Vista + Windows 7 discussion - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ocelot_ark · 01-25-2007, 10:07 AM

Well, Microsoft Vista is becoming readily available these days. I just received a copy yesterday but haven't installed it yet. Why? I'm scared! This article (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html) pretty much makes me want to wait until the first service pack comes out. I doubt they'll disable any of this, but perhaps consumer outcry will force them to.

Anyway, what are everyone's thoughts? Anyone up and running on Vista care to comment on some of these DRM issues?

capitalcity · 01-25-2007, 10:18 AM

Usually Lurkin · 01-25-2007, 10:28 AM

I'll wait a while.
Whether it's mac or windows, I can't see why anyone wants to be on that bleeding edge of brand new OS that consists of mostly crashed computers and frustration.

Flacolaco · 01-25-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Well, Microsoft Vista is becoming readily available these days. I just received a copy yesterday but haven't installed it yet. Why? I'm scared! This article (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html) pretty much makes me want to wait until the first service pack comes out. I doubt they'll disable any of this, but perhaps consumer outcry will force them to.

Anyway, what are everyone's thoughts? Anyone up and running on Vista care to comment on some of these DRM issues?

Please elaborate on "I receieved a copy yesterday"

(is there a Vista fairy or something?)

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 10:50 AM

For home use there is only one viable option for true technology freedom. And it's not named Windows....

*cough*Linux*cough*

jthig32 · 01-25-2007, 10:52 AM

That is a depressing article. I'm so, so tired of DRM.

That section about open source hardware is especially disconcerting.

As far as whether I'd use it, I'm not interested in being a final stage Beta tester, at least not with an OS.

I'll wait for the first SP, I think.

jthig32 · 01-25-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalcity

I'm assuming you didn't actually read the article. I'm not sure you can come up with an obnoxious apple comment when Vista users are complaining about DRM. DRM is reason #2 to stay away from Apple products, with price being #1.

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 11:02 AM

I'm testing it for my work.

But my testing doesn't involve entertainment though.

For business use it's got alot of desirable plusses that will further save the common user from themselves. It's also got, by default, alot of annoying things as well (especially if you work in IT).

jthig32 · 01-25-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

I'm testing it for my work.

But my testing doesn't involve entertainment though.

For business use it's got alot of desirable plusses that will further save the common user from themselves. It's also got, by default, alot of annoying things as well (especially if you work in IT).

I assume it keeps moving everything up to higher and higher levels, more wizards to set things up rather than forms to enter stuff into.

As long as that stuff can be turned off I'm fine with it. As long as I can keep turning my Control Panel to the classic look, I'll live.

kg_veteran · 01-25-2007, 11:27 AM

It's really distressing to see Microsoft viewing itself as some sort of DRM police.

That's not their job.

ocelot_ark · 01-25-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Please elaborate on "I receieved a copy yesterday"

(is there a Vista fairy or something?)

Microsoft had an online seminar thing a couple of months back. I watched 3, one hour webcasts. As a reward, they sent me a copy of vista business. If I feel like paying the taxes, I can also get a copy of office 2007.

As for linux, I've never used it. I'm sure it's a great product, but I don't really have the time to spend messing with setting something up. Is it incredibly difficult?

I'm thinking about getting another hard drive and just going dual boot. Maybe I can throw on a linux partition and play with it too. I'll end up with a triple boot? Look out!

vjz · 01-25-2007, 12:28 PM

I've been on Vista and Office 2007 since the Beta. Vista's good, but Office is awesome.

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Microsoft had an online seminar thing a couple of months back. I watched 3, one hour webcasts. As a reward, they sent me a copy of vista business. If I feel like paying the taxes, I can also get a copy of office 2007.

As for linux, I've never used it. I'm sure it's a great product, but I don't really have the time to spend messing with setting something up. Is it incredibly difficult?

I'm thinking about getting another hard drive and just going dual boot. Maybe I can throw on a linux partition and play with it too. I'll end up with a triple boot? Look out!

Use a virtual machine instead.... forget the dual boot. It will allow you to get familiar with the OS without committing lots of disk space.

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjz

I've been on Vista and Office 2007 since the Beta. Vista's good, but Office is awesome.

One Note is pretty spectacular. I've gotten so used to it I don't think I want to ever go back to not having it.

FreakNasty · 01-25-2007, 01:26 PM

At our store, you get a free copy mailed to you if you buy a vista ready computer, im not sure about the vista capable computers.

dude1394 · 01-25-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

It's really distressing to see Microsoft viewing itself as some sort of DRM police.

That's not their job.

They are trying to tie into content providers with vista I would imagine. If they make it seamless for providers to provide content on Vista then all the good for them.

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 01:46 PM

kg.... It's the industry that is driving this, not Microsoft. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread it's not a new idea. Media Player under XP and Windows 2000 supported DRM (it was somewhat optional, but I digress).

Microsoft is in a lose-lose situation. If they don't support DRM while other OS'es do it opens up avenues for law-suits, public ridicule, etc. Vista is introducing some sneaky practices for licensing of the Vista OS that will combat alot of the pirated Windows installs in the world... heck even for businesses where in the past a Select customer under XP would get a Volume License key for use and any installation using that key (and the Volume License version of the install media) would not have to go through the activation headaches that other customers would. This, obviously, led to alot of pirated versions of XP Pro in the world. That is no longer the case with Vista.... Had they implemented their new licensing model and did nothing to protect the digital rights of other companies... well you are the lawyer but it would seem to me that in a world where DRM is very capable yet ignored, if you give the customer tools to be able to do illegal things without attempting protection of the copyrighted media you might be opening up yourself to... if not lawsuits at the very least public ridicule and further bashing of your brand.

Also, on this article that was posted alot of assumptions are being made regarding Hi Def and their use. I wouldn't put alot of stock in this article.

u2sarajevo · 01-25-2007, 04:46 PM

Anyone interested in hearing one of the IT Security worlds respected members takes on this.... go here:

http://www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htm#75

u2sarajevo · 01-30-2007, 05:57 PM

Bill Gates on the Daily Show

I have decided to upgrade my home computer this weekend. I went out at lunch and got Vista Ultimate. I'll let you know how the upgrade goes....

Although it won't be an upgrade, because I am going to just wipe the drive and start over with Vista.

Drbio · 01-30-2007, 08:12 PM

Vista $5
Office $10

I love our IT guys. I think I might just take the plunge.

Male30Dan · 02-03-2007, 12:08 AM

I just loaded Vista Ultimate on my home PC and have been playing with it for about 2 hours. It is pretty nice but will take some getting used to. I played with it for just a little bit on a beta box, but not to this extent. Weird issue when I first tried to install it fresh in which I had to unplug my 200GB SATA drive on SATA-1 and just run my 80GB SATA drive on SATA-0 to actually get Vista to install. Luckily I had another PC to google that error to find that fix, but man, that was strange. After installing I plugged the second drive back in and it worked like a charm.

Editing the Hosts and LMHosts files were also fun after joining our corporate domain, (open Notepad AS ADMINSTRATOR and then open the file and you can save). Fun stuff.

Drbio · 02-03-2007, 12:40 AM

Main benefits? Hinderances?

Male30Dan · 02-03-2007, 12:49 AM

Well, for an End-User without a lot of security know-how, it is definitly more secure out of the box. It has a lot of stuff disabled that would typically be enabled or easily opened. In general, (despite any of the available hacks that any OS has upon the first release), it looks to be a MUCH more secure OS. The only hinderances that I can see right now is just the learning curve. It is definitely a bit different than previous version of Windows. The majority of the core components are still there, but just to assign a static IP took roughly 4 more clicks than it should have or would have with XP. I am just complaining about nothing right now. There are many more benefits that I like also from first glance, but I will elaborate after a week or so of heavy chugging. The look and feel is fantastic though.

Drbio · 02-03-2007, 12:52 AM

Looking forward to your review.

Male30Dan · 02-06-2007, 08:07 PM

Check it out!

Not too shabby!!!

The only thing holding me back is my 3.2GHz CPU!

ocelot_ark · 02-25-2007, 06:54 PM

Well, I've been playing with it about 3 weeks now. It's growing on me, that's for sure.

Vista's release also happened to coincide with my upgrade pattern (every 2 years or so). Spent odd hours putting together my new PC this weekend. Thing is smoking. I've got an E6300 (1.86ghz) overclocked to 2.8ghz using air cooling and the stock heatsink fan. Can't wait to see how fast I can get this with a really good HSF.

MavsX · 02-25-2007, 09:36 PM

what do those numbers mean? please explain?

u2sarajevo · 02-25-2007, 09:58 PM

Anyone with children that you are worried might be doing things you would not approve of on the internet MUST get Vista now. Talk about spy power. The parental controls are worth the price of admission.

You can set different controls on a user by user basis. The control is so granular it's amazing. For each user account you can even set allowed or blocked lists of sites... in addition you can utilize the rated sites system to disallow specific things (like pornography, bomb making, mature content, etc.). Each user account can have different settings.

Or, if you really want to show the trust.... just allow anything. No problem, because Vista will keep track of whatever websites are visited, who they IM'ed, what e-mails were sent... all done up nicely in a parental control report.

And if you set the site rating system, or block specific websites and your child is doing research but needs some information that is on a site that's blocked there are two ways you can approve the content... 1st, when the child goes to a blocked site they are given the option to "ask permission" to get access by sending a note to an administrator. Then the next time you logon (you being the administrator) you will be notified with the request (and if the child bothered to fill out the reasons you can read those). Then if you want to allow it with the press of a button it is done.

In the reports, the websites are broken out by sites blocked and sites allowed... while searching through the blocked sites you notice a specific page that you think that child should have access to, just highlight it and click the "allow site for this user" button and the next time they try they won't get blocked.

Phenomenal feature of Vista... and kudo's to Microsoft.

Also, because I know you might be thinking this, the blocked sites is not browser specific. Sites will be blocked for internet destroyer, firefox, opera, whatever.....

mqywaaah · 02-26-2007, 01:54 AM

Noooooooo!!!

u2sarajevo · 02-26-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

Noooooooo!!!

Spoken like the child of some parents that should invest in Vista.

MavsX · 02-26-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Spoken like the child of some parents that should invest in Vista.

Everything you just talked about seems like its oriented towards a soho, those things to apply to say an enterprise set up?, using active directory? Anything differences on those fronts you noticed?

u2sarajevo · 02-27-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

Everything you just talked about seems like its oriented towards a soho, those things to apply to say an enterprise set up?, using active directory? Anything differences on those fronts you noticed?

Those things would not be needed in an enterprise as long as you have a competent IT department and a viable infrastructure. I haven't a clue whether a corporation could take advantage of the parental controls to track or block websites but it sounds reasonable to assume that is possible. I don't think the parental controls are a part of the Vista Business or Enterprise versions though.

WraithXx · 02-27-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Anyone with children that you are worried might be doing things you would not approve of on the internet MUST get Vista now. Talk about spy power. The parental controls are worth the price of admission.

You can set different controls on a user by user basis. The control is so granular it's amazing. For each user account you can even set allowed or blocked lists of sites... in addition you can utilize the rated sites system to disallow specific things (like pornography, bomb making, mature content, etc.). Each user account can have different settings.

Or, if you really want to show the trust.... just allow anything. No problem, because Vista will keep track of whatever websites are visited, who they IM'ed, what e-mails were sent... all done up nicely in a parental control report.

And if you set the site rating system, or block specific websites and your child is doing research but needs some information that is on a site that's blocked there are two ways you can approve the content... 1st, when the child goes to a blocked site they are given the option to "ask permission" to get access by sending a note to an administrator. Then the next time you logon (you being the administrator) you will be notified with the request (and if the child bothered to fill out the reasons you can read those). Then if you want to allow it with the press of a button it is done.

In the reports, the websites are broken out by sites blocked and sites allowed... while searching through the blocked sites you notice a specific page that you think that child should have access to, just highlight it and click the "allow site for this user" button and the next time they try they won't get blocked.

Phenomenal feature of Vista... and kudo's to Microsoft.

Also, because I know you might be thinking this, the blocked sites is not browser specific. Sites will be blocked for internet destroyer, firefox, opera, whatever.....

Thank God that Vista wasn't around when I was younger!!

Male30Dan · 02-27-2007, 04:09 PM

You didn't already have a superb firewall with a content filtering service at home U2???

Tisk tisk!

u2sarajevo · 02-27-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male23Dan

You didn't already have a superb firewall with a content filtering service at home U2???

Tisk tisk!

Sure do... ISA server 2006. I was giving general information to parents that might benefit from the parental controls in Vista.

Male30Dan · 02-27-2007, 06:29 PM

Gotcha!

u2sarajevo · 02-27-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male23Dan

Gotcha!

- You know how to turn the screws of a security conscious engineer.

fluid.forty.one · 03-05-2007, 02:19 PM

Installing vista right now

fluid.forty.one · 03-05-2007, 06:53 PM

it's pretty slick

MavsX · 03-05-2007, 08:59 PM

im thinking of buying myself an asa 5505