What should we do this summer: a poll - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tcat075 · 05-09-2010, 10:30 AM

We keep talking about jump shots vs drives. Here's some basic info from 82games about the percentages for some of the players we've talked about. I'm just looking at 09-10 stats, so if somebody had an uncharacteristic year, this won't pick it up. Nor does this include the ability to draw foul shots. Just a warning.

Most interesting is Iggy's...I said he was a driver several times above, and he definitely does it well, but he didn't do it a whole lot last year.

Andre Iguodala: 71% jumper, 29% inside
Joe Johnson: 79% jumper, 21% inside
LeBron James: 64% jumper, 36% inside
Caron Butler: 72% jumper, 28% inside
Jason Terry: 85% jumper, 15% inside
Rudy Gay: 68% jumper, 32% inside
Dwyane Wade: 63% jumper, 37% inside
Kevin Martin: 77% jumper, 23% inside
John Salmons: 72% jumper, 28% inside

edit: Corey Maggette: 58% jumper, 42% inside! (and 20% of shots draw fouls)

SMC0007 · 05-09-2010, 11:21 AM

Wheres the option to vote for GOLF?

badfish22 · 05-09-2010, 02:08 PM

jthig is changing my mind, but there are still concerns with JJ

jthig32 · 05-09-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

jthig is changing my mind, but there are still concerns with JJ

There are concerns with anyone not named Lebron...and maybe Wade.

jthig32 · 05-09-2010, 02:49 PM

I'm willing to dismiss the playoff results with Atlanta because they came with Joe being the primary offensive player. Pair him with a player like Dirk and he's not going to be forcing shots like that.

I understand how his most recent performances would leave a bad taste in your mouth, but I think it's dangerous to draw conclusions from such a small sample size. We certainly aren't kind to the one poster around that keeps mentioning Dirk's Golden State series.

BGMaverick9 · 05-09-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm willing to dismiss the playoff results with Atlanta because they came with Joe being the primary offensive player. Pair him with a player like Dirk and he's not going to be forcing shots like that.

I understand how his most recent performances would leave a bad taste in your mouth, but I think it's dangerous to draw conclusions from such a small sample size. We certainly aren't kind to the one poster around that keeps mentioning Dirk's Golden State series.

It's not necessarily just this run, sure he was hobbled with injuries a bit last year but he still didn't perform. In a Game 7 versus Boston the team pretty much laid down and he shot 24 percent.

But with this game I saw the first quarter of I don't see how he can get off the hook. If he is so great at creating offense for himself, why do the first 5 shots end up being jumpers and you go 3-15 in the game? If he's creative, attack the basket or do something inside of 15 feet, Howard has been abused with foul calls...test him. I just didn't like the "lead by example" quality right there. Talent or no talent, you just carry your team and show off the versatility. I didn't see anything out there other than someone who was already defeated. They were already talking after game 1 and game 2 that it'll take a perfect game to beat the Magic...that doesn't cut it. Guys like Lebron and Wade, they attack and will go down trying...I don't necessarily get that with Joe.

I would think the writing is on the wall that he's gonna leave. He's going to command top dollar and Atlanta now realizes they are far far away from being considered an elite team in the East. They've held on to that core group for at least 3-4 years and its not gotten them past the semi's. They're young, but they're not growing out of their immature tendencies.

jthig32 · 05-09-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's not necessarily just this run, sure he was hobbled with injuries a bit last year but he still didn't perform. In a Game 7 versus Boston the team pretty much laid down and he shot 24 percent.

But with this game I saw the first quarter of I don't see how he can get off the hook. If he is so great at creating offense for himself, why do the first 5 shots end up being jumpers and you go 3-15 in the game? If he's creative, attack the basket or do something inside of 15 feet, Howard has been abused with foul calls...test him. I just didn't like the "lead by example" quality right there. Talent or no talent, you just carry your team and show off the versatility. I didn't see anything out there other than someone who was already defeated. They were already talking after game 1 and game 2 that it'll take a perfect game to beat the Magic...that doesn't cut it. Guys like Lebron and Wade, they attack and will go down trying...I don't necessarily get that with Joe.

I would think the writing is on the wall that he's gonna leave. He's going to command top dollar and Atlanta now realizes they are far far away from being considered an elite team in the East. They've held on to that core group for at least 3-4 years and its not gotten them past the semi's. They're young, but they're not growing out of their immature tendencies.

Without looking at any specific stats, I would imagine you could draw observations like this on a lot of second bananas that tried to carry their teams in the playoffs. Gasol comes to mind, for instance.

BGMaverick9 · 05-09-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Without looking at any specific stats, I would imagine you could draw observations like this on a lot of second bananas that tried to carry their teams in the playoffs. Gasol comes to mind, for instance.

I think other than his last full year in Memphis which had them facing Dallas, he held his own. If not twenty then nearly twenty points a game with shooting percentages above 50% on average.

I dunno, I'm just really hesitant with the idea of Joe on board. He's been used to being a number 1, he's gonna get paid like a number one and then he has to slide to the number 2 spot. With the money and expectations, he has to be a can't miss option.

jthig32 · 05-09-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think other than his last full year in Memphis which had them facing Dallas, he held his own. If not twenty then nearly twenty points a game with shooting percentages above 50% on average.

I dunno, I'm just really hesitant with the idea of Joe on board. He's been used to being a number 1, he's gonna get paid like a number one and then he has to slide to the number 2 spot. With the money and expectations, he has to be a can't miss option.

Well he'll have plenty of teams wanting him to come be the main guy. Heck he can stay in Atlanta as the main guy. If he chooses to come here, I have to imagine he'll know what he's signing on for.

He chose to leave Phoenix and go be the guy in Atlanta. Maybe he's learned his lesson.

As far as can't miss option, those are named Lebron and Wade. Beyond that....no such thing. Personally I'm betting on Joe Johnson third after them.

clutch#41 · 05-09-2010, 03:05 PM

if we cant get Dwade,Joe Johnson or a legitimate non washed up SG..then jus trade dirk Cuban...theres no point to get all hyped up then once postseason comes were another 1st or 2nd round exit!

GermanDunk · 05-09-2010, 03:36 PM

Would anyone agree with me, that this team is good enough ?

clutch#41 · 05-09-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Would anyone agree with me, that this team is good enough ?

????? obviously not if we lost in the 1st round lol

tcat075 · 05-09-2010, 03:45 PM

And yes, I know I mentioned I wasn't sure Johnson is leaving, but I don't really believe that. 6 months ago, 3 months ago, yes I did. I'm not so sure anymore, with their playoff play. The only reason I could give is that the team is still rather young, but they're not so young that they're going to improve like the Thunder did this year.

GermanDunk · 05-09-2010, 04:00 PM

The Suns are playing quite good. And they are not better than the Mavs.
I´m not a fan of hire and fire.

SMC0007 · 05-09-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

The Suns are playing quite good. And they are not better than the Mavs.
I´m not a fan of hire and fire.

The ostrich and I un-concur.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-09-2010, 04:19 PM

Well, at least Iguodala gives the Spurs fits. Last 4 years vs SA:

9-17 for 27 pts
8-14 for 20 pts
6-11 for 19 pts
9-18 for 25 pts
10-15 for 25 pts
7-11 for 21 pts
7-18 for 21 pts
7-12 for 20 pts

22.3 ppg at 54.3% shooting on average. Apparently they can't guard him...

tcat075 · 05-09-2010, 08:49 PM

If we do acquire Joe Johnson, then I'd be happy. I think I'd be happier if we got Iggy, but I'd be happy for JJ. I'd hope like hell we get either a scoring big man (not Shaq...he's done) or a driving wing, but I'd be happy for Johnson.

grndmstr_c · 05-09-2010, 09:17 PM

I don't agree that Iggy and Marion are a terrible fit playing together. Granted, both leave something to be desired relative to the standards of their positions when it comes to scoring efficiency on non-dunks; but I think the combination of Dirk's unique offensive skillset, Kidd's late-life emergence as a legit three-point threat, and the defense that both Iggy and Marion can play more than compensate for those concerns. Of course, both the Iggy+Caron and JJ+Marion duos would seem to have the potential to provide better balance.

mac222b · 05-09-2010, 09:31 PM

I'm not sure i'd give up Butler in a deal for Joe Johnson or Iggy. i understand UD's point. w/Iggy you are presumably getting back a back-up big(Dalembert). but is Damp/Butler too much to give up for JJ? i kind of feel like it is.

mac222b · 05-09-2010, 09:37 PM

i also think Bosh should be our 3rd option behind LeBron and DWade. the question is do you give up Roddy to get him? Dust/Butler/Roddy i'd say no way. but Dust/Roddy and a pick for Bosh is intriguing.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-09-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

i also think Bosh should be our 3rd option behind LeBron and DWade. the question is do you give up Roddy to get him? Dust/Butler/Roddy i'd say no way. but Dust/Roddy and a pick for Bosh is intriguing.

I don't get the fascination with Bosh. He basically plays the same position as Dirk except Dirk is better than him. We should only consider him is if - god forbid - Dirk leaves. In that case we can give up Dust/Butler/Picks to get him.

A question: If we lose Dirk and we decide to go all in for Bosh, does including a Terry for Torkoglu swap make sense to you all? Because I know for sure that Toronto will try to push his contract on us...

sike · 05-09-2010, 10:36 PM

too many options.

Keep Dirk, Pursue Wade (JJ as back up), do whatever you can to move JET to help progress Roddy's career.

FromDownTown! · 05-09-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

too many options.

Keep Dirk, Pursue Wade (JJ as back up), do whatever you can to move JET to help progress Roddy's career.

Now were talking. I think D.Wade would be our best option this summer. Keep Kidd, Roddy, Dirk(?), and Haywood. If Dirk Leaves pursue Bosh to replace him.

tcat075 · 05-09-2010, 11:09 PM

I would love DWade, but realistically I have my hopes low. I certainly think its possible, though...I feel about 75% sure he's going to leave (I don't think they're getting Bosh or Amare or Boozer, though if they do, I'd bet he stays). Where does he go? I think the Mavericks definitely have ways to obtain him, and if the Heat are going to have to choose between a S&T (that includes Butler and a 1st rounder) or just flat out losing him...the decision is obvious.

sike · 05-10-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I would love DWade, but realistically I have my hopes low. I certainly think its possible, though...I feel about 75% sure he's going to leave (I don't think they're getting Bosh or Amare or Boozer, though if they do, I'd bet he stays). Where does he go? I think the Mavericks definitely have ways to obtain him, and if the Heat are going to have to choose between a S&T (that includes Butler and a 1st rounder) or just flat out losing him...the decision is obvious.

these are my thoughts as well...is Wade wants the combo of winning and a great shot at a ring/s, Dallas is, I think, his BEST option.

BGMaverick9 · 05-10-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

these are my thoughts as well...is Wade wants the combo of winning and a great shot at a ring/s, Dallas is, I think, his BEST option.

I don't know what Chicago has in terms of a quasi-like DUST-Chip or draft picks...but they seem like a team that could easily compete to win his services. That's his hometown and they've got an awesome guard with Rose and an energetic big man in Noah. They've got pieces...

JCmasta · 05-10-2010, 12:11 AM

Get rid of: Kidd, Terry, Dampier, JJB.

Go hard after: Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Lebron James(long shot but of course i'll take him), Dwayne Wade.

When the new season starts up i want to see a line up of Roddy at PG, Joe Johnson/Dwayne Wade at SG, Butler and Marion at SF, Dirk at PF, and Boozer/Bosh along with Woody at C.

If we keep any of the guys i said get rid of except for maybe Kidd, then i'll be disappointed. If we go into it with them as our starters or part of our regular rotations, i'll boycott the team.

If Dirk keeps his mouth shut like a good little boy then just surround him with winners or guys with superior talent at this point of his career. if he starts yapping then ship him too, he's at fault just like everyone else for this team becoming the laughingstock of the NBA so he doesn't have the right to say anything.

fluid.forty.one · 05-10-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCmasta

Get rid of: Kidd, Terry, Dampier, JJB.

Go hard after: Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Lebron James(long shot but of course i'll take him), Dwayne Wade.

When the new season starts up i want to see a line up of Roddy at PG, Joe Johnson/Dwayne Wade at SG, Butler and Marion at SF, Dirk at PF, and Boozer/Bosh along with Woody at C.

If we keep any of the guys i said get rid of except for maybe Kidd, then i'll be disappointed. If we go into it with them as our starters or part of our regular rotations, i'll boycott the team.

If Dirk keeps his mouth shut like a good little boy then just surround him with winners or guys with superior talent at this point of his career. if he starts yapping then ship him too, he's at fault just like everyone else for this team becoming the laughingstock of the NBA so he doesn't have the right to say anything.

When has Dirk done anything that would make you say something like "if Dirk keeps his mouth shut"? Are you stupid?

And how in the hell are we suppose to sign Wade AND Bosh. Because even if we get one with the DUST/Butler chips, the other is NOT going to come from just "Kidd, Terry and/or JJB".

JCmasta · 05-10-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

When has Dirk done anything that would make you say something like "if Dirk keeps his mouth shut"? Are you stupid?

And how in the hell are we suppose to sign Wade AND Bosh. Because even if we get one with the DUST/Butler chips, the other is NOT going to come from just "Kidd, Terry and/or JJB".

Dirk has been the leader and superstar for this team as long as i can remember and we've lost and had some of the most shocking/disappointing losses in NBA history. He's not Tim Duncan, he's not Kobe Bryant, he hasn't willed this team to a chip like he should have during that finals run, so why should he make all of these demands and "keep his options open" like he deserves better? Wade was surrounded by guys like Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Old Mourning, and somewhat old Shaq. Are you telling me that was better than JET, Howard, Harris, Stackhouse etc? Hell no, but why don't we have a chip right now? It's because Dirk came up short.

fluid.forty.one · 05-10-2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCmasta

Dirk has been the leader and superstar for this team as long as i can remember and we've lost and had some of the most shocking/disappointing losses in NBA history. He's not Tim Duncan, he's not Kobe Bryant, he hasn't willed this team to a chip like he should have during that finals run, so why should he make all of these demands and "keep his options open" like he deserves better? Wade was surrounded by guys like Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Old Mourning, and somewhat old Shaq. Are you telling me that was better than JET, Howard, Harris, Stackhouse etc? Hell no, but why don't we have a chip right now? It's because Dirk came up short.

Wow.

Spurred1 · 05-10-2010, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCmasta

Dirk has been the leader and superstar for this team as long as i can remember and we've lost and had some of the most shocking/disappointing losses in NBA history. He's not Tim Duncan, he's not Kobe Bryant, he hasn't willed this team to a chip like he should have during that finals run, so why should he make all of these demands and "keep his options open" like he deserves better? Wade was surrounded by guys like Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Old Mourning, and somewhat old Shaq. Are you telling me that was better than JET, Howard, Harris, Stackhouse etc? Hell no, but why don't we have a chip right now? It's because Dirk came up short.

No, actually it is because the whole team came up short. I was under the impression that basketball is a team sport. But looks like I was mistaken. Thank God you set me straight.
Finley, then Nash served as the leaders of the team for a number of years. Dirk pretty much became the leader once Nash left. He was the leader when they actually got to the Finals.
This past postseason result isn't solely Dirk's fault. Does he deserve some blame? Sure, but Dirk, Butler, and Roddy showed up while Jet laid another postseason turd, Marion missed bunnies, and Damp managed to not make one single field goal all series. Kidd was essentially absent all series and RC experimented with horrific rotations. Guess Jet bricking away while Roddy should have played is Dirk's fault, too-right?
He hasn't made any demands and simply stated he was keeping his options open which can mean any number of things.
Placing all the blame on one specific person is ridiculous.

clutch#41 · 05-10-2010, 12:17 AM

agree with this guy ^ 100%

clutch#41 · 05-10-2010, 01:25 AM

what if dirk opts out and he is "willing to do whatever to win a championship here" and takes a paycut to like 2 years for 30mil or so...would that free up cap space to possibly sign joe johnson or a dwade?? then still having that damp chip in his pocket??
or am i on too much hydrocodeine??? hahaha

bernardos70 · 05-10-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

what if dirk opts out and he is "willing to do whatever to win a championship here" and takes a paycut to like 2 years for 30mil or so...would that free up cap space to possibly sign joe johnson or a dwade?? then still having that damp chip in his pocket??
or am i on too much hydrocodeine??? hahaha

We're still over the cap, it doesn't really matter I don't think. Even factoring in this hypothetical pay cut by Dirk.

grndmstr_c · 05-10-2010, 04:38 PM

It looks to me like Chicago could renounce some of their free agents (or whatever the technical maneuver is called) and have enough cash to sign one of the top free agents outright. Under those circumstances I can see them having some appeal for Wade. I don't see Noah as much of a draw, but a big 3 of Rose/Wade/Deng would be good. Not as good as a Dirk/Wade duo, mind you...

Any trade scenarios would likely see Deng headed to Miami, I'd think, and that would deflate Chicago's potential contender status.

Kidd Karma · 05-10-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

It looks to me like Chicago could renounce some of their free agents (or whatever the technical maneuver is called) and have enough cash to sign one of the top free agents outright. Under those circumstances I can see them having some appeal for Wade. I don't see Noah as much of a draw, but a big 3 of Rose/Wade/Deng would be good. Not as good as a Dirk/Wade duo, mind you...

Any trade scenarios would likely see Deng headed to Miami, I'd think, and that would deflate Chicago's potential contender status.

Chicago is home for DWade. Chicago cleared cap space to make a run at him. Don't think Rose nor Deng would reach Dirk status, but if it's a comparable situation, Chicago does have a larger window, but Deng nor Rose has proven themselves in the postseason....that and state taxes.

BGMaverick9 · 05-10-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

It looks to me like Chicago could renounce some of their free agents (or whatever the technical maneuver is called) and have enough cash to sign one of the top free agents outright. Under those circumstances I can see them having some appeal for Wade. I don't see Noah as much of a draw, but a big 3 of Rose/Wade/Deng would be good. Not as good as a Dirk/Wade duo, mind you...

Any trade scenarios would likely see Deng headed to Miami, I'd think, and that would deflate Chicago's potential contender status.

They've got talent, Taj Gibson proved to be a great rebounder as a rookie and he'll get better on developing on the offensive end. Noah isn't a "draw" but the kid is talented. People weren't sure if his style would translate to the NBA and it does. He had a 20/20 game in the playoffs, so he can play on the big stage.

I don't think Deng is really considered a major piece in the future for the Bulls. Honestly it's Rose and Noah. If you've got the PG and the center locked up, those are the two spots that are hard to lock down and they've got it.

grndmstr_c · 05-10-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They've got talent, Taj Gibson proved to be a great rebounder as a rookie and he'll get better on developing on the offensive end. Noah isn't a "draw" but the kid is talented. People weren't sure if his style would translate to the NBA and it does. He had a 20/20 game in the playoffs, so he can play on the big stage.

I don't think Deng is really considered a major piece in the future for the Bulls. Honestly it's Rose and Noah. If you've got the PG and the center locked up, those are the two spots that are hard to lock down and they've got it.

I guess all I can say is that if I'm Wade and the Bulls' best on-court selling point after Rose is Noah, I'd rather go to Dallas to play with Dirk.

BGMaverick9 · 05-10-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I guess all I can say is that if I'm Wade and the Bulls' best on-court selling point after Rose is Noah, I'd rather go to Dallas to play with Dirk.

It's not always gonna be about just on-court selling points. It's a guy who has admitted his loves fashion and weather can be a factor on his free agent placement. Really...weather...
Chicago being his hometown could easily play a factor. Rose and being home could be a factor enough to sway him.

Underdog · 05-10-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Chicago being his hometown could easily play a factor.

Ask LeBron how that's working out...

(there's a good chance I'll feast on crow, but my statement stands 100% true until proven otherwise!)