What's spinning in your DVD PLAYER? eh? eh? General Movie Discussion

[Underdog]

Missing lightsaber scene from 'Return of the Jedi' shown at Celebration V.

(catch it before Lucas pulls it!)

[Big Boy Laroux]

Ok I like star wars as much as the next non-fanatic, but what's the big deal there? 40 seconds of meh?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Ok I like star wars as much as the next non-fanatic, but what's the big deal there? 40 seconds of meh?

No, 40 seconds of UNSEEN meh!

(if it was worth a damn, it probably would have made it into the movie...)

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

No, 40 seconds of UNSEEN meh!

(if it was worth a damn, it probably would have made it into the movie...)

As a fan, I actually have 1/3rd of my arms tattooed in Star Wars, this is a very important scene.

You see Vader showing his continuing efforts to recruit his son. As well as the pressure on Luke, and Luke (somewhat)creating his lightsaber. Lightsaber creation is a huge deal to becoming a Jedi, and with Luke in the cowl (very Sithish) and showing the green saber, it signifies his turmoil with becoming a Jedi. If you view RotJ with the idea that Luke has to choose his path, it makes the movie much deeper. This scene would have helped to show just how difficult Luke's journey was. People like to bash Luke as the whiny kid from the first movie, but Lucas ripped the character from classic mythology, without him there is no purpose for the saga. Luke is the most important character in the entire Star Wars story, and a little extra camera time in his conclusive chapter would have been nice. Seeing it now makes it that much better.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

As a fan, I actually have 1/3rd of my arms tattooed in Star Wars, this is a very important scene.

You see Vader showing some humanity, and Luke (somewhat)creating his lightsaber. Lightsaber creation is a huge deal to becoming a Jedi, and with Luke in the cowl (very Sithish) and showing the green saber, it signifies his turmoil with becoming a Jedi. If you view RotJ with the idea that Luke has to choose his path, it makes the movie much deeper. This scene would have helped to show just how difficult Luke's journey was. People like to bash Luke as the whiny kid from the first movie, but Lucas ripped the character from classic mythology, without him there is no purpose for the saga. Luke is the most important character in the entire Star Wars story, and a little extra camera time in his conclusive chapter would have been nice. Seeing it now makes it that much better.

Nerd!

From a film-editing standpoint, Vader DID reference Luke's construction of a new lightsaber when they first met on Endor, so this information was included, although they probably glossed it over due to time constraints... Also the scene where he looks at his mechanical hand after he chops off Vader's hand references the turmoil of becoming a Jedi and the seduction of the Dark Side... But I do agree that the missing scene lends a little more weight to Luke's inner-conflict...

(yeah, the kettle just called the pot a nerd...)

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Nerd!

From a film-editing standpoint, Vader DID reference Luke's construction of a new lightsaber when they first met on Endor, so this information was included, although they probably glossed it over due to time constraints... Also the scene where he looks at his mechanical hand after he chops off Vader's hand references the turmoil of becoming a Jedi and the seduction of the Dark Side... But I do agree that the missing scene lends a little more weight to Luke's inner-conflict...

(yeah, the kettle just called the pot a nerd...)

I think the importance of the scene is the fact that it pre-showdown. Obviously it takes place before Luke confronts Vader, and it shows there was a struggle before Luke even confirmed with Yoda his heritage. The significance isn't the extra 40 seconds, it is the subject of that extra 40 seconds. Hell, Lucas made three prequels to tell us how important the Skywalker family's fall and return to grace was.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I think the importance of the scene is the fact that it pre-showdown. Obviously it takes place before Luke confronts Vader, and it shows there was a struggle before Luke even confirmed with Yoda his heritage. The significance isn't the extra 40 seconds, it is the subject of that extra 40 seconds. Hell, Lucas made three prequels to tell us how important the Skywalker family's fall and return to grace was.

Well, you're welcome then!

(I only wish I could find a higher-quality version without all the cheering...)

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, you're welcome then!

(I only wish I could find a higher-quality version without all the cheering...)

The "Yeaaaaahhhh" guy does kinda ruin it. Also, is Luke back in Obi'wan's cave?...let's discuss until no woman will touch us.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

The "Yeaaaaahhhh" guy does kinda ruin it. Also, is Luke back in Obi'wan's cave?...let's discuss until no woman will touch us.

Looks like Tatooine in the background...

Plus, where else would he find the parts to make a lightsaber in a post-Jedi galaxy?

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Looks like Tatooine in the background...

Plus, where else would he find the parts to make a lightsaber in a post-Jedi galaxy?

Also, no CGI in the scene. The lack of post production overindulgence helps the scene feel more authentic to true Star Wars vibe. This was something Lucas intended to include in his original story line, before 20 years of second guessing.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Also, no CGI in the scene. The lack of post production overindulgence helps the scene feel more authentic to true Star Wars vibe. This was something Lucas intended to include in his original story line, before 20 years of second guessing.

I'm still waiting for the re-re-release where Greedo shoots first, then Han Solo apologizes for the misunderstanding, shakes his hand and walks away...

[bernardos70]

Anyone else though Scott Pilgrim vs The World was awesome?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by bernardos70

Anyone else though Scott Pilgrim vs The World was awesome?

I've now heard this from several people and I want to see it soon. I also heard Kick Ass was good, though I never saw it.

[Just211]

Kick Ass was good... I watched it thinkin it would be stupid funny, but its actually a straight up real good movie...

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Missing lightsaber scene from 'Return of the Jedi' shown at Celebration V.

(catch it before Lucas pulls it!)

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Lucasfilm Ltd.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Lucasfilm Ltd.

New link

(actually a little worse though - the framing is awful, but you get the idea...)

[Big Boy Laroux]

planning to see scott pilgrim tomorrow night (or wednesday night). I have heard nothing but great things (from people i know, from reviews on online forums, etc.). I'll post here after i see it.

it definitely looks like a "word of mouth" movie. edgar wright has done no wrong in my eyes so far, i'm sure he'll keep it up with this one (plus i like the source material).

[Big Boy Laroux]

as for kick-ass, i saw it and liked it. I liked the source material better, though. Darker ending.

[bernardos70]

I thought Kick-ass was pretty good but not amazing. Scott Pilgrim I thought was amazing. I really really lesbians that movie.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Saw scott pilgrim tonight. Loved, Loved, LOVED IT. I've read the books, but honestly, it doesn't matter! There are so many changes, it's like the movie and the book are both loosely based on the same subject matter. But there were no negative changes, IMO. They ranged from parallel, to being slightly better than the books, to being a lot better than the books, to being WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the books. I would provide details but don't want to bore those that haven't read the books.

It is absolutely a manic-paced movie. I have already warned some people to be ready for it - stuff happens fast. but the editing for those fast scenes is brilliant. The directing/editing/cinematography is top-notch.

really my only 2 complaints - the opening credits (good lord i was about to go into an epileptic seizure... plus, maybe they could have used that time for actual scenes?) and Winstead's hair. I know what her hair was like in the books, but come on. it wasn't the color changes, it was the, i don't know, poofiness? kind of distracting after a while. especially cause the actress is pretty hot. But maybe they were trying to downplay her by putting a muppet on her head? Also, the pee bar - who pees that fast?

Casting was amazing, especially for the exes (notably Schwartzman, Whitman, and Evans). I thought Cera was actually pretty good and didn't "play himself" as so many people claim.

Overall, just a FUN movie. I had a dumb grin on my face the entire time.

[bernardos70]

"Is Scott here?"
"Nope, he's not here"
*flies through window*
"Are you sure?"
"Yeah, not here"
*reaches for coat*

[Big Boy Laroux]

<I have to pee><Who, her?>

"I have to pee on her!"

[bernardos70]

I was trying to remember that quote. Genius.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Side SPOILER:
He's definitely not in a dream at the end because a. he's not wearing a wedding ring which coincides with all the other "real world scenes" in the movie. b. they cast a 2nd set of actors for the kids if you look at the credits. c. we already know that killing yourself gets you out of limbo, so there's no reason to believe that isn't the case again.

SOME INCEPTION SPOILERS

finally saw inception tonight. I really liked the ambiguous ending.

Just wanted to comment on this post:

a) but if the "real world scenes" have been a dream all along (ie, what we thought was real was just the top layer of dreams) then all this means is that if he's not wearing the ring, he's back at the top dream level.

b) maybe the kids simply grew up in the course of filming so they needed another set of kids to play that age again. Or within the movie universe, do you always dream people in the same clothes? Why is that not a possible change?

c) if the real world is a dream, then those are just rules Cobb created for his dream world. It's not fact.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Ahhh... Spoiler Tags are for wimps anyway.

Guy Peirce was tricked by his wife and there is no John G

Actually wrong on both counts. Well, cause i do believe Teddy.

[Big Boy Laroux]

MORE INCEPTION SPOILERS


I have a question about an inconsistency or plot hole:

What was the purpose of Eames planting the explosives in the snow dream level? Just to look cool? Because that kick was unnecessary, a kick happens at the level above the dream.

Van Kick - to pull them out of the Hotel dream
Elevator Kick - to pull them out of the snow dream
Snow Explosives Kick - ???? It wasn't to pull Fischer and Juno out of limbo, they died to move back up a level.


and two other minor questions - how did Cobb and Juno get down to the limbo level just by dreaming down another level? Cause Cobb had been there before?

and why place importance on defibrillating Fischer? That wouldn't get him out of limbo, at least from what they had established. It was dying (being thrown off the building) that brought Fischer back up.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

MORE INCEPTION SPOILERS


I have a question about an inconsistency or plot hole:

What was the purpose of Eames planting the explosives in the snow dream level? Just to look cool? Because that kick was unnecessary, a kick happens at the level above the dream.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***


The kick had to happen on EVERY dream level...

The van hitting the water after it fell off the bridge, the explosives in the elevator, the explosives on the snow house, jumping off the building... Not only did every level have a kick, but the kicks had to happen in a seamless sequence for everyone to get pulled out of every dream (which is why Cobb & Saito don't wake up when everyone else does - because there was no kick in limbo).

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

and two other minor questions - how did Cobb and Juno get down to the limbo level just by dreaming down another level? Cause Cobb had been there before?

That wasn't limbo, it was an extra dream level they went into to slow down time because Fisher was dying. Limbo was yet another level after that, where only Cobb & Saito went... Ariadne & Fisher jumping off the building was a kick - the falling motion woke them up, not the "dying" from hitting the ground (otherwise they would have ended up in limbo too...)

From IMDb:

1. The city (Yusuf's dream); 2. The hotel (Arthur's dream); 3. The snow fort (Eames' dream); 4. The decaying city (Cobb's dream); 5. Limbo [not a layer so much as it is its own separate entity. The only characters who entered it were Saito (shot in Yusuf's dream) and Cobb (stabbed in his own dream)].

[Big Boy Laroux]

MORE INCEPTION SPOILERS

Why though? Earlier in the movie, they established that the kick happens at the level above the dream. Or else, why not just perform a kick on yourself in your dream instead of killing yourself? Remember that first dream sequence? Cobb gets a kick by being pushed backward into the tub. Yet he had no kick on the dream he was in (inside the Asian house). He was just standing there.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

MORE INCEPTION SPOILERS


Why though? Earlier in the movie, they established that the kick happens at the level above the dream. Or else, why not just perform a kick on yourself in your dream instead of killing yourself? Remember that first dream sequence? Cobb gets a kick by being pushed backward into the tub. Yet he had no kick on the dream he was in (inside the Asian house). He was just standing there.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***


Because the sedative they took for this mission was so strong (the only way to create so many dream layers). They had to kick in sequence, otherwise the mind wouldn't wake up.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Underdog

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

That wasn't limbo, it was an extra dream level they went into to slow down time because Fisher was dying. Limbo was yet another level after that, where only Cobb & Saito went...

ok, i was actually considering that it was simply another dream level. But it seemed with all the discussion of limbo, and the washing up on shore, that that was where they went. Cobb did also say that "Saito would be there soon".

But it is makes more sense that Cobb had never been to limbo. he had just been in a super deep dream level with his wife.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Underdog

***INCEPTION SPOILER***


Because the sedative they took for this mission was so strong (the only way to create so many dream layers). They had to kick was in sequence, otherwise the mind wouldn't wake up.

I understand the need to kick in sequence. i'm just talking about where that kick occurred.

going by your assertion that Ariadne didn't die in the lowest dream level, and it was her fall that got her out, then the kick that becomes irrelevant is the van kick!

Ariadne and Fischer falling - wake up from lowest dream level
Snow Explosion - Wake up from Snow dream
Elevator - wake up from Hotel Dream
Van - wake up from van dream (but we see that they did not actually wake up from the van dream until the timer ran out).

If it's the case that a kick needed to happen at every level, i don't think they did a good enough job of explaining that or setting that precedence earlier in the movie.

[Big Boy Laroux]

MORE SPOILERS


If we go by the idea of a "kick at every level"

Wake up from lowest level - kick from Ariadne falling combined with snow explosions
Wake up from snow dream - snow explosions combined with Elevator
Wake up from Hotel dream - Elevator combined with Van hitting water
Wake up from van dream - Timer runs out (kick didn't work here because someone would have had to perform a kick on them on the airplane).

Yes, that does make sense, and I guess Nolan did this to explain why arthur didn't wake up when the van first went over the railing (the first van kick). Probably to create suspense by having a limited time (the van falling) to finish the job. I just think it goes against the earlier precedent that was set.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

ok, i was actually considering that it was simply another dream level. But it seemed with all the discussion of limbo, and the washing up on shore, that that was where they went. Cobb did also say that "Saito would be there soon".

But it is makes more sense that Cobb had never been to limbo. he had just been in a super deep dream level with his wife.

Here's a good chart reflecting this. It just seemed intentionally confusing with the whole "washing up on shore" thing.

http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/up...er-550x777.jpg

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

I understand the need to kick in sequence. i'm just talking about where that kick occurred.

going by your assertion that Ariadne didn't die in the lowest dream level, and it was her fall that got her out, then the kick that becomes irrelevant is the van kick!

Ariadne and Fischer falling - wake up from lowest dream level
Snow Explosion - Wake up from Snow dream
Elevator - wake up from Hotel Dream
Van - wake up from van dream (but we see that they did not actually wake up from the van dream until the timer ran out).

If it's the case that a kick needed to happen at every level, i don't think they did a good enough job of explaining that or setting that precedence earlier in the movie.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***


Sorry, your confusion confused me for a moment there...

Each kick wakes you up from the previous level, not the level that the kick takes place in. The confusing part was Ariadne jumping off the building. She was unsure if the snow fort kick would wake her (because she fell asleep before she knew if Eams had planted the explosives), so she jumped just in case, but it was unnecessary because Eams' explosions DID wake her up.

So Cobb and Saito were stuck in limbo - exclude them from the following:

The elevator explosion woke Eams, Fisher & Ariadne up from the snow fort. Then the van hitting the water woke Arthur, Eams, Fisher & Ariadne up from the hotel. Then everyone woke up from the van dream manually because of the handy-dandy dream machine and everyone was back on the plane...

Get it?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Here's a good chart reflecting this. It just seemed intentionally confusing with the whole "washing up on shore" thing.

http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/up...er-550x777.jpg

Limbo is supposed to be confusing - the "final" layer of Inception is Christopher Nolan messing with the audience's perception...

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Underdog

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Each kick wakes you up from the previous level, not the level that the kick takes place in. The confusing part was Ariadne jumping off the building. She was unsure if the snow fort kick would wake her, so she jumped just in case, but it was unnecessary because the Eams' explosions DID wake her up.

right, I get it, that was what i was saying before. So then the pointless kick becomes Ariadne and Fischer's falling (which isn't a valid kick, and actually, they should have died from the fall! well, unless the explosion kick woke her while they were still falling. But why would she jump knowing that a kick from within a level doesn't wake you, and death would put her in limbo?).

also, if i remember correctly, didn't cobb tell eames to start planting the explosives before he and ariadne ever decided to follow cobb? So what was the purpose there?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

The elevator explosion woke Eams, Fisher & Ariadne up from the snow fort. Then the van hitting the water woke Arthur, Eams, Fisher & Ariadne up from the hotel. Then everyone woke up from the van dream manually because of the handy-dandy dream machine and everyone was back on the plane...

Get it?

so why did they blow up the fort? I thought going another level down was not originally planned.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Limbo is supposed to be confusing - the "final" layer of Inception is Christopher Nolan messing with the audience's perception...

ah, but one other wrinkle. How did Fischer get to this final level if it was Cobb's dream? He was shot before cobb and ariadne went down there. The message relayed to the audience was that Fischer got there by dying (indicating that it was indeed limbo).

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

right, that was what i was saying before. So then the pointless kick becomes Ariadne and Fischer's falling (which isn't a valid kick, and actually, they should have died from the fall!).

also, if i remember correctly, didn't cobb tell eames to start planting the explosives before he and ariadne ever decided to follow cobb? So what was the purpose there?

Eh, you quoted me before my edit.

Ariadne didn't KNOW if Eams was successful in planting the explosives. They were being attacked, so the kick might not have been planted yet... The jump was a "better safe than sorry" move, but ultimately unnecessary...

The snow fort explosives went off BEFORE Ariadne hit the ground, so she was pulled out of that dream without "dying" and the rest of the kick sequences went on as planned...

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The snow fort explosives went off BEFORE Ariadne hit the ground, so she was pulled out of that dream without "dying" and the rest of the kick sequences went on as planned...

Why would she plan on dying so deep in a multilayered dream? Wouldn't that be sending her to limbo?