2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Link?

I'm sure you found it by now, but he basically said Luka needs to pass the ball more to his teammates. With a straight fucking face...

Fire that dumb dumb.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm sure you found it by now, but he basically said Luka needs to pass the ball more to his teammates. With a straight fucking face...

Fire that dumb dumb.

Yea. It's finger pointing at the only success he has had in quite a while. Sad.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea. It's finger pointing at the only success he has had in quite a while. Sad.

Is it? Isn't what he said...true? Not that Luka wasn't trying to do that...but history pretty much clearly demonstrates that even someone as talented as Luka can't win on his own. That wasn't finger pointing...it was coaching. What's more, I think Luka would agree. He can't win it by himself.

Now, the other side of that is...those he passes to have to hit their shots. in a nutshell, in the games we won, they did, and in the games we lost, they didn't.

KP, assuming he is still here, needs to get more involved. That seems to be a joint responsibility. Some on Luka, some on KP, and some (maybe most?) on RC. I find the strategy they used with him questionable...were things really that different than when these two teams played last year, and KP was a major factor? Aside from that, when he's on the perimeter, it seems he seldom receives the ball, even though he is probably our best 3 point shooter. Why was that? Aside from that, KP needs to move more without the ball, and make himself more available. I did see that happening more in game 7, but not enough.

It could be that Luka wasn't passing to him because that was seldom where the double teams were coming from. So, someone else was usually more open. BUT KP could just shoot over whoever was guarding him, as he did several times.

I'm assuming there aren't going to be huge changes in the roster for next year. However, even if there is, I'm not sure that changes this: RC needs to figure out how to make all this work, and get the players to buy into it, and execute it. If he can't, then maybe that's the roster change that is needed.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Is it? Isn't what he said...true? Not that Luka wasn't trying to do that...but history pretty much clearly demonstrates that even someone as talented as Luka can't win on his own. That wasn't finger pointing...it was coaching. What's more, I think Luka would agree. He can't win it by himself.

Now, the other side of that is...those he passes to have to hit their shots. in a nutshell, in the games we won, they did, and in the games we lost, they didn't.

KP, assuming he is still here, needs to get more involved. That seems to be a joint responsibility. Some on Luka, some on KP, and some (maybe most?) on RC. I find the strategy they used with him questionable...were things really that different than when these two teams played last year, and KP was a major factor? Aside from that, when he's on the perimeter, it seems he seldom receives the ball, even though he is probably our best 3 point shooter. Why was that? Aside from that, KP needs to move more without the ball, and make himself more available. I did see that happening more in game 7, but not enough.

It could be that Luka wasn't passing to him because that was seldom where the double teams were coming from. So, someone else was usually more open. BUT KP could just shoot over whoever was guarding him, as he did several times.

I'm assuming there aren't going to be huge changes in the roster for next year. However, even if there is, I'm not sure that changes this: RC needs to figure out how to make all this work, and get the players to buy into it, and execute it. If he can't, then maybe that's the roster change that is needed.

Iniitally, I was torn because on one had you look up at the box score and you see 10+ assists from Luka and its like...alright what else do you want?

BUt at the same time, when you dominate the ball ALL GAME and you play the whole game for the most part.....its not difficult to get to 10 assists.

I don't blame Luka for this I blame Carlisle. This offense is just not sustainable . Luka is gassed by the time the 4th quarter comes around.

By no means am I blaming Luka but this offense does need to regulate more to guys like Hardaway and KP.....I think Brunson should also get more playing time with him running the offense.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Is it? Isn't what he said...true? Not that Luka wasn't trying to do that...but history pretty much clearly demonstrates that even someone as talented as Luka can't win on his own. That wasn't finger pointing...it was coaching. What's more, I think Luka would agree. He can't win it by himself.

Now, the other side of that is...those he passes to have to hit their shots. in a nutshell, in the games we won, they did, and in the games we lost, they didn't.

KP, assuming he is still here, needs to get more involved. That seems to be a joint responsibility. Some on Luka, some on KP, and some (maybe most?) on RC. I find the strategy they used with him questionable...were things really that different than when these two teams played last year, and KP was a major factor? Aside from that, when he's on the perimeter, it seems he seldom receives the ball, even though he is probably our best 3 point shooter. Why was that? Aside from that, KP needs to move more without the ball, and make himself more available. I did see that happening more in game 7, but not enough.

It could be that Luka wasn't passing to him because that was seldom where the double teams were coming from. So, someone else was usually more open. BUT KP could just shoot over whoever was guarding him, as he did several times.

I'm assuming there aren't going to be huge changes in the roster for next year. However, even if there is, I'm not sure that changes this: RC needs to figure out how to make all this work, and get the players to buy into it, and execute it. If he can't, then maybe that's the roster change that is needed.

The "other side of this" makes the argument completely moot. The ONLY guy who needed the ball more was KP who was also terrible. If you shoot 0-5 from three, then would you keep passing that guy the ball? We clearly need to integrate KP into the system better, but passing him the ball wasn't the problem.

The rest of the guys you can't trust to save your life. Luka passing them the ball doesn't do any good if they aren't hitting their shots. Pretty much all of the B squad gets colder than the arctic at any given time, and I'm not sure what fix there is other than getting better teammates.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The "other side of this" makes the argument completely moot. The ONLY guy who needed the ball more was KP who was also terrible. If you shoot 0-5 from three, then would you keep passing that guy the ball? We clearly need to integrate KP into the system better, but passing him the ball wasn't the problem.

The rest of the guys you can't trust to save your life. Luka passing them the ball doesn't do any good if they aren't hitting their shots. Pretty much all of the B squad gets colder than the arctic at any given time, and I'm not sure what fix there is other than getting better teammates.

KP was god awful.

1) If he gets it at the three-point line, he just shoots it. He's okay at open jumpers but he isn't a sharpshooter. 37.6% in the regular season and 29.6% in the playoffs.
2) If he gets it in the mid/low post, he gets stripped, blocked, or puts up a low % shot. He gets stripped on drives more than any player in the NBA and he doesn't use his height for anything but clearance on jumpers, which again, he's not efficient at. His eFG% on jumpers is mediocre
3) He's decent on oops, but again, doesn't move well without the ball like Powell and often turns it over trying to catch oops.

The dude either puts up a low-percentage jumper or he turns it over. I don't blame Luka one bit for not getting it to him.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The "other side of this" makes the argument completely moot. The ONLY guy who needed the ball more was KP who was also terrible. If you shoot 0-5 from three, then would you keep passing that guy the ball? We clearly need to integrate KP into the system better, but passing him the ball wasn't the problem.

The rest of the guys you can't trust to save your life. Luka passing them the ball doesn't do any good if they aren't hitting their shots. Pretty much all of the B squad gets colder than the arctic at any given time, and I'm not sure what fix there is other than getting better teammates.

I don't think it does. When your teammates aren't hitting, you need to work on getting them more confident. Can't win it on your own. Look at Kobe after Shaq left...same concern. He admitted he didn't pass the ball because his bad shot was better than his teammates good shots, at least in his mind. How did LA do during that period? They didn't win squat, often missing the playoffs. Look at Game 7. Was this issue that Luka wasn't shooting enough?? No. Same criticism was made of Harden, who also didn't ultimately win anything, despite having a fair supporting cast.

He has BY FAR the highest ball dominance of any player in the NBA, probably ever. The other high ball dominant players were around 8.5 minutes per game or so...Luka was about 11.5. FAR higher than anyone else. At best, this gets him tired at the end of games. At worst, it does that plus never lets anyone else get in rhythm.

Also, everyone needs to understand that 'getting better teammates' is likely a 3 or more year process. It's not easy to simply upgrade your roster everywhere. First, it takes time just to get the players, then some don't fit, and you need new ones...and even when you get a good mix it takes 1+ years for them to gel together. Is that really what everyone wants...3 years or so before getting anywhere?

[tap2390]

Mavs were fourth in the league in generating open looks. Luka passing the ball isn't the issue. Other teams have players with similar usage rates and are true contenders (76ers & Embiid; Bucks & Giannis).

Our biggest issue is pretty clear. We don't generate easy shots at the rim. We take way too many threes despite not having elite shooters. We don't have a roll man because KP isn't comfortable in the paint and Powell isn't the same player he was pre-achilles.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Mavs were fourth in the league in generating open looks. Luka passing the ball isn't the issue. Other teams have players with similar usage rates and are true contenders (76ers & Embiid; Bucks & Giannis).

Our biggest issue is pretty clear. We don't generate easy shots at the rim. We take way too many threes despite not having elite shooters. We don't have a roll man because KP isn't comfortable in the paint and Powell isn't the same player he was pre-achilles.

But what type of open looks are these players getting? I don't say that as a knock to Luka but if they are low percentage shots then what good are they?

It seems like the only thing this offense is good for is racking up stats for Luka. I just don't know how this is a winning formula. I said the same thing about a James Harden lead team.

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Mavs were fourth in the league in generating open looks. Luka passing the ball isn't the issue. Other teams have players with similar usage rates and are true contenders (76ers & Embiid; Bucks & Giannis).

Our biggest issue is pretty clear. We don't generate easy shots at the rim. We take way too many threes despite not having elite shooters. We don't have a roll man because KP isn't comfortable in the paint and Powell isn't the same player he was pre-achilles.

76ers have Curry & Green shooting threes. Mavs only have THJ.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Mavs were fourth in the league in generating open looks. Luka passing the ball isn't the issue. Other teams have players with similar usage rates and are true contenders (76ers & Embiid; Bucks & Giannis).

Agree with the first part, but the last part isn't true. No one else is even close in terms of usage rate. Which then can impact the ability of others to get into a rhythm. Recall the game in which he set the NBA record (all time) for percentage of points accounted for via scoring or assists. He not only does he have the ball in his hands every single possession (Embid and Giannis don't)...he keeps it in his hands longer than other players, as well. You would need to look at usage rates of other PG's, especially those considered high usage (Lillard, Harden, etc), and he is MUCH higher than any of those as well.

Our biggest issue is pretty clear. We don't generate easy shots at the rim. We take way too many threes despite not having elite shooters. We don't have a roll man because KP isn't comfortable in the paint and Powell isn't the same player he was pre-achilles.

Yep, definitely agree with this. Given that I don't think we are going to have a massive roster turn-over, RC has his work cut out for him. The others aren't going to suddenly become able to do that on their own, so he has to work on them getting to the rim more aggressively without the ball (said roll game, but that's not the only way). Even just getting into position for mid range shots rather than 3's. Yes, the game is moving towards 3's (well, has moved, not moving), but that doesn't mean that's what you should do, even if you're not good at it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

I don't think it does. When your teammates aren't hitting, you need to work on getting them more confident. Can't win it on your own. Look at Kobe after Shaq left...same concern. He admitted he didn't pass the ball because his bad shot was better than his teammates good shots, at least in his mind. How did LA do during that period? They didn't win squat, often missing the playoffs. Look at Game 7. Was this issue that Luka wasn't shooting enough?? No. Same criticism was made of Harden, who also didn't ultimately win anything, despite having a fair supporting cast.

He has BY FAR the highest ball dominance of any player in the NBA, probably ever. The other high ball dominant players were around 8.5 minutes per game or so...Luka was about 11.5. FAR higher than anyone else. At best, this gets him tired at the end of games. At worst, it does that plus never lets anyone else get in rhythm.

Also, everyone needs to understand that 'getting better teammates' is likely a 3 or more year process. It's not easy to simply upgrade your roster everywhere. First, it takes time just to get the players, then some don't fit, and you need new ones...and even when you get a good mix it takes 1+ years for them to gel together. Is that really what everyone wants...3 years or so before getting anywhere?

Uhhh you must have missed that point in Kobe's career when he won two rings with Pau Gasol as his second best player.

And I still disagree about getting teammates better. This team is maxed out and waaaay overachieved minus KP. The only B squad guy on the roster I see getting better is Brunson and even he was flat during most of the playoffs. That is if you don't count the rookies who don't play.

But the real point that people miss about Luka is that his scoring is actually his greatest asset. He is a great passer, but he can score with the best of them. The team needed it. My god, we brought the second most talented team in the league to their knees all because of Luka. Maddening that people/media are just basically making shit up now to fit their narrative.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Uhhh you must have missed that point in Kobe's career when he won two rings with Pau Gasol as his second best player.

And I still disagree about getting teammates better. This team is maxed out and waaaay overachieved minus KP. The only B squad guy on the roster I see getting better is Brunson and even he was flat during most of the playoffs. That is if you don't count the rookies who don't play.

But the real point that people miss about Luka is that his scoring is actually his greatest asset. He is a great passer, but he can score with the best of them. The team needed it. My god, we brought the second most talented team in the league to their knees all because of Luka. Maddening that people/media are just basically making shit up now to fit their narrative.

So let me ask you.....do you think the only way Luka can score is if he has the ball in his hands?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

I don't think it does. When your teammates aren't hitting, you need to work on getting them more confident. Can't win it on your own. Look at Kobe after Shaq left...same concern. He admitted he didn't pass the ball because his bad shot was better than his teammates good shots, at least in his mind. How did LA do during that period? They didn't win squat, often missing the playoffs. Look at Game 7. Was this issue that Luka wasn't shooting enough?? No. Same criticism was made of Harden, who also didn't ultimately win anything, despite having a fair supporting cast.

He has BY FAR the highest ball dominance of any player in the NBA, probably ever. The other high ball dominant players were around 8.5 minutes per game or so...Luka was about 11.5. FAR higher than anyone else. At best, this gets him tired at the end of games. At worst, it does that plus never lets anyone else get in rhythm.

Also, everyone needs to understand that 'getting better teammates' is likely a 3 or more year process. It's not easy to simply upgrade your roster everywhere. First, it takes time just to get the players, then some don't fit, and you need new ones...and even when you get a good mix it takes 1+ years for them to gel together. Is that really what everyone wants...3 years or so before getting anywhere?

You are missing the timing point then.. The clock should have started clicking when the Mavs truly saw what they had in Luka which was January 2019 at the latest. We are going into year 3 of knowing Luka is a generational superstar and there is apparently no plan to upgrade roster based on Donnie's comments. People will get better and Luka will learn to use the chess pieces was his comment. Donnie needs to go and Mavs fans need to stop being in denial.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Is it? Isn't what he said...true? Not that Luka wasn't trying to do that...but history pretty much clearly demonstrates that even someone as talented as Luka can't win on his own. That wasn't finger pointing...it was coaching. What's more, I think Luka would agree. He can't win it by himself.

Now, the other side of that is...those he passes to have to hit their shots. in a nutshell, in the games we won, they did, and in the games we lost, they didn't.

KP, assuming he is still here, needs to get more involved. That seems to be a joint responsibility. Some on Luka, some on KP, and some (maybe most?) on RC. I find the strategy they used with him questionable...were things really that different than when these two teams played last year, and KP was a major factor? Aside from that, when he's on the perimeter, it seems he seldom receives the ball, even though he is probably our best 3 point shooter. Why was that? Aside from that, KP needs to move more without the ball, and make himself more available. I did see that happening more in game 7, but not enough.

It could be that Luka wasn't passing to him because that was seldom where the double teams were coming from. So, someone else was usually more open. BUT KP could just shoot over whoever was guarding him, as he did several times.

I'm assuming there aren't going to be huge changes in the roster for next year. However, even if there is, I'm not sure that changes this: RC needs to figure out how to make all this work, and get the players to buy into it, and execute it. If he can't, then maybe that's the roster change that is needed.

No. I don't think there is much truth to Dinnies drivel. Luka has high usage because NO ONE else can create. No one else in the SLU is even capable of penetration. Another issue is...they can't defend either! That's a recipe for mediocrity when you have a generational talent, it's a recipe for disaster when you have mediocre talent.

Dead on about KP needing to do more and be more involved and that's what a top 5 coach figures out even if it means you can't rigidly run the offense you love. If it's not good for the team overall to get the playing at the highest level they're capable of, then trade the guy (kp) who doesn't fit it or adjust it the offense scheme. No?

I think it's just Donnie spouting more bullshit because that's what he does. We watch this team closely. Every single game. Casuals might buy into that, but come on. At face value sure everyone could get better and Luka too. Free throws and turnovers. I just don't think anyone really sees Donnie in a position to make any comment that can be seen as negative toward Luka. The kid strapped this mediocre team on his back and almost carried us past a contender. The getting others more involved part should have been directed at Rick, not Luka.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Luka has high usage because NO ONE else can create.

People focus so hard on our lack of defense and rebounding when I think shot creation/ball handling/playmaking is actually our biggest weakness.

If ANYTHING Luka needs someone else to take the load...not the opposite as sir Donnie Don Don has suggested.

We don't need Luka to pass more. We need another playmaker or two.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

People focus so hard on our lack of defense and rebounding when I think shot creation/ball handling/playmaking is actually our biggest weakness.

If ANYTHING Luka needs someone else to take the load...not the opposite as sir Donnie Don Don has suggested.

We don't need Luka to pass more. We need another playmaker or two.

Mavs had to play zone in the nba playoffs because they can’t guard a soul. I think defense is the main weakness at this point in time. But we absolutely need another creator or two. A two way athletic player would be a godsend. Luka usage rate in the playoffs was an insane 39%