Nerlens Noel - Page 13 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 08-11-2017, 10:17 AM

No way in hell do we bring Noel off the bench if we lock him up to a longterm contract, no way in hell does he stick around if he's coming off the bench while playing on a qualifying offer. If our "young core" is DSJ/Barnes/Noel, then I fully expect all of those guys to be starters.

And a 3&D guy like Wes is EXACTLY what we need next to DSJ at the 2... I get that Seth is most effective as a starter, but I think Wes has higher upside for this team if he can become a catch & shoot guy again. Not to mention that Rick will play a lineup of DSJ/Seth/Wes/Barnes/Noel when Dirk gets subbed out. I can see Seth being a "heavy minutes 6th man" a la Jason Terry, which should suit him just fine and allow him to get into a rhythm.

EricaLubarsky · 08-11-2017, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

And a 3&D guy like Wes is EXACTLY what we need next to DSJ at the 2... I get that Seth is most effective as a starter, but I think Wes has higher upside for this team if he can become a catch & shoot guy again. Not to mention that Rick will play a lineup of DSJ/Seth/Wes/Barnes/Noel when Dirk gets subbed out. I can see Seth being a "heavy minutes 6th man" a la Jason Terry, which should suit him just fine and allow him to get into a rhythm.

I agree that Wes as a 3/D guy exclusively will be a really nice fit if we have offensive movement from the guards, but Matthews' best position is SF now.

60% - the time he spent at SF last year.
-2.0 - the PER differential between him playing SG and SF
-2.7 - the net PER (his PER minus opponent PER) differential playing SG vs. SF

Most of his minutes were at SF, his individual performances were better at SF, and his defense/net positional PER was better with him at SF. His offensive efficiency, rebounding, assist numbers, turnover numbers, and eFG were all better for him when he played SF. The SG position has gotten smaller and quicker and at 6'6"/30 years-old, he may not have the speed it takes to play SG

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-11-2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, Mathews off the bench isn't going to happen, and it's for the same reasons I expect Noel to start. You have to set a defensive tone if you can and their salary is tough to swallow as bench/role players. Mathews can not come off the bench and provide scoring the same way Seth can so once you get past the starting group and the tone you are trying to establish, the minutes can be given out in the flow, and Wes can sink or swim imo.

I know Wes won't come off the bench, but I disagree with you. 1. He'd play less minutes which is best for his long term health. 2. He'd have more of a green light to chuck up those threes he loves to take. He'd be the perfect two-way player off the bench since he provides both offense and defense. 3. His contract really isn't that bad with the CBA where it is. I don't think there is any extra pressure to start him.

The problem with bringing Seth off the bench is that the FO wants to keep him long term. If you do that, then I think you might damage the ego a bit.

SMC0007 · 08-11-2017, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I agree that Wes as a 3/D guy exclusively will be a really nice fit if we have offensive movement from the guards, but Matthews' best position is SF now.

60% - the time he spent at SF last year.
-2.0 - the PER differential between him playing SG and SF
-2.7 - the net PER (his PER minus opponent PER) differential playing SG vs. SF

Most of his minutes were at SF, his individual performances were better at SF, and his defense/net positional PER was better with him at SF. His offensive efficiency, rebounding, assist numbers, turnover numbers, and eFG were all better for him when he played SF. The SG position has gotten smaller and quicker and at 6'6"/30 years-old, he may not have the speed it takes to play SG

Wes is 6'5" in heels. not 6'6.

I wouldn't fully buy stock those PER numbers when the rest of our roster especially PG was in disarray. You were the main proponent of how the PG effected Wes the most last season, and if that line of thinking is right, we don't need him to handle the ball anymore so he should be just fine 3/d at SG. You put him in at SF, it throws the rest of the lineup off, and we lose our balance of defense and rebounding. It's not worth judging everything based on last year when we now have a PG who can pretty much get anywhere he wants most of the time.

SMC0007 · 08-11-2017, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I know Wes won't come off the bench, but I disagree with you. 1. He'd play less minutes which is best for his long term health. 2. He'd have more of a green light to chuck up those threes he loves to take. He'd be the perfect two-way player off the bench since he provides both offense and defense. 3. His contract really isn't that bad with the CBA where it is. I don't think there is any extra pressure to start him.

The problem with bringing Seth off the bench is that the FO wants to keep him long term. If you do that, then I think you might damage the ego a bit.

Okay, but I don't think anyone who comes off the bench is locked into less minutes. Rick is gonna roll with who is hot, and almost always has. If Seth comes in and is rolling, he's gonna stay in until he needs a break at the cost of whoever isn't. Then he will be right back out to see if we can ride the lightening. I don't see Wes as an offensive threat unless he has others setting him up, so imo he will always need someone else who penetrates and or works in the post.

To me the key to this seasons start and not falling into a hole is setting a tone with defense and rebounding from the start. Everything else will fall into place or we don't stand a chance anyway. We aren't going to outscore contenders anymore.

Bryan_Wilson · 08-11-2017, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, Mathews off the bench isn't going to happen, and it's for the same reasons I expect Noel to start. You have to set a defensive tone

This.

Bryan_Wilson · 08-11-2017, 12:10 PM

4 mins into the game Dirk will get subbed out for whichever isn't in the SL anyway, making Wes the SF. So I'm not sure any of this matters really.

SMC0007 · 08-11-2017, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

4 mins into the game Dirk will get subbed out for whichever isn't in the SL anyway, making Wes the SF. So I'm not sure any of this matters really.

It really doesn't, I was tempted several times to mention it but I really hope to drive the point of setting a tone and having a balanced lineup to start games. The thing that sticks out to me most is how often we started out in a hole or without any legit defensive presence in games, especially to begin the year when we didn't have Noel.

texasbball · 08-11-2017, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Some people...like pretty much every german poster here...or Dirk himself. That nick was neither funny or creative etc. Good that you got rid of it.

I've thought about this really hard. I know people were offended, so that's why I'm posting this. I NEVER intended to offend. The reaction caught me a bit off guard. Honestly, it makes me feel old. I'm sure I'm older than most here. Not all. I grew up in the 60s-70s. We looked at things differently.

1) In football, ever heard of "blitzing the quarterback"? Where do you think the term came from?
2) I think my mind thought of that name, and saw it as no big deal, because I played a war board game called... "BlitzKrieg" as a kid. A lot. With lots of friends. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4168/blitzkrieg
3) We separated out the evilness of NAZIism as an ideology, but still respected how one relatively small bankrupt country could almost dominate the world. It's how "blitz" came into use. Star Trek, and yes, I was a big nerd about it, dealt with this issue, as an example. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708442/
4) The term means,"Lightening Warfare". I thought it would be appropriate as to how I hoped Dirk would score and dominate the league.

This is how I came to make what turned out to be a bad decision. I am truly sorry to those who found, and find, offense. I meant no harm or disrespect, and obviously, I won't mention this again.

rimrocker · 08-11-2017, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

And a 3&D guy like Wes is EXACTLY what we need next to DSJ at the 2... I get that Seth is most effective as a starter, but I think Wes has higher upside for this team if he can become a catch & shoot guy again. Not to mention that Rick will play a lineup of DSJ/Seth/Wes/Barnes/Noel when Dirk gets subbed out. I can see Seth being a "heavy minutes 6th man" a la Jason Terry, which should suit him just fine and allow him to get into a rhythm.

Completely agree and I'll add that I think Wes' strong leadership skills will help expedite DSJ's development.

I see a great backcourt situation for the Mavs....DSJ will improve Wes' game and Wes will be a strong influence on DSJ's development. In addition, Yogi/Curry was great chemistry as well last season and that could be a lethal punch off the bench. Then you have JJ/Harris as even more veteran firepower and leadership from the bench.

Gotta love our backcourt situation going into the season....especially considering how dismal it looked at this time last season.

purplefrog · 08-11-2017, 04:04 PM

If the stats show Wes is best at SF, and Seth is best at SG, and HB is best at PF, and therefore thats 3/5 of your starting lineup then the Mavs simply are not going to win that many games. That group cannot rebound. Period. Stats may show they are at their best when playing that position, but their best is not likely good enough to make this team competitive. Its fine if you want to roll out a team that is destined for the lottery, but not so good if you want to compete with playoff teams in the West. Maybe that's reality. But, I would like to see the MBT address the rebounding deficiencies we saw last year. Can DSJ help fill that void? He's probably better than anything the Mavs have had since JKidd, but I still don't think it is enough. I think a trade for a rebounding SG or SF would be an improvement. If that means moving Wes or Seth then it would likely be the best next step. Noel needs to play significant minutes and they need someone else along the frontline to help with rebounding. Maybe thats a year or two off in the future... again it depends on how the MBT sees the upcoming season.

EricaLubarsky · 08-13-2017, 06:23 PM

Vote now in the new poll. Closing late September when most people agree that the issue will be settled.

sefant77 · 08-13-2017, 07:44 PM

Its all because of the crappy Blazers, they need to spend their cap space (re-signing Len or pissing away it in a trade). Could take longer because they are going after Carmella.

But once the final team is gone Noels agent has no arguments anymore and then he takes the 16-18m

Murphy3 · 08-14-2017, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasbball

I've thought about this really hard. I know people were offended, so that's why I'm posting this. I NEVER intended to offend. The reaction caught me a bit off guard. Honestly, it makes me feel old. I'm sure I'm older than most here. Not all. I grew up in the 60s-70s. We looked at things differently.

1) In football, ever heard of "blitzing the quarterback"? Where do you think the term came from?
2) I think my mind thought of that name, and saw it as no big deal, because I played a war board game called... "BlitzKrieg" as a kid. A lot. With lots of friends. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4168/blitzkrieg
3) We separated out the evilness of NAZIism as an ideology, but still respected how one relatively small bankrupt country could almost dominate the world. It's how "blitz" came into use. Star Trek, and yes, I was a big nerd about it, dealt with this issue, as an example. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708442/
4) The term means,"Lightening Warfare". I thought it would be appropriate as to how I hoped Dirk would score and dominate the league.

This is how I came to make what turned out to be a bad decision. I am truly sorry to those who found, and find, offense. I meant no harm or disrespect, and obviously, I won't mention this again.

Liked the old name...but this one works as well.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-14-2017, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Its all because of the crappy Blazers, they need to spend their cap space (re-signing Len or pissing away it in a trade). Could take longer because they are going after Carmella.

But once the final team is gone Noels agents has no arguments anymore and then he takes the 16-18m

Len is a RFA of the Suns.

sefant77 · 08-14-2017, 10:39 AM

Yeah i meant the Suns, not the Blazers

sike · 08-16-2017, 02:26 PM

where is this dude's money?

SMC0007 · 08-16-2017, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

where is this dude's money?

He won't answer my text...

Underdog · 08-20-2017, 01:08 PM

FINALLY

sefant77 · 08-20-2017, 02:18 PM

What a surprise...he fired his agent

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Ma...441062453.html

Underdog · 08-20-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

What a surprise...he fired his agent

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Ma...441062453.html

Dan Fegan owes us after Dwight and DeAndra... Hopefully we get this wrapped up ASAP.

sefant77 · 08-20-2017, 02:46 PM

Maybe he listens to Fegan and understands that 2017 isnt 2016. And that 2018 will be probably even worse (less money, more and better guys on the market).

Underdog · 08-20-2017, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Maybe he listens to Fegan and understands that 2017 isnt 2016. And that 2018 will be probably even worse (less money, more and better guys on the market).

Yeah, the important thing is that his new agent isn't making the same empty promises as his old agent... But with Cuban & Fegan being buddy-buddy, I can only see this as a positive for getting Noel wrapped up to a longterm contract.

EDIT: I'm not finding any additional sources on this... Asking around Twitter, seems like this is either inaccurate or absolutely nobody noticed.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-20-2017, 03:51 PM

People are wondering whether that info is accurate or not since it hasn't been reported anywhere else. We shall see...

walter · 08-20-2017, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

People are wondering whether that info is accurate or not since it hasn't been reported anywhere else. We shall see...

DLord commented on the other Mavs board that Newy may just be rehashing old info. There are articles from back in December stating Noel was switching to Dan Fegan. Then Fegan got into legal trouble and Happy Walters took over his clients. So maybe Newy is just regurgitating old information and calling it new?

Underdog · 08-20-2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walter

DLord commented on the other Mavs board that Newy may just be rehashing old info. There are articles from back in December stating Noel was switching to Dan Fegan. Then Fegan got into legal trouble and Happy Walters took over his clients. So maybe Newy is just regurgitating old information and calling it new?

Yeah, that could very well be the case... I thought maybe Fegan had gotten through all his legal stuff and was taking on new clients again, but it could just as easily be old info getting recycled.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-20-2017, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walter

DLord commented on the other Mavs board that Newy may just be rehashing old info. There are articles from back in December stating Noel was switching to Dan Fegan. Then Fegan got into legal trouble and Happy Walters took over his clients. So maybe Newy is just regurgitating old information and calling it new?

Oh that came from Lord? So Scruggs vs Lord... the two most reliable sources on the net...derp.

EricaLubarsky · 08-20-2017, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Oh that came from Lord? So Scruggs vs Lord... the two most reliable sources on the net...derp.

Lots of pent up desire for news. Lots of guys grasping at straws

MavzMan · 08-21-2017, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

FINALLY

Damn, you got me.

EricaLubarsky · 08-21-2017, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

FINALLY

Awesome.

Now that that's settled, what do we do with the rest of the roster? Anything?

SMC0007 · 08-21-2017, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Awesome.

Now that that's settled, what do we do with the rest of the roster? Anything?

Trade em out and rebuild

DirkFTW · 08-21-2017, 12:14 PM

I bet he signs during the eclipse.

EricaLubarsky · 08-21-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

I bet he signs during the eclipse.

Underdog · 08-21-2017, 07:51 PM

@MikeAScotto: Nerlens Noel has hired agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports for representation, @BBallInsiders has learned.

http://defpen.com/nerlens-noel-hires-agent-rich-paul/

sefant77 · 08-21-2017, 08:12 PM

Lebron to Dallas confirmed

Underdog · 08-21-2017, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Lebron to Dallas confirmed

Or Nerlens takes QO and bolts to LA next year...

EricaLubarsky · 08-21-2017, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@MikeAScotto: Nerlens Noel has hired agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports for representation, @BBallInsiders has learned.

http://defpen.com/nerlens-noel-hires-agent-rich-paul/

Is that Cliff and Chris' brother?

tap2390 · 08-21-2017, 08:48 PM

Damn not a good sign.

rmacomic · 08-21-2017, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Damn not a good sign.

Why?

sefant77 · 08-21-2017, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Or Nerlens takes QO and bolts to LA next year...

If Lebron signs with the Lakers next summer they (aka Lebron) dont waste the 2nd max slot with Noel...

If Paul is smart he gives Noel this list here and another one with the projected cap space for each team: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/t...-13-westbrook/

Good chances he not even gets 60-70m next season because teams simply spending it with other even better players.