Cowboys offseason Thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 03:12 AM

We have the 11th pick, the 18th pick, a ton of money and just as many holes.

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 03:12 AM

We have the 11th pick, the 18th pick, a ton of money and just as many holes.

Ninkobei · 01-03-2005, 01:44 PM

hey, those picks aren't half bad! Could have been much worse. I don't expect us to get Johnson with those picks but we will have our pick of most players.

Ninkobei · 01-03-2005, 01:44 PM

hey, those picks aren't half bad! Could have been much worse. I don't expect us to get Johnson with those picks but we will have our pick of most players.

Murphy3 · 01-03-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ninkobei
hey, those picks aren't half bad! Could have been much worse. I don't expect us to get Johnson with those picks but we will have our pick of most players.

I've seen some projections with Johnson going 10-18...so, you never know.

Murphy3 · 01-03-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ninkobei
hey, those picks aren't half bad! Could have been much worse. I don't expect us to get Johnson with those picks but we will have our pick of most players.

I've seen some projections with Johnson going 10-18...so, you never know.

Jamisonite · 01-03-2005, 03:15 PM

According to dallascowboys.com we have the 11th and the 20th pick

Jamisonite · 01-03-2005, 03:15 PM

According to dallascowboys.com we have the 11th and the 20th pick

chumdawg · 01-03-2005, 03:31 PM

How high is that receiver/returner from Michigan supposed to go?

chumdawg · 01-03-2005, 03:31 PM

How high is that receiver/returner from Michigan supposed to go?

XERXES · 01-03-2005, 04:11 PM

If by Johnson, you mean Derrick Johnson, I hope the Cowboy's don't waste draft pick on a LB (even if he's the second-coming of Mike SIngletary) they have many more needs to fill than at LB!!!

With that in mind can we come up with a list of draft needs?

In no particular order:

CB
DE
WR
Possible QB (depends on staff's actual assessment of Henson.)
OL
FS
RB (third-down back)
OLB

3 or 4 of these might be addressed in free agency - we've got cash to spend. I would just like to figure out what order these positions fall in.

XERXES · 01-03-2005, 04:11 PM

If by Johnson, you mean Derrick Johnson, I hope the Cowboy's don't waste draft pick on a LB (even if he's the second-coming of Mike SIngletary) they have many more needs to fill than at LB!!!

With that in mind can we come up with a list of draft needs?

In no particular order:

CB
DE
WR
Possible QB (depends on staff's actual assessment of Henson.)
OL
FS
RB (third-down back)
OLB

3 or 4 of these might be addressed in free agency - we've got cash to spend. I would just like to figure out what order these positions fall in.

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 04:40 PM

I'd prioritize our needs as follows:

1) Defensive End
2) Defensive Tackle
3) Offensive Tackle
4) Cornerback
5) Wide Receiver
6) Safety
6) Linebacker
7) Power Running Back

That being said, I'd take the best player available with our 1st pick. If you think Derrick Johnson is the next Mike Singletary, you have to take him. To steal a phrase from Bill, our defense is sorely lacking catalytic players. That’s whey they don’t create turnovers, even when they were the “no1 ranked defense”.

In my mind, Braylon Edwards is the surest thing in the draft. I don’t see any way he’s on the board at eleven, but if he is, I take him without a second thought.

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 04:40 PM

I'd prioritize our needs as follows:

1) Defensive End
2) Defensive Tackle
3) Offensive Tackle
4) Cornerback
5) Wide Receiver
6) Safety
6) Linebacker
7) Power Running Back

That being said, I'd take the best player available with our 1st pick. If you think Derrick Johnson is the next Mike Singletary, you have to take him. To steal a phrase from Bill, our defense is sorely lacking catalytic players. That’s whey they don’t create turnovers, even when they were the “no1 ranked defense”.

In my mind, Braylon Edwards is the surest thing in the draft. I don’t see any way he’s on the board at eleven, but if he is, I take him without a second thought.

chumdawg · 01-03-2005, 05:29 PM

You wouldn't think they would package picks to move up to take a guy, but I guess you can't rule it out. Those two first-rounders give them some flexibility.

You also have to wonder if they want to play a 3-4 next year, and how that impacts the kind of player they would target there. They definitely sorely lack playmakers in the front seven.

As for an additional running back, I believe I heard Parcells say they do need another back, but that he wants it to be "an elusive guy." Perhaps Rashard Lee could fill the "power back" role.

I would tend to see receiver as being an all-or-nothing kind of thing. If they could get a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards, great. But if not, then maybe they go to battle with Keyshawn, Glenn, Morgan, and Crayton?

I wouldn't be surprised if safety were the #1 priority.

chumdawg · 01-03-2005, 05:29 PM

You wouldn't think they would package picks to move up to take a guy, but I guess you can't rule it out. Those two first-rounders give them some flexibility.

You also have to wonder if they want to play a 3-4 next year, and how that impacts the kind of player they would target there. They definitely sorely lack playmakers in the front seven.

As for an additional running back, I believe I heard Parcells say they do need another back, but that he wants it to be "an elusive guy." Perhaps Rashard Lee could fill the "power back" role.

I would tend to see receiver as being an all-or-nothing kind of thing. If they could get a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards, great. But if not, then maybe they go to battle with Keyshawn, Glenn, Morgan, and Crayton?

I wouldn't be surprised if safety were the #1 priority.

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

As for an additional running back, I believe I heard Parcells say they do need another back, but that he wants it to be "an elusive guy." Perhaps Rashard Lee could fill the "power back" role.

The way I heard it was that he would like to have a bigger guy to contrast Julius, but if he could only have one good back, he'd take the elusive guy.

I envision a TJ Duckett/Warwick Dunn type backfield.

Quote:

I would tend to see receiver as being an all-or-nothing kind of thing. If they could get a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards, great. But if not, then maybe they go to battle with Keyshawn, Glenn, Morgan, and Crayton?

I wouldn’t even select Williams in the 1st round. I think he’ll be good but he’s in the Keyshawn mold of a big possession receiver. I just see Edwards as a game breaker ala Randy Moss …that is “if he’s one on one, just throw it up and he’ll go get it”. Just look at what Lee Evans did for Buffalo’s offense. You put Julius’s speed in the backfield with a WR who can stretch the field like Edwards and a tight end like Whitten working the middle and just maybe we could score 20 on a consistent basis…. that’s not even considering the red zone possibilities…think back to the game tying catch against Michigan State?

Quote:

You wouldn't think they would package picks to move up to take a guy, but I guess you can't rule it out. Those two first-rounders give them some flexibility.

The way Jerry was talking a couple of week ago, I think it’s more likely that they use the 2nd pick to trade down again. Can’t say that I agree with that, but I guess it depends on whose on the board.

dirno2000 · 01-03-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

As for an additional running back, I believe I heard Parcells say they do need another back, but that he wants it to be "an elusive guy." Perhaps Rashard Lee could fill the "power back" role.

The way I heard it was that he would like to have a bigger guy to contrast Julius, but if he could only have one good back, he'd take the elusive guy.

I envision a TJ Duckett/Warwick Dunn type backfield.

Quote:

I would tend to see receiver as being an all-or-nothing kind of thing. If they could get a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards, great. But if not, then maybe they go to battle with Keyshawn, Glenn, Morgan, and Crayton?

I wouldn’t even select Williams in the 1st round. I think he’ll be good but he’s in the Keyshawn mold of a big possession receiver. I just see Edwards as a game breaker ala Randy Moss …that is “if he’s one on one, just throw it up and he’ll go get it”. Just look at what Lee Evans did for Buffalo’s offense. You put Julius’s speed in the backfield with a WR who can stretch the field like Edwards and a tight end like Whitten working the middle and just maybe we could score 20 on a consistent basis…. that’s not even considering the red zone possibilities…think back to the game tying catch against Michigan State?

Quote:

You wouldn't think they would package picks to move up to take a guy, but I guess you can't rule it out. Those two first-rounders give them some flexibility.

The way Jerry was talking a couple of week ago, I think it’s more likely that they use the 2nd pick to trade down again. Can’t say that I agree with that, but I guess it depends on whose on the board.

Murphy3 · 01-03-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
I'd prioritize our needs as follows:

1) Defensive End
2) Defensive Tackle
3) Offensive Tackle
4) Cornerback
5) Wide Receiver
6) Safety
6) Linebacker
7) Power Running Back

That being said, I'd take the best player available with our 1st pick. If you think Derrick Johnson is the next Mike Singletary, you have to take him. To steal a phrase from Bill, our defense is sorely lacking catalytic players. That’s whey they don’t create turnovers, even when they were the “no1 ranked defense”.

In my mind, Braylon Edwards is the surest thing in the draft. I don’t see any way he’s on the board at eleven, but if he is, I take him without a second thought.

Nice list Dirno. I do disagree to an extent with a couple of things. One, well..this really isn't a disagreement, just a clarification...I can agree that the CB spot isn't as big of a concern for the Cowboys with the the current NFL rules and the way they are inforcing them. I can also agree that Safety isn't at the very top of the list. However, to have such huge holes at two positions in the defensive backfield, it pushes the need for a solid DB further up the list. You can cover for one player in the defensive backfield at times, but it's almost impossible to cover for two.

Two, I don't see the need for a power running back per say. I do see the need for a backup running back, but if he's a clone of Julius Jones just not quite as good then I'm happy with that. They need a good backup running back. Obviously, one with some power would be great, but I don't see the need to specifically look for the power running back. I don't see Julius Jones as a guy without power.

GP · 01-03-2005, 10:46 PM

I think they definitely need a QB. If the coaching staff says that they like Romo as much as Henson then Henson won't make it. I am watching this Auburn, Virginia Tech game and I see a QB that would look very nice in a Cowboys uniform. Campbell has a great arm and the announcers said he has 4.5 speed. He has been accurate all night and VT defense isn't half bad. I am liking what I am seeing. Oops an INT, but the throw was perfect. I think the Cows could use upgrades at just about EVERY position. The only players I really like from this team are Roy Williams, Larry Allen, Jason Witten and Julius Jones.

Murphy3 · 01-03-2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: GP
I think they definitely need a QB. If the coaching staff says that they like Romo as much as Henson then Henson won't make it. I am watching this Auburn, Virginia Tech game and I see a QB that would look very nice in a Cowboys uniform. Campbell has a great arm and the announcers said he has 4.5 speed. He has been accurate all night and VT defense isn't half bad. I am liking what I am seeing. Oops an INT, but the throw was perfect. I think the Cows could use upgrades at just about EVERY position. The only players I really like from this team are Roy Williams, Larry Allen, Jason Witten and Julius Jones.

hmm...You don't like Al Johnson?...Keyshawn Johnson?...Terry Glenn?...Crayton and Copper?...Greg Ellis?...LaRoi Glover?...TNewman?...Barnes?...I'm sure I could come up with more such as Dan Campbell and Richie Anderson......there's quite a few players on the team that are good players and can be significant contributors on this team for years to come. No, not all of them are stars.

But hey, what's not to like about KJohnson, Terry Glenn, Quincy Morgan, Patrick Crayton, and Terrance Copper if they're the 2-6 receivers on the team?

I can live with Richie Anderson as the third down runningback as long as they bring in someone to backup JJones.

Newman? He struggled early and often, but he showed alot to me with the way he bounced back the last 4-5 weeks of the season.

Al Johnson? He looks like he can play center in this league.

Darian Barnes? He's your starting FB and he was an undrafted FA. Definitely a nice find.

I could go on and on with guys that can contribute for the 'boys in the future. Yes, they do have some glaring holes, but don't throw everyone under the bus for the poor season.

Greg Ellis and LaRoi Glover? They both played at or near Pro Bowl level this year.

Dan Campbell? He's a good blocker and a decent receiver at the TE spot.

dirno2000 · 01-04-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

However, to have such huge holes at two positions in the defensive backfield, it pushes the need for a solid DB further up the list. You can cover for one player in the defensive backfield at times, but it's almost impossible to cover for two.

Valid point. My top three on the list just back up my feeling that you have to be strong up front first and foremost.

Secondly I’m thinking, and I could be wrong, that safety will be one of the easier positions to fill if you’re just looking for a solid guy. You don’t have to run a 4.4 to play the position and often times you can get by with a vet whose lost a step…maybe even a former corner. I haven’t looked at the FA list but I’m hoping we can find a value FA or a cap casualty. I just wouldn’t put a lot of money into safety when you look at what we’re paying Roy and the other glaring holes on the team.

Corner is almost the same story, we’re paying big money to Newman and I just wouldn’t sink too much money into the position before shoring up the front four.

Quote:

Two, I don't see the need for a power running back per say. I do see the need for a backup running back, but if he's a clone of Julius Jones just not quite as good then I'm happy with that. They need a good backup running back. Obviously, one with some power would be great, but I don't see the need to specifically look for the power running back. I don't see Julius Jones as a guy without power.

I wouldn’t sacrifice a quality scat back to just get a power back either. I’m just kind of echoing Bill’s sentiment from Friday’s press conference. Asked what kind of back he’d ideally like to have to back up Julius, he said that you’d like to have a little variety (style wise), but his first choice would be the elusive guy. Well we already have the elusive guy in Julius. The question is, can he be more consistent running routs and catching the ball out of the backfield. After a slow start, his showed some promise in this area Sunday night.

Murphy3 · 01-04-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Secondly I’m thinking, and I could be wrong, that safety will be one of the easier positions to fill if you’re just looking for a solid guy.

Yes, it will be an easier position to fill. However, it is imperative that you do fill that position.

I think you're definitely on the right track.

chumdawg · 01-04-2005, 11:40 AM

1) Does Lee have a chance to be the backup RB next year?
2) Does Hunter have a chance to be the starting right CB next year?
3) Will Dixon even be on the roster next year?
4) I'll be surprised if Gurode is a Cowboy next year.

dirno2000 · 01-04-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

1) Does Lee have a chance to be the backup RB next year?

Doesn't seem like it. For some reason, Parcells just doesn't seem to like the kid. Wish we could have seem more of him before Julius got back.

Quote:

2) Does Hunter have a chance to be the starting right CB next year?

doubtful, but it would be great if he could win the job. I like his size at the corner opposite Newman. He just seems to do a poor job of adjusting to the ball when it's in the air and I don't know that that's improved with him rehabbing the whole year.

Quote:

3) Will Dixon even be on the roster next year?

I hope not...I've seen enough of him.

Quote:

4) I'll be surprised if Gurode is a Cowboy next year.

By all accounts he's a good kid and a hard worker. Sounds like a good backup.

FilthyFinMavs · 01-04-2005, 01:37 PM

I think while our offense is just as bad as our defense I believe our defense is the one we should really go after this offseason. We have a chance to be great on defense if we can get a pass rush in there. We won't even have to really rely on getting a corner in the draft if we can get that great pass rusher coming out of this draft. Unless we can get Rolle out of the draft I think we should try and fix that corner spot via free agency. I'd love to get Mike Williams on this team but where does everyone see him going? While I think we need to upgrade at the reciever spot I don't believe it's 1st round worthy. The qb spot definately needs to be upgraded but not with a rookie. Get a vet in here Bill can trust. He trusted Vinny and he threw interceptions. Get someone in here who he can trust that won't throw the picks. Julius is going to take a beating under Parcells and I hope we can find a running back in either free agency or the draft who can come in and contribute while we rest Julius. We need to fix that whole right side of the offensive line. It's virtually impossible for Julius to run on that side of the line due to their poor protection.

I'd be very dissapointed with Bill if he doesn't atleast attempt to upgrade almost every position on this team. No more excuses. You have the picks and the money to go out and get any player free agency pool. Just don't pull anymore Marcellus Wileys out of the pool.

Jamisonite · 01-04-2005, 02:26 PM

Want to hear what i think...im sure you dont...but here it goes:-p

Like murph said...edwards probably wont be there at #11. So the reciever i think we should draft is Micheal Clayton...but at 20. Erasmus James would look rather nice at #11. If edwards is there at 11 take him and then pick up either Polluck or Rodrique Wright at 20.
All of this also depends on what we do in FA. Id love to see Shaun Ellis in a cowboys uniform which would solve our problems on the end. But we will just have to wait and see on that

XERXES · 01-04-2005, 05:09 PM

Clayton will probably be the when the Cowboy's make their second round selection...No way I'd take him with the 20th...

Also, just a random idea, why don't we trade the #20 pick or the second rounder (if they'd take it instead) to the Bengals for Jon Kitna?

XERXES · 01-04-2005, 05:15 PM

His 2003 line:

Yr Tm GP GS CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2003 CIN 16 16 324 520 62.3 3591 6.9 26 82 15 87.4

Ninkobei · 01-04-2005, 07:53 PM

Lets see Kitna was born 9/72' That makes him 32 years of age. Trade a high potential pick that could last 15 years for a here-and-now QB who will last maybe 4? We already have a here-and-now QB his name is Vinny. I'd prefer to have only one of these type players. Doesn't seem like the best idea to me, especially with Drew Brees, Kurt Warner and a couple other guys out there who will be looking for different teams next year.

XERXES · 01-04-2005, 08:47 PM

Kitna might be 32- but he has been a backup for most of his NFL carrer - yet has played extremely effectively as a starter. He has light tread on his tires. He might be 32 - but I'd submit he's 27-28 in NFL years.

Also, before you go proclaiming how great our 2nd round pick might be (and that he might be in the league for 15 years) take a good look at all the success we've had with 2nd round picks. I think I'd rather take a known commodity thank you very much.

Also, Kitna has had success much more recently that Vinnie and I'd rather have him than Kurt Hutchison...I mean Warner. Plus, Brees is a pipe dream.

Any other points I can refute?

FilthyFinMavs · 01-04-2005, 09:49 PM

A second rounder for Kitna? Isn't that what the Eagles traded to get TO? That's wayyyy to high of a pick for me. I'd probably trade a 4th rounder for him and I see no reason why the Bengals wouldn't do it.

BTW, can we bring in a Parcells guy with talent this time? Jon Abraham?

MightyToine · 01-04-2005, 11:07 PM

VT will be the starter next year...Sorry.

FilthyFinMavs · 01-05-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MightyToine
VT will be the starter next year...Sorry.

That wouldn't surprise me. Parcells is probably gonna upgrade everything around Vinny thinking this team will get better and we will have the same offense as we had this season.

endtroducing · 01-05-2005, 01:48 PM

what do you guys think about Carlos Rogers or Ronnie Brown? a 2 back system with Jones and Ronnie would be INSANE.

dirno2000 · 01-05-2005, 03:28 PM

Rogers is a possibility at 20, depending on how he runs. I like the idea of a 6'1 corner opposite Newman and he seems to be willing to support the run which is something that Parcells values in a corner.

mavs413 · 01-05-2005, 04:09 PM

Draft -
11th pick: Braylon Edwards WR
20th pick: Carlos Rogers CB
Key Free agents -
Drew Brees QB
Stocker McDougal RT
Sammy Knight SS
Chike Okeafor DE
Resign -
Leonardo Carson DT
Matt Lehr G

chumdawg · 01-05-2005, 04:20 PM

Here's an interesting scenario. What do you think Flozell Adams could pull in a trade? Maybe he's one of the ones they have been talking about who weren't "playing up to their contract" or something like that. I remember hearing Bill say in a recent press conference that Rogers (or was it Peterman? I always get them confused) is really better on the left side...and that that might impact their future decisions on the OL.

Mavs413, I like your plan. A little ambitious, perhaps, but I like it!

One thing's for sure: it should a fun offseason to watch.

dirno2000 · 01-05-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavs413
Draft -
11th pick: Braylon Edwards WR
20th pick: Carlos Rogers CB
Key Free agents -
Drew Brees QB
Stocker McDougal RT
Sammy Knight SS
Chike Okeafor DE
Resign -
Leonardo Carson DT
Matt Lehr G

You're probably going to have to trade a 1st rounder for Drew and give him a new contract.

mavs413 · 01-05-2005, 04:36 PM

why would we have to trade anything for him?