LAD - Life After Deron

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If I interpret that news correctly then they're willing to try to tool up with some vets for a possibly two-year run spanning the remainder of Dirk's contract. It may yet come down to rolling with one-year guys and saving cap space for next year if they can't get the guys they want to accept two year deals, but I'm glad to see that they're not settling for a rental year just yet. There are still enough quality names on the market to keep multi-season contention in play.

Agree 100%. Not sure if you saw my post in the other thread but Ray, Camby and Roy are all guys who would love to go to war with a veteran cast before the upstarts of the league take over.

Anybody know what's the max Dallas can offer Nash for 2 years?

[MavsFTR]

I heard something about Aaron Brooks last night. Idk how they're gonna sell that type of awful to fans.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Maybe it's because that's when Dirk's contract expires?

Yes, I know. I think that's when you really just demolish the whole building.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Well, per Woj sounds like the Knicks are offering 3/27 - 3/30 to Nash, conditional on being able to work out a S&T with the Suns. If NY and Phoenix can find a deal that allows Steve to get 10 per for 3 years I'd say that probably beats anything the Mavs would offer. Dallas might still have a chance at him if the teams can only agree on a deal that limits Nash's pay.

If the Mavs are reloading to swing for the fences next off season...other than pulling off a serious trade...I don't see ANY way they think they will succeed next off season WITHOUT Nash. Nash's cred alone could be that cherry that helps sway a big free agent.

Scorers love playing with him.

So if that is their plan, they almost HAVE to drop the coin on Nash, right?

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Well, per Woj sounds like the Knicks are offering 3/27 - 3/30 to Nash, conditional on being able to work out a S&T with the Suns. If NY and Phoenix can find a deal that allows Steve to get 10 per for 3 years I'd say that probably beats anything the Mavs would offer. Dallas might still have a chance at him if the teams can only agree on a deal that limits Nash's pay.

This would put Nash in NY, Lin likely in Houston and leaves Phoenix and Dallas fighting for Dragic. I don't think Toronto would get involved in that. Not sure how competitive the bidding would be vs. Phoenix but it should be manageable.

Kidd is also still without a home but is a backup PG at this stage.

[sike]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

before the upstarts of the league take over.

Miami, Clippers, OKC are knocking at your door, sir.

I'd suggest the has been "done taken over by dem upstarts".

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by sike

New York, LA, Miami....that is where most superstars want to play as long as the money is close.

Dallas is just a great place to raise a family. :/

I don't really blame them. Just like when you are raising a family, you look for good schools and clean neighborhoods, when you are a young multi-millionaire celebrity, you are looking for lifestyle and business/marketing opportunities.

I just hope MBT gets that and stops presenting the 4th largest metro in the US as being almost as good or something. Taking a Chicago/Boston type approach might be the right move. There's some lure there, relative to the likes of Utah, but FA is not the way to build the foundation (draft and trade first).

[kg_veteran]

Okay, I've shaken off my irritation, so I'm back to thinking about what next season might look like...

GMC - I saw your scenario (Nash, Allen, Camby on 2 year deals). Setting aside our agreement that you would then have the oldest closing unit in the history of forever, a few questions...

1. Do you really think Nash would take a 2 year deal?
2. Do you also factor Brandon Roy into your equation (he has expressed interest in coming to Dallas), or do you have Allen in lieu of Roy?
3. What makes you think Camby will choose Dallas? Starting role? Would the Mavs then amnesty Haywood, or would they keep him around in your ideal scenario?

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by sike

Miami, Clippers, OKC are knocking at your door, sir.

I'd suggest the has been "done taken over by dem upstarts".

I know.. I'm hoping a "The Expendables" cast of Dirk, Nash, Ray, Camby, Roy, Kidd, etc. would borrow enough time to toy with the "youngins" for a year or two.

Maybe steal a Finals appearance for Nash, which would be pretty darn cool.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I don't really blame them. Just like when you are raising a family, you look for good schools and clean neighborhoods, when you are a young multi-millionaire celebrity, you are looking for lifestyle and business/marketing opportunities.

I just hope MBT gets that and stops presenting the 4th largest metro in the US as being almost as good or something. Taking a Chicago/Boston type approach might be the right move. There's some lure there, relative to the likes of Utah, but FA is not the way to build the foundation (draft and trade first).

Once players and people get to Texas they like it fine enough. But weighing Miami/ny/la against dallas as far as lifestyle goes is a very losing proposition.

Some would say the same about Denver if you were ski/mountain inclined.

[sike]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I don't really blame them. Just like when you are raising a family, you look for good schools and clean neighborhoods, when you are a young multi-millionaire celebrity, you are looking for lifestyle and business/marketing opportunities.

Completely agree. Its not a "fault" thing, just a reality thing.

I just hope MBT gets that and stops presenting the 4th largest metro in the US as being almost as good or something. Taking a Chicago/Boston type approach might be the right move. There's some lure there, relative to the likes of Utah, but FA is not the way to build the foundation (draft and trade first).

YES! The Mavs FO has been very creative in making trades...far less so in drafting well.

But I agree that this is clearly the way for the Mavs to go. Heck, it won them a ring.

[sike]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Maybe steal a Finals appearance for Nash, which would be pretty darn cool.

That would be cool. But ONLY if in a mavs uni. Other than that, screw Nash.

[Murphy3]

edited..

[sike]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Some would say the same about Denver if you were ski/mountain inclined.

So rule out about 90% of NBA players.

[rabbitproof]

I can imagine all of Dirk's cracks already...

"Little Stevie... he's about 52 now. We just hope he can stop giving up the layups. He's cutting his hair short but he might need to come home as Chuck would say."

"Oh, Ray Allen. What a great shooter. You see him in the games and you say wow but in practice, it's still wow. How can he still be shooting that way at 55?"

"Brandon Roy. You know, his health is the main thing but it's great to have him back and he says he feels great. We'll see what he's got.. we're not expecting too much right now but he's got them cyborg knees we build in Germany so he should be able to play about 15 more years."

"Marcus Camby, he's about 82 years old but he's still tall and long and we just need him to block shots. I think my dad grew up watching him play."

"Jason Kidd, I'm so happy to have him back. At 93, he doesn't want to start anymore but he can still give us 15-20 minutes off the bench and guide these us 50 year olds around."

[sike]

rabbit........uh........*whispers* Dirk, is that you? +rep

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I can imagine all of Dirk's cracks already...

"Little Stevie... he's about 52 now. We just hope he can stop giving up the layups. He's cutting his hair short but he might need to come home as Chuck would say."

"Oh, Ray Allen. What a great shooter. You see him in the games and you say wow but in practice, it's still wow. How can he still be shooting that way at 55?"

"Brandon Roy. You know, his health is the main thing but it's great to have him back and he says he feels great. We'll see what he's got.. we're not expecting too much right now but he's got them cyborg knees we build in Germany so he should be able to play about 15 more years."

"Marcus Camby, he's about 82 years old but he's still tall and long and we just need him to block shots. I think my dad grew up watching him play."

"Jason Kidd, I'm so happy to have him back. At 93, he doesn't want to start anymore but he can still give us 15-20 minutes off the bench and guide these us 50 year olds around."

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by sike

rabbit........uh........*whispers* Dirk, is that you? +rep

Yea that was gold

[Melonhead]

Sign and trade knicks and suns on the verge via robert randolph twitter

[nowhereman]

If all we push for is Nash, we probably move laterally from this year - I'd imagine a much more dynamic offense but I think a step back defensively. It's tricky with Haywood - he's going to be better than any starting center we can realistically get, but as a center we had to platoon last year, he's not worth $8.3 million+ next season. Assuming we retain Ian, and throwing in some smaller moves like re-signing Yi and West, and a small offer for Josh Howard and CJ Miles, we might look something like this:

Nash - 10 m / West - 3 m / Jones - 1.2 m (~14 mil)
Roddy - 2.2 m / Miles - 1 m / Cunningham - 1 m (~4.2 mil)
Marion - 8.3 m / Howard - 3 m / Crowder - 500k (~12 mil)
Dirk - 20.1 m / Yi - 1m / Wright = 1m (~22 mil)
Haywood - 8.3 m / Mahinmi - 3m / James - 500k (~11.8 mil)

That's about 64 mil in salary (probably right around the "apron") for a pretty decent (2nd round ceiling) roster - rim protectors, dynamic creators, wing defenders, and guys like Marion, Wright, West, and Roddy that we can slide around a couple of different positions. Still a little weak defensively in the middle, and desperately needing some shooters. I'd be okay rolling with that, and keeping the amnesty open to help facilitate a bigger move next summer.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Sign and trade knicks and suns on the verge via robert randolph twitter

robert randolph? the pedal steel player?!

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

If all we push for is Nash, we probably move laterally from this year - I'd imagine a much more dynamic offense but I think a step back defensively. It's tricky with Haywood - he's going to be better than any starting center we can realistically get, but as a center we had to platoon last year, he's not worth $8.3 million+ next season. Assuming we retain Ian, and throwing in some smaller moves like re-signing Yi and West, and a small offer for Josh Howard and CJ Miles, we might look something like this:

Nash - 10 m / West - 3 m / Jones - 1.2 m (~14 mil)
Roddy - 2.2 m / Miles - 1 m / Cunningham - 1 m (~4.2 mil)
Marion - 8.3 m / Howard - 3 m / Crowder - 500k (~12 mil)
Dirk - 20.1 m / Yi - 1m / Wright = 1m (~22 mil)
Haywood - 8.3 m / Mahinmi - 3m / James - 500k (~11.8 mil)

That's about 64 mil in salary (probably right around the "apron") for a pretty decent (2nd round ceiling) roster - rim protectors, dynamic creators, wing defenders, and guys like Marion, Wright, West, and Roddy that we can slide around a couple of different positions. Still a little weak defensively in the middle, and desperately needing some shooters. I'd be okay rolling with that, and keeping the amnesty open to help facilitate a bigger move next summer.

Desperately needing shooters is right. Yeek. Looks like an expanded role for Roddy is on the horizon no matter what.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by mac222b

robert randolph? the pedal steel player?!

Haha. Along with the family band.

Also marc berman was tweeting the same thing. Saying they are closing in on the sign and trade. Im not good at linking from phone so apologies in advance.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Haha. Along with the family band.

Also marc berman was tweeting the same thing. Saying they are closing in on the sign and trade. Im not good at linking from phone so apologies in advance.

So i guess it's Dragic or bust

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Agree 100%. Not sure if you saw my post in the other thread but Ray, Camby and Roy are all guys who would love to go to war with a veteran cast before the upstarts of the league take over.

Anybody know what's the max Dallas can offer Nash for 2 years?

Yup, I did see your very wise and informed post in the other thread.

What Dallas could offer Steve would depend on how they went about getting him. I'm not aware of any reason they couldn't technically offer him a per/year close to what Deron got if they amnestied Haywood, for example. But I wouldn't want them to do that. There is always the possibility that they could find a way to get him in a S&T like NY is trying to do. Then his salary would be limited by how much coin Dallas was sending out.

WRT Dragic. I said elsewhere I'm okay with the Mavs being on the fence with him. But if the market ended up playing out in such a way that his value fell to 8/per or below, I do think you'd have to take his availability pretty seriously.

Originally Posted by sike

If the Mavs are reloading to swing for the fences next off season...other than pulling off a serious trade...I don't see ANY way they think they will succeed next off season WITHOUT Nash. Nash's cred alone could be that cherry that helps sway a big free agent.

Scorers love playing with him.

So if that is their plan, they almost HAVE to drop the coin on Nash, right?

You know, actually, after thinking about the news with NY, I've started giving more serious thought to whether it'd be worth it to make a competitive (with the Knicks) 3-year offer to Steve. Even with that 3rd year, a sub-10 million dollar per-year salary for Steve could prove to be a smart buy both for the flexibility it'd give you this year in filling out the rest of the roster, and for the draw he might represent next summer if his production can hold steady for one more year.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

GMC - I saw your scenario (Nash, Allen, Camby on 2 year deals). Setting aside our agreement that you would then have the oldest closing unit in the history of forever, a few questions...

1. Do you really think Nash would take a 2 year deal?
2. Do you also factor Brandon Roy into your equation (he has expressed interest in coming to Dallas), or do you have Allen in lieu of Roy?
3. What makes you think Camby will choose Dallas? Starting role? Would the Mavs then amnesty Haywood, or would they keep him around in your ideal scenario?

1. I think he might. But to even get him to consider it the total would have to be competitive with whatever NY can manage for three years. Like I said above. With the news about NY, I can see an argument that 3 years might be the smarter way to go.
2. Allen in lieu of Roy is what I was thinking. With Roy and Lee as two possible substitutes for Ray. It'd be tricky enough to get Nash/Allen/Camby from a cap standpoint. I have a hard time imagining they could get Roy too. But I guess it just depends on what he's going to get paid. I have no idea where the market is on him right now.
3. Starting role. Opportunity to play with Nash/Allen/Marion/Dirk. Haywood would have to be moved/amnestied to make it possible, I'm sure. Marcus' presumably lower per-year (as compared to Wood) would probably also be required to make the acquisitions of both Steve and Ray possible as well. You'd obviously have to either re-sign Ian or get Pryz on a vet min deal or something like that, too.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm really starting to doubt the Mavs pg situation next season...

They need to get Nash, Dragic, or Lin.

[mac222b]

Im inclined to agree with grandmaster C. maybe they need to add the 3rd year for Nash if they really have no interest in Dragic(which is possibly a smokescreen)

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

They need to get Nash, Dragic, or Lin.

I wish I was dead.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Im inclined to agree with grandmaster C. maybe they need to add the 3rd year for Nash if they really have no interest in Dragic(which is possibly a smokescreen)

The third year doesn't have be fully guaranteed. Right? Ala Stack or VC's deal.

Nash still gets more than two years' pay and the Mavericks maintain some extra flexibility in 2014.

[LonghornDub]

My inclination is still to go for Dragic, Roy, and Camby, and attempt to do so in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options in next year's FA class. But maybe that's unrealistic.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You know, actually, after thinking about the news with NY, I've started giving more serious thought to whether it'd be worth it to make a competitive (with the Knicks) 3-year offer to Steve. Even with that 3rd year, a sub-10 million dollar per-year salary for Steve could prove to be a smart buy both for the flexibility it'd give you this year in filling out the rest of the roster, and for the draw he might represent next summer if his production can hold steady for one more year.

I'd have no issues with giving Nash 3 years if you think it opens the door back up to landing a big dog. I'm less interested in Nash if the MBT thinks they can make trades to rebuild.

I especially have no issues with Nash at 3 yrs IF they don't see GD as a player with star potential.

[MavsFTR]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My inclination is still to go for Dragic, Roy, and Camby, and attempt to do so in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options in next year's FA class. But maybe that's unrealistic.

We should also get Dwight and Cp3 next off season, but in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options the following year

[CanadianMavsFan]

I'm hearing nothing about what the Mavericks are doing or plan to do. What is going on? Are they even pursuing Nash?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

We should also get Dwight and Cp3 next off season, but in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options the following year

Ah yes, the vaunted 2014 free agent class. Can't wait.

[MavsFTR]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ah yes, the vaunted 2014 free agent class. Can't wait.

Fo shiz

[kg_veteran]

1. I think he might. But to even get him to consider it the total would have to be competitive with whatever NY can manage for three years. Like I said above. With the news about NY, I can see an argument that 3 years might be the smarter way to go.
2. Allen in lieu of Roy is what I was thinking. With Roy and Lee as two possible substitutes for Ray. It'd be tricky enough to get Nash/Allen/Camby from a cap standpoint. I have a hard time imagining they could get Roy too. But I guess it just depends on what he's going to get paid. I have no idea where the market is on him right now.
3. Starting role. Opportunity to play with Nash/Allen/Marion/Dirk. Haywood would have to be moved/amnestied to make it possible, I'm sure. Marcus' presumably lower per-year (as compared to Wood) would probably also be required to make the acquisitions of both Steve and Ray possible as well. You'd obviously have to either re-sign Ian or get Pryz on a vet min deal or something like that, too.

Okay, so let me play along for a minute...

Camby - FA to be signed - James
Nowitzki - Wright
Marion - Carter - Crowder
Allen - Cunningham
Nash - West - Beaubois

I would have fun rooting for that team, but I think that our backcourt would get chewed up on defense. Maybe Cunningham could have more of an impact than I think he would.

EDIT: Forgot West in my chart...

[rabbitproof]

2014 is not so bad: http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents

Geez, has time gone so far? The marquee guys are James, Wade, Bosh, Pau, Amare, Gortat, Gay, Kobe.

Our realistic targets (my new FA rule is to eliminate any auto max players) are maybe Gortat or Gay unless we want to overpay Pau or Amare. Zero point guards though so Dragic may be a nice move.

Moving closer: http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

Untouchables for us are Paul, Dwight, Blake and probably Bynum. Smoove, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis may be doable. A ton of good ETO, restricted and team option guys (Monroe, Cousins, Iggy, Harden, Wall, Irving, Curry, Ty Law). I wonder if next year is a good year to try a Hibbert and force an opposing team to make a hard decision.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I wish I was dead.

If you kill me I'll kill you spiral.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My inclination is still to go for Dragic, Roy, and Camby, and attempt to do so in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options in next year's FA class. But maybe that's unrealistic.

Since I'm fleshing out scenarios...

Doesn't a Dragic/Roy backcourt get destroyed on defense just as badly as a Nash/Allen backcourt? I understand that we have to upgrade the backcourt offensively, but Roy isn't an upgrade over Terry (on either end) unless he is physically in a much different place than we last saw him, and Dragic (while undoubtedly a better offensive player than Kidd) is worse defensively.

Not really arguing with your scenario...just wondering aloud.

If you think you can count on Delonte West to be the third guard, then maybe it makes more sense, but he won't be closing games.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My inclination is still to go for Dragic, Roy, and Camby, and attempt to do so in a manner that doesn't hamstring our options in next year's FA class. But maybe that's unrealistic.

You could do Dragic and Roy and still be a player next year, assuming Roy ends up signing for only one year (would anybody actually give him multiple years?), though you'd probably want to move Marion or Wood by the trade deadline.

I know you're a big Dragic fan, but I'm curious: do you like him even at 4/40? Or does your interest presume a lower figure than that? Beyond that, if they did go for Dragic, how far away do you see them being? Would some good luck on a Roy signing (which I'd classify as him being able to give you 20+ mpg in the playoffs) plus Camby then be enough to get them into contention next year in your mind? And if not, what would you advocate doing? Better to go ahead and bite the bullet by trading Shawn to a contender now in exchange for some cheap youth/picks? I have to think there are some playoff teams out there looking back at the freight train that was LeBron James in the playoffs and thinking to themselves that a guy like Marion is exactly what they need.

[Mavsfan2thedeath]

I'm not holding my breath for Nash. Reports seem to indicate that the Knicks are the favorite.

In addition to that, Sefko is reporting that other than Nash, the Mavs probably won't spend much of their cap room....which seems to take Dragic and Lin out of the equation as well. What a cluster **** this whole thing is