Plan B if D Wade and Lebron go elsewhere - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

CrazyBoy · 05-25-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Why are you comparing him to Dirk? That was mistake number 1, that comparison is stupid. Compare him to Damp or Haywood, or both put together. He has low post skills that we have never had. Even in a down year last year he is a huge upgrade at anything we have had on the blocks.

mistake? dude... are you following the mavs since more then 3 years?

anyway ... jefferson is a power forward - period.
what i've done is plain and simple: i compared a power forward out of position with another power forward out of postion... guess what - dirk is stated as a PF/C ... he even said before this season he would play some center again(they only had dampier at this point, who wasnt healty) like he did in his mid 20s with all the bradley/eschmeyer/diop-failures and where he needed to play the 5 instead of the guys above.
at that time, when dirk played the 5, he had similar stats like jefferson now(even better ones like i stated) and similar athletic... man i even see the same lowpost moves on them. BUT - both can _not_ defend if their lifes are at stake. i've watched enough minnesota games to underline this opinion, in fact: the wolves played BETTER with a real center on the court and jefferson on the bench or at the 4 (in nearly every game he was missed - they played better)... that are some heavy facts dude

and no: he would be no upgrade at anything we have. haywood is indeed a very good lowpost scorer - just watch how he did on his old team. but after all those years with lousy center there seems to be no room in any trainer-playbook for some lowpost plays with the mavericks - you think that would change with a blink of an eye with jefferson arrival?
lets stick with haywood and create some plays with him, remember: he came in the mid-season and had zero prepartion time with the mavs. keep in consideration that haywood is a 10/10 guy this season that actually can clear the paint and defend the hell outter all those bigman teams. even dwight howard gave haywood the credits to be a top center in the league. statswise, haywood is in the top10
i rather take brendan with 7 points less per game while beeing a defensive-stoper then a jefferson who only hits around 4X% compared to brendans 56% hitrate in the paint while jefferson got the ball as double as much as haywood. interesting or ?

Quote:

You give me the credit that he would be center here, like Brand would sub in. What does that mean? Brand also plays Center? So what? You're not gonna ever have a lock down center defensively. Even D Howard hasn't locked down the paint in this series vs Boston. I would rather make the other center work trying to stop Jefferson than have Damp on the floor who can't score or create anything offensively and doesn't exactly shut things down defensively.

seems you dont get the point. even if we sign brand with the #2 from the sixers. brand would never start... same with jefferson. both would come from the bench being the players who substitute for dirk at the 4 or haywood at the 5. by all means you have to keep sure that jefferson and dirk arent at the same time on the court. otherwise you have a defend-wise disaster in the low post zone. its enough that we have a dirk who cant defend and a kidd who cant defend quick guards. we need at least _someone_ who can to it: keeping the big mans out of the zone(worked pretty well) and stopping the quick guards on their way driving to the paint. we cant give haywood enough credit for how well he has done fixing the liability of those two spots alone.

conclusion? as long as we have haywood:
no to jefferson as a starting center.
yes to jefferson from the bench

dont get me wrong jefferson IS a beast. but i doubt he'll fit in the mavs-system. if we lose haywood somehow, we have to rethink the jefferson idea

i hope that comment wasnt to harsh overall... i just want to make clear that we have one of the rare-centers out there that truly can be named as one. not all those Power forwards pretending to be a center.
i desperately hope we resign haywood since we dont land a good center that often (above i named all the failures). we all know he isnt a bogut, oden(healthy) or a howard. but hes close to them - we wont find a better one out there while searching for mr. superstar too

Kidd Karma · 05-25-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Love is the better all around player than Jefferson, and Jefferson and Love like to work at the same spots and don't work together

Love definitely is the better all around player, but his skill sets are not the domineering type that you get from say a Duncan, it maybe good enough for college, but not on a full time basis in the NBA. Jefferson does one thing well and at times he is dominant and that's score on the block. But I think you need to choose one and build a team around him. If you pick jeffeson, you need to surround him with shooters, you pick Love, you surround him with slasher and scorers.

SMC0007 · 05-25-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Love is the better all around player than Jefferson, and Jefferson and Love like to work at the same spots and don't work together

Respectfully disagree.

SMC0007 · 05-25-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

mistake? dude... are you following the mavs since more then 3 years?

anyway ... jefferson is a power forward - period.
what i've done is plain and simple: i compared a power forward out of position with another power forward out of postion... guess what - dirk is stated as a PF/C ... he even said before this season he would play some center again(they only had dampier at this point, who wasnt healty) like he did in his mid 20s with all the bradley/eschmeyer/diop-failures and where he needed to play the 5 instead of the guys above.
at that time, when dirk played the 5, he had similar stats like jefferson now(even better ones like i stated) and similar athletic... man i even see the same lowpost moves on them. BUT - both can _not_ defend if their lifes are at stake. i've watched enough minnesota games to underline this opinion, in fact: the wolves played BETTER with a real center on the court and jefferson on the bench or at the 4 (in nearly every game he was missed - they played better)... that are some heavy facts dude

and no: he would be no upgrade at anything we have. haywood is indeed a very good lowpost scorer - just watch how he did on his old team. but after all those years with lousy center there seems to be no room in any trainer-playbook for some lowpost plays with the mavericks - you think that would change with a blink of an eye with jefferson arrival?
lets stick with haywood and create some plays with him, remember: he came in the mid-season and had zero prepartion time with the mavs. keep in consideration that haywood is a 10/10 guy this season that actually can clear the paint and defend the hell outter all those bigman teams. even dwight howard gave haywood the credits to be a top center in the league. statswise, haywood is in the top10
i rather take brendan with 7 points less per game while beeing a defensive-stoper then a jefferson who only hits around 4X% compared to brendans 56% hitrate in the paint while jefferson got the ball as double as much as haywood. interesting or ?

seems you dont get the point. even if we sign brand with the #2 from the sixers. brand would never start... same with jefferson. both would come from the bench being the players who substitute for dirk at the 4 or haywood at the 5. by all means you have to keep sure that jefferson and dirk arent at the same time on the court. otherwise you have a defend-wise disaster in the low post zone. its enough that we have a dirk who cant defend and a kidd who cant defend quick guards. we need at least _someone_ who can to it: keeping the big mans out of the zone(worked pretty well) and stopping the quick guards on their way driving to the paint. we cant give haywood enough credit for how well he has done fixing the liability of those two spots alone.

conclusion? as long as we have haywood:
no to jefferson as a starting center.
yes to jefferson from the bench

dont get me wrong jefferson IS a beast. but i doubt he'll fit in the mavs-system. if we lose haywood somehow, we have to rethink the jefferson idea

i hope that comment wasnt to harsh overall... i just want to make clear that we have one of the rare-centers out there that truly can be named as one. not all those Power forwards pretending to be a center.
i desperately hope we resign haywood since we dont land a good center that often (above i named all the failures). we all know he isnt a bogut, oden(healthy) or a howard. but hes close to them - we wont find a better one out there while searching for mr. superstar too

Nope. Just none of it makes sense. It's not only inaccurate but it's also just flat out hard to read.

ocelot_ark · 05-25-2010, 10:27 PM

If we could somehow turn Butler, spare parts (not including roddy), and DUST into:

1 of Lebron, Wade, JJ, Iggy
1 of Kaman, Bosh, Jefferson

Yeah - I'm down for that. I'm a big fan of Kaman's game. I've always been impressed with his low post offense. He seems tough'ish. And we know he gets along well with Dirk. Sounds like the exact center we've been missing.

CrazyBoy · 05-26-2010, 05:22 AM

lol SMC0007 thats ridiculous

i give you published statistics that say hawood is the better center, i underline my arguments with proofen facts, giving references from the best centers in the league who say haywood is a top center and you still cant find arguments that favors your point of view. everyone here in this thread is saying that jefferson is no center but a _power forward_ and plays out of position... still you want to add him to the roster as a main center. dude... im seriously think someone might call you an ignorant basketball noob

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

lol SMC0007 thats ridiculous

i give you published statistics that say hawood is the better center, i underline my arguments with proofen facts, giving references from the best centers in the league who say haywood is a top center and you still cant find arguments that favors your point of view. everyone here in this thread is saying that jefferson is no center but a _power forward_ and plays out of position... still you want to add him to the roster as a main center. dude... im seriously think someone might call you an ignorant basketball noob

I underlined all your grammatical failures just in case.... I imagine that the people on this board that have valued opinions have already dismissed you because of that alone.

You haven't "proofen" anything and haven't provided any "published statistics". You have given opinions and really bad examples. Such as comparing him to Dirk.

CrazyBoy · 05-26-2010, 11:03 AM

yeah sounds right - since i made some grammatical errors, all my facts and arguments are wrong.... yikes
you want references?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jeffeal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...haywobr01.html
compare those facts i stated out above. or just hear what everybody is saying about jefferson...

im sorry my english isnt fluent, its only the 4th best language im capable of using in a reasonable way - unless you are able to talk to me in german, spanish, french(all of those 3 i can handle better then english) and a bit of russian you have to accept that im a foreigner who's trying to express myself. so you are a native speaker - you must be pretty proud of yourself pointing out the errors of others.
ok then, i gave you 4 languages you can try to communicate with with - which do you prefer ?
or the other way around: which other languages except of english can you use?

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

yeah sounds right - since i made some grammatical errors, all my facts and arguments are wrong.... yikes
you want references?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jeffeal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...haywobr01.html
compare those facts i stated out above. or just hear what everybody is saying about jefferson...

im sorry my english isnt fluent, its only the 4th best language im capable of using in a reasonable way - unless you are able to talk to me in german, spanish, french(all of those 3 i can handle better then english) and a bit of russian you have to accept that im a foreigner who's trying to express myself. so you are a native speaker - you must be pretty proud of yourself pointing out the errors of others.
ok then, i gave you 4 languages you can try to communicate with with - which do you prefer ?
or the other way around: which other languages except of english can you use?

Hey thanks for the cool links...

wtf

heres another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect

CrazyBoy · 05-26-2010, 01:10 PM

you just proofed how stupid you are

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

you just proofed how stupid you are

And you just gave me a new quote for my sig!

Mav Addict · 05-26-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

you just proofed how stupid you are

You have got to be kidding me....please say you are being sarcastic.....

LOL@ the tags

mac222b · 05-26-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

yeah sounds right - since i made some grammatical errors, all my facts and arguments are wrong.... yikes
you want references?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jeffeal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...haywobr01.html
compare those facts i stated out above. or just hear what everybody is saying about jefferson...

im sorry my english isnt fluent, its only the 4th best language im capable of using in a reasonable way - unless you are able to talk to me in german, spanish, french(all of those 3 i can handle better then english) and a bit of russian you have to accept that im a foreigner who's trying to express myself. so you are a native speaker - you must be pretty proud of yourself pointing out the errors of others.
ok then, i gave you 4 languages you can try to communicate with with - which do you prefer ?
or the other way around: which other languages except of english can you use?

no worries dude. some people around here just like to start static. your english is actually quite good.

CrazyBoy · 05-26-2010, 04:02 PM

oh wow SMC... i wrote proofed instead of proved. blame me

damn, you invented some nice mechanisms how to ignore the opinion of others.
you propose jefferson could be our center and he can replace haywood.
now i come in with digits out of the basketballreference universe, stating facts that demonstrate that your beloved player ISNT a center in fact he is a power forward that plays out of position. after that i made a comparison of dirk who played center for quite some time in his mid 20s(due to infurys of bradley, eschmeyer and diop), like al jefferson is doing it now. just that both cant defend at all. i mean, everyone on this thread coincides that jefferson cant defend like a center should do. you are the only one that still holds onto him
i gave you the stat-numbers which say that they both done quite the same on the court, only dirk were better overall at that time. i also quoted the responses of howard in which he express how good haywood is.
in conclusion i gave you the links that cleary say that haywood is the better center then jefferson. on top you can also check espn-stats to confirm it.

and what is your response?

"you made typos - i dont listen to what you say"

yeah - sure thing. instead of putting some arguments to your proposition you simply dont listen to the facts of professionals (basketballreferences) and nba players (howard)

btw. my offer still holds: we can discuss this topic in french, german or spanish(and maybe in tourist-russian-style) if you speak those languages.
unless like you im an adult, you can be sure that i wont make fun of the typos from others when they didnt speak in there native language

@mac222 - thank you very much

KINGBEEF · 05-26-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

yeah sounds right - since i made some grammatical errors, all my facts and arguments are wrong.... yikes
you want references?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jeffeal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...haywobr01.html
compare those facts i stated out above. or just hear what everybody is saying about jefferson...

im sorry my english isnt fluent, its only the 4th best language im capable of using in a reasonable way - unless you are able to talk to me in german, spanish, french(all of those 3 i can handle better then english) and a bit of russian you have to accept that im a foreigner who's trying to express myself. so you are a native speaker - you must be pretty proud of yourself pointing out the errors of others.
ok then, i gave you 4 languages you can try to communicate with with - which do you prefer ?
or the other way around: which other languages except of english can you use?

i understand german, just got back from germany on sunday.

Underdog · 05-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Is it possible for a mod to delete the last page of this thread?

jthig32 · 05-26-2010, 04:48 PM

Overstatements aside (Hawyood a better low post scorer than Jefferson????), CrazyBoy is absolutely correct that Jefferson would be an awful pairing next to Dirk.

I'm just not really sure how anyone could follow this team for the last decade and be ok with the idea of playing Dirk next to a defensively average (at best) undersized center for the majority of a game.

It.just.won't.work.

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 05:00 PM

You might as well forget about defense being key. As long as Dirk is here were never gonna be a feared team defensively inside unless you have a defensive player of the year at center, then it is most likely at the cost of offense, like with Damp minus the defensive poy. So then once again you have zero low post offense. If you have a presence down low offensively (Jefferson type) and have someone to come off the bench to help sure up the D when needed like Haywood or Damp were in much better position. Still not good enough to win it all imo. But if you end up with a guy with the talent of Jefferson and attempt to bring him off the bench, you're fired.

Why get caught up by the minutes played in a game at this point?

jthig32 · 05-26-2010, 05:08 PM

I'm not caught up in minutes. I'm caught up in putting together a functional team. And this team will not succeed with a below average (defensively) undersized center next to Dirk.

There is no need for a defensive player of the year at center. This team was VERY good defensively with a Damp/Diop combo. There's no reason to completely punt on the idea of defending the paint and protecting the rim just because you have to cover up for one or more defensively subpar players.

Al Jefferson's a really nice player, but he's going to have to play next to a quality defensive player at either C or PF to really be successful.

And this of course leads to my other point in this debate, which is that focusing on low post scoring, in a vacuum, is dumb. Focus on efficient scoring, no matter where it comes from.

sike · 05-26-2010, 06:05 PM

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

Best post in the thread.

This team was not good enough with Damp/Diop, or with an even better duo of Damp and Haywood with a better team surrounding them.

You need to have some low post scoring or the threat at least. It's not dumb, That is a huge weapon. Who was the last team to win it all without it? Perhaps Detroit, even then Sheed and co were able to provide more than we have.

jthig32 · 05-26-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

This team is 2 moves (not involving Wade or James) away...and I would be happy if Jefferson was one of those moves.

Well first of all, if you trade for Jefferson then I seriously doubt Haywood is re-signing here. But even if he you somehow end up with both, I don't understand how Haywood being behind him negates his subpar defensive capabilities. It's not like you only need offense sometimes and defense others. The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim.

I'm just not nearly caught up in the need for a post player as some people have been for years around here. Dirk is already an efficient scoring big man. It doesn't really matter HOW he scores, it's that he does it efficiently. So you already have a player that is dependent on his guards to get him the ball that scores at a high rate and at a great efficiency.

What you need, more than anything else, is someone that can bring the ball up the court and create offense without having to depend on anything else. You need an all star level all around player at the swing position that can penetrate and create offense.

Now, if you want to bring in someone to be a part of the forward/center rotation that can score down low (like Drew Gooden) I'm not completely against that. But it can't be someone that you're depending on to play center on a regular basis. And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-26-2010, 11:06 PM

It's not the lack of low post scoring that's crippled the Mavs in the past. It's the lack of dribble penetration. That's the reason JJB gets so much burn. Isn't that sad?

sike · 05-26-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

Did you just compare Al Jefferson to Drew Gooden? I think you did. Let me say this, if Al Jefferson is as bad a defender as Drew Gooden (who did hustle hard), then I change my mind...I'm not sure anything even like that has been suggested and I know it hasn't been proven.

I agree totally that this team needs an all star level guard that can score efficiently...and in the clutch. So...that leaves us with pretty much just Joe Johnson (bc Iggy is not that guy). I really like JJ, but his game is predicated on the perimeter...and I thought we had finally realized that the rim gets much smaller in the playoffs? They freakin need an all star level guard you can attack the rim. Efficiency is wonderful, but when the shot is falling and the team is depending on you, you have to be able to deliver. And in that situation, I wonder about JJ.

SMC0007 · 05-26-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well first of all, if you trade for Jefferson then I seriously doubt Haywood is re-signing here. But even if he you somehow end up with both, I don't understand how Haywood being behind him negates his subpar defensive capabilities. It's not like you only need offense sometimes and defense others. The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim.

I'm just not nearly caught up in the need for a post player as some people have been for years around here. Dirk is already an efficient scoring big man. It doesn't really matter HOW he scores, it's that he does it efficiently. So you already have a player that is dependent on his guards to get him the ball that scores at a high rate and at a great efficiency.

What you need, more than anything else, is someone that can bring the ball up the court and create offense without having to depend on anything else. You need an all star level all around player at the swing position that can penetrate and create offense.

Now, if you want to bring in someone to be a part of the forward/center rotation that can score down low (like Drew Gooden) I'm not completely against that. But it can't be someone that you're depending on to play center on a regular basis. And I really don't think that is subjective. It's been proven. All you need to look at is what happened to this team defensively when Damp got hurt and Gooden had to play center for the majority of games.

Well being fair, Gooden is not the player Jefferson is so that isn't really proving much in this case. If Jefferson were in Goodens place, you would have had a more efficient scorer with more ability who also makes better decisions and can draw a double team. Huge difference

"The vast majority of the time that Dirk spends on the floor he MUST be next to a center that can not only defend his man, but defend the rim."

Because Dirk can't keep his player from getting to the rim?

CrazyBoy · 05-27-2010, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

too much yelling with certainty when all we have is conjecture, subjective opinion, and hypothesis. Be nice guys.

I agree that Jefferson alone would not vault the Mavs into favored status...only James or Wade could do that in one move.

But I also think that much of Jefferson's supposed defensive liabilities (though no one has taken the time to prove him to be a subpar defensive center thus far) would be negated by having Haywood behind him.

so you think the opinions of pro-nba players about jefferson/haywood dont count? all those sites with defensivstatistics that state that haywood is the way better center dont count too?

ok then whats with the Defensive Composite Score... its not up-to-date though, but it gives you an insight of how well a person performed in this team defensivly.
http://www.82games.com/nichols1.htm
just some examples: al jefferson was way worse than d. harris (!!!), josh howard and erika dampier (at dallas) ... hell

some opinions from hoopshype:
http://hoopshype.com/players/al_jefferson.htm
"Defense needs work" btw. also listed as power forward

prove that the wolves played better when love was on the court instead of jefferson:
http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIN12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIN11.HTM
and look at the 5-man-units... they actually played WAY better when jefferson played his natural power forward position

yet another fact:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010.html
scroll down to advanced statistics and see that love was better in nearly every stat there is (offensiv rating / defensive rating)

to sum it up:
every basketballexpert, every site that provide statistics is saying: jefferson isnt a good center.
i mean, i postet 4 references now and there are still some people out there that think jefferson could fix our center-whole ? i've watched around 10-20 minnesota games complete in this season... everything i saw was a good scorer, that cant defend. but i never felt bad about that, he is a power forward. he produced the same bad defensive rating like dirk did when he played center 7 years ago. i just felt relieved when love was on the court so they had at least a slightly chance to play good defense in the paint - most of the time it worked. there is absolutly NO chance that he(jefferson) will change his gamestyle when he comes to dallas. so a combo of dirk+jefferson on the court will break our neck. every GM will stick to the center that can defend and produce 10 ppg / 10 rebs than having a defensive liabilitie that scores 7pps more - and so do i

@kingbeef
hi king, hast du in deutschland gearbeitet, oder warst du nur zu besuch dort ?

SMC0007 · 05-27-2010, 09:24 AM

Underdog · 05-27-2010, 10:07 AM

It must be nice to control your own destiny...

Quote:

Wade, James, Johnson to talk future

link

Dwyane Wade has a big decision to make on where he'll sign this offseason. And before he makes his choice, he said he'll talk it over with fellow big-ticket free agents LeBron James and Joe Johnson.

Wade told the Chicago Tribune that he's not sure when the three players will talk, but they've been discussing their futures informally for a while now.

"[Free agency] has been three years coming," the Miami Heat superstar told the Tribune. "We've discussed it prematurely, at different times. [But] you don't know what guys are thinking and where they're going. I think we'll all sit down, and before one of us makes a decision, all of us will have spoken to each other and[listened to the] thinking.

"A lot of decisions [will be based on] what other players are willing to do and what other guys want to do. So it's not just a 'me' situation here. We all have to look and see what each other is thinking."

James, coming off back-to-back playoff disappointments with his home-state Cleveland Cavaliers, will be the most sought-after free agent this summer, but Wade should be a close second.

Johnson's stock might have fallen after his lackluster playoff series for the Hawks against the Orlando Magic, averaging just 13 points as Atlanta was swept.

Free agency begins July 1.

One team that could have a problem signing Wade is his hometown Chicago Bulls.

The Bulls have money to spend this offseason and are expected to be one of the main suitors for James, in particular, but will their perceived disloyalty to former stars cost them a chance at the coveted players in the 2010 free-agent class?

"I think the biggest question that you think about has to be loyalty," Wade told the Tribune. "I know one thing about Miami: It is a very loyal organization. I see what they do with their players when their players get done with the game of basketball . . . how loyal they are. I don't know about the Bulls."

In particular, Wade questions why Hall of Famers Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, who led the Bulls to six NBA championships, are no longer with the organization.

"I see Michael Jordan is not there, Scottie Pippen is not there . . . You know, these guys are not a part," Wade told the Tribune. "Things like that. So that is probably one of the biggest things for me, because I am a very loyal person."

Jordan recently became the majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats.

The Bulls, New York Knicks, New Jersey Nets and Wade's Heat have the most financial flexibility to add a prime free agent from the 2010 class, which also includes the Toronto Raptors' Chris Bosh and the Phoenix Suns' Amare Stoudemire.

KINGBEEF · 05-27-2010, 10:09 AM

Tyrus Thomas??? He's tall and he dunks. Good fit in Dallas?

Underdog · 05-27-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

Tyrus Thomas??? He's tall and he dunks. Good fit in Dallas?

With Dirk, Marion and Butler on our roster, he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation... "True" centers and shooting guards should be our focus, not more forwards (besides, if you're gonna get a forward from Charlotte, you might as well go after Gerald Wallace...)

KINGBEEF · 05-27-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

With Dirk, Marion and Butler on our roster, he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation... "True" centers and shooting guards should be our focus, not more forwards (besides, if you're gonna get a forward from Charlotte, you might as well go after Gerald Wallace...)

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

Underdog · 05-27-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

The $6.2mil is the only part that should stand out.

You have to give that up to get him and I doubt Charlotte is going to part with his expiring contract without demanding talent in return.

Barea/Stevenson is about the only package that will get it done, but I doubt they'd see that as "talent in return" (but who knows, they ate that Diop contract without flinching...)

Underdog · 05-27-2010, 10:29 AM

Really, if we're going to add another 'tweener forward/center to back up Dirk, we might as well try to get Drew Gooden on the cheap...

KINGBEEF · 05-27-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The $6.2mil is the only part that should stand out.

You have to give that up to get him and I doubt Charlotte is going to part with his expiring contract without demanding talent in return.

Barea/Stevenson is about the only package that will get it done, but I doubt they'd see that as "talent in return" (but who knows, they ate that Diop contract without flinching...)

I did notice the 6.2 mil but I ignored it because I tired of waiting for July 1st.

Kidd Karma · 05-27-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

well you said the key words that's ringing in my ear: "he'd pretty much be a $6.2mil Najera replacement in the rotation." Which will be an upgrade if you ask me. He's taller than Eddie and on the offensive end he's a threat.

I'd rather have Eddie's heart, hustle and court smarts. Thomas is tremondously gifted, but he hasn't tapped into that potential at all.

Kidd Karma · 05-27-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It must be nice to control your own destiny...

Thanks for posting this article.

History has a way of rearing it's ugly head and the Chicago Bulls is doing just that. Trying to prove that it wasn't MJ is not hurting what the Bulls can do on the open market. I mean you have to wonder what Reinsdorf was doing in 1998 when he essentially cut ties with Phil, MJ and Scottie. I mean sure you want to prove you can build a winning team.....but at what price. Players are not stupid, they see things, they see Magic being a huge part of the Lakers, Kareem too, Dumars in Detroit. Where's MJ, Scottie? Just shows others your loyalty to your players.....Wade and James aren't that ignorant of NBA history to let it pass. You'll probably see 2nd tier players eat up their money, but it won't be bosh-James-Wade. They may use them for leverage, but none of the top 3 will be there.

mac222b · 05-27-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Thanks for posting this article.

History has a way of rearing it's ugly head and the Chicago Bulls is doing just that. Trying to prove that it wasn't MJ is not hurting what the Bulls can do on the open market. I mean you have to wonder what Reinsdorf was doing in 1998 when he essentially cut ties with Phil, MJ and Scottie. I mean sure you want to prove you can build a winning team.....but at what price. Players are not stupid, they see things, they see Magic being a huge part of the Lakers, Kareem too, Dumars in Detroit. Where's MJ, Scottie? Just shows others your loyalty to your players.....Wade and James aren't that ignorant of NBA history to let it pass. You'll probably see 2nd tier players eat up their money, but it won't be bosh-James-Wade. They may use them for leverage, but none of the top 3 will be there.

i hear Ben Gordon is available

Kidd Karma · 05-27-2010, 05:53 PM

Haha, just a little bit off, I'm sure they had visions of MJ-Pippen in Deng-Gordon.

wilmtalk · 05-29-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

It's not the lack of low post scoring that's crippled the Mavs in the past. It's the lack of dribble penetration. That's the reason JJB gets so much burn. Isn't that sad?

Actually it is the combination of both although if I had my choice I would prefer to have a dribble penetrator to a good low post scorer since a dribble penetrator can create low post scoring from sub par posts. We really need a point who has the ability to do so not a three. We do over play JJB because Kidd lacks that skill. The most effective offense is run when the playmaker or player that has the ball in his hands the most is someone who has the ability to create his own shots. This is why the offense runs more efficiantly when the ball goes to Dirk first and he passes off the double teams.

Sorry J. Kidd lovers but when he is not hitting his out side set shots and the rest of the jumpshooters are bricking our offense is becomes entirely dependant on Dirk. When Roddy did play in the playoffs everyone saw the difference it made for the offense.

All in all it would be good to have a team that doesn't have so many glaring weakness as the Mavs do at present. So we do need to get a good defensive post player to play with Haywood providing we resign him. I have serious questions about Jefferson. He is not a good low post defender as evidenced by the Wolves continuing search for a center.

mavsfan4lyfe201 · 05-30-2010, 10:59 PM

lets be real here guys..gettin lebron will likely take a sign and trade..and wed def have to include beaubois.. which is fine if were gettin lebron, but its doubtful..

wade is attainable, but are he and dirk on talkin terms? last i checked they dont like one another..and i get the idea he wants to stay in miami and have boozer/bosh/amare join him..

id be happy with iguodala in dallas.. kidd iggy butler dirk haywood...i like it....

johnson is alot like iggy and would work but iggy provides more slashing..which is what we need badly.