Yankees of the NBA?

[cashhog]

As much as I glad that the Dallas Mavericks have finally obtained an inside presence, there is an immediate problem with the Mark Cuban regime that I feel must be addressed. I appreciate the value of a capitalistic society as much as the next guy, but there are times when things have gone too far. And sadly, as a Texas Rangers fan (and a fan of any lower revenue team beating down on those accursed Yankees / Red Sox), I am quite appalled by Cuban's apparent desire to emulate the Yankees and become their equivalent in the NBA.

Now please understand, I know that the Yankee's formula has worked in the past (although not recently), and I must say that the Mavericks seem to have a similar chance these coming years. But a look at the Mavericks current payroll (and roster), and I begin to wonder what exactly our owner is doing.

So, with the salary cap set at $43.87 million, even without dampier and esch (admittedly we do rid outselves of najera's salary as well as Laettner's which is expiring anyways) our current salary sits at $87,442,313. (link: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm) Parallel that to the Yankees, who in baseball where there is indeed no salary cap, have a payroll at $184,193,950 where the average total team salary is at least half that. Interesting indeed. Now I know the classic Yankee-fan response: You are just jealous of our owner's enormous pocketbook, and you wish your team could do the same. Hmm... I seem to remember a certain owner of our hometown Texas Rangers giving the biggest salary in baseball to a player, which lead our team to an amazing... 217 - 361 record in his 4 years here as the perenial cellar-dwellers of the AL West. (Oh and btw, we were 95 - 67 the year before, and just who knows how this year will turn out. And please, I know there are other circumstances leading to the horrible record; I'm just reporting the facts) In any case, no yankee-fans, we are not jealous of your enormous spending, we just know that paying all that money doesn't always work out. But I digress.

While there is nothing inherently wrong about what cuban and the boss are doing, I think I speak for most of the fans of baseball when I say we hate the yankees, maybe even the red sox (although assuredly I pity them as well), and possibly the angels for their free spending ways. I think I also speak for most baseball fans when I say we appreciate the teams that work hard to draft their own superstars and develop them, which I am proud to say the Rangers seem to be doing extremely well. But the mavs seem to be just morgating their future for the present, and I'm sorry to say I don't see our present being that amazing to begin with.

Something to chew on:
5.1, 11.8, 8.8, 8.0, 7.4, 7.6, 8.2, 12.3. The PPG averages of Dampier throughout his career.
4.1, 8.7, 7.6, 6.4, 5.8, 5.3, 6.6, 12.0. The RPG averages of Dampier throughout his career. Now I don't want to be rude, but I wonder why suddenly out of nowhere, a career 8.9 PPG and 7.2 RPG player averages a double double, and suddenly everybody thinks he's the second coming of... oh right Calvin Booth. So both these players have career years during contract years, and everybody wants a piece of them. Ridiculous. (Although maybe not as ridiculous as several contracts handed out this year since Dampier can "only" get 6 - 9 million a year.)

Take a look at the Maverick's payroll (link above), and you'll see: Wow! We have a lot of big contracts that will be on the book for a while. So here's to hoping that the Mavs do well, because I do not see such a bright future ahead. (Yes I know we have Daniels, Howard and Harris, so do take note that I am pleased with that). Just look: we won't be even close to under teh salary cap until 2007/2008, assuming we pick up options on Harris, Howard and Podkolzin, which I think we would want the team to do.

Anyways, I just thought I'd bring up the parallel, and please don't take this as an attack on the Mavericks. I just thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's take on the situation, and feel free to dispute anything I have said. I'm probably wrong about a lot of the stuff, but man, if the Mavericks indeed are the Yankees of the NBA, I'm not so sure the baseball side of me will like that one bit. In other words, please tell me why the Mavericks are not the Yankees of the NBA, and I'll be happy to listen.

Oh, and I know a few of you will point out that we aren't like the yankees, because we do have young talent (while the Yankees/Red Sox famously have little in their minor leagues). But that really isn't the point. Most of the Yankee haters aren't annoyed by the fact that the Yankees trade away their youngsters for star players, they are annoyed that the Yankees are able to eat up any salary mistakes, outbid any other team, and buy all-star players on a team already composed of many. They are annoyed by a perceived "unfair competitive advantage" that the Yankees possess. Hey I know that sports are ruthless, and it's the championship or nothing; but as a Rangers fan I just don't want the Mavericks to be as universally hated as the Yankees are in the sporting world. I'd rather be hated like people hate the Lakers, who are hated not because of their payroll, but because of the titles they seem to keep winning.

Cheers.

[BaylorTMW]

If we were the Yankess, we would have Shaq and Nash right now, and if not Nash we would definetly have JKidd...

There are parallels, but I just dont think we have been doing it long enough and hard enought to justify the yankees of basketball title...

[vinnieponte]

I'm for what ever it takes to win, and by the way, baseball sucks

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think the Knicks fit more as the Yankees, because they just overpay bad players very often. We overpayed Raef, and Finley...but at least they were our starting center and shooting guard respectively. We also aren't the Yankees, because we would have signed Nash to 65 million and Shaq to 100 million extension. Actually, to be quite frank, you are completely wrong. The Mavs are going the opposite root of overpaying veterans. We have Daniels, Howard and Harris as our future. We are becoming young and athletic. Plus Dampier is a center. You have to overpay, no matter what the past of Damp is, he is a center. Overpay is almost automatic. Haha, also, guess what? The yankees have always had good pitchers. We haven't had a good center in 18 years. Just because the Mavs are strong in all positions now, doesn't mean we're the dumb yankees. Detroit took on a lot of contracts last year, and they won a championship.


Why don't you just think "hey the mavs have a great team now" not...."gee, are we the Yankees" man, the grass certainly is always greener on the other side for some people.

[DubOverdose]

I've always thought of the Knicks as a comparable team to the Yankees. For the amount they pay everyone, they should be a lot better. Granted, the Yankees have the 2nd best record in baseball right now, you'd expect 1st place, just like you'd expect the Knicks to be ATLEAST the second best team in the East.

[DubOverdose]

Because there is a salary cap in the NBA, the Mavs cannot be called the Yankees of basketball. I should even take back my comment on the Knicks being the Yankees of basketball. We cannot outbid teams going after free agents, unless they are our own players. The best we can hope for is a sign and trade in which we lose some of the talent our team already has. The Yankees can just give anyone of their choice a big pay day.

[mavsman55]

The closest thing the NBA has ever had to the Yankees was Los Angeles last year. But there never will be the exact same thing since there is a salary cap in basketball and everyone plays by the same rules.

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: vinnieponte
and by the way, baseball sucks

You have just lost all credibility with me!!!

[endtroducing]

I'm trying to imagine the insanity of the NBA not having a cap...

[V2M]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
I think the Knicks fit more as the Yankees, because they just overpay bad players very often. We overpayed Raef, and Finley...but at least they were our starting center and shooting guard respectively. We also aren't the Yankees, because we would have signed Nash to 65 million and Shaq to 100 million extension. Actually, to be quite frank, you are completely wrong. The Mavs are going the opposite root of overpaying veterans. We have Daniels, Howard and Harris as our future. We are becoming young and athletic. Plus Dampier is a center. You have to overpay, no matter what the past of Damp is, he is a center. Overpay is almost automatic. Haha, also, guess what? The yankees have always had good pitchers. We haven't had a good center in 18 years. Just because the Mavs are strong in all positions now, doesn't mean we're the dumb yankees. Detroit took on a lot of contracts last year, and they won a championship.


Why don't you just think "hey the mavs have a great team now" not...."gee, are we the Yankees" man, the grass certainly is always greener on the other side for some people.

Well said. Couldn't have responded any better myself!

[Hitman]

Originally posted by: mavsman55
The closest thing the NBA has ever had to the Yankees was Los Angeles last year. But there never will be the exact same thing since there is a salary cap in basketball and everyone plays by the same rules.

Everyone plays by the same rules in baseball too.

There is a luxury tax, and George doesn't mind paying it.

[grbh]

Let's refrain from comparisons of Booth to Dampier. Booth's contract year he averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds.

[mary]

The Yankess aren't hated because of their payroll...they're hated because they win all the DAMN time. That's a headache I'd be happy to live with. Secondly, its really wrong to compare MLB and NBA business dealings, since they are really nothing alike. Cuban CAN'T just spend any amount of money that he feels like...he has to meet the conditions of the NBA salary cap rules - that's something Steinbrener doesn't really have to worry about. Finally, relative to their respective sports the Yankees have WAAAYYYY more talent on their roster than the current Mavs.
















Oh yeah...one more thing...baseball does NOT suck...I used to think so once upon a time but then I got a clue.

[cashhog]

Hmm... I lot of you have good points. But I want to make a few things clear:

Quote:
"The Yankess aren't hated because of their payroll...they're hated because they win all the DAMN time. That's a headache I'd be happy to live with. Secondly, its really wrong to compare MLB and NBA business dealings, since they are really nothing alike. Cuban CAN'T just spend any amount of money that he feels like...he has to meet the conditions of the NBA salary cap rules - that's something Steinbrener doesn't really have to worry about. Finally, relative to their respective sports the Yankees have WAAAYYYY more talent on their roster than the current Mavs."

Sorry but I have to disagree on several counts here. The Yankees do not in fact "win all the DAMN time". Over the last 4 years, both the Mariners and the A's have actually won more. And they haven't won a championship in 3 years. So why do people still hate them? Because they can simply outbid any other team, without fear of the luxury tax, which as Hitman pointed out, does indeed exist in baseball (although admittedly it does not limit whether or not any baseball team over the "cap" can offer a humongous contract to another player). In any case, please don't feel that I hate the mavs, or I'm not content with what they have done in the offseason. But just look at the facts:

1. Both the Mavericks and the Yankees don't care about their respective taxes; while the Kings, Lakers, and others actually try to TRIM payroll to get under the luxury tax threshold, Cuban has the ability (and the guts) to not care and suck it up, just like the Boss over in NY.

2. Both teams to a certain extent are willing to trade away their future (in draft picks for the Mavs and in minor league players for the Yankees) for "all-stars" which no other team seems to do quite as frequently.

Anyways, I get the feeling that this was posted in the wrong forum. oh well. Oh, and sorry about the Calvin Booth joke, it didn't really work but I thought it was funny. (Hey, and at least I didn't compare us to the Red Sox)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: cashhog
Hmm... I lot of you have good points. But I want to make a few things clear:

Quote:
"The Yankess aren't hated because of their payroll...they're hated because they win all the DAMN time. That's a headache I'd be happy to live with. Secondly, its really wrong to compare MLB and NBA business dealings, since they are really nothing alike. Cuban CAN'T just spend any amount of money that he feels like...he has to meet the conditions of the NBA salary cap rules - that's something Steinbrener doesn't really have to worry about. Finally, relative to their respective sports the Yankees have WAAAYYYY more talent on their roster than the current Mavs."

Sorry but I have to disagree on several counts here. The Yankees do not in fact "win all the DAMN time". Over the last 4 years, both the Mariners and the A's have actually won more. And they haven't won a championship in 3 years. So why do people still hate them? Because they can simply outbid any other team, without fear of the luxury tax, which as Hitman pointed out, does indeed exist in baseball (although admittedly it does not limit whether or not any baseball team over the "cap" can offer a humongous contract to another player). In any case, please don't feel that I hate the mavs, or I'm not content with what they have done in the offseason. But just look at the facts:

1. Both the Mavericks and the Yankees don't care about their respective taxes; while the Kings, Lakers, and others actually try to TRIM payroll to get under the luxury tax threshold, Cuban has the ability (and the guts) to not care and suck it up, just like the Boss over in NY.

2. Both teams to a certain extent are willing to trade away their future (in draft picks for the Mavs and in minor league players for the Yankees) for "all-stars" which no other team seems to do quite as frequently.

Anyways, I get the feeling that this was posted in the wrong forum. oh well. Oh, and sorry about the Calvin Booth joke, it didn't really work but I thought it was funny. (Hey, and at least I didn't compare us to the Red Sox)

No, CUBAN MADE IT CLEAR, that money does matter. I'm hearing reports now that Dap may get 70 million. Until that is official though, Cuban's stance has been that he won't just give out big contracts. If we didn't care about our taxes, then we would have both Nash and Shaq (if traded to us) right now. Both of them comanded a lot of money. WE DID NOT GIVE NASH 65 MILLION FOR 5 years. How can you back up your argument about not worrying about the taxes after the Mavs let Nash go?

[mary]

Sorry but I have to disagree on several counts here. The Yankees do not in fact "win all the DAMN time". Over the last 4 years, both the Mariners and the A's have actually won more. And they haven't won a championship in 3 years. So why do people still hate them?

Why are we only looking at the last 4 years of baseball? I suppose I was referring to the freakish 26 World Championships they've won. They are a sports dynasty to the highest degree and unless you are a fan of the team, its natural for people to root for underdogs and have a distaste for dynasties. Just take a look at other hated franchises - the Dallas Cowboys, Lakers, (I don't know the hockey equivalent...Redwings?) ...people hate these teams because they win. We're taught to root for David, not Golaith. If these franchises weren't winning franchises (and I'm taking their entiry history into account), nobody would give two flips what their payrolls are.

Sure, there are other reasons people hate the Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers - but if you hate a team, then you're going to find any reason you can to justify your position.

Now, if you want to argue that its easier to build a dynasty with bottomless pockets, that has some merit - but its the winning that pisses people off - not the finances.

Again, its the problem I'd wish the Mavs had - but I think you have to actually just make it to a championship series before you can start down that road.

BTW, I hope you rethink your feeling that you've posted in the wrong forum - we're just having a discussion - that's all.

[cashhog]

haha sorry mary. I just meant that it doesn't really belong in the "trade and draft board" forum. sorry!