With the first pick in the NFL Draft... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 04:13 PM

...the Dallas Cowboys:

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 04:19 PM

Maybe we do beat out Buffalo for the #1 overall spot or maybe this is for a top 5 pick. Either way, cast your vote and provide a name if you vote. Don't pick 'DRAFT A TACKLE' if you can't justify a tackle that should be picked with the first overall selection.

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 04:22 PM

My pick? Patrick Peterson out of LSU (or maybe Prince Amukamara out of Nebraska) as a starting CB opposite Jenkins. Newman starts the year as the FS.

chumdawg · 11-11-2010, 04:23 PM

Um..."draft a guard" is not a justifiable option. Probably the same with middle LB. And where are the options for QB or DL/OLB? Unless by "tackle" you meant DT as well.

The buzz I am hearing is the kid Luck from Stanford. But if the Cowboys were there, they should probably trade the pick.

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Um..."draft a guard" is not a justifiable option. Probably the same with middle LB. And where are the options for QB or DL/OLB? Unless by "tackle" you meant DT as well.

The buzz I am hearing is the kid Luck from Stanford. But if the Cowboys were there, they should probably trade the pick.

Um... "trade the pick" is pretty hard with a spot that high, as you likely already know. It happens, but it is hard to get enough value and most teams don't want to pull a Ditka.

We aren't going to pick a friggin QB and I just listed the options that this team has serious needs at barring injuries.

So shut up and vote with the options I gave you.

chumdawg · 11-11-2010, 04:45 PM

What the hell are you talking about, trade the pick is hard? Your memory must be very short.

If you want to talk about what the Cowboys needs are, you should have said exactly that. If you want to talk about how the Cowboys would use the first pick in the draft, then make realistic poll choices and don't waste time contemplating the idea that we might actually draft a guard with a top-five pick. Jeez.

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What the hell are you talking about, trade the pick is hard? Your memory must be very short.

If you want to talk about what the Cowboys needs are, you should have said exactly that. If you want to talk about how the Cowboys would use the first pick in the draft, then make realistic poll choices and don't waste time contemplating the idea that we might actually draft a guard with a top-five pick. Jeez.

Yes, my memory is very short. I don't even remember your dumb ass post just above my text so no need to waste my time on it.

chumdawg · 11-11-2010, 04:56 PM

This may jog your memory, then.

Quote:

1998
The draft has two seeming blue-chippers atop its board, in Tennessee's Peyton Manning and Washington State's Ryan Leaf. The Colts took Manning first overall and the Cardinals, sitting second and with Jake Plummer in house, auctioned the 2nd overall pick. They found a taker in San Diego, who sat one pick below in the 3rd slot. To move down one draft spot, the Cardinals picked up the Chargers' '99 1st rounder, their '98 2nd rounder and two veterans.

2001
The Chargers were now picking first, with Leaf having busted. They could not negotiate a contract with Michael Vick and fielded offers. The Falcons offered their 1st (the 5th overall pick) a 2nd and a 3rd rounder, in addition to punt returner Tim Dwight. New Chargers GM John Butler accepted and took LaDainian Tomlinson at five.

2004
San Diego again picks first and tries to work out a deal for top prospect Eli Manning. He does not want to play for San Diego and gets a ticket to New York when the Giants are able to draft Philip Rivers in the 4th spot. The Giants send Rivers, their '04 3rd rounder and their 1st and 5th rounders the following year for Manning.

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2010/10...ut-assets.html

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This may jog your memory, then.

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2010/10...ut-assets.html

I read that article too Chum. Thanks though.

I fully understand it can be done, but practically every year you have a team that would love to trade out and stock pile picks that can't find any takers. I watch the draft every single year and if you do as well you hear them talk about the team in that spot wanting to move down.

Sometimes you have a draft where a guy is perceived as an absolute can't miss talent (franchise QB for example) and the team doesn't want to trade down, but almost always the teams try and fail. Why? Typically the teams picking in those top 5 spots have NUMEROUS holes to fill. So to list 3 times that it happened (one being forced by a QB) out of 10+ years is to say that it can happen but is difficult. By the way, that is exactly what I said to begin with.

jleefilled · 11-11-2010, 05:21 PM

Sorry, I don't really have a name -- other than, Alan Ball -- to justify my thinking that the Cowboys should draft a safety first. I've heard that there are no offensive lineman that will be rated in the top ten of the draft so I think I'd like the Cowboys to use the second rounder on an offensive lineman.

sike · 11-11-2010, 05:37 PM

An O Line Stud or a defensive back stud.

But if there isn't a ball hawking safety to be at the top of the draft, I would do whatever possible to trade down. (Despite our track record, I feel that you can usually find workable street fighter type O Linemen in later rounds)

chumdawg · 11-11-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I read that article too Chum. Thanks though.

I fully understand it can be done, but practically every year you have a team that would love to trade out and stock pile picks that can't find any takers. I watch the draft every single year and if you do as well you hear them talk about the team in that spot wanting to move down.

Sometimes you have a draft where a guy is perceived as an absolute can't miss talent (franchise QB for example) and the team doesn't want to trade down, but almost always the teams try and fail. Why? Typically the teams picking in those top 5 spots have NUMEROUS holes to fill. So to list 3 times that it happened (one being forced by a QB) out of 10+ years is to say that it can happen but is difficult. By the way, that is exactly what I said to begin with.

I'm just guessing, but my guess is that most every year the teams in the top five or so could trade down if they wanted to. When they don't, it's probably because they like the value of staying where they are better than they like their trade offers. (Of course, there could be many reasons for that.) But I bet it almost never a case of can't-find-a-taker. Those high draft picks are extraordinarily coveted. You being a draftnik, I'm sure you are familiar with the value chart, and how skewed it is toward the premium picks.

But hey, you were the one who listed trading out as a poll option. I really don't get why you are arguing so hard against it, but whatever.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm just guessing, but my guess is that most every year the teams in the top five or so could trade down if they wanted to. When they don't, it's probably because they like the value of staying where they are better than they like their trade offers. (Of course, there could be many reasons for that.) But I bet it almost never a case of can't-find-a-taker. Those high draft picks are extraordinarily coveted. You being a draftnik, I'm sure you are familiar with the value chart, and how skewed it is toward the premium picks.

But hey, you were the one who listed trading out as a poll option. I really don't get why you are arguing so hard against it, but whatever.

Yes, I am familiar with the draft chart. Being familiar with it is why I understand just how much a team has to give up to move up into the top spot (or even top 5). That is why it is difficult. Most teams don't want to give up the value that they have to. They do, obviously, which is why the poll option is there. Same with the guard spot. It IS a weakness of this team so it is listed. Likely? Nope. But it IS an option that IS a weakness.

I don't get the frustration here. Just pick and explain if you want to participate or move on if you don't like the poll.

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 11:59 AM

I really like Patrick Peterson then Prince...both will be welcome additions as CBs and move Tnew to slot....and have one of those stud CB's opposite Mike Jenkins.

Would also love another LB...go back to a 4-3 with Ware, Spencer, and Stud LB as the starters and get a fat tackle to help Ratliff in the middle

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 12:09 PM

Who knows, with Fox's name being dropped so much a change to the 4-3 could end up taking place.

Underdog · 11-12-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Who knows, with Fox's name being dropped so much a change to the 4-3 could end up taking place.

I have no interest in Fox, but a 4-3 defense might not be a bad idea.

The 3-4 never really worked in Dallas - it's not like we created much pressure on the QB (even though we constantly blitzed) and we've been one of the worst teams at forcing turnovers the past few seasons.

dalmations202 · 11-12-2010, 12:31 PM

Is there a young Ray Lewis out there? A can't miss linebacker?
What about a can't miss DE?

If you aren't going to draft a QB, WR nope, TE nope, LT - nope, OLB- nope:

That leaves CB - which you aren't too bad at, ILB, and DE, which get 1st round grades.

Of course any player that is a sure bet at any position is fine.

Stud DE - I can see this.
Stud LB -- a true leader of the defense and playmaker - one to play by Lee next year.

Maybe you move TNew and draft a stud CB...I guess??????

Find a Stud DE though, move Ratliff to DE, and get a huge guy that can hold the middle -- now you are talking. Ware,Ratliff, HUGE NT, Stud DE, Spencer/Butler -- now that is a defensive line.

Finding a Center, RT, and guards is doable, but using some of the draft picks for trading for known veterans makes sense here to me.

I don't know the players available, but with the eye test they could use OL, ILB, DL, Safeties, and a corner or two.

IMO - best player on the team right now -- McBriar (and he isn't as good as he has been).

** Note: If you draft high enough to have the ability to get a franchise QB -- you draft him (every year if needed). Trading off a good QB is easy because lots of teams need one.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

** Note: If you draft high enough to have the ability to get a franchise QB -- you draft him (every year if needed). Trading off a good QB is easy because lots of teams need one.

I personally don't subscribe to that theory, but I understand it could work. To me, if you have a chance to get a franchise CB and that is what you will end up trading for later, just pick the guy when you have the chance.

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I have no interest in Fox, but a 4-3 defense might not be a bad idea.

The 3-4 never really worked in Dallas - it's not like we created much pressure on the QB (even though we constantly blitzed) and we've been one of the worst teams at forcing turnovers the past few seasons.

If they switch back to a 4-3 they will have to wait til next year b/c they do not have 4-3 type players...even if they brought in a new coach after this season they still will not be able to switch.

Pasqualoni is the defensive coordinator b/c he is the only coach left on the staff that knows how to run a 3-4

You are right a 3-4 defense has never worked as far as QB pressure...it only works to keep the opponents total yardage down...but they were pretty good defensively up until this year using the 3-4, with the same players from last year except Ball....was Ken Hamlin underrated?

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 01:50 PM

Don't forget Bobby Carpenter.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Don't forget Bobby Carpenter.

I tell you someone else not to forget. Flozell.

dalmations202 · 11-12-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I personally don't subscribe to that theory, but I understand it could work. To me, if you have a chance to get a franchise CB and that is what you will end up trading for later, just pick the guy when you have the chance.

I guess it depends on how you grade them out.

If I have the chance at a Peyton Manning or a Deion Sanders -- I still take Peyton. Peyton touches the ball every play on offense - Deion shuts down a side - as long as he isn't making "business decisions".

I think if I drafted Joe Montana one year, and John Elway the next -- I think I could still trade either one for "any" CB in the league.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I guess it depends on how you grade them out.

If I have the chance at a Peyton Manning or a Deion Sanders -- I still take Peyton. Peyton touches the ball every play on offense - Deion shuts down a side - as long as he isn't making "business decisions".

I think if I drafted Joe Montana one year, and John Elway the next -- I think I could still trade either one for "any" CB in the league.

Like I said, I see how it could work, but I would be very disappointed if we select Luck with our 1st pick instead of selecting someone that fills a need. I likewise wouldn't at all be upset with trading down if it gets us a 2nd #1 next year and a #2 this year (among other things depending on how far we drop in the 1st) but as I pointed out to Chum, that could prove difficult.

dalmations202 · 11-12-2010, 04:22 PM

I don't know how Luck grades out. Is he a no miss franchise QB?
IF SO -- Draft him. If he grades out like Aikman, Manning, Montana, or Elway take him.

If you have the chance to draft any player that grades out as a franchise player -- take them.

Either way, draft best player available with needs factored into the grade as well as position.

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 04:46 PM

Some thoughts on safety... Without question, a HUGE need. However...I haven't looked closely at this year's safety crop, but safety in the top ten of the draft always scares me. We don't want to end up with another Michael Huff. That high in the draft, the guy has to be a can't miss prospect. It seems like safety is better suited for the end of the first or top of the second.

Also on safety... I was very disappointed to see that we had to cut Stephen Hodge, the former TCU great, this week. I was holding out huge hope that he could be a LB/S hybrid in the Darren Woodson mode.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I don't know how Luck grades out. Is he a no miss franchise QB?
IF SO -- Draft him. If he grades out like Aikman, Manning, Montana, or Elway take him.

If you have the chance to draft any player that grades out as a franchise player -- take them.

Either way, draft best player available with needs factored into the grade as well as position.

Well, if the guy is a future Hall of Fame-level guy, sure (sheesh Dalm, you forgot Favre/Marino when listing the best QBs EVER).

I can see the case being made but there are franchise QBs that are a far cry from those listed above. If you know you have a Bailey/Deion waiting there to fix one of the biggest problems on your team and you already have a stud QB that will be here for 4-5 more years, I would much prefer to take that CB or trade down.

mavs777 · 11-15-2010, 03:11 AM

Not a Cowboys fan: But they have to go with Peterson or Bowers

ribosoma · 11-15-2010, 04:16 PM

I would trade down if they wind up with a top-10 pick, and maybe even a top-15, to grab Deunta Williams, FS, from North Carolina. Then, with an extra second for trading down (hopefully a high second), I grab Mike Pouncey, Guard, from Florida or maybe Marcus Cannon, projected to be a Guard in the NFL, from TCU. With their second 2nd round pick, I would grab either Stefen Wisniewski, Guard/Center, from Penn State, Quan Sturdivant, ILB, from North Carolina, or Sione Fua, NT, from Stanford.

LetsGoMavs · 11-15-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Not a Cowboys fan: But they have to go with Peterson or Bowers

Are you serious?

No way would I take a 3-4 DE with a #1-10 overall selection. They just aren't playmakers enough to warrant a pick that high. You draft playmakers when you´re drafting that high.

The Cowboys can easily find a DE with their second/third pick that will have just as much impact on the game as anyone they could get with their 1st. 3-4 DEs are like the punters of defensive players... :

...Simply not worth 1st round picks.