Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

[sefant77]

What annoys me the most about Gooden and Thomas that they are:

- often in chucking mode
- no real team players
- both play NO defense
- both arent quality throw-in for further trades (like younger players), just their contracts
- they come and young hustle guys like Singleton and Hollins are leaving

We have 5 players that can play defense:
Kidd-Ross-Josh-Marion-Damp (Kidd and Damp even need specific opponents to play better defense)

We have WAY too many players that doesnt play d or suck on it:
Terry
Barea
Carroll
Thomas
Gooden
Dirk

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

What annoys me the most about Gooden and Thomas that they are:

- often in chucking mode
- no real team players
- both play NO defense
- both arent quality throw-in for further trades (like younger players), just their contracts
- they come and young hustle guys like Singleton and Hollins are leaving

Guys like Singleton and Hollins which I like are only decent on one end of the court. Once they have defended they may as well hold the ball for 20 seconds and friggen punt it into the stands because they have little to no chance in contributing offensively..at least compared to the latest additions.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Guys like Singleton and Hollins which I like are only decent on one end of the court. Once they have defended they may as well hold the ball for 20 seconds and friggen punt it into the stands because they have little to no chance in contributing offensively..at least compared to the latest additions.

Thats why i wanted a mix:
One of Gooden/Thomas and one of Hollins/Singleton

[Robillion]

Its definitely going to take an actual good acquisition in my eyes.. or lots of time.. to get over the fact that we now have Gooden and Thomas on our team most likely. OUR team.. GOODEN AND TIM THOMAS.

[craggmac]

Ah hell, get over it. Everything is going to be alright. They will probably hardly ever play anyway.

[MavsFanFinley]

I don't hate the Gooden signing. He brings a low post game and rebounding. Not to mention a solid mid range jumper. What I do hate is that he'll be given the chance to beat Dampier for the starting center job with no defense whatsoever.

The Thomas signing I do not get. I just hate it.

I also don't like the fact that they appear willing to let Hollins walk.

[Mavsfan4ever]

With our current line up how does everyone see us ranking in the west?

[quietsavant]

Now would be the perfect time to take advantage of the Bobcats. It seems like they are not exactly having a fire sale, as in letting go of their talent for nothing, but instead making what seems like marginal moves based on the fact that the incoming player as a shorter running contract. I really think a Howard for GWallace would help us in the explosiveness factor. I also think GWal is a better athlete. Though they are both injury prone here and there, neither is exactly a better shooter or shooting guard but Gwal answers one question I hear every sports bar I go to in the metroplex: why are they all shooting? take it to the basket. Jesus says take it to the hole!

[MavsFanFinley]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._daniels_deal/

Pacers and Celtics are looking for a 3rd team in the sign/trade deal for Daniels. Boston is offering up Tony Allen but the Pacers (and apprently no other teams) are jumping at him.

I'd like to see Allen here as a sg option. Plays defense, not the best shooter, but has a way of getting to the basket.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

With our current line up how does everyone see us ranking in the west?

I think Nuggets, Spurs, Blazers and Lakers for sure have better rosters. Better teams? That's yet to be seen. And I guess it depends on what the Jazz do with their roster but as of right now I have the Mavs right about where they were last season. At the end of the contender pack with the Rockets, Jazz, etc. A surprise is going to come out of the West with some contenders taking steps backwards. I'd watch out for the Clippers. They have some solid young guys and may not make the playoffs but 9th or 10th in the West doesn't seem that far fetched.

[purplefrog]

Mavs still have a lot of "clutter" to clean up and if we can believe Donnie there is no major trade looming. So, what kind of housekeeping might the Mavs be thinking of? Imo, they still need a third string center (I'm not counting Dirk; Hollins likely gone) just in case Damp gets in foul trouble (probably never happen, but best to be prepared). One possibility is that if the Bucks are still in salary dump mode they might be interested in trading Gadzuric. Mavs could offer up Peterson, Williams, and Jawai (waive Williams and Jawai) and the Bucks would save about 4M next season. Bucks still have Bogut, Elson, and Kurt Thomas at the 5. Just a thought.

Gotta get the roster down to 15 sooner or later.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I think Nuggets, Spurs, Blazers and Lakers for sure have better rosters. Better teams? That's yet to be seen. And I guess it depends on what the Jazz do with their roster but as of right now I have the Mavs right about where they were last season. At the end of the contender pack with the Rockets, Jazz, etc. A surprise is going to come out of the West with some contenders taking steps backwards. I'd watch out for the Clippers. They have some solid young guys and may not make the playoffs but 9th or 10th in the West doesn't seem that far fetched.

The Rockets are not going to be anywhere near a contender this coming season.

Also, more generally, I have to disagree with this assessment. I think as it currently stands, only the Lakers and maybe the Spurs have better rosters than the Mavs. The Blazers are next in line. I think the Mavs have passed the Nuggets, although they still present a very tough matchup.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._daniels_deal/

Pacers and Celtics are looking for a 3rd team in the sign/trade deal for Daniels. Boston is offering up Tony Allen but the Pacers (and apprently no other teams) are jumping at him.

I'd like to see Allen here as a sg option. Plays defense, not the best shooter, but has a way of getting to the basket.

I'm not even sure if Marquis is a upgrade over Allen. Stat-wise he is but I always thought the only thing holding Allen back was minutes. Everytime I watch him he's driving to the rack with success. Mid range jumper is decent. I wouldn't want him shooting outside of that range. But his asset is his driving.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The Rockets are not going to be anywhere near a contender this coming season.

Also, more generally, I have to disagree with this assessment. I think as it currently stands, only the Lakers and maybe the Spurs have better rosters than the Mavs. The Blazers are next in line. I think the Mavs have passed the Nuggets, although they still present a very tough matchup.

I give credit to the Rockets for the simple fact they never have T-Mac and Yao Ming and still manage to beat contenders and make it to the post season. Until I see otherwise i'm still gonna put them in the top 8 in the West. Not to mention I really can't think of any other teams that are going to creep up and take their spot. Same goes for the Nuggets. Until I see otherwise they're still a contender and top team in the West. An offseason and training camp with Billups will only make them better. Lakers are of course the champs. With the Spurs I just see that Jefferson signing as being scary. They made it to the post season without Ginobilli and now if he's healthy you have Jefferson as well? Not to mention Mcdyess to play alongside Duncan? I can't recall the last time I saw Duncan play with a 4 or 5 that was as good of a defender as Mcdyess is. Its been awhile. They kept their core in tact. Basically got rid of all the useless guys and replaced them with teams solid rotation players.

Blazers are a tricky one. Its funny you have them outside of the Mavs, Spurs and Lakers. Talent-wise? Maybe I overrate them due to their age but that team is scary. The only thing I thought holding them back was their age and they just got wiser and smarter at the point guard spot with Andre Miller. They're going to be legit contenders at some point. Maybe even the best in the West. Its just a matter of when.

When it comes to the Mavs I like their top 6 players. JET, Dirk, Marion, JET, Kidd and Josh. Its one dimensional players and the lack of players behind the top 6 that worry me. The Mavs were not a Shawn Marion away from contending last season and that's basically what this front office has said this offseason.

[Mavsfan4ever]

I feel we have a better starting five the Denver or Portland plus we have one of the deepest bench's in the west. If we could trade for a decent center I would put us right up there with San Antonio.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

I feel we have a better starting five the Denver or Portland plus we have one of the deepest bench's in the west. If we could trade for a decent center I would put us right up there with San Antonio.

We have one of the deepest bench's in the West? Aside from Jet who's on the bench? I'd probably agree though we have a starting 5 as good as the Nuggets and maybe the Blazers but that would depend on what progression the Blazers take. Because as of right now the Mavs have 1 all star in their lineup. Nuggets may have 2 with Billups and Melo and the Blazers have Roy and maybe Aldridge.

[Mavsfan4ever]

I just had a thought. Cuban is supposed to be in LA this week what if he is meeting in secret with the Clippers to work on a trade? Highly unlikely I know but, it is a nice thought.

[mavErika]

Originally Posted by MavsFanFinley

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._daniels_deal/

Pacers and Celtics are looking for a 3rd team in the sign/trade deal for Daniels. Boston is offering up Tony Allen but the Pacers (and apprently no other teams) are jumping at him.

I'd like to see Allen here as a sg option. Plays defense, not the best shooter, but has a way of getting to the basket.

Usually I'd trust the assesment of a reputable board-member like you are, but I remember reading an article in a Celtics-blog (which was a pretty good read) demanding for our own Quinton Ross as new backup for P.PIerce.
I searched for it again and here's the link: http://celticshub.com/2009/06/16/you...-quinton-ross/

One of the writers arguments for their need of Q.Ross was that T.Allen's Basketball IQ is too low, so that Doc Rivers couldn't trust him to play for long stretches. It also contains a link to an earlier article from that writer, in which he explains in detail why he ultimately gave up on Tony Allen filling that role(too much detail for me to actually read it, but I think his main problems with TA were "knuckleheadness", bad shooting and injuries).
All that leads to believe that we're better off with Q.Ross, although he's more of a SF, and what else we have at the 2.
Somebody here posted that you can have only that many of these types of players before your team evaporates to five guys on the floor who happen to wear the same jerseys, and I tend to believe that. Right now, we can't be that far away from this point, and that's a little bit frightening.

Here's an example of what his guy meant (his name is Brian Robb)when writing his article about TA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le8rMnL56w8

ok, while we're here, that's the link, so you don't have to search in the first one if interested:
http://celticshub.com/2009/06/04/thr...e-towel-on-ta/

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I give credit to the Rockets for the simple fact they never have T-Mac and Yao Ming and still manage to beat contenders and make it to the post season. Until I see otherwise i'm still gonna put them in the top 8 in the West. Not to mention I really can't think of any other teams that are going to creep up and take their spot. Same goes for the Nuggets. Until I see otherwise they're still a contender and top team in the West. An offseason and training camp with Billups will only make them better. Lakers are of course the champs. With the Spurs I just see that Jefferson signing as being scary. They made it to the post season without Ginobilli and now if he's healthy you have Jefferson as well? Not to mention Mcdyess to play alongside Duncan? I can't recall the last time I saw Duncan play with a 4 or 5 that was as good of a defender as Mcdyess is. Its been awhile. They kept their core in tact. Basically got rid of all the useless guys and replaced them with teams solid rotation players.

Blazers are a tricky one. Its funny you have them outside of the Mavs, Spurs and Lakers. Talent-wise? Maybe I overrate them due to their age but that team is scary. The only thing I thought holding them back was their age and they just got wiser and smarter at the point guard spot with Andre Miller. They're going to be legit contenders at some point. Maybe even the best in the West. Its just a matter of when.

When it comes to the Mavs I like their top 6 players. JET, Dirk, Marion, JET, Kidd and Josh. Its one dimensional players and the lack of players behind the top 6 that worry me. The Mavs were not a Shawn Marion away from contending last season and that's basically what this front office has said this offseason.

I actually think the Mavs were a Shawn Marion away from contending last season. I think the Mavs come exceptionally close to beating Denver with Marion, which puts them against the Lakers (the only team I feel would have been the Mavs no matter what last year).

This year, obviously the Spurs have improved, although I'm hesitant to say how much. I honestly don't believe McD brings much more than KT did, although McD is a better player overall. Jefferson is obviously a great pickup, but I think Marion is just as good of a pickup, if not better. The way I see it, the Mavs crushed the Spurs without Manu in the playoffs. Add Manu, it's probably a 7-gamer that goes either way. Add Marion and RJ, respectively, and it's still just as even. I don't know if guys like McD/Gooden/etc. make much of a difference after that.

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by mavErika

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le8rMnL56w8

That's about as knuckleheaded as it gets right there...
He didn't even make the dunk, ha

[sefant77]

The damn Hornets are now closer to us and they have a bench now

Paul-Butler-Posey-West-Okafor is very solid.

[EricaLubarsky]

What ever happened to the Nick Van Exel argument. That group-thought was clustered everywhere on the D-M.com board a few years ago.

The argument was like this:
a) We have dirk and a winning team
b) We aquire maligned players with talent for pennies on the dollar
c) They find new life with the Mavs and we get good talent on the cheap.

Seemed like everybody that fell into DNPs or fell into ESPN's dumpster list was one of those magic guys that could reinvent themselves in Dallas. Suddenly this board thinks the complete opposite and somehow thinks we can put together a championship roster with guys that are at the peak of their ability and league popularity. I think Donnie made a very sound argument in defense of Gooden (see DB.com), and Dirno made a hell of a nice argument for Thomas in the Thomas thread. I dont know, its just strange how far the pendulum has swung.

[Nowitzki4President]

How did we pay for TT? The rest of the MLE?

This is fantasy, but I just wanted to lay it out, because it looks... well... just fantastic.

If we did the Damp for Okafor trade and re-signed Hollins, we have:

Okafor/Hollins/Gooden
Dirk/Gooden/Thomas
Marion/Ross
Josh/JET/Ross
Kidd/JJB/RoddyB

We'd still have the Buck shot. Man... That's sexy. Time to stop day-dreaming

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think Donnie made a very sound argument in defense of Gooden (see DB.com), and Dirno made a hell of a nice argument for Thomas in the Thomas thread. I dont know, its just strange how far the pendulum has swung.

It really seems to be how you choose to spin it.

For example, if the goals for this offseason were the following:
1) add a borderline all star to compliment the core: Shawn Marion- check.
2) add a center who can score a bit, especially in the post - Gooden-check.
3) add perimeter defenders - Ross, Marion-check.
4) address the deficiency in 3ptFG% - Thomas-check.
5) add a PG who has the potential to guard the likes of Parker, Paul, etc....
Roddy???- not a bad attempt but only time will tell if this a check.

I'm not saying the Mavs have addressed all the deficiencies we saw last year but a case could be made they accomplished many of their goals, albeit with second tier players in many instances.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

How did we pay for TT? The rest of the MLE?

I think I heard it was the remaining 1.3million of our MLE. We still have the 2million BAE to work with, whether we choose to use it or not.

And as Ive conjectured in other threads, I dont think that Hollins has any kind of protection other than right of first refusal-- no Arenas protection (he's third year), no early bird (one year contract), so if Indiana wanted to offer Hollins 2.00million, we'd be unable to match. If they offered him 1.99 million (the BAE), we could match but it would cost us the BAE. Its a strange situation if Im reading the CBA correctly.

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The BAE and what was remaining on the MLE were almost identical, but I'd assume that they used the rest of the MLE.

So we still have the BAE?

A shot at Von Wafer or McCants anyone? We can still talk about it lol

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

It really seems to be how you choose to spin it.

For example, if the goals for this offseason were the following:
1) add a borderline all star to compliment the core: Shawn Marion- check.
2) add a center who can score a bit, especially in the post - Gooden-check.
3) add perimeter defenders - Ross, Marion-check.
4) address the deficiency in 3ptFG% - Thomas-check.
5) add a PG who has the potential to guard the likes of Parker, Paul, etc....
Roddy???- not a bad attempt but only time will tell if this a check.

I'm not saying the Mavs have addressed all the deficiencies we saw last year but a case could be made they accomplished many of their goals, albeit with second tier players in many instances.

That's definitely a level-headed outlook...

(not to mention the upsides of adding Marion as a starter far outweigh the potential downsides of adding Thomas & Gooden to the bench...)

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

What ever happened to the Nick Van Exel argument. That group-thought was clustered everywhere on the D-M.com board a few years ago.

The argument was like this:
a) We have dirk and a winning team
b) We aquire maligned players with talent for pennies on the dollar
c) They find new life with the Mavs and we get good talent on the cheap.

Seemed like everybody that fell into DNPs or fell into ESPN's dumpster list was one of those magic guys that could reinvent themselves in Dallas. Suddenly this board thinks the complete opposite and somehow thinks we can put together a championship roster with guys that are at the peak of their ability and league popularity. I think Donnie made a very sound argument in defense of Gooden (see DB.com), and Dirno made a hell of a nice argument for Thomas in the Thomas thread. I dont know, its just strange how far the pendulum has swung.

Tim Thomas does not have anger issues like NVE. He has motivation issues. He has issues putting in a good day's work on a consistent basis.

That's the difference. I've never shied away from guys that are maybe a little nuts or just general bad dudes. But I want guys that are ready to let it all hang out when it's game time. And Tim Thomas is not that guy.

[SeriousSummer]

I think Tim Thomas is a decent pick up. He fits a narrow niche that the Mavs need and didn't have before. Thomas is the kind of player who usually isn't very good, but once in awhile can go off like a firecracker.

A few times each year there is going to be a game where the Mavs just can't get going and don't get any points on the board. Tim Thomas is for those sorts of games, which the Mavs are going to lose if something dramatic doesn't happen. You put him in and maybe one out of three times he goes off and suddenly the Mavs are back in the game.

Players like him are sort of a Hail Mary, but they will save you a couple of games each year. The only player Dallas had like that last year was J.J. Barea, now the Mavs have two guys that might go off. It gives them double the chances of getting back in the game.

Most of the time, though, Thomas only plays a couple of minutes and doesn't affect the outcome. He gets serious minutes only when the game is out of hand one way or another.

[sike]

This roster is stacked with vet guys...that is so nice come playoff time.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by sefant77

The damn Hornets are now closer to us and they have a bench now

Paul-Butler-Posey-West-Okafor is very solid.

blaw, Butler is garbage defensively and should be a bench player as well as Posey

[Jon Avalon]

Posey is a poser, F*ck him.

[SMC0007]

^, ^^.

BfnS Posey played a nice part in both of the rings he has! Guys aren't on top forever, but he has been to the top. If a poser can win a few rings and contribute nicely doing so, then we could use a few posers.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

So we still have the BAE?

A shot at Von Wafer or McCants anyone? We can still talk about it lol

I think that Quinton Ross will play a greater role that people is anticipating, the guy is a top notch defender with good 3 point range, with JJB, Terry, Gooden, Thomas and Ross coming off the bench I don't see that many shots available for the 2nd Unit.

Howard, Terry, Marion and Ross should eat almost all the SG/SF Time.

[Tokey41]

Thomas isn't the worst 7-9th option we could have... I just don't understand how it's a good idea to grab another forward. I know Gooden will be at center quite a bit but we now have a plethora of decent forwards and no traditional SG.

Depth is nice but I'm just thinking it would be nicer to have a balanced roster. What is the minute distribution going to look like next season? Perhaps this isn't as bad as I think it is.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Thomas isn't the worst 7-9th option we could have... I just don't understand how it's a good idea to grab another forward. I know Gooden will be at center quite a bit but we now have a plethora of decent forwards and no traditional SG.

Depth is nice but I'm just thinking it would be nicer to have a balanced roster. What is the minute distribution going to look like next season? Perhaps this isn't as bad as I think it is.

Well there is still hope with the Buck shot that Fisher helps reaffirm...

"*I believe the Mavs have had meeting after meeting trying to pinpoint the guy worth trading for who is an over-the-top piece who, even with The Buck Shot involved, is worth the long-term-committed money. I believe that’s where the Samuel Dalembert gossip emerged from. And I believe they have not pinpointed that person."

Hey, at least it's something. I really can't believe that the FO would just let Buckner's tradable contract just go to waste without getting another serviceable player.

[Nowitzki4President]

I was talking to a bud of mine and the topic of McCants came up and he said this:

Saw a summer league video where McCants said "Just got a workout in Dallas *disgruntle face, changes topic* yeah man, these young players seem to be pretty good". He was implying that they didn't like him.

It's just my bud saying what he thought the implimecations were of McCants' mannerisms. I'm not saying it's gospel or anything, so take it with a grain of salt.

But from the looks of it, McCants didn't like Dallas.

[Windmill360]

Per Gina Millers' Twitter (that sounds wrong)

TXAGina YEP. rt @ mavsfan010 mavs have like what 20 people under contract now it seems....there has to be another trade or two coming right

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Per Gina Millers' Twitter (that sounds wrong)

What's funny is that I read this... and then I read "TXAgina" as "Vagina".

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Miller's Twigina? What?