What do the Mavs need?

[lonny22]

I feel that a lot of people will acknowledge the Mavs need to reduce the roster, maybe cut down on the 2/3 glut, get a real SF, and get a backup 4. We could also use a good shooter off the bench. With that in mind I have a few thoughts.

There are still some free agents out there the Mavs could use. It creates another roster spot, but the Mavs administration may decide to add players and then do buyouts or dumpoffs. A baseball-type farm team would really help right now. It's hard to stockpile players for now and the future.

Karl Malone- He might come for the vet. minimum and he gives us a chance to win it all.
Toni Kukoc- He shoots, plays many positions, and has a high basketball IQ. I don't know if he takes a lot less money.
Rodney White- Good player, doubt he comes for $1 Million.
Keon Clark- Doubt we get him, but his options may run out.
Marcus Fizer- Doubt he comes, either.

As far as trades go, the Mavs after the Warrior trade don't have a lot of guys left to trade. I doubt the Mavs trade Fin for Vinsanity, so he's off the list. Salaries are approximate and off the top of my head (They're pretty close):

TAW $7.5 Million good for insurance, maybe if team needs 3's.
Henderson $8 Million expiring. In a multi-player trade we wait until October.
Bradley $4 Million good for backup center need.
Booth $5.7 Million good for backup center duty. Must wait until September for big trade.
Stackhouse $7 Million and desirable. Trade moratorium is up next week.
Steffanson $1 Million is cheap and reduces roster in trades. Will the Mavs keep him for the future?
Eschmeyer $3.2 Million and not wanted. Can't make big trade until October.
Dickau $800,000 and here until October for big trade.

I looked at every team's roster to see who had open spots and who need to reduce like the Mavs. I found that most teams without enough players either have players with salaries like the Mavs or a player(s) that they won't trade. Phoenix isn't on the list because Bradley and Booth aren't good enough to lose Marion and they won't want Stackhouse. Here's the list:

Utah doesn't have the salaries, but they might take Bradley for a draft pick. It's hard for me to pick between Bradley and Booth, but somebody has to go with 6 centers on the roster. The Jazz would probably rather have Shawn. I wish they'd take Eschmeyer instead of the Mavs buying him out.

Denver has spots and money. One of the centers might go for a pick.

The Nets have spots and 2 big trade exceptions. They could take a center and Henderson or TAW. I doubt they take TAW.

We might trade with the Raptors. I doubt the Vince rumors, but we could be in the market for Rose and Donyell. We'd fess up Stackhouse, a center, and Henderson. If you take out Donyell, it's Stack and Henderson. I can't speculate on TAW going, but I feel between the 2 wounded warriors he's less desirable because of Hendu's expiring contract.

The Knicks amazingly have roster spots with the highest payroll. We could fetch the Thomas Twins and Anderson or just 2 of them. That would be TAW, Henderson, Stackhouse, and Booth for all 3. Bradley, Esch, and Stef are the wrong color to be traded to the Knicks.

Last is the Bucks. They have a shortage of 2/3's, but I'm asking for Van Horn and Joe Smith. The Mavs would part with Stackhouse, a healthy and only healthy TAW, and Henderson or a center. Van Horn could go for Stack and TAW by himself.

Buyouts are an option. They might as well buy Esch out.

Avery not signing creates one spot.

How much can we really expect from Stef since we have a lot of guys in the backcourt? I hate to cast off players, but there is only 1 ball.

I like keeping Bradley and Booth as the backups for Dampier. I don't want to trade them for draft picks.

Could TAW play in Dallas this year? He's actually a SF, but costs a lot. They might as well buy him out if we can't trade him and they won't play him.

Will Henderson be healthy? He could be a decent backup if he's healthy. He won't get bought out.

Stack is a mystery. We better get somebody good if we don't keep him.

Please discuss. This is a good opportunity for the Mavs to win it all if they play all their cards right in the next 2 months.

[dalmations202]

The Mavs need one good SF. Preferably moving one or two of the 2/3 tweeners to get him.

Thoughts:
Bradley does not need to be gone, he needs 15-20 min a game.
TAW, Esch, Henderson --- gone if anyone has an inkling for them or a draft pick. If not, then they may all be drawing the 80% insurance and be 13,14,15.

AJ, I hope will coach only, but if he wants a spot, then he gets it.

Terry, Harris will be the PG for the start of the year. Hopefully Dickau can become a 3pt sniper.

Daniels, Finley, Stackhouse, Howard --- all 2/3 tweeners -- Fin is your only shooter though, the others are slashers. None over 6'7" (Fin) -- Daniels, Stack, and Howard are 6'6" --- although Howard has that 7' reach. Hard to guard the 6'10" players like Peja, and R. Lewis though at 6'6".

Nowitzki is really the only PF on the list. Maybe Benga - no offense. Maybe Booth if he has too.

Dampier, Bradley, Booth, Benga, PPod. -- Benga and PPod are going to get very little playing time.

Starting 12 as of now, IMO:
Terry, Harris, Dickau
Daniels, Finley
Howard, Stackhouse
Nowitzki, Benga
Dampier, Bradley, Booth

PPod, Stefansson - overseas
AJ coaching
Esch, Henderson, TAW -----IR

If the Mavs could make one more trade: it will free up the position and maybe allow for another rook to stay.
Stackhouse/Howard for Peja, Lewis, Kirilenko, Artest : any of these I think work
or
Stackhouse/Henderson for Vince Carter, Marion, or KVH : any one of these I think will work

KVH is probalby the most realistic, but the Peja deal has the most upside.

I really think that something to reduce the roster is already in the works and will probably be finalized after the 24th. I am just not sure what that "homerun" is.

[DubOverdose]

I say it should be:
PG: Terry, Harris, Stefansson
SG: Finley, Daniels
SF: Howard, Stackhouse
PF: Dirk, Benga (played some PF in the summer league and is athletic enough to cover SFs too, could be great to have a frontcourt of Benga, Dirk, and Dampier)
C: Dampier, Bradley, Booth

IR: Dickau, Pavel, Henderson (store him here so he can be traded eventually or bought out to pickup a FA during the season like we did with Williams last year)

Buyout: TAW, Esch

I'd definitely trade TAW and Henderson for 2 second round picks.

Stefansson and Dickau can compete for the 12th active roster spot. I think Stefansson would get the nod over Dickau, but who knows. I really hope we see Stefansson suit up this season.

I don't know where Pavel really belongs if he does play in Europe next season, so I put him on the IR. Eventhough we need the slots open, I'm opposed to sending him overseas unless we provide a bigman coach to work with him EVERYday.

[lonny22]

I think the Mavs are stuck. DJ and P-Pod are under contract and have to be on the roster. With everything in mind, I think they have a roster reducing trade out there. They might buy out Esch. They won't buy out Hendu or TAW. Either Avery or Dickau goes.

[fin4life]

PPOD can go to europe... so he doesnt have to be on the roster

[lonny22]

That's a good option for P-Pod if we can carry more than 15 under contract during the year. I thought we were limited to 15 under contract when the season started.

[fin4life]

i think technically it is 15 players on your NBA roster... not 15 players under contract. I could be wrong though.

[V2M]

Originally posted by: fin4life
PPOD can go to europe... so he doesnt have to be on the roster

He's our 1st round pick and has got a guaranteed contract. Even if he's sent to Europe, I don't think that clears a roster spot.

[V2M]

Originally posted by: fin4life
i think technically it is 15 players on your NBA roster... not 15 players under contract. I could be wrong though.

What's the difference? Once you sign a player to a contract, he's on the roster. If it's non-guaranteed contract (Steph), he can be released as and when needed to clear a spot. If it's a guaranteed contract like all the others we got, we're stuck with 'em unless we either trade 'em or buy out if the player agrees to it.

[EricaLubarsky]

I am reading up on a 6'7" guy with mad hops, who shoots the three at above 40%, Averages 5.2rpg and 3.8apg for his career, had a steal for every TO last year, and is a very competent overall scorer.

Who is it?

Michael Finley. He may be better at the 2 spot but if he is told to bulk up and work on his outside shot, he could be a viable option at the 3. He never slashed like a two anyway. All this thinking that we need a 3 is rediculous. The real question should be, "can we upgrade the 3". KVH isnt an upgrade on Finley in the categories of overall speed/quickness, and defense. KVH brings us more rebounding but substantially more TOs and worse defense.

[fin4life]

EL, i completely agree that finley can play the 3 just fine... but if we can find a good player who can player the 3 and the 4, it would be killing 3 birds with one stone.

1. Get a good backup for dirk for 10-15 minutes per game
2. Clear up the logjam... if he is being used at the 4 he wont use all his minutes at the 3, only about 18-20.
3. Clear up roster spots... I am only suggesting players with large contracts so he can be traded for stack/hendu or stack/booth (or any conbination involving stack)

It would allow Fin and Marquis to play 30+ minutes per game, the new guy to play 28-30 minutes per game, and josh howard to play more than 20 minutes per game.

Dirk(35)/ New Guy (13)
New Guy (15)/J-Ho (22)/Fin(11)
Fin(19)/ Daniels (29)

NOTE: Last week I would have given Daniels 3-5 minutes per game at PG but with Dickau... we dont need to. That would have given the New guy and J-ho some more time.

I think that gives everly player what they deserve. Maybe Daniels will play a little less and howard plays a little more. It preserves Dirk and Fin's careers because theyb dont get overplayed.

[dalmations202]

Michael Finley. He may be better at the 2 spot but if he is told to bulk up and work on his outside shot, he could be a viable option at the 3. He never slashed like a two anyway. All this thinking that we need a 3 is rediculous. The real question should be, "can we upgrade the 3". KVH isnt an upgrade on Finley in the categories of overall speed/quickness, and defense. KVH brings us more rebounding but substantially more TOs and worse defense.

EL, I agree that Fin can play some 3. He is substantially better at the 2 though.
I also agree that KVH is not an upgrade from Fin at speed/quickness, nor on the offensive end of the floor.
He is 6'10" though, and can play some 3 and backup 4. He is not my first choice though.

Fin can't guard Peja, Kirilenko, and R. Lewis just because he gives up too much height. KVH does pretty well against them.
KVH can't keep up with Magette, Marion, etc.... Fin does pretty well against them. Both have upside and downside.

Question?
Can we agree, that we have too many 2/3 tweeners presently on the roster?

If we can agree on that, can we agree that an upgrade at the 3 and backup 4 is the position that should be upgraded, provided that the 5 has been upgraded?

Who would you suggest? ? Or would you suggest that we keep the current roster, and do "buy outs"?

[fin4life]

[quote]
Originally posted by: dalmations202

If we can agree on that, can we agree that an upgrade at the 3 and backup 4 is the position that should be upgraded, provided that the 5 has been upgraded?

Who would you suggest? ? Or would you suggest that we keep the current roster, and do "buy outs"?

I made a list of suggestion on another thread called "SF/PF with big contracts". The guys on that list that make the most sense IMO are KVH, Rashard Lewis, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Tim Thomas, and Shawn Marion. Some of those guys are more availible than others.

Another thing... i wouldnt consider it as upgrading from finley. I consider it getting a guy who is more versitale than stackhouse and plays the positions that we need him to.

[dalmations202]

[quote]
Originally posted by: fin4life

Originally posted by: dalmations202

I made a list of suggestion on another thread called "SF/PF with big contracts". The guys on that list that make the most sense IMO are KVH, Rashard Lewis, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Tim Thomas, and Shawn Marion. Some of those guys are more availible than others.

Say no to Tim Thomas, no to Shareef (he wants to be a starting 4), no to Shawn Marion (he is only 6'7" and a true SF only)

That leaves KVH and Rashard Lewis on your list. I would add Peja (but it will never happen) to that list and Kirilenko, Prince (also never happen).

So, does Dallas have the assetts to get either of these two? If you get R.Lewis, isn't he a starter? KVH could come off the bench and become a 6th man in various roles. The truth is; Stackhouse is more talented, and Howard will be a better player against most SF in the league. The problem is, the teams that play Dallas that have these players match up far too well against them.

Dallas will have a problems with teams that have the tall SF, if they do not make a trade for one.

Another thing... i wouldnt consider it as upgrading from finley. I consider it getting a guy who is more versitale than stackhouse and plays the positions that we need him to.

Good point. I like the way you phrase that.

IMO,
Dallas has 4 2/3 tweeners. All have skills. I expect Daniels and Fin to be here. They are the 2/3 with Daniels playing some backup 1 and Fin playing some backup 3. Howard is young and vastly improving, and with his wingspan, <u> may</u> be that big SF Dallas is looking for.
Stack may be the perfect 6th man with his slashing.

I wouldn't make another trade, unless it involved, a 2 for 1 or three for 1, and brought in a very legitimate SF, who can play some D, backup the 4, and force teams to play Dirk with a PF. I believe the 5 listed above: Peja, RLewis, Kirilenko, Prince, and KVH are the only players (although I probably missed 1 or 2) that could really vastly improve this team now (excluding Shaq).

[fin4life]

i consider TIm Thomas to be a good option (although most people dont). I really think he brings a lot to the table. He can score from inside and Outside. He is just as big as KVH. He plays pretty good defense. He plays the 3/4 and is very athletic. I dont think he can gaurd big SFs and smaller SFs. I would give up Stack/Booth/Steff in a heartbeat to get tim thomas. I would also do a stack/Bradley/Henderson/steff for tim thomas/jerome williams trade.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: fin4life
i consider TIm Thomas to be a good option (although most people dont). I really think he brings a lot to the table. He can score from inside and Outside. He is just as big as KVH. He plays pretty good defense. He plays the 3/4 and is very athletic. I dont think he can gaurd big SFs and smaller SFs. I would give up Stack/Booth/Steff in a heartbeat to get tim thomas. I would also do a stack/Bradley/Henderson/steff for tim thomas/jerome williams trade.

I admit that I haven't watched TThoms much, and know very little about him. I just know that his stats are not good. He doesn't seem to rebound well, in fact I think Fin has better rebounding numbers, and that is the problem most have with Fin getting all the minutes at SF.

You say " I don't think he can guard big SFs and smaller SFs". I think we have the smaller SFs covered with Fin, Daniels, Stack, and Howard. Isn't someone who can cover the Bigger SF's what the team is looking for ? ?

[fin4life]

i meant to say that i DO think that he can cover big and small SFs. it was a typo

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: fin4life
i meant to say that i DO think that he can cover big and small SFs. it was a typo

ah, makes more sense now.

If he could cover the big SF and the quicker PF's.......I'd say keep him in the mix.

[fin4life]

his rebounding is the only thing about his game that concerns me. for his career he doesnt even average 5. I cant imagine why he only gets 4 board per game considering he is a 6'10" SF. I would still do it because he still rebounds better than stack. He is younger, more athletic, better at defense, and plays more important positions thatn stackhouse. It also trims our roster.

If we do the jerome williams/tim thomas trade.. we will be recieving a guy that is a pure rebounder (even though it would be tough to get him minutes). He would help us more than Henderson if we ever had an injury.

[EricaLubarsky]

Where will we find time for Daniels, Finley and Stackhouse if one of them doesnt play the Small Forward position?

[endtroducing]

EL, that's why it makes more sense to me to start Stack...he gives the offense an incredible amount of balance, and Marquis would be a great sixth man...it would set up a pretty nice rotation of Stack, Howard and Daniels so they all get their minutes...

[fin4life]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Where will we find time for Daniels, Finley and Stackhouse if one of them doesnt play the Small Forward position?

Well we are trading stackhouse... so most of stack's minutes would go to the new guy along with 12 minutes at PF.

[bernardos70]

You guys are underestimating Finley as usual. I remember seeing Brad Miller on the Kings trying to post up Mike, back him down, and Mike didn't give up any ground, making Brad have to shoot a tough one.

[seal614]

hmmm the Mavericks NEED

Keith Van Horn
Vince Carter
Shawn Marion
[insert All-star, or former All-star @ any position here]

oh wait nevermind

[Mavs414]

i would love to get lewis, carter or marion

[Mavs414]

opps

[Mavs414]

sorry i press it to many times[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

[DCowboysGal]

I wouldn't want K. Van Horn as we need defense at the PF position behind Nowitzki. Van Horn loathes physical play and is a poor rebounder as well. He would offer good shooting off the bench but we'd already have an abundance of offense from the bench from guys like D. Harris and whoever among Daniels/Finley/Howard is shunted to backup SG/SF.

Tim Thomas isn't particularly great defensively, but he does have the agility, length and wingspan to become at least decent and defend anyone from the 1 to the 4. He's also a solid ball-handler (another guy who could bring the ball down the court) at the SF position and both PHI and MIL at one point thought he could actually be a decent tall PG (LAC also considered doing this with Lamar Odom). He's humble enough not to demand the ball every play and might be happy being a complementary scorer rather than a main option.

[fin4life]

I also think that Tim Thomas is a great option for the mavs... but not many other people do. The biggest reason is probaly his rebounding, he averages less than 5 boards for his career. Even with this, I would still offer stack + booth/hendu for him.

[sike]

question: what do the Mavs need?
answer: time

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: sike
question: what do the Mavs need?
answer: time

How about time, chemistry, and a little luck ?

[sike]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

How about time, chemistry, and a little luck ?

that was inclued in "time" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[seagullstalker35]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

although Howard has that 7' reach. Hard to guard the 6'10" players like Peja, and R. Lewis though at 6'6".

i dont think howard will have a problem guarding the bigger sfs of the league. like you said hes got that 7 foot reach. it doesnt matter how high your head is. its how long your reach is that counts

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: seagullstalker35

i dont think howard will have a problem guarding the bigger sfs of the league. like you said hes got that 7 foot reach. it doesnt matter how high your head is. its how long your reach is that counts

Yes, but RLewis starts at 6'10" and then has that wingspan as well.

[EricaLubarsky]

Yes, but RLewis starts at 6'10" and then has that wingspan as well.

How many Lewises are there and how many times has Lewis really destroyed us?

[alby]

once again we love to overreact on trying to build a team to defend against one position or one guy (shaq) and here we go again with r.lewis. how many of you honestly believe that we're even going to have to worry about the sonics during playoff time? how about we make a team where they have to defend us? peja can not hang with our smaller and quicker players at the three spot whether it is fin or jhow. yes height and/or reach has alot to do with your effectiveness on the defensive end but if you have good positioning and coaching, that outweighs the lack of height, athleticsm, or even talent. we have a strong starting five with terry, quis or stack, fin, dirk, dampier with a very deep, young bench. we really dont need to trade for a backup pf, booth will do just fine. most of the 4's in the west are bangers anyway, the only one that excels on the outside is dirk himself. with a rotation of dirk/dampier/booth/bradley, we have probably one of the tallest front courts in the game that will allow our perimeter defenders to gamble a little more than prevoius years. we have one of the quicker guard rotations in the game as well including terry/harris, quis/how. the mavs have built a pretty well balanced team with a veteran core surrounded with young players that will only get better as they develop.

[jayC]

The mavs need time. As far as players go a backup powerforward maybe more valuable at this stage in the game. In order for Stackhouse, Finley, Daniels and Howard to recieve playing time one fo them has to play small forward. El said the same thing.

I could see maybe acquiring Croshere from the Pacers. He seems to be the perfect nellie player. I would love to acquire Marion, but Phoenix wouldn't trade him to us.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

How many Lewises are there and how many times has Lewis really destroyed us?

Realistically, there is only one Rashard Lewis. Yes, he has done well against the Mavs before.

But their is also Peja, Marion, KVH, Magette, Artest, Vince Carter, Prince and Tracy McGrady who are better at offense than the Mavs SF's are at defense. Also, we can't move a larger SF over to guard a special SG like Ray Allen or Kobe because all of them are 2/3's and approximately the same height. Too much of a good thing, allowing for mismatches.

If Denver throws a lineup of Camby, Nene, and KMart at you, who are you going to defend them with? I am not saying that the Mavs couldn't beat them anyway, but as the Mavs are currently made up....SF is a weakness.

My want of a tall SF is not about dissing the current players or about "get this all-star". It is about analyzing the teams strengths and weaknesses, and seeing what would make this a better team. A tall SF, who can defend and shoot the 3, would allow many more opportunities for Dirk because a taller SF would be required to guard the SF then, and not allowed to guard Dirk out on the floor. As the current lineup sits, teams can guard the Mavs 2/3 with a SG, and just have them force the ball into the shot blockers. That leaves a SF on Dirk, like Peja, Artest, Kirilenko, and Rashard Lewis.

It is just one more contingency that the Mavs will face. Yes, I hope they overcome the minor issues. I am just saying that IMO, the Mavs would be better off with a tall SF who can play the 3/4, than with 4- 2/3's that are 6'6" or 6'7".

[endtroducing]

Bradley, Dampier, Booth, Dirk...we've got the bodies to deal with Denver, I'm sure. let's just go get Croshere and start the season.

[Dooby]

Maybe I am drunk:

The "time" thing is a great response.

Personally, I think we are fine at the small forward position between Howard, Finley and Stackhouse. Although, ideally, we'd have a set true small forward, but you can't have a name guy at every position.

But looking at the roster, I see two needs. First, be nice to have a backup PF. Not a stud, but a body that can defend and play a little.

Second, we need the second-coming of Steve Kerr: a clutch shooter that can come off the bench and hit the three-pointer consistently and play a little defense. How about Jon Barry? He isn't signed yet.