Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Go Back   Dallas-Mavs.com Forums > Everything Else > Other Sports Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2010, 03:48 PM   #81
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub View Post
Wash getting 2nd for Manager of the Year is an absolute screw job.
In fairness, some of the 5 runner-up finishes that Gardenhire received were screw jobs as well. Both were deserving...
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-17-2010, 03:50 PM   #82
LonghornDub
Moderator
 
LonghornDub's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
LonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
In fairness, some of the 5 runner-up finishes that Gardenhire received were screw jobs as well. Both were deserving...
Sure. But Wash was more deserving, IMO. No disrespect to Gardenhire.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."

"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
LonghornDub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 04:28 PM   #83
Murphy3
Guru
 
Murphy3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,420
Murphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I have no problem with it. I might have put Francona up there with those two as well.
Murphy3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:19 PM   #84
mkat
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north texas
Posts: 2,186
mkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to beholdmkat is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub View Post
Sure. But Wash was more deserving, IMO. No disrespect to Gardenhire.
gotta disagree. Gardenhire lost his top flight closer before the year began, and Morneau too, and they still won 95 games...and they don't really have much of a pitching staff either.
__________________
Texas Rangers 2011 Regular Season Win/Losses
24-23
mkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:30 PM   #85
LonghornDub
Moderator
 
LonghornDub's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
LonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Apologies folks. I wasn't keeping in mind that the awards are voted on at season's end. I always forget that, since in other instances where that's the case (e.g., NBA MVP), the award is given out well before the championship is decided.

Based on regular-season results, I'm more than fine with Gardenhire. I will say I don't think Francona was in the top three, though. It's Gardenhire, Maddon, Wash, then everyone else.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."

"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls

Last edited by LonghornDub; 11-17-2010 at 05:33 PM.
LonghornDub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:31 PM   #86
mavspwnage
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,628
mavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant future
Default

If the Red Sox had made the playoffs, Francona would have probably been unanimous as MOY. It's hard to deny what he did with a makeshift team. Still had 89 wins.
__________________
mavspwnage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 06:11 PM   #87
Five-ofan
Guru
 
Five-ofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
Five-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Uncle Norm wants Martinez as DH, part time 1B, and only rarely at catcher.

He said if Lee $ just gets stupid (ala 7 for 27) then he would go for V.Mart and Greinke with the same money.
The problem with that is you have to trade for greinke. And im thinking that cost cruz and martin perez which i wouldnt do
Five-ofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 06:11 PM   #88
Five-ofan
Guru
 
Five-ofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
Five-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Uncle Norm wants Martinez as DH, part time 1B, and only rarely at catcher.

He said if Lee $ just gets stupid (ala 7 for 27) then he would go for V.Mart and Greinke with the same money.
The problem with that is you have to trade for greinke. And im thinking that cost cruz and martin perez which i wouldnt do
Five-ofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 11:17 PM   #89
sike
The Preacha
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
sike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan View Post
The problem with that is you have to trade for greinke. And im thinking that cost cruz and martin perez which i wouldnt do
Is there another Cruz in our farm or are you talking Nellie? I'm not for moving Nellie AND top prospects.

Norm seemed to think he could be had for some our top propects alone...which I would do for a young proven ace. emphasis on the "young" part.
__________________

ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
sike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 02:40 AM   #90
Five-ofan
Guru
 
Five-ofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
Five-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond reputeFive-ofan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Is there another Cruz in our farm or are you talking Nellie? I'm not for moving Nellie AND top prospects.

Norm seemed to think he could be had for some our top propects alone...which I would do for a young proven ace. emphasis on the "young" part.
No i mean nellie, which is why I said i wouldnt do it. The problem with trading for Greinke is he is a FA after 2012 which means you only get him for two years. If you do purely prospects for greinke its probably Perez, Holland, Beltre and Jorge Alfaro. Which yet again, as much as I love Greinke, I wouldnt do for 2 years. And I actually would prefer Greinke to Lee, given exactly the same salary.

As for the MOTY, I thought Wash had a very solid case but it is in no way a screw job for him to have lost. The twins had a better record and probably less talent.
Five-ofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 08:25 AM   #91
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I would rather keep Lee and would rather trade for Grienke if we lose Lee, but this would be a great consolation prize...
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 09:34 AM   #92
Murphy3
Guru
 
Murphy3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,420
Murphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond reputeMurphy3 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Newberg's most recent report said that the club would most likely move Ogando into the rotation ahead of Feliz. I would agree with that decision.
Murphy3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 11:10 AM   #93
Rhylan
Minister of Soul
 
Rhylan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: on the Mothership
Posts: 4,893
Rhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond reputeRhylan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3 View Post
Newberg's most recent report said that the club would most likely move Ogando into the rotation ahead of Feliz. I would agree with that decision.
I need to see more of him in the majors with runners on... as we all know, he craps his britches with other guys' runners. And he hardly allowed enough of his own runners for me to form an opinion there. But I love the guy. Around the office, we say he looks like the kind of guy who would knife your ass without thinking twice.
Rhylan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 11:55 AM   #94
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhylan View Post
I need to see more of him in the majors with runners on... as we all know, he craps his britches with other guys' runners. And he hardly allowed enough of his own runners for me to form an opinion there. But I love the guy. Around the office, we say he looks like the kind of guy who would knife your ass without thinking twice.
I think it might be hard to distinguish whether the problem is entering with runner's on, or entering in the middle of an inning. The two generally go hand in hand. I read a few articles that seemed to intimate that the Rangers felt like it was more the latter than the former.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 02:26 PM   #95
LonghornDub
Moderator
 
LonghornDub's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
LonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond reputeLonghornDub has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Hamilton named AL MVP. No surprise.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...?slug=ap-almvp
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."

"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
LonghornDub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 03:46 PM   #96
sike
The Preacha
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
sike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub View Post
Hamilton named AL MVP. No surprise.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...?slug=ap-almvp
But still




!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________

ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
sike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 06:31 PM   #97
mavspwnage
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,628
mavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant futuremavspwnage has a brilliant future
Default

Hamilton clinched the award on August 13. From that day forward, everyone else was fighting for second place.
__________________
mavspwnage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 12:23 PM   #98
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Just throwing this out there (cough, cough)... Arbitration offered to Frankie and he is likely to accept. Stories out there suggesting this means Feliz will get a shot at the rotation.
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 01:03 PM   #99
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
Just throwing this out there (cough, cough)... Arbitration offered to Frankie and he is likely to accept. Stories out there suggesting this means Feliz will get a shot at the rotation.
Frankie coming back certainly would make it more likely, but I'd still say it's a pretty safe bet that Feliz stays in the bullpen.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 11:39 PM   #100
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Frankie coming back certainly would make it more likely, but I'd still say it's a pretty safe bet that Feliz stays in the bullpen.
In fairness, didn't you also think it was a pretty safe bet that Frankie was gone?
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 10:30 AM   #101
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
In fairness, didn't you also think it was a pretty safe bet that Frankie was gone?
No.

Quote:
Frankie's far from a guarantee to be back. His injury might have lowered his value to the point that he accepts arbitration, but if not I think he's gone.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 10:55 AM   #102
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
No.
I could have worded the question better, but it is clear you were leaning toward the "He is leaving" camp. You put a support valve in there, but you were leaning.
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 11:08 AM   #103
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 11:43 AM   #104
muzak
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 576
muzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of lightmuzak is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.
Same here. He was one of the top closers in all of baseball. Why mess with a good thing?
muzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 11:47 AM   #105
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Just read through the past couple of pages in this thread.

Feliz as a starter would be a mistake. He doesn't have enough pitches to make that work.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 11:50 AM   #106
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.
Some don't view it as a mistake as far as pulling him out is concerned... Him succeeding as a starter is yet to be seen of course, and Joe doesn't touch on that.

Hell, it could be argued that we could be much improved with Francisco/Ogando as the closer, Greinke in Lee's spot via trade, Feliz in Hunter's spot, and an abundance of offense brought in with the money we were going to spend on Lee IF he leaves (maybe Dunn for DH AND someone like Konerko). I hope we sign Lee, trade for Greinke, AND get one big bat in here, but I also realize this isn't being played out on PS3.

We shall see indeed...
__________________

Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-29-2010 at 12:05 PM.
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 11:54 AM   #107
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran View Post
Just read through the past couple of pages in this thread.

Feliz as a starter would be a mistake. He doesn't have enough pitches to make that work.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.
He has enough - he just doesn't currently trust them enough. He has a very nice changeup and you can just ask ARod about his curveball. You remember the one right? The one that took us to the World Series? There was also talk of him working on a 2-seamer. A full training camp stretched out and asked to rely on more than just that standard fastball would do him wonders. If he could start mixing in movement and speed regularly, this guy would be a Fing beast (more than he already is).

Regarding Borbon, well, I disagree. He is the superior defender out of those two but he isn't as good as some in here make him out to be.
__________________

Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-29-2010 at 12:00 PM.
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 12:15 PM   #108
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
Some don't view it as a mistake...

Hell, it could be argued that we could be much improved with Francisco/Ogando as the closer, Greinke in Lee's spot via trade, Feliz in Hunter's spot, and an abundance of offense brought in with the money we were going to spend on Lee IF he leaves (maybe Dunn for DH AND someone like Konerko). I hope we sign Lee, trade for Greinke, AND get one big bat in here, but I also realize this isn't being played out on PS3.

We shall see indeed...
I don't really see how JoPos' article (which was a great read btw) works as an admonition that Feliz should be a starter. It just argues that he should be used differently, and I agree.

BBTIA had some quotes from Jason Parks about Feliz this morning. I really respect Parks' opinions of the Rangers, as he's a legitimate scout that spends a lot of time following the Rangers. Here was his take:

Quote:
"Feliz threw 80 percent fastballs last year. He barely touched the curveball, which used to be his best [secondary pitch]. At this point, his fastball is solid, but his curveball is underdeveloped, so it will take time to refine. His transition wouldn't be as smooth as people think it would be. He would need half a season in AAA, if not more.

"I'm not sure it's the right time, and I know his stuff isn't ready for two, three, or four passes through a lineup. Big league hitters will eventually adjust to fastball-heavy pitchers after seeing it a few times. His change-up is very good, but he deploys it in a closer's sequence, and he goes to it more against left-handed hitters, obviously. How does that change-up play off a fastball that isn't 98 mph? How do those pitches pair after multiple passes? Where does the curveball fit in? Development doesnt just happen because the fanbase thinks its a good idea. The Rangers know Feliz's arm. They will make the right call. Fans aren't privy to the right info. Period."
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 12:18 PM   #109
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran View Post
Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.
What is your basis for this? The Rangers certainly think so.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 01:01 PM   #110
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
He has enough - he just doesn't currently trust them enough. He has a very nice changeup and you can just ask ARod about his curveball. You remember the one right? The one that took us to the World Series? There was also talk of him working on a 2-seamer. A full training camp stretched out and asked to rely on more than just that standard fastball would do him wonders. If he could start mixing in movement and speed regularly, this guy would be a Fing beast (more than he already is).
Right now, Feliz has two pitches. I'm sure he could develop into a starter, but I think it's an iffy proposition for next year and a bad decision given his performance as a closer.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 01:05 PM   #111
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
What is your basis for this? The Rangers certainly think so.
Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 01:36 PM   #112
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran View Post
Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.
Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 01:54 PM   #113
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
I don't really see how JoPos' article (which was a great read btw) works as an admonition that Feliz should be a starter. It just argues that he should be used differently, and I agree.

BBTIA had some quotes from Jason Parks about Feliz this morning. I really respect Parks' opinions of the Rangers, as he's a legitimate scout that spends a lot of time following the Rangers. Here was his take:
I edited my post 10 minutes before you posted this - see my edit. I understood it didn't really suggest Feliz should be a starter - only that he isn't nearly as important as a closer and could/should be used differently.

Regarding Jason - sounds like a cocky little shit, but that's just my take on his post. I understand he throws fastball heavy, but I would think that is what is required out of a closer. Didn't Washington and Maddux tell him to go after guys instead of nibbling? That wasn't all fastball nibbling early on. My point is that he CAN throw the other pitches but simply hasn't because that type of a role doesn't (shouldn't) get too fancy - if you have overpowering stuff for 3 hitters, you get them out with it.

Bottom line, while there would most definitely be a transition period (though I think his talent would help jump that gap better than most), what better time than now. Why waste prime years of him as a starter when there are other guys available that can or even have been successful at his role?

To me it is an absolute no brainer to give him the same chance we gave CJ. IF he proves in spring training he can't handle it, fine, keep him as the closer (at least until the next year when I will want to try again), but damn it - let the kid try. How many thought CJ would do this well?

*crickets*

*crickets*
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #114
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran View Post
Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.
I agree with the part in bold greatly and have been preaching as much, despite Hamilton playing CF as a result.
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:13 PM   #115
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.
He is definitely a lot faster than Murphy, but Murphy is still fast and does indeed get a good jump on balls. That is why I said (and I use my eyes too) that it isn't as crazy as some think to suggest Murphy is a darn good defender that can absolutely hold his own. He might not be as good as Borbon, but he is a good defender.

...and calling out eye-judgements based on one guy's view of one player's defense is silly. You had it right - he is a moron.
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:16 PM   #116
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
He is definitely a lot faster than Murphy, but Murphy is still fast and does indeed get a good jump on balls. That is why I said (and I use my eyes too) that it isn't as crazy as some think to suggest Murphy is a darn good defender that can absolutely hold his own. He might not be as good as Borbon, but he is a good defender.

...and calling out eye-judgements based on one guy's view of one player's defense is silly. You had it right - he is a moron.
FWIW - I just looked on that same site and David Murphy is listed as 7th for LF defense, just behind Hamilton who is 6th... Thiggy, would that be considered in the same stratosphere, or just outside of it?

Link...
__________________

Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-29-2010 at 02:27 PM.
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #117
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
Regarding Jason - sounds like a cocky little shit, but that's just my take on his post. I understand he throws fastball heavy, but I would think that is what is required out of a closer. Didn't Washington and Maddux tell him to go after guys instead of nibbling? That wasn't all fastball nibbling early on. My point is that he CAN throw the other pitches but simply hasn't because that type of a role doesn't (shouldn't) get too fancy - if you have overpowering stuff for 3 hitters, you get them out with it.

Bottom line, while there would most definitely be a transition period (though I think his talent would help jump that gap better than most), what better time than now. Why waste prime years of him as a starter when there are other guys available that can or even have been successful at his role?

To me it is an absolute no brainer to give him the same chance we gave CJ. IF he proves in spring training he can't handle it, fine, keep him as the closer (at least until the next year when I will want to try again), but damn it - let the kid try. How many thought CJ would do this well?

*crickets*

*crickets*
Oh JParks is quite cocky. No doubt. But he's also a professional scout that has spent a ton of time around the Rangers farm system, especially the guys that were coming up around the time that Feliz and Elvis were.

I'm not saying that means you take it as gospel, just presenting it as information to consider.

And I'm not necessarily opposed to giving him another shot in spring training. But I don't consider the comparison to CJ to be very valid. CJ's repertoire is light years ahead of Neffy's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
FWIW - I just looked on that same site and David Murphy is listed as 7th for LF defense, just behind Hamilton who is 6th...

Link...
Well, to be fair, he's just behind in the rankings but quite a bit behind on the actual point totals.

And I don't have much quibble with that. I'd be curious to see where they'd rank Borbon in left. I suspect it would be quite high, especially considering his arm doesn't hurt him much there.

And on the flip side, I feel pretty confident in saying that Murphy would be positioned as below average in center by anyone that would vote on this. He just doesn't have the range for center.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com

Last edited by jthig32; 11-29-2010 at 02:28 PM.
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:30 PM   #118
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Well, to be fair, he's just behind in the rankings but quite a bit behind on the actual point totals.

And I don't have much quibble with that. I'd be curious to see where they'd rank Borbon in left. I suspect it would be quite high, especially considering his arm doesn't hurt him much there.

And on the flip side, I feel pretty confident in saying that Murphy would be positioned as below average in center by anyone that would vote on this. He just doesn't have the range for center.
Check my edit above...
__________________

Last edited by Male30Dan; 11-29-2010 at 02:31 PM.
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:33 PM   #119
jthig32
Lazy Moderator
 
jthig32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
jthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond reputejthig32 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Male29Dan View Post
Check my edit above...
Alright, maybe "same stratosphere" was hyperbolic. It's certainly not the first time I've been guilty of that.

It is interesting to note that Bill James has Murphy as the 3rd best left fielder in baseball, and Borbon as the 3rd best CF.
__________________
Current Mavs Salary outlook (with my own possibly incorrect math and assumptions)

Mavs Net Ratings By Game
(Using BRef.com calculations for possessions, so numbers are slightly different than what you'll see on NBA.com and ESPN.com
jthig32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 02:35 PM   #120
Male30Dan
Diamond Member
 
Male30Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
Male30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond reputeMale30Dan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32 View Post
Alright, maybe "same stratosphere" was hyperbolic. It's certainly not the first time I've been guilty of that.

It is interesting to note that Bill James has Murphy as the 3rd best left fielder in baseball, and Borbon as the 3rd best CF.
Equally interesting is that several "experts" didn't vote for Hamilton at all.
__________________
Male30Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.