Official Rangers off season thread - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 11-05-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

If he could play 1B adequately, sure, I would be for that and instead of keeping Vlad get an outfielder that could have close to Vlad's production while around his same compensation. Then you could move Young to DH and bring in Beltre like I am praying for. Won't happen, but I do know Hamilton likely won't be cool with a permanent DH spot and just like Washington already decided in the playoffs you go with the guy that gives your team the best chance to win. Playing Josh in the outfield gives us the best chance to win because he is terrific defensively. With that said, he is just about as prone to get hurt in LF as he is in CF because of his Rusty Greer-mentality. He dives for anything and everything and will always do that so while CF might be slightly more risky for the guy, either way you have to live with the chance that he will get injured.

I strongly disagree that CF is "slightly more risky". It's significantly more risky. Every time he's hurt himself it's been from hitting a wall, not the ground. And people hit the wall a LOT more in CF at our park. Part of it is the angles, and part of it is because the left field is tall so most of the time the fielder turns around to play the carom.

CF also involves a lot more running in general, which is harder on his knees. Josh Hamilton needs to be in LF next year. There's a reason they had him in LF for over half the season despite Borbon being awful offensively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Truth be told, as much as I want Lee back, I am not thrilled with the odds of that happening. It sucks, but he may have been a rental. My only hope is that IF he leaves the team that gets him doesn't sign any bigger-name stars. We definitely need to get a 1st round pick for him considering what we gave up for him (even with the WS appearance). Here is hoping that won't happen and we keep him, but just saying. I am more nervous about him leaving than I was Texas losing game 5.

I'm pretty sure Lee is the highest rated free agent. At least he was the last time I heard someone discuss it. So there's no concern there. The only other thing to worry about would be a bad team signing him. If a team with a top 15 pick signs him we get their second round pick instead of their first. But him signing with one of those teams seems unlikely.

BGMaverick9 · 11-05-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm pretty sure Lee is the highest rated free agent. At least he was the last time I heard someone discuss it. So there's no concern there. The only other thing to worry about would be a bad team signing him. If a team with a top 15 pick signs him we get their second round pick instead of their first. But him signing with one of those teams seems unlikely.

I can't imagine anyone ranking higher than him, it's a pitchers league now anyways.

It's definitely a long-shot for a lower tier team to go after him and actually have a chance. It's a race between Texas, NY, Boston and LA (Angels).

Male30Dan · 11-05-2010, 10:05 PM

There were numerous articles that pointed out if the Yankees signed Crawford and Lee we would be screwed. Look it up.

Like I said Thiggy - we are done. Anyone that says a guy that Ron Washington himself claimed to have bad technique just this past offseason to be a better defender than Hamilton doesn't warrant a response. Go ahead, pull out the RioobSM stat. He is not.

.

jthig32 · 11-05-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

There were numerous articles that pointed out if the Yankees signed Crawford and Lee we would be screwed. Look it up

Like I said Thiggy - we are done. Anyone that says a guy that Ron Washington himself claimed to have bad technique just this past offseason to be a better defender than Hamilton doesn't warrant a response. Go ahead, pull out the RioobSM stat. He is not.

Well either these rankings are wrong or those articles are wrong. At least in the case of Crawford.

It does looks like Jeter, Werth and Rafael Soriano ended up with a higher ranking. To the situation you outlined is still in play, just not with Crawford.

And why are you bringing up the defense thing just to say you're done? I didn't mention anything about it in my last post.

But since you brought it up, I don't understand why you view it as such a ridiculous stance. It's not like Hamilton is the best defensive center fielder in baseball. He's a very good defender, but so is Borbon. If he weren't he wouldn't even be on the 25 man roster. Hell they gave Borbon a major league deal when they drafted him based on his ability to defend. He did have things to work on last season and early this season. He hadn't played very much professional baseball when he got to the team last season.

I've heard Gary Pettis talk about Borbon more than once this season and he holds his defense in very, very high regard. Players learn and get better.

Male30Dan · 11-06-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well either these rankings are wrong or those articles are wrong. At least in the case of Crawford.

It does looks like Jeter, Werth and Rafael Soriano ended up with a higher ranking. To the situation you outlined is still in play, just not with Crawford.

And why are you bringing up the defense thing just to say you're done? I didn't mention anything about it in my last post.

But since you brought it up, I don't understand why you view it as such a ridiculous stance. It's not like Hamilton is the best defensive center fielder in baseball. He's a very good defender, but so is Borbon. If he weren't he wouldn't even be on the 25 man roster. Hell they gave Borbon a major league deal when they drafted him based on his ability to defend. He did have things to work on last season and early this season. He hadn't played very much professional baseball when he got to the team last season.

I've heard Gary Pettis talk about Borbon more than once this season and he holds his defense in very, very high regard. Players learn and get better.

Just not touching the defense thing anymore... You refuse to address what our manager said but want to bring out something Pettis said. You believe what you want, but yeah, I do believe that Hamilton is one of the absolute best defensive outfielders in the game. I do not believe that Borbon is. He is very good, but he is not on Hamilton's level when you factor in the things Hamilton brings (they both have very good range - hell Borbon likely even has him there - but Hamilton has a plus plus arm and makes the very difficult catch). You believe what you want and I will believe what I want. Like I said, we are done there.

Regarding that link, what I saw was in August/September and was on LSB and it definitely had Crawford ahead of Lee at that time. I don't know if that changes over a year or if they are just two different sources but he absolutely was ahead of Lee earlier this year in something I read. Anyway, you know they are signing Jeter back, so would that equal us getting screwed if Lee chooses NY?

jthig32 · 11-06-2010, 09:34 AM

Hamilton has more catches that look difficult than Borbon because Borbon's speed and reaction time gets him to more balls without having to dive. That's my take on it, anyway. Regardless, I don't think it's a ridiculous stance to say Hamilton is better defensively. They're both quite good. I was just surprised at the reaction to my assessment. I think it's too close to call either stance ridiculous. Oh, and I would definitely take Pettis' evaluation of defensive ability over Wash's.

Any rankings in August/September would have been speculation, and yes they do change as the year goes on, as they're based on the stats for the year. And no, signing your own free agent doesn't figure into any of this compensatory pick discussion.

Male30Dan · 11-06-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Hamilton has more catches that look difficult than Borbon because Borbon's speed and reaction time gets him to more balls without having to dive. That's my take on it, anyway. Regardless, I don't think it's a ridiculous stance to say Hamilton is better defensively. They're both quite good. I was just surprised at the reaction to my assessment. I think it's too close to call either stance ridiculous. Oh, and I would definitely take Pettis' evaluation of defensive ability over Wash's.

Any rankings in August/September would have been speculation, and yes they do change as the year goes on, as they're based on the stats for the year. And no, signing your own free agent doesn't figure into any of this compensatory pick discussion.

That is not my stance on it. Borbon made the catches he could get to and let the ones he didn't think he could bounce or go over his head instead of reach out for them and dive. But again, you have your take and I will have mine. All I know is that Hamilton wasn't called out before the year started for poor defense by a manager that, while infield, was a defensive-minded coach.

Nice to know about Jeter. Hopefully they don't sign Werth or Soriano (Werth is possible but I doubt they decide to kill the Rivera era and go younger).

sike · 11-06-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I've heard Gary Pettis talk about Borbon more than once this season and he holds his defense in very, very high regard.

If this is the case, then that means a lot to me.

Male30Dan · 11-06-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

If this is the case, then that means a lot to me.

Of course it does. Thank you for your contributions.

Male30Dan · 11-07-2010, 10:14 AM

Iwakuma (Japan's 2nd best pitcher) is possibly joining the Rangers. It is rumored that we made the highest bid. The requested amount to buy him out was something like 18.5m and the M's were rumored to only offer 13m.

Link 1
Link 2

Male30Dan · 11-07-2010, 10:26 AM

...and now a conflicting story saying our offer was "light" and the As look to be the front runner:

Link!

sike · 11-07-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Of course it does. Thank you for your contributions.

I don't know if you joking or being a jackass here...

Male30Dan · 11-07-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I don't know if you joking or being a jackass here...

My jokes aren't subtle. If you can't tell, always assume the latter.

sike · 11-07-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

My jokes aren't subtle. If you can't tell, always assume the latter.

Now that is funny.

mavspwnage · 11-08-2010, 02:46 AM

Is it April yet?

ocelot_ark · 11-09-2010, 10:57 PM

Jeter gets the gold glove over Elvis.

...bull crap.

Mav Addict · 11-09-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Jeter gets the gold glove over Elvis.

...bull crap.

sike · 11-10-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Jeter gets the gold glove over Elvis.

...bull crap.

Baseball awards are a joke.

Murphy3 · 11-10-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Baseball awards are a joke.

Gold glove awards are a joke.. nothing wrong with many of the awards..

Male30Dan · 11-10-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Gold glove awards are a joke.. nothing wrong with many of the awards..

If Hamilton doesn't win MVP I am going to bump this post.

sike · 11-10-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Gold glove awards are a joke.. nothing wrong with many of the awards..

"nothing wrong"? Sometimes the MVP seems too much like all star voting far more than pure player evaluation. Cy Young can be a bit too biased as well.

But I do agree that the Gold Glove's are by far the most goofy....it so often feels like a "who is the most famous" award.

muzak · 11-10-2010, 11:18 AM

I thought it was refreshing to see the article on ESPN saying that he isn't all that deserving of it. I thought surely they'd be hanging all over him like a dingleberry.

Male30Dan · 11-10-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

I thought it was refreshing to see the article on ESPN saying that he isn't all that deserving of it. I thought surely they'd be hanging all over him like a dingleberry.

No, many are jumping off that sinking ship that is Jeter's perceived defensive ability. Too bad everyone isn't as Andrus was WAY more deserving. WAY more. There was a case for others as well, but not at all for Jeter.

Making your judgement about Jeter's defense by only using error numbers is just as bad as making your judgement about other guys by only using DDRIEiim and PrIEL nerd stats... Sometimes you just have to watch the damn game to know the players.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Based on everything Wash has ever said about the catcher position, I feel pretty strongly that Victor Martinez is not even a remote possibility as a catcher here.

Interesting read...

jthig32 · 11-12-2010, 02:29 PM

Yeah I saw that. I have a hard time believing it. I mean Martinez probably couldn't even stay at catcher all the way through a four year contract.

But who knows, maybe they're willing to sacrifice that much defense for his offense.

Or maybe they want him to move between 1B, DH and catcher, rather than play catcher exclusively. That I could get on board with.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah I saw that. I have a hard time believing it. I mean Martinez probably couldn't even stay at catcher all the way through a four year contract.

But who knows, maybe they're willing to sacrifice that much defense for his offense.

Or maybe they want him to move between 1B, DH and catcher, rather than play catcher exclusively. That I could get on board with.

I thought you believed everything you read in articles.......

Based on the catcher stats you probably caught as well over at LSB, he is average in every category except throwing guys out (he is one of the worst in the league there).

I could definitely be on board with him, even as a full time catcher. The extra number of stolen bases (which is pretty much the only area he dings our defense) would hurt us far less than his bat would hurt our opponents.

Sure, a guy like Buck would be a better bet due to him both improving your offense and defense, but Martinez is definitely the better guy at the plate.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:51 PM

For the record, if we do lose Lee it would be pretty exciting to throw offense at this thing.

Imagine Martinez AND Beltre brought into this lineup. Losing Lee would suck, but you know how I feel about Feliz and I think he could be amazing in the rotation. If not, we could always trade for Grienke. Anyway, it very likely won't happen but this COULD be our lineup in that situation:

SS - Andrus
2B - Kinsler
3B - Beltre
CF - Hamilton
RF - Cruz
DH - Vlad
1B - Young
C - Martinez
LF - Murphy

I know that is a lot of NEVER GONNA HAPPEN... Just saying. It wouldn't matter who you start the inning with - just greatness all around. What is the WAR total on that lineup for whoever wants to look?

dalmations202 · 11-12-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

For the record, if we do lose Lee it would be pretty exciting to throw offense at this thing.

Imagine Martinez AND Beltre brought into this lineup. Losing Lee would suck, but you know how I feel about Feliz and I think he could be amazing in the rotation. If not, we could always trade for Grienke. Anyway, it very likely won't happen but this COULD be our lineup in that situation:

SS - Andrus
2B - Kinsler
3B - Beltre
CF - Hamilton
RF - Cruz
DH - Vlad
1B - Young
C - Martinez
LF - Murphy

I know that is a lot of NEVER GONNA HAPPEN... Just saying. It wouldn't matter who you start the inning with - just greatness all around. What is the WAR total on that lineup for whoever wants to look?

That is getting more and more like Murders Row.........

Male30Dan · 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM

And the AL Rookie of the year is???

Mr. Feliz!

Mav Addict · 11-15-2010, 08:36 PM

Go Neftali, it's your birthday!

Love the kid....if he can become a starter even better!

jthig32 · 11-16-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

#rangers mulling pursuing victor martinez as hitter who wouldn't catch much. They love bat.#tigers, #orioles, #redsox interested.

This is from Jon Heyman on Twitter. And while I generally think Heyman is full of crap, this makes much more sense to me than the Rangers pursuing Martinez as a catcher.

mkat · 11-16-2010, 11:25 AM

would love to have Martinez here. He could sub in at C and 1B. Give me Zack Greinke too, please.

mavspwnage · 11-16-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

would love to have Martinez here. He could sub in at C and 1B. Give me Zack Greinke too, please.

Our playoff record was 8-8, not 8-9...

Five-ofan · 11-17-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Why on earth would you trade him if you didn't give him a chance to start? He is cheap, under our control, and gives us great flexibility at a position where we have the majority of our injuries. I would bet my entire family that out of Hamilton/Cruz, one will see the DL next year. Murphy is definitely more talented at the plate and he covers LF quite well. Plus Josh is absolutely terrific in CF, though prone to injury there (prone to injury everywhere outside of DH for that matter). And where are you getting 5th outfielder? Hamilton, Cruz, Murphy, and Borbon. That would be 4th outfielder.

To me, play your best guys in the positions they are best suited. Why does Murphy have to be a 4th outfielder behind Borbon when he does everything better than Borbon except run? Make Borbon make enough noise with his bat in 4th outfielder duty like Murphy has to DESERVE the starting OF spot. What Murphy did this past year puts him in the starting lineup as far as I am concerned, minus a trade or FA signing. Keeping Borbon as the 4th OF spot is somehow beneath him? Is it beneath Murphy? Give me a break.

I say make him earn it and his results from last year did not warrant a starting spot. Sure, you could argue sending him to AAA to get consistent at bats, but I would prefer our 4th OF be talented and beneficial to us in late innings. Maybe others could suffice, but my point is that until Borbon proves otherwise, he is not a starting OF on a playoff team.

Borbon is light years better defensively than murphy. Murphy is a slightly below average corner OFer, Borbon is a good defensive CFer. Murphy is a better hitter, but I wouldnt project much more than 270/330/450 for murphy going forward and if Borbon can put up 290/340/400, Id take Borbon over murphy. The problem is im not remotely sure that Borbon can put up 290/340/400.

Five-ofan · 11-17-2010, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Just not touching the defense thing anymore... You refuse to address what our manager said but want to bring out something Pettis said. You believe what you want, but yeah, I do believe that Hamilton is one of the absolute best defensive outfielders in the game. I do not believe that Borbon is. He is very good, but he is not on Hamilton's level when you factor in the things Hamilton brings (they both have very good range - hell Borbon likely even has him there - but Hamilton has a plus plus arm and makes the very difficult catch). You believe what you want and I will believe what I want. Like I said, we are done there.

Regarding that link, what I saw was in August/September and was on LSB and it definitely had Crawford ahead of Lee at that time. I don't know if that changes over a year or if they are just two different sources but he absolutely was ahead of Lee earlier this year in something I read. Anyway, you know they are signing Jeter back, so would that equal us getting screwed if Lee chooses NY?

I would be much much more inclined to listen to Gary Pettis' views on outfield defense than Wash's. Now if were talking infield defense, Wash is one of the better guys in baseball to talk about that.

Five-ofan · 11-17-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah I saw that. I have a hard time believing it. I mean Martinez probably couldn't even stay at catcher all the way through a four year contract.

But who knows, maybe they're willing to sacrifice that much defense for his offense.

Or maybe they want him to move between 1B, DH and catcher, rather than play catcher exclusively. That I could get on board with.

I hate the idea of signing V-Mart for anywhere near what he will get. Hes an average ish first basemen when you factor in his defense if he plays there and he simply cant catch. Couple those things with the fact I dont see him signing for around 4/48 and i just dont have any interest.

Male30Dan · 11-17-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Borbon is light years better defensively than murphy. Murphy is a slightly below average corner OFer, Borbon is a good defensive CFer. Murphy is a better hitter, but I wouldnt project much more than 270/330/450 for murphy going forward and if Borbon can put up 290/340/400, Id take Borbon over murphy. The problem is im not remotely sure that Borbon can put up 290/340/400.

I don't see Borbon reaching those numbers consistently, but all guys can have it click for them over an offseason so it certainly isn't impossible. That is why I say play the guy you know will drive in a great deal more runs for you out of that spot until Borbon proves his worth with his bat.

Male30Dan · 11-17-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I would be much much more inclined to listen to Gary Pettis' views on outfield defense than Wash's. Now if were talking infield defense, Wash is one of the better guys in baseball to talk about that.

Come on 5-0... When Wash said that Pettis' quote was no where around. Want to look that up? I know I can find Wash's comments somewhere in the archives. You can say all day long that you would rather listen to Pettis' comments but they both know their shit. Do you really think someone that has been in the game as long as Washington can't judge an outfielder's ability to track down fly balls? I am not saying he didn't have good nerd stats and I am not saying that he wasn't a good defensive CF (keep in mind that I pointed out that those comments were at the BEGINNING of the 2010 season - in training camp and even before that). But don't make Washington out to be, well, you regarding his mental knowledge of the game just because he coached infield defense in the past.

sike · 11-17-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is from Jon Heyman on Twitter. And while I generally think Heyman is full of crap, this makes much more sense to me than the Rangers pursuing Martinez as a catcher.

Uncle Norm wants Martinez as DH, part time 1B, and only rarely at catcher.

He said if Lee $ just gets stupid (ala 7 for 27) then he would go for V.Mart and Greinke with the same money.

LonghornDub · 11-17-2010, 03:20 PM

Wash getting 2nd for Manager of the Year is an absolute screw job.