Official 2011-2012 Texas Rangers' Offseason Thread - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 01-17-2012, 08:46 PM

Yep, this regime has shown time and time again that they do not want their business out in the open for all to know. People shouldn't forget the info that was leaking concerning Darvish... Rangers were mildly interested..probably in the middle of the pack.. Then as the bid time got closer.. it was that the Rangers had finished second.. Not alot of people thought the Rangers would win the darvish sweepstakes. They don't put their business out for all to hear.

mavspwnage · 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM

With the Darvish deadline in less than 7 hours, I have mixed feelings. The majority of me wants this to get done and for Darvish to officially get inked. But a small part of me wants 4pm to come with no deal. Because at 4:01, I would order my Prince Fielder jersey.

alby · 01-18-2012, 01:10 PM

As of 11:50AM

@jonmorosi #Rangers and Yu Darvish are still working on details, but they are making good progress. Four hours to deadline.

Kirobaito · 01-18-2012, 01:36 PM

I'd say the nervousness over Yu is causing my work output to drop significantly, but it's really not. Hard to drop significantly from zero.

Ninkobei · 01-18-2012, 01:44 PM

Is anyone else refreshing the Rangers webpage every ten minutes?

Friend and I were having a debate, how much do you think Hamilton would get on the open market? I dont think he can get more than $15 mil a year. Friend thinks 25 is expected.

mavspwnage · 01-18-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Is anyone else refreshing the Rangers webpage every ten minutes?

Friend and I were having a debate, how much do you think Hamilton would get on the open market? I dont think he can get more than $15 mil a year. Friend thinks 25 is expected.

It will depend on how this season goes. Hamilton would have to play a full injury free season this year for teams to even consider $20 mil, IMO. There is just no way teams will go even close to $25 mil with his kind of injury history. I think the best case scenario for him would be getting maybe 5 years at an absolute max of $100 mil. But I wouldn't even expect that much. And again, that's if he plays a full season.

alby · 01-18-2012, 02:56 PM

1:30pm

Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports that the Rangers and Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish are finalizing a six-year contract.
Darvish reportedly was aiming for a five-year deal that would enable him to hit free agency a year sooner, but the Rangers have apparently found a way to convince him otherwise. Previous reports have indicated that he was offered a deal similar in value to the six-year, $52 million deal Daisuke Matsuzaka signed with the Red Sox in December of 2006, but chances are this contract will be even bigger. We'll find out just how much in a matter of hours, as Heyman hears that a deal will indeed get done prior to the 5 p.m. ET deadline.

Source: Jon Heyman on Twitter

jthig32 · 01-18-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Is anyone else refreshing the Rangers webpage every ten minutes?

Friend and I were having a debate, how much do you think Hamilton would get on the open market? I dont think he can get more than $15 mil a year. Friend thinks 25 is expected.

Rangers webpage???

You need twitter. Or any number of other Ranger sites/blogs.

mavspwnage · 01-18-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Rangers webpage???

You need twitter. Or any number of other Ranger sites/blogs.

The difference is that mlb.com and the team affiliate sites is official. Twitter is just a bunch of people spreading rumors. Sure, you will get the news faster that way, but I like official news as opposed to some account that may or may not be a legit source.

Male30Dan · 01-18-2012, 03:35 PM

Very excited! Great day to be a Rangers' fan!

Now, on to Fielder!

Kirobaito · 01-18-2012, 04:55 PM

5 years plus player option for 6th. Done. 4 minutes to spare, too!

6 years, 60 mil. I'll take that any day.

jthig32 · 01-18-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

The difference is that mlb.com and the team affiliate sites is official. Twitter is just a bunch of people spreading rumors. Sure, you will get the news faster that way, but I like official news as opposed to some account that may or may not be a legit source.

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between rumors and legit, but unconfirmed, news.

To each his own, but imo, Twitter is freaking awesome for things like this.

alby · 01-18-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

The difference is that mlb.com and the team affiliate sites is official. Twitter is just a bunch of people spreading rumors. Sure, you will get the news faster that way, but I like official news as opposed to some account that may or may not be a legit source.

But those official sites use Twitter as a source.

alby · 01-18-2012, 06:50 PM

Anyways, good to have Yu.

What's next for the best front office in the league?

Male30Dan · 01-19-2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Anyways, good to have Yu.

What's next for the best front office in the league?

Ninkobei · 01-19-2012, 10:26 AM

The ticket did a numbers break down of so-called "Fat Bats" earlier. Normal players hit their peak at 26, but fatbats peak at 23, with a steady level-off or decline in production. And when they hit 30 things just fall apart. Fielder is 5'11 275lbs that should be very concerning. Also apparently his 1st base defense is marginal.

edit: also JD said that Fielder was never really a target, but he won't close the door and is always open for business. However he didn't sound too optimistic about signing him.

jthig32 · 01-19-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

The ticket did a numbers break down of so-called "Fat Bats" earlier. Normal players hit their peak at 26, but fatbats peak at 23, with a steady level-off or decline in production. And when they hit 30 things just fall apart. Fielder is 5'11 275lbs that should be very concerning. Also apparently his 1st base defense is marginal.

edit: also JD said that Fielder was never really a target, but he won't close the door and is always open for business. However he didn't sound too optimistic about signing him.

Who on the ticket did this? Because while "fat bats" (meaning big sluggers who are typically three true outcome hitters) do tend to break down faster, a peak at 23 sounds ridiculous. I very, very seriously doubt this "study".

Kirobaito · 01-19-2012, 12:21 PM

Most guys are rookies at the age of 23. Who exactly peaks in their rookie season?

Ninkobei · 01-19-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Who on the ticket did this? Because while "fat bats" (meaning big sluggers who are typically three true outcome hitters) do tend to break down faster, a peak at 23 sounds ridiculous. I very, very seriously doubt this "study".

Junior said it this morning around 7:00. He went into a lot of detail about it and I dont remember everything he said. Trying to find his source.. Granted, it's a muser but its not Gordo. lol

Quote:

Most guys are rookies at the age of 23. Who exactly peaks in their rookie season?

Well, Prince Fielder for one. That was the year he hit 50 HRs and 119 RBIs. Although I guess you could make an argument for his 25yr season where he hit 46 and 141 (albeit at more bats, and with fewer runs).

Edit: Here is something, not quite it though
http://mlbreports.com/2012/01/16/tall-heavy/

Further edit: I think this is the real info. VERY interesting
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...e-fielder-age/

Quote:

In order to attempt to predict what Fielder will do over the life of his next contract, we should compare him to players with similar body types. Jeff Zimmerman has put together a list of 205 players who weigh more than 3.25 lbs per inch of height in order to construct an aging curve. To put that in perspective, a 6’0″ tall player would have to weigh a minimum of 234 lbs in order to be included in the sample.

jthig32 · 01-19-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Well, Prince Fielder for one. That was the year he hit 50 HRs and 119 RBIs. Although I guess you could make an argument for his 25yr season where he hit 46 and 141 (albeit at more bats, and with fewer runs).

He also had virtually the same OPS (it was actually slightly higher) in his age 25 season. How many runs he scored or knocked in is not really relevant to the discussion. Their slash lines were very comparable, thus the almost identical OPS. So, the idea that he peeked at 23 is completely out the window when turns in an almost carbon copy season at 25.

The Fangraphs article is interesting, but it's including positional and UZR data, and it's sample size for fatties is all of 205 players.

I'm perfectly willing to accept the notion that bigger players peak sooner, but at 23? No. And if the Ranger sign him they won't care at all if he gets worse in the field, because in two years he'll be a DH.

Ninkobei · 01-19-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm perfectly willing to accept the notion that bigger players peak sooner, but at 23? No. And if the Ranger sign him they won't care at all if he gets worse in the field, because in two years he'll be a DH.

That's another thing. Paying 17-20 mil a year for a DH seems a bit foolish. JD isn't that frivolous, especially when there are valuable older players who can fill the role nearly as well for a lot less. That kind of money can be put to a lot better uses, IMO.

jthig32 · 01-19-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

That's another thing. Paying 17-20 mil a year for a DH seems a bit foolish. JD isn't that frivolous, especially when there are valuable older players who can fill the role nearly as well for a lot less. That kind of money can be put to a lot better uses, IMO.

I'm going to need you to define "nearly as well". The guys that hit "nearly as well" as Prince Fielder still get paid an awful lot of money.

Again, I understand why it's a risk, but let's not miss the point on how good Fielder is. He's a better hitter than anyone we have on our team. I would much, much rather give Fielder that kind of money than give it to Josh. You can't just wake up any off season and sign a hitter the caliber of Prince Fielder.

Ninkobei · 01-19-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm going to need you to define "nearly as well". The guys that hit "nearly as well" as Prince Fielder still get paid an awful lot of money.

Again, I understand why it's a risk, but let's not miss the point on how good Fielder is. He's a better hitter than anyone we have on our team. I would much, much rather give Fielder that kind of money than give it to Josh. You can't just wake up any off season and sign a hitter the caliber of Prince Fielder.

Alright, lets look at Vladimir in 2010 - 29 homeruns and 115 RBIs for roughly $8 mil. Pretty good value. Can we put Napoli on the list? He was signed to be DH last year but turned into the starting catcher.
Hank Blalock in 2009, 25 homers. Milton Bradley in 2008 22HR and .321 avg.

jthig32 · 01-19-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Alright, lets look at Vladimir in 2010 - 29 homeruns and 115 RBIs for roughly $8 mil. Pretty good value. Can we put Napoli on the list? He was signed to be DH last year but turned into the starting catcher.
Hank Blalock in 2009, 25 homers. Milton Bradley in 2008 22HR and .321 avg.

Napoli is going to be very expensive after this season. And we traded for him, we didn't sign him.

No one else you listed are even close to "nearly as good" as what Prince Fielder would be in this ballpark.

Prince Fielder is someone that anchors an entire lineup and carries a team. That's Josh's role on this team, except he probably won't be doing it beyond this season. You have to replace a dynamic bat like that somehow. Picking up your random scrap heap player and hoping they're decent is not how you replace your anchor when you're a World Series contender.

BTW, Hank Blalock had a .736 OPS in 2008, and got on base at a .277 clip. Let's please not ever mention that again, especially not when trying to prove a point about finding productive players.

LonghornDub · 01-19-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

The difference is that mlb.com and the team affiliate sites is official. Twitter is just a bunch of people spreading rumors. Sure, you will get the news faster that way, but I like official news as opposed to some account that may or may not be a legit source.

My mom still reads the print newspaper.

Male30Dan · 01-19-2012, 05:38 PM

Man, I just don't get hating on the idea of signing Fielder. I too see the potential risks, but this is a young stud that has shown no issues with injury despite the large frame. I wonder how many of the 205 athletes from that list could say that they averaged 158 games over their career up to his age. I would guess literally none of them or, at best, 5%. Hell, I wonder how many MLB players at any size could say that...

Guy is a beast and Thiggy said it best - he would immediately be our best hitter. When you think about how many great hitters we have, that is saying something.

Bottom line - If he is available and the money can be spent without mortgaging the future (Josh leaving is NOT mortgaging the future by the way), then you absolutely positively sign this man.

Ninkobei · 01-20-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Man, I just don't get hating on the idea of signing Fielder. I too see the potential risks, but this is a young stud that has shown no issues with injury despite the large frame. I wonder how many of the 205 athletes from that list could say that they averaged 158 games over their career up to his age. I would guess literally none of them or, at best, 5%. Hell, I wonder how many MLB players at any size could say that...

Guy is a beast and Thiggy said it best - he would immediately be our best hitter. When you think about how many great hitters we have, that is saying something.

Bottom line - If he is available and the money can be spent without mortgaging the future (Josh leaving is NOT mortgaging the future by the way), then you absolutely positively sign this man.

I guess this will just be a 'time will tell' argument. He would immediately be making the most money of any ranger and plays marginal defense. To those who were upset at Napoli's firstbase blunders in the world series, you could expect similar things from Fielder. Also, since 2006 he has been the second worse baserunner in baseball, which seems to be a bad fit for the aggressive Rangers.

Again, not saying that he is a bad player just that his price-to-performance ratio isn't exactly what a good organization, with reasonable salary restrictions, would feel comfortable with. Sure if every team had the money of the Yankee's he would be signed in no time flat.

another good read:
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/1/20/...s-and-ham.html

alby · 01-20-2012, 11:05 AM

There's no way signing Prince can be painted into a negative light.

He's young, he's a lefty, and he's been producing in the NL. Imagine his swing in our ballpark. Secondly, even if signing him means we lose our beloved Josh, just imagine the one year where we have both. Two power hitters from the left side to go with the rest of our lineup.

Best case scenario:
1. Sign Yu
2. Sign Prince
3. Win the ship in 2012.
4. Josh plays out of his mind in the 2012 playoffs forcing the Rangers to resign him. =)

Male30Dan · 01-20-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

There's no way signing Prince can be painted into a negative light.

He's young, he's a lefty, and he's been producing in the NL. Imagine his swing in our ballpark. Secondly, even if signing him means we lose our beloved Josh, just imagine the one year where we have both. Two power hitters from the left side to go with the rest of our lineup.

Best case scenario:
1. Sign Yu
2. Sign Prince
3. Win the ship in 2012.
4. Josh plays out of his mind in the 2012 playoffs forcing the Rangers to resign him. =)

Agreed - not negative at all.

Bottom line, given Ryan's comments today, I would actually be surprised if we aren't working hard to find a way to get Fielder here. Might not happen, but I would be very surprised if we just ruled it out given his price. Tire kicking is most definitely taking place. Here is hoping we decide to upgrade our Pinto (Moreland) with a Viper!

Male30Dan · 01-20-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

I guess this will just be a 'time will tell' argument. He would immediately be making the most money of any ranger and plays marginal defense. To those who were upset at Napoli's firstbase blunders in the world series, you could expect similar things from Fielder. Also, since 2006 he has been the second worse baserunner in baseball, which seems to be a bad fit for the aggressive Rangers.

Again, not saying that he is a bad player just that his price-to-performance ratio isn't exactly what a good organization, with reasonable salary restrictions, would feel comfortable with. Sure if every team had the money of the Yankee's he would be signed in no time flat.

another good read:
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/1/20/...s-and-ham.html

Agreed - the read was a good one. And it ended just as the book did - with the writer admitting that he was now a fan of the odd combination.

For the record, you don't have to have 9 sprint stars on a team that likes to run aggressively. That's actually a good thing that his teammates are that way. When they get on with singles they make it home on his doubles. He doesn't have to steal bases to be VERY, VERY important for us.

Also for the record, compare Fielder to Moreland defensively. Go ahead, check it out. I think you will be surprised.

Kirobaito · 01-20-2012, 03:28 PM

Fielder may be a poor baserunner, but the Rangers were so heavily the best baserunning team in baseball last year (ridiculously so) that Pettis's work has to be a part of that. Having Pettis there to help might mitigate some of Fielder's problems, even if it doesn't change the fact that he's slow and fat.

Ninkobei · 01-20-2012, 03:56 PM

Yu's contract details are out. His 6th year is a player option, if he thinks he can get more money elsewhere then he can opt out. That part kind of bummed me out

Quote:

2012: $5.5 million

2013: $9.5 million

2014: $10 million

2015: $10 million

2016: $10 million

2017: $11 million

-- Jeff Wilson

Read more here: http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com...breakdown.html

Kirobaito · 01-20-2012, 03:58 PM

He only gets the sixth year option if he's a total bad-ass and finishes high enough in Cy Young balloting multiple years. If he does that, then the Rangers got their value out of him anyway. Great contract, IMO.

Ninkobei · 01-20-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

He only gets the sixth year option if he's a total bad-ass and finishes high enough in Cy Young balloting multiple years. If he does that, then the Rangers got their value out of him anyway. Great contract, IMO.

Oh apparently the 51.7 mil posting fee will count 8.6 mil against the cap for the next 6 years as well.

Male30Dan · 01-20-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Oh apparently the 51.7 mil posting fee will count 8.6 mil against the cap for the next 6 years as well.

Seriously? I had never heard that it works like this. Obviously there is no "cap" but I assumed you just meant our annual budget. Odd.

Ninkobei · 01-20-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Seriously? I had never heard that it works like this. Obviously there is no "cap" but I assumed you just meant our annual budget. Odd.

There's also a luxury tax but it's at a ridiculously high 180+ million

mavspwnage · 01-21-2012, 01:17 AM

Darvish press conference was today. Video/article at link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_tex&c_id=tex

mavspwnage · 01-21-2012, 01:30 AM

lol

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...022449449.html

mavspwnage · 01-21-2012, 02:13 PM

A few Fielder to the Rangers rumors are flying around the interwebs today.

Rick41 · 01-22-2012, 11:26 PM

https://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedb...99069711564800

Quote:

**BREAKING MLB NEWS**Source: Texas Rangers have swooped in & signed the best player left on market PRINCE FIELDER #Arlington bound

https://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedb...98842925543424

Quote:

**BREAKING MLB NEWS**Source: Texas Rangers have what they consider as a *DEAL* in principle with Prince Fielder (Source: Will Get Done!)

Ruh roh. I don't know if this account is reliable or not.