Mavs sign Derek Fisher - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Five-ofan · 11-29-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Murphy is a prototypical stretch 4, actually he is more of a stretch 4 than Dirk. Dirk's position is a high-post scorer. The best one at that in the history of the game. He doesn't camp at the 3 point line, like a stretch 4 does.

Anyway, Murphy is an excellent player, he had monster seasons with the Pacers. He had a 14/12 season, where he shot 45% from 3 point land, and he had another 3 or 4 solid seasons close to that.

He had an excellent 2009/2010 season. That was a mere 2 years ago. He's terrible at the moment of course, but i personally don't see Wright as a better option overall. Everybody's fascinated with his low-post scoring, i don't think that's our problem at the moment.

Incorrect. Murphy was a prototype stretch 4. He's not an nba caliber player now. I'd have no problem with playing past Murphy but that guy doesn't exist anymore.

Five-ofan · 11-29-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Would be stupid. I'm sure somebody would still trade a late first round pick for him. Dojo is virtually useless just like Roddy at the moment, but i can't imagine he has any trade value, so why not him? I'm pretty sure Fisher will start, and i'm almost crying if i think about a lineup with Fisher, Carter, and Kaman playing together. They will be something else on the defensive end.

Just cut Murphy

oilfieldtrash · 11-29-2012, 08:11 AM

tank mode is in full force. Dirk mysteriously can't come back from his knee injury, Murphy is placed at the starting 4, Derek BLEEPING Fisher is the starting PG! Same thing spurs did when they got Duncan.

roadrunner · 11-29-2012, 09:06 AM

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...thursday.html/

According to this Fisher is here to start and mentor Collison.

roadrunner · 11-29-2012, 09:13 AM

I'm giving this time to see how this works out but as others have pointed out this smacks of desperation. This org is still in win now mode, to their detriment IMO, and aren't capable of intentionally tanking to improve draft position. I really hope I'm wrong and we see remarkable improvement.

Kante · 11-29-2012, 09:21 AM

Cut Murphy or Dojo.

Oh and athe signing: Ugh...

roadrunner · 11-29-2012, 09:27 AM

Depth chart says they would cut Roddy before Dojo

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-29-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...thursday.html/

According to this Fisher is here to start and mentor Collison.

lol, yes coach...the best way to train a player to be a starter is by bringing them off the bench. Genius! Seriously, how is it "unfair" to Collison that he started? Can't handle the heat?

Can we sign Kevin Willis to train Kaman how to start?

jacktruth · 11-29-2012, 10:00 AM

They need to do Roddy a favor and cut him. I think they ruined him when they tried to make a point guard out of him. He had a gift for scoring, but they coached it right out of him.

Dojo is proving a better defender and slightly better playmaker point guard.

You can't really cut Murphy unless you bring in another 7-footer.

I hope the draft is good next year. A lottery year would be good for this team.

Rick41 · 11-29-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

lol, yes coach...the best way to train a player to be a starter is by bringing them off the bench. Genius! Seriously, how is it "unfair" to Collison that he started? Can't handle the heat?

Can we sign Kevin Willis to train Kaman how to start?

No shit, when I read the article I was like wat?

roadrunner · 11-29-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

lol, yes coach...the best way to train a player to be a starter is by bringing them off the bench. Genius! Seriously, how is it "unfair" to Collison that he started? Can't handle the heat?

Can we sign Kevin Willis to train Kaman how to start?

Yeah, I don't get the unfair part either. If Collison is so mentally deficient that he can't learn while starting I don't think coming in off the bench will help. This org was caught flat footed without a vet presence at pg when Kiddo reneged and are paying a price for it now.

ChileanMavsFan · 11-29-2012, 12:42 PM

I knew that i shouldn't have laughed last year when OKC got Fisher... damn karma!.

Truth to be told, this could help our PGs. We have a lot of youngsters and a veteran and savvy player could help us there. I just hope that Fisher realizes what his job is on the team and doesn't start shooting (and missing) anytime he finds himself semi-open like he did last year on occasion. At times he acted like the go-to guy coming off the bench.

EricaLubarsky · 11-29-2012, 12:53 PM

Problem is, Fisher has never been the kind of PG that we need. He's always been more of a "hockey assist" guy in the Triangle Offense than someone that runs an offense. Unless we are planning to go the way of the Lakers and turn Collison into a "conduit/jump shooter" then I really don't see it.

Always respected Fisher's intellect and always hated him for his shenanigans (going back to the Lakers under false pretenses, etc.) For better or worse-- he's going to be our starter-- probably for the whole year. We needed a better point. Here's hoping he's an upgrade and a leader instead of replacing another young, potential guy for an older has-been (a la Murphy)

sefant77 · 11-29-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Always respected Fisher's intellect and always hated him for his shenanigans (going back to the Lakers under false pretenses, etc.)

False pretenses? I wouldnt bet on that. His daughter had a really rare cancer and there were just 6 or 7 cities in the entire USA specialized on that. And LA was one of it.

Im pretty sure Fisher would have prefered to play for the minimum in Utah for the rest of his career instead of having his kid sick like that.

markus1234 · 11-29-2012, 01:07 PM

Fisher will be a joke on defense. This guy was done 2yrs ago when we swept LAL. Kobe must be laughing his ass off...He gets Nash and Dwight and we took Odom and Fisher. Yessr. Well done.

Popeye · 11-29-2012, 01:33 PM

I'm starting to wonder if Carlisle's offense just isn't a fit for a penetrating PG. It's worked well with Kidd and Billups in Detroit, but not sure its ever been good with someone like Collison.

Anyway, I predict big minutes for Fisher which isn't a good thing.

EricaLubarsky · 11-29-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

False pretenses? I wouldnt bet on that. His daughter had a really rare cancer and there were just 6 or 7 cities in the entire USA specialized on that. And LA was one of it.

Im pretty sure Fisher would have prefered to play for the minimum in Utah for the rest of his career instead of having his kid sick like that.

Looks like I got that wrong-- I just remembered the hype and we didn't get all the information when the story first came out. Fisher lost a pretty significant sum of money by working on a "retirement" buyout, but within a few days he had already signed in LA. and was still collecting a portion of his salary from Utah.

Who knows what actually happened, but it did look suspicious at the time that he'd retire to take care of his daughter and within a week he was playing with the Lakers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may...akers-20100509

GermanFan · 11-29-2012, 01:57 PM

Mavs will release Troy Murphy

EricaLubarsky · 11-29-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanFan

Mavs will release Troy Murphy

Best news since hearing about Dirk's surgery being successful.

LonghornDub · 11-29-2012, 02:00 PM

The hand-wringing over who starts is really, really silly. If Collison plays well, he'll play a lot. And if it goes horribly with Fisher starting, I'm fairly certain Carlisle is allowed to change his mind.

The starting lineup has been horrible of late. Experimenting with new ideas is exactly what RC should be doing. This isn't the middle of a playoff series.

EricaLubarsky · 11-29-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The hand-wringing over who starts is really, really silly. If Collison plays well, he'll play a lot. And if it goes horribly with Fisher starting, I'm fairly certain Carlisle is allowed to change his mind.

The starting lineup has been horrible of late. Experimenting with new ideas is exactly what RC should be doing. This isn't the middle of a playoff series.

Correct. Carlisle needs to find a lineup that works. If playing Fisher for 1min and Collison for 47 works, then so be it. If they alternate PGs every minute and we win a few, then so be it.

We just gotta stop playing 5 games under .500 (3-8) so Dirk can come back to a team worth playing for in a position to actually make the playoffs.

If Fisher can be a stabilizing force and help to develop Collison, then it will be a success. I feel like we are exceptionally weak in guard development. Carter is about the best guy we have to work with SGs and he's pretty decent. I love DA, but he was way more of a journeyman and way more like Collison than I'd like and I'm not sure he has the chops to tutor Darren.

If Fisher turns into our primary PG despite failure (a la Murph), then I will be most disappoint.

rabbitproof · 11-29-2012, 04:17 PM

Laughing stock.

Bayliss · 11-29-2012, 09:24 PM

Well. According to donnie the mavs landed a big fish in free agency....

sefant77 · 11-29-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Who knows what actually happened, but it did look suspicious at the time that he'd retire to take care of his daughter and within a week he was playing with the Lakers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may...akers-20100509

Well he retired because his daughter was on the move out of SLC to get in one of those 6-7 cities full time care and he didnt want to be stuck alone in SLC.

Was kind of luck then that LA was a possible destination and the Lakers were interested.

rabbitproof · 11-29-2012, 10:36 PM

What's the justification for benching Collison? He can't stay in front of his man? Is Fisher gonna?

Bayliss · 11-29-2012, 11:20 PM

Well, the bright spot is Fisher can hit the 3 pointer. He will be able to stand in the corner or wing and hit the wide open 3 off of a double team on Mayo and/or Wright/Kaman.

And I do believe he will be a stabilizing influence on the team in crunchtime. His numbers are abysmal. But not committing stupid turnovers, settling the team down, and hitting some important threes maybe what the Mavs need.

Let's face, they have been blown out a few times, but the Mavs could EASILY be 10-6 or 11-5 right now if they didn't f*ck up a few possessions late in games.

MrScottMcKenzie · 11-30-2012, 05:57 AM

A few of Fishers tweets:

I am very excited to join the Dallas Mavericks! I believe this team has the potential to contend with the best teams in the league.

I look forward to joining my new teammates, the Mavericks organization and contributing everything I can to play a part in a great season!

SMC0007 · 11-30-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, the bright spot is Fisher can hit the 3 pointer. He will be able to stand in the corner or wing and hit the wide open 3 off of a double team on Mayo and/or Wright/Kaman.

And I do believe he will be a stabilizing influence on the team in crunchtime. His numbers are abysmal. But not committing stupid turnovers, settling the team down, and hitting some important threes maybe what the Mavs need.

Let's face, they have been blown out a few times, but the Mavs could EASILY be 10-6 or 11-5 right now if they didn't f*ck up a few possessions late in games.

..and in general. GP

j0Shi · 11-30-2012, 12:25 PM

Derek Fisher *MIGHT* actually work in the starting unit with Dirk back on the floor and Collison taking the JJB role. 'All' Kidd did was delivering the ball to Dirk and hit a three every now and then, think Fisher could do that as well.

But Collison needs to perform a lot better anyhow. Right now you should go with DoJo on offense, Roddy on defense and with him if you really want to lose the game.

EricaLubarsky · 11-30-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Derek Fisher *MIGHT* actually work in the starting unit with Dirk back on the floor and Collison taking the JJB role. 'All' Kidd did was delivering the ball to Dirk and hit a three every now and then, think Fisher could do that as well.

I like the logic. Fisher knows how to load up the post as well as anyone in the league and we need to get it to guys in the mid (Dirk) and low (Kaman/Brand/Marion/Wright) post. He's an effective (and clutch shooter and doesn't make a ton of mistakes. He won't fix our defense or rebounding, but only Kidd and a fountain of Youth would do that from the PG position. The idea of him actually playing significant minutes makes me cringe a little less.

I have tempered excitement about him. It will be nice to have a guy that makes good decisions at the end of games and a guy that can hit extremely clutch shots. Before we were getting blown out every game, we were competing until the last 3 minutes. Even the Cavs game we almost gave up at the end. We could use a guy that can finish games.

And as I've said before, I think he'll be a better mentor to Collison if Collison is willing to listen than Armstrong. Armstrong is great, but he's always been a scrapper and journeyman rather than a high intellect player like Jackson, Kidd, etc.

oilfieldtrash · 11-30-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Derek Fisher *MIGHT* actually work in the starting unit with Dirk back on the floor and Collison taking the JJB role. 'All' Kidd did was delivering the ball to Dirk and hit a three every now and then, think Fisher could do that as well.

But Collison needs to perform a lot better anyhow. Right now you should go with DoJo on offense, Roddy on defense and with him if you really want to lose the game.

Yeah I guess if you forget his all world once in a generation passing ability and also the fact he could back down smaller point guards in the post to either score or draw a double team then pass out. Then you also had the fact he is considered to have the best basketball ball IQ on the whole mavericks team and even drew up some plays now and then. Fisher should definitely be able to replace Kidd.

j0Shi · 11-30-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Yeah I guess if you forget his all world once in a generation passing ability and also the fact he could back down smaller point guards in the post to either score or draw a double team then pass out. Then you also had the fact he is considered to have the best basketball ball IQ on the whole mavericks team and even drew up some plays now and then. Fisher should definitely be able to replace Kidd.

Look, it was an understatement, that's why I put 'All' in quotes.

But gathering the news on twitter they certainly hope to start him and that he can bring some of the things Kidd brought. You know, like delivering the ball to Dirk and hitting a three every now and then.

j0Shi · 11-30-2012, 02:14 PM

That said, I still don't like the fact that they dismiss Collison 16 games into the season. That's tough. I mean without Dirk this team was bound to be a .500 team at best anyway and it's not like Fisher is the difference between making or missing the playoffs. So I'd go with the upside.

I like Fisher as an experienced role player who can calm down clutch situations, but a starter?

nowhereman · 11-30-2012, 02:30 PM

I agree with not wanting to give up on Collison so early. I'd blame a lot of Collison's offensive shortcomings on lack of frontcourt talent. There's only so much you can do with guys setting picks that can't roll, corner shooters that can't shoot, and a go-to guy thats been a bit invisible of late. Defensively, I don't know how much (if at all) Fisher will be an upgrade at this age. More size, but a guy like Steph Curry will torch either of them.

grndmstr_c · 11-30-2012, 02:35 PM

Not much of a reaction to the Fisher signing. There are reasons to think he might be able to help stabilize things some (experience, multiple seasons of shooting the three close to 40%, and should be able to get the ball to Dirk/Kaman in their offensive comfort zones), and reasons to think that he'll only slow things down without really helping much (age, not a play-maker, three point shooting has been extremely erratic through the years).

The starting thing? Why is that such a big deal? After a great start to the season Darren has looked like trash more often than not, and neither DoJo or Booby has looked up to the task, either. Point guard is a mess right now. And like LD said, if Darren (or anybody else) starts looking like they deserve big, important minutes, I'm sure they'll get their chance.

adonis · 11-30-2012, 02:47 PM

Fisher told #2 was unavailable

Cuban secretly wanting to retire Kidd's jersey anyways?

j0Shi · 11-30-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The starting thing? Why is that such a big deal? After a great start to the season Darren has looked like trash more often than not, and neither DoJo or Booby has looked up to the task, either. Point guard is a mess right now. And like LD said, if Darren (or anybody else) starts looking like they deserve big, important minutes, I'm sure they'll get their chance.

I'm pretty sure there will be times when Fisher doesn't deserve but plays 20-25 minutes in front of more productive players. Just based on history how Carlisle/the Mavs used to handle things.

In the GSW game they turned away from a hot Majo to give the last shot in regulation to Carter. Turning to vets to a fault sometimes.

But hell who knows, maybe it'll work out great, gets Collison the kick-start.

sefant77 · 11-30-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

Fisher told #2 was unavailable

Cuban secretly wanting to retire Kidd's jersey anyways?

We are trading for Irving. Book it.

Woooooooooow

grndmstr_c · 11-30-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I'm pretty sure there will be times when Fisher doesn't deserve but plays 20-25 minutes in front of more productive players. Just based on history how Carlisle/the Mavs used to handle things.

In the GSW game they turned away from a hot Majo to give the last shot in regulation to Carter. Turning to vets to a fault sometimes.

But hell who knows, maybe it'll work out great, gets Collison the kick-start.

If Fisher is playing 20-25 minutes a night when he's not making shots, it'll probably be because he can at least be counted on to run the plays the coach wants run the way the coach wants them run, and to be where the coach wants him to be, when he wants him to be there, on the defensive end. If that comes to pass, you may call that playing when he doesn't deserve it. I'll call it the payoff for having earned the coach's trust by consistently doing what's asked of you. If any one of Dallas' other point guards had come close to doing that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

As for the GSW game, you're echoing what was a popular sentiment on this board and around Maverick land at the time, but without getting into the merits of the specific play-call, the fact of the matter is that OJ wasn't at all hot when the last shot was given to Vince. He didn't get hot, or start demonstrating an ability to make plays on the offensive end, until the OT period. Rick definitely has a history of turning to veterans when in doubt, but that play isn't remotely an example of him having done so to a fault.

SMC0007 · 11-30-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If Fisher is playing 20-25 minutes a night when he's not making shots, it'll probably be because he can at least be counted on to run the plays the coach wants run the way the coach wants them run, and to be where the coach wants him to be, when he wants him to be there, on the defensive end. If that comes to pass, you may call that playing when he doesn't deserve it. I'll call it the payoff for having earned the coach's trust by consistently doing what's asked of you. If any one of Dallas' other point guards had come close to doing that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

As for the GSW game, you're echoing what was a popular sentiment on this board and around Maverick land at the time, but without getting into the merits of the specific play-call, the fact of the matter is that OJ wasn't at all hot when the last shot was given to Vince. He didn't get hot, or start demonstrating an ability to make plays on the offensive end, until the OT period. Rick definitely has a history of turning to veterans when in doubt, but that play isn't remotely an example of him having done so to a fault.

O.J. Mayo led Dallas with 27 points and nearly answered Curry bucket for bucket down the stretch, scoring seven of the Mavericks' last 10 points in regulation and all 11 of their points in the extra session.

Meanwhile Carter didn't even score in the 4th.

To me this is easily as good an example of turning to veterans to a fault as any other. If he needed to justify turning to a new guy in that situation, he could easily have referred to what Mayo had done in the game and in the 4th.