tough choice for both teams

[fin4life]

This trade is pretty unlikely because it would put Phoenix in the same 2/3 logjam that the mavs are in... but they havent made a lot of sense this summer so you never know. I am not even sure if the mavs pull the trigger. I just wanted to put another option at SF/PF out there to discuss.

Phoenix trades: SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 40.7 minutes)
SG Casey Jacobsen (6.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 23.4 minutes)
Phoenix receives: SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.4 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and +1.9 apg.

Dallas trades: SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 79 games)
SG Casey Jacobsen (6.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 78 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

PHOENIX- Marion has a long contract that they dont really and is on the block. Howard is a big upgrade over Jacobson. The suns really need help at center so booth makes sense. The only thing that holds up the deal is the fact that theyb will have too many swingmen.

DALLAS- get marion. It is a tough call considering most people have high hopes for howard... but marion might help our team a lot.

[Simon2]

Rather have Howard. He plays the defense the Mavs need. Marion is more desirable just because he has a flashy nickname like 'Matrix'. Maybe its time to get Josh Howard one?

[orangedays]

I think the Mavs definitely do not go through with this one. There are a number of inconsistencies to consider:

1) fin4life pointed out that the trade would create a logjam at the 2/3 for Phoenix, which I disagree with because they are sending away 1 SG and 1 SF (or 2 SF or 2 SG, whatever...all these players are combo) and receiving the same (NB. I contend that at 6'6-218, Stackhouse is not a 3, just a 2 with bad handles).

2) In essence, Dallas is receiving a proven scorer and rebounder for a past scoring champ (00'-01' - 29.8 ppg) and a Marion-type player (extrapolate Howard's numbers to 48 mpg and his stats are strikingly similar to Marion's). So we find ourselves asking...WTF??? Dallas knows Howard's potential, he was a rookie last year and he played Solid for cryin' out loud!

3) Marion is a tweener, undersized to play the 3 but ballsy enough to pull it off. Do we really need more players who are the wrong size for their position on this team (flashback to last year when we had 6'7 Finley at the 3, 7'0 and soft Nowitzki at the 4, and 6'9 Walker at the 5)? Also, note that if this trade goes through, our starting 3 will be giving up 10 lbs to our starting 2 (and Dirk still has better handles than both).

4) The Unified Ball Theorum - Only one ball exists on any one NBA court at any one time. Fact: Marion took more shots than Dirk last year - so we are again confronted with an overload of players who demand the ball (Terry, Dirk, Marion).

5) We are sacrificing significant depth to get our hands on Marion, 3 players from our second string are gone to pick up a single starter (and waivers fodder). Eddie's already gone, and with this trade our only proven backups would be Shawn Bradley and...uh...uh... Why run the risk of doing what Sacto did last year, gutting the bench and succombing to attrition in the playoffs?

Anyways, what I'm trying to communicate is that Marion trade scenarios are not very realistic. Phoenix will likely ask for too much, and Dallas should not do too much more to cut up this team. We tried putting five 20 point scorers on the floor and the result was pretty FUBAR. Our team is strong now, what we need to do now is try and dump some of our more unusable pieces (Henderson, TAW) in some 2-1s and 3-1s and try and pick up some talented (but role-playing) guys. As it is, we have too many projects on this team right now.

[mavs413]

No way we trade Howard.
The Suns probably like Jacobsen more than Howard anyways.
Jacobsen had a good summer league averaging 21ppg ,6rpg ,4apg.
I think Marion will be traded soon because he is at peak value right now. With the strong play of Johnson last year, the signing of Richardson, and Casey's impressive summer league he is also expendable and could be very valuable in getting a Center and/or some solid depth.
Another thing is that they would have drafted Dan Dickau if Jacobsen was gone in the 2002 draft. I dont know if Bryan Colangelo still likes Dickau but he could be a player they might be interested in as a bonus.
Assuming the Dampier trade occurs, how about this?
Phoenix trades:
PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 21.8 minutes)
SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 40.7 minutes)
Phoenix receives:
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)

Dallas trades:
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 67 games)
SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 79 games)
TRADE ACCEPTED

Wonderful trade for both teams IMO.
Terry
Finley
Marion
Nowitzki
Dampier
6th Man - Daniels
We would have a team full of young studs: Dirk 26, Marion 26, Howard 24, Harris 21, Daniels 23, Terry 26, and then you have the potential of Pavel and Mbenga too.
Suns have a lot of depth and would also be a young talented team, while getting rid of their two unfriendly contracts.
Nash,Barbosa
Richardson,Jacobsen
Johnson,Stackhouse
Stoudemire, Zarko/Lampe
Bradley,Voskuhl/Hunter

[DCowboysGal]

Marion is the best rebounding and shot-blocking SF in the NBA, plus he's a solid defender and shooter. Casey Jacobsen is a great spot-up shooter along the lines of Eric Piatkowski or Allan Houston. Both players are also young and about to reach their peak years so I think they could get more for Marion/Jacobsen than Howard/Stackhouse/Booth and they'd especially like to land a big man.

[sike]

Originally posted by: fin4life: This trade is pretty unlikely

not the best way to start a thread [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

usually, if it does not make sense...it don't get done

[chumdawg]

Somewhere I read a rumor that had Marion going to the C's.

[fin4life]

are the "C's" the cavs or celtics???

[DubOverdose]

Originally posted by: fin4life
are the "C's" the cavs or celtics???

or clippers

[DubOverdose]

Originally posted by: DCowboysGal
Marion is the best rebounding and shot-blocking SF in the NBA, plus he's a solid defender and shooter. Casey Jacobsen is a great spot-up shooter along the lines of Eric Piatkowski or Allan Houston. Both players are also young and about to reach their peak years so I think they could get more for Marion/Jacobsen than Howard/Stackhouse/Booth and they'd especially like to land a big man.

Andrei Kirilenko blocks twice as many shots as Marion. AK47 had the 3rd highest bpg average in the NBA. Also, Andrei almost has the same number of rebounds per 48minutes as Marion. Oh what AK47 would do for this team.

[DCowboysGal]

.

[DCowboysGal]

Originally posted by: DubOverdose

Andrei Kirilenko blocks twice as many shots as Marion. AK47 had the 3rd highest bpg average in the NBA. Also, Andrei almost has the same number of rebounds per 48minutes as Marion. Oh what AK47 would do for this team.

Kirilenko played mostly PF in UT last year. Still, would love to have him too.

[dalmations202]

AK47 would be perfect for the Mavs, or any other team in the league. Way past the dreaming stage to think he will be in a Mavs uniform though.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

You're day dreaming if you think Utah would trade Kirilenko,they love the guy,and what we would be offering wouldn't do.

[endtroducing]

yeah, I doubt that Utah trades the best overall player in basketball too, for some reason...

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
yeah, I doubt that Utah trades the best overall player in basketball too, for some reason...

Best overall player in basketball? ? I like AK47, but that title should belong to Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett.....or maybe Kobe, TMac, or Shaq

[Ninkobei]

keyword - Overall. Shaq isn't best Overall by a LONG shot. the guy couldn't hit a 3 pt if his life depended on it. As for the other two, I donno about.

[The Miles]

I think all around is a better way of descrining AK. He just does everything.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Ninkobei
keyword - Overall. Shaq isn't best Overall by a LONG shot. the guy couldn't hit a 3 pt if his life depended on it. As for the other two, I donno about.

And Kirilenko can't guard a 300lb 7'2" man in the paint.

Overall, IMO, means plays both sides of the ball, rebounds, sets picks, etc.

Kirilenko is good, but Shaq beats him in the offense, post defense, rebounding, and ability to set pick categories.

[endtroducing]

blocks. steals. rebounds. scores. he's 6'8 and played almost all of last year out of position. he's what, 23, 24 years old?

no one does all of that consistantly as Kirilenko...I'm not saying he's the BEST in the league, but if you combine all of the things he does well, no one comes close to him in terms of effectiveness.

[seal614]

I think the range of his abilities (AK) is the largest in the league... perhaps the results aren't quite as heavy on paper, but he definitely has a large span of abilities. KG, though, puts up slightly better numbers with much of the same versatility.