will give them first round pick(s) and they will want to have those picks as good as possible, no sense trading him earlier and have Boogie produce good team record before season is over. Some young piece(s) and two lottery first rounders are probably going to be his price. Kings did want to sign Matthews, so there might be some interest...

Powell+Bogut would match the salary but you probably would have to add Simba as sweetener. Unless you are parting Matthews for Boogie straight up. Both cases would obviously include draft picks. Hard to imagine Simba not being included there. At the same time Powell has reasonable contract and Bogut is expiring.

I am sure Mavs did not plan any serious trades this season but if things continue as they are, they probably will try to get in the race if some big names are going to be thrown around.

[markus1234]

I think Deron will be OK. He is clearly not in shape (Could not do much during the summer). In 4-5 weeks he should be a different player. Dirk should also be OK in 1-2 weeks.

We need more from the other guys. No excuses for Welsey, Powell, Bogut, Justin, JJB and co. Effort is not 100% IMO.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I know this is a stacked draft, but is there anyone you guys would trade our pick for? Like, if we could get Boogie with our first-rounder, would you pull the trigger? Or do you like your odds better in the draft?

Depends, if it's a top 3 pick, I would take my chances with the young stud, if it's not, I would probably do the trade.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Prolly in the minority on this but I wouldn't trade a top 8-10 pick for Boogie. He's absolutely talented enough to warrant more than that in a deal but I wouldn't want to build around him personally. He's still after 7 years a ticking time bomb on the floor with his emotions. I've watched 2 Kings games this year and in both games he lost his mind over calls. Calls that on the replay he absolutely without question fouled. He's never seen the playoffs and if he can't handle regular season calls 5 games into the year as a veteran going on 7 years... then I'm afraid to see him when try to keep them in check when it counts most in the playoffs. Because based on what we see every year in the playoffs, it's not like it won't get harder. And if a team knows he's mentally vulnerable they will do whatever it takes to exploit it.