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Old 06-30-2022, 07:55 AM   #601
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Reggie Bullock: JB deserves everything coming his way, true hard worker and def LIKE DAT 💼 💰 AND BETTER PERSON OFF THE COURT 💯 ? via Twitter ReggieBullock35
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:16 AM   #602
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Reggie Bullock: JB deserves everything coming his way, true hard worker and def LIKE DAT 💼 💰 AND BETTER PERSON OFF THE COURT 💯 ? via Twitter ReggieBullock35
Yeah, stuff like this deepens my concern that the Mavs letting themselves be outbid after the way Brunson elevated his game will negatively effect perception of the franchise by players. It might even hurt morale within the Mavs' own lockerroom.

Brunson earned his money. Just f**king pay the man. I really don't care if it's 30 million a year. Bad contracts are really not a big deal. Every team has them. But don't let your second best player walk out the door by being cheap.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:20 AM   #603
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You?re sending the message in the locker room unless you?re Luka, you?re not getting the bag from Cuban after outplaying your contract if it?s an overpay.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:27 AM   #604
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Perception is the WORST reason to overpay a player who is redundant and a poor fit next to your actual best player. The Patriots and Spurs are both great examples of teams that know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em when it comes to players. Paying JB $25-30m a year will absolutely handicap our franchise.

Edit: want to add I have a lot of respect for the posters arguing very valid points as to why we should keep JB. I respectfully dissent.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:36 AM   #605
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You?re sending the message in the locker room unless you?re Luka, you?re not getting the bag from Cuban after outplaying your contract if it?s an overpay.
He is getting a bag either way. Again, how do we know dad and agent aren't just using us and Miami for leverage? It's a really bad look if we up our offer just for him to pick the Knicks anyway. Then who is the chump?

And DFS got his bag. THJ got his bag. I hardly feel sorry for these guys.

Every single indication we've had in the last week is that Brunson wants to play for NY. I really don't think it's gonna be Brunson telling Cuban he really wants to play for the Mavs and will sign the dotted line if the price is 125/5.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:36 AM   #606
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One last point on this: no amount the Mavs can offer will remotely cover the amount JB can earn as the face of the Knicks if he balls out.

If he wants his own team and he wants to maximize his earning potential, the answer is clear.

If he wants to win, the answer is clear.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:36 AM   #607
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I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?

Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:38 AM   #608
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Whole thing wreaks

Brunson can talk to us now. He?s still our guy until he signs otherwise. Why talk to us now?

He 100% wants to leave and try to be a star with the Knicks and his dad and that?s fine. He?s just totally bullshitting us now.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:38 AM   #609
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Whole thing reeks

Brunson can talk to us now. He?s still our guy until he signs otherwise. Why talk to us now?

He 100% wants to leave and try to be a star with the Knicks and his dad and that?s fine. He?s just totally bullshitting us now.

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Old 06-30-2022, 08:40 AM   #610
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Perception is the WORST reason to overpay a player who is redundant and a poor fit next to your actual best player. The Patriots and Spurs are both great examples of teams that know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em when it comes to players. Paying JB $25-30m a year will absolutely handicap our franchise.

Edit: want to add I have a lot of respect for the posters arguing very valid points as to why we should keep JB. I respectfully dissent.
Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:42 AM   #611
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I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?
What exactly are you confused about? Bad contracts aren't a big deal. They're not nearly the franchise crippling albatrosses everyone acts like they are. If they were, then there wouldn't be so many bad contracts.

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Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.
Okay, but why? Seriously, what difference does an extra 5 million make?
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:48 AM   #612
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Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.
100% agree.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:50 AM   #613
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He is getting a bag either way. Again, how do we know dad and agent aren't just using us and Miami for leverage? It's a really bad look if we up our offer just for him to pick the Knicks anyway. Then who is the chump?
I could not possibly disagree more. If the Mavs offer him more money and he chooses to go to NY anyway, then that's his decision. Then it wasn't about money, or even about a lack of loyalty from the Mavs. Brunson just really wanted to play in NY then. But if the Mavs don't make the offer? I'm telling you, shit like that really bothers players. These guys have very fragile egos, and they all talk. That will (correctly) be seen as Cuban A: being cheap, and B: having no loyalty to a guy who absolutely elevated his game on the big stage, and helped us win our first playoff series in over a decade. Without him, no way we get past Utah.

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And DFS got his bag. THJ got his bag. I hardly feel sorry for these guys.

Every single indication we've had in the last week is that Brunson wants to play for NY. I really don't think it's gonna be Brunson telling Cuban he really wants to play for the Mavs and will sign the dotted line if the price is 125/5.
True, but every single indication before that was that him staying with the Mavs was a done deal. Something happened in the interim. I'm thinking that he was caught off guard by just how hard the Knicks are pursuing him.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:52 AM   #614
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Fischer & Stein on Jalen Brunson:

- A Duncan Robinson centered S&T could make sense if he goes to Miami

- Skepticism that he?ll go anywhere BUT New York

- Meetings seem to leave the door open

- $110 million is the max New York is expected to offer


If this is accurate, the Mavs would be foolish to not offer JB 5yrs and $125M and leave the door open to go 5 yrs and $130M (that is, if the Knicks up their offer).

This type of negotiation sends the right message to current and future Mavs players, "If you are the second best player on the team and helped get us to the WCF, we will take care of you."
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:55 AM   #615
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Seriously, what difference does an extra 5 million make?
Why not ask that to Brunson? He doesn't want to play here.

It seems the negotiating is in total amount anyway. 110 Knicks over four years seems to be their offer. OK, so offer 115 over five which comes to 23 mil a year. There is your extra 5 million and a good compromise. But it's not about the money, and it's certainly not about the winning.

Find me a source that says Brunson really wants to stay as long as the offer is to his liking, and I'll change my tune. Daddy and agent orchestrated this whole thing. There is no way he doesn't go to the Knicks after the moves they made.
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Old 06-30-2022, 09:02 AM   #616
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Why not ask that to Brunson? He doesn't want to play here.
Huh? That makes no sense. $5 million means a hell of a lot to the player. My question is, what difference does it make to the franchise? More to the point, what difference does it make to a FAN saying the most they would offer if they were in charge is $25M a year. (And in case it wasn't clear, I meant $5 million a year, not $5 million total)

Is $30 million a year really so much more egregious an overpay and so much more crippling to the franchise than $25 million? Spoiler alert- it's not. It IS however a bigger strain on Mark Cuban's pocketbook, which is increasingly what this seems to be about.

And if it really isn't about money, as you suggest, and he's going to the Knicks no matter what the Mavs offer, then fuck it, offer him the full max and make the Knicks pay even more. No sense in letting them off easy.

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Old 06-30-2022, 09:39 AM   #617
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Here's basically where I'm at.

If the Mavs offer him more money than the Knicks, and he still leaves, then there was nothing they could have done. He just plain doesn't want to be here, and I can't be mad that at the FO.

BUT if the Mavs offer only equal money, or worse, even less, then that's a huge mistake. The Mavs need to be able to say they did everything they could to keep Brunson. If they didn't do everything they could, then it's silly to blame Brunson or his dad or Leon Rose or anyone else.

The NBA gives each team one and only one tool to protect their rosters from being poached by other teams- the ability to pay their guys more the other team. If the Mavs don't use that one tool at their disposal, then that's on them. And it's a bad decision. It's a huge step backwards.

I want to share the optimism that Brunson's production can be so easily replaced. If that's so, then I've got no problem at all letting him walk. But I just don't see it. And I also don't see how letting him walk preserves any roster flexibility either. In fact, I think it actually makes us LESS flexible, because we lose him as possible trade asset as well as losing his production on the court. Yes, trading a guy making 30 million a year is hard. But it is NOT impossible. We just did it earlier this year. It IS impossible however to trade someone who is not on your roster.
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Old 06-30-2022, 09:50 AM   #618
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So the Knicks offering 30 mil a year would equal to 120. I guess that's where the 5/125 number comes from because I don't think the Knicks can get to 125. Not positive on that though.

Again, if it comes out that 5/125 seals the deal, then sure, it's irritating if the Mavs don't step up. But a week's worth of Knicks, Knicks, Knicks just doesn't reek of a guy willing to commit to us.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:03 AM   #619
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So the Knicks offering 30 mil a year would equal to 120. I guess that's where the 5/125 number comes from because I don't think the Knicks can get to 125. Not positive on that though.

Again, if it comes out that 5/125 seals the deal, then sure, it's irritating if the Mavs don't step up. But a week's worth of Knicks, Knicks, Knicks just doesn't reek of a guy willing to commit to us.
Again, the impression I get is- and I could be completely wrong about this, I'm just trying to read between the lines- Brunson initially did intend on re-signing with the Mavs. Because we heard repeatedly that him staying was all but a done deal. But then a lot of talk started happening behind the scenes *cough*(tampering) *cough*, and Brunson was surprised at how much the Knicks actually wanted him. He knew they wanted him and probably intended to just use them to get some extra money from the Mavs. But then it became clear that the Knicks were actually willing to pay MORE money than the Mavs and not the other way around. He was already feeling a bit salty over not getting the extension he wanted back in February, and this just made it worse. Now he wants to really squeeze the Mavs for every penny.

And you know what? I don't blame him one bit. The Mavs low-balled him, and he's making them regret it. I would do the exact same thing in his position. All the shit with his dad and his agent is shady and underhanded as hell, sure. But I will never blame a player for going where they make the most money.

If however the Mavs offer him more money and he STILL leaves. Then fine, that's on him. Then he just wants to be near his daddy, and is delusional enough to actually think he'll be "the man" in NY, even though they are very clearly using him as bait to lure an even bigger fish down the road.

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Old 06-30-2022, 10:15 AM   #620
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Multiple reports now saying there is no meeting with the Heat and never was. It was always a bullshit ploy by JB?s camp to squeeze more money out of the Knicks and make this look legit versus the obvious farce it is. Don?t let the door hit you JB.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:22 AM   #621
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Shit, I just now found out the Dennis Schroder is UFA and only made $5.8 million this year. He'd be almost a perfect replacement for Brunson. A bit of a malcontent, but still a very quality guard. If we can get him for the TPMLE I'd be very happy.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:26 AM   #622
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Multiple reports now saying there is no meeting with the Heat and never was. It was always a bullshit ploy by JB?s camp to squeeze more money out of the Knicks and make this look legit versus the obvious farce it is. Don?t let the door hit you JB.
Goes to show even the best reporters get this stuff wrong. Now I do think the meeting with Dallas is just to save face for tampering.

Next.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:28 AM   #623
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Multiple reports now saying there is no meeting with the Heat and never was. It was always a bullshit ploy by JB?s camp to squeeze more money out of the Knicks and make this look legit versus the obvious farce it is. Don?t let the door hit you JB.
Why are the Mavs always in the middle of craziness during FA season? Maybe Cuban and Nico should lock JB in a hotel room and not let him leave until he signs. Keep daddy outside and force the young man to make his own decision. Just kidding, but the Mavs' stories around this time of year seem always full of intrigue and tend towards the melodramatic.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:33 AM   #624
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Why are the Mavs always in the middle of craziness during FA season? Maybe Cuban and Nico should lock JB in a hotel room and not let him leave until he signs. Keep daddy outside and force the young man to make his own decision. Just kidding, but the Mavs' stories around this time of year seem always full of intrigue and tend towards the melodramatic.
In the past I think it's that the players the Mavs were chasing just so happened to be particularly melodramatic- Dwight Howard on multiple occasions, Deron Williams, Deandre Jordan... This time though it has way more to do with the Knicks that the Mavs. Who knew the Knicks would go all out and build their whole offseason around chasing a mid-tier player like Brunson.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:47 AM   #625
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Shit, I just now found out the Dennis Schroder is UFA and only made $5.8 million this year. He'd be almost a perfect replacement for Brunson. A bit of a malcontent, but still a very quality guard. If we can get him for the TPMLE I'd be very happy.
AND his was born in Germany.....
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:58 AM   #626
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Multiple reports now saying there is no meeting with the Heat and never was. It was always a bullshit ploy by JB?s camp to squeeze more money out of the Knicks and make this look legit versus the obvious farce it is. Don?t let the door hit you JB.
To be fair, the report says that the Heat don't have a meeting scheduled today, not that they aren't meeting with Brunson at all. Haynes' initial report only said that Brunson was meeting with the Heat, he didn't specify a day.

That being said, there is no way he goes to Miami. He probably is meeting with them, but just to stoke the bidding war.
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:10 AM   #627
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Shit, I just now found out the Dennis Schroder is UFA and only made $5.8 million this year. He'd be almost a perfect replacement for Brunson. A bit of a malcontent, but still a very quality guard. If we can get him for the TPMLE I'd be very happy.
I can be down with Dennis.

I'm honestly over Brunson at this point.
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:39 AM   #628
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Yeah, me too. All this drama over Brunson. Good grief. There are already like 10 FAs I like who could fill that void.
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:50 AM   #629
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It's sad where Cuban and the Mavs are.

Good teams have guys leave. They're constantly developing new talent, bringing in guys via free agency/draft, and there's always a flow of talent.

It's totally natural that some people would want to take off for whatever reason but acting like a desperate boyfriend makes us look desperate and pathetic.

Wish JB well and move on. Players will appreciate it and it'll make for a more positive work place.

Nico can keep us in serious playoff contention.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:09 PM   #630
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Why are the Mavs always in the middle of craziness during FA season? Maybe Cuban and Nico should lock JB in a hotel room and not let him leave until he signs. Keep daddy outside and force the young man to make his own decision. Just kidding, but the Mavs' stories around this time of year seem always full of intrigue and tend towards the melodramatic.
Yup, every summer, Mavs are in the middle of a scrum, with cap space to add, or a player to lose.

The Nuggets locked McDyess in the Pepsi Center during an Avalanche game....unknown to McDyess, Kidd, Chapman and McCloud were outside and not allowed in to talk to McDyess..I think if he goes to the Knicks for cheaper than our offer....would think this was all a charades to keep the tampering investigators off the Knicks tail.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:16 PM   #631
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I?d take Dennis to fill Brunson role.

Like others I?m really just over it. 25m accept or walk.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:27 PM   #632
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What an absolute kick in the nuts. This is so Mavs. Welcome to the Mavs, Nico. We can?t even sign our own free agents here.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:32 PM   #633
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Can't compare the NFL to the NBA. In the NFL, everyone other than a QB is completely replaceable. As for the Spurs, I'll admit that I haven't followed them that closely in recent years, but I can't ever recall them letting go of someone so important. Certainly not when they were in the title picture anyway. Minor role players, sure, but not their second best player.

As for handicapping the franchise, can you be more specific? Because I honestly don't see how it would change anything since we're going to be over the cap either way. I mean, the Mavs were willing to offer him 22 million a year. How much would and extra 5-8 million really hinder the Mavs?

And letting guys walk for the sake of future "flexibility" is classic Plan Powder. Have we still not learned our lesson about this? Has letting a good, important part of the starting lineup walk in free agency EVER worked in our favor? Even once? I feel like it has always been disastrous for the Mavs.

You can always clear salary if you need to. Hell, look how quick the Knicks did just to steal Brunson. Clearing salary is easy. But replacing your second best player when you have no cap room and almost no trade assets? That's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I'm not saying I like paying Brunson that much. But having a bad contract seems the far lesser evil than going back to square one with having only one ball handler outside of Luka.
I don?t know if you?re local, but Bob Sturm was discussing this yesterday and the impact it would have on the team.. overpaying Brunson. You could tell that he was thinking like a football guy and not a basketball guy.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:41 PM   #634
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If all the roster cuts and trades happen as reported (and I may have missed one or two), JB would be playing with the following NY Knicks:

Julius Randle
Evan Fournier
RJ Barrett
Derrick Rose
Obi Toppin
Cam Reddish
Immanuel Quickly
Quentin Grimes
Trevor Keels
Mitchell Robinson (Likely?)
Ryan Arcidiacono

Not making any judgments on whether this is good or bad for JB. Just showing the facts of the matter.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:46 PM   #635
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I'm confused...the Mavs should dole out a bad contract because other teams have bad contracts?

Max for me is $25mm a year, take it or leave it and have fun in NY I guess.
The Mavs should match or outbid NY because, at this point, it makes no difference if they are more over the cap to anyone but Cuban?s wallet.
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Old 06-30-2022, 01:02 PM   #636
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25m makes Jalen 14th highest paid PG. Any moron thinking that?s too much can kick rocks.

That would be between what Conley and Lowry make. Above Brogdon and Rozier. This is the going rate.
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Old 06-30-2022, 01:11 PM   #637
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25m makes Jalen 14th highest paid PG. Any moron thinking that?s too much can kick rocks.

That would be between what Conley and Lowry make. Above Brogdon and Rozier. This is the going rate.
And how have any of them worked out so far? Conley is over the Hill as is Lowry (who was terrrible in the playoffs for Miami), and Brogdon and Rozier are on the trade block.

I'm fine keeping Brunson at 25 a year if that's what it takes, but those examples aren't the best.

It'll be interesting to see what Indiana and Charlotte get for Brogdon and Rozier since the idea is you can move Brunson later down the road.
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Old 06-30-2022, 01:42 PM   #638
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And how have any of them worked out so far? Conley is over the Hill as is Lowry (who was terrrible in the playoffs for Miami), and Brogdon and Rozier are on the trade block.

I'm fine keeping Brunson at 25 a year if that's what it takes, but those examples aren't the best.

It'll be interesting to see what Indiana and Charlotte get for Brogdon and Rozier since the idea is you can move Brunson later down the road.
How can you not see the point I?m making lol he?s clearly worth 25m
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Old 06-30-2022, 02:02 PM   #639
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Well holy shit

KD is asking out and Suns are preferred destination
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Old 06-30-2022, 02:04 PM   #640
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If KD is granted his wish, what is the point of even having contracts.


And it looks like he will get traded.

Adrian Wojnarowski: Brooklyn Nets GM Sean Marks is working with Kevin Durant and his business manager Rich Kleiman on finding a trade for the franchise star, Kleiman tells ESPN. ? via Twitter wojespn

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