Lakers or Celtics?

[TripleDipping]

If the NBA just kick me in the nutsack and call it series, it would've been OK with me.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't want KG to get a ring.

I love you.

[sike]

I just hate the pre-fabed Celts....

and I hate/love Kobe.

[Dirkadirkastan]

I wish this was a public poll. That way I would know who to invite to my non-watch party.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I wish this was a public poll. That way I would know who to invite to my non-watch party.

you can invite my Grandmother....she doesn't watch much basketball.

[ghazi]

the KG v Dirk debate will be there regardless of whether KG wins or not.

But if the Lakers win, the media might be shallow enough to begin a PAU v Dirk debate.. that would truly sicken me.

[sike]

Originally Posted by ghazi

But if the Lakers win, the media might be shallow enough to begin a PAU v Dirk debate.. that would truly sicken me.

not a chance.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by sike

you can invite my Grandmother....she doesn't watch much basketball.

I might, but I prefer people of the boycott mentality.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I might, but I prefer people of the boycott mentality.

I saved a tree once...

[antoinewalker]

not that i'm a lakers fan but i want the lakers to sweep the celtics.

[Gus]

Where's the poll option for David Stern being taken away on national TV in handcuffs and the remainder of the season being cancelled?

[alby]

Go Celtics.

[chumdawg]

In what ways is West giving Gasol to the Lakers different from Cuban giving Nash to the Suns? Well, one way is that the Grizzlies did actually get something of value back.

Hey, maybe Cuban is getting a spiff from Stern for all that revenue coming out of Arizona and all the interest that was generated in the NBA based on the wild, wild West. Can we really be sure that our hands aren't equally red?

[kg_veteran]

WayOutWest corrected me on the Jerry West thing, so I feel obliged to correct everyone in this thread who has gotten it wrong, just to get the facts straight. Jerry West retired in the summer of 2007, the year before Gasol was traded.

Now, that doesn't change my mind on the collusion involved in the trade, but West wasn't the perpetrator.

As for Chum, you would have to bring this back to your boy Nash. There's no connection there, but why should that stop you?

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

In what ways is West giving Gasol to the Lakers different from Cuban giving Nash to the Suns? Well, one way is that the Grizzlies did actually get something of value back.

Seriously? This really has to turn into a "Cuban let Steve Nash walk" conversation again? Seriously?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

As for Chum, you would have to bring this back to your boy Nash. There's no connection there, but why should that stop you?

What connection is there to anything? I'm hearing left and right that Gasol-to-the-Lakers is outright evidence of a vast conspiracy theory. I'm trying to remind people that the Mavericks clearly established the validity of the strategy that involves the apparent "giving away an asset for nothing." Of course, with the Mavs we were talking about Steve Nash, a guy with skills enough to win a couple MVP's, and with Gasol we are talking about a guy who this board used to enjoy belittling based on his ineffective performances against our Mavericks...but I think the point still stands. There clearly are motives for trades that extend beyond get-talent-for-the-talent-you-give, as evidenced by the Mavs streaking to the NBA Finals once they changed course after Nash.

Why do the Mavs get painted geniuses for their move--which involved the team getting absolutely nothing in return--and the Grizzlies get painted criminals for their move, which actually brought some assets back to the club?

It has nothing to do with Nash or Gasol, except that they were the two guys in specific. It has everything to do with strategy. Why was the Mavs' strategy so brilliant and the Grizz's strategy such obvious proof of conspiracy?

I mean...you WILL recognize that Nash led the resurgence of the Suns franchise, right? How's come that is all good and well, but the resurgence of the Lakers franchise with the addition of Gasol was shady?

I'm just saying...think about it. If you are the type who sees ghosts under the beds, you might not have to look any further than your own Dallas Mavericks.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Seriously? This really has to turn into a "Cuban let Steve Nash walk" conversation again? Seriously?

It's a shame your imagination is so limited.

[rabbitproof]

While Chum is obviously bitter, stubborn and a hater about this issue, he has a legit point.

I hope someone can respond better to his valid point than I but I would say the first sign that this is more conspiracy-like is that the team involved made it to the Finals in their first go while, sure, the other team got two MVPs out of it but never even lost a Finals game.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I wish this was a public poll. That way I would know who to invite to my non-watch party.

count me in

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Seriously? This really has to turn into a "Cuban let Steve Nash walk" conversation again? Seriously?

It is a relevant point actually.

However, I still think the main difference is Jerry West. Yes, I now understand he's not the current president. Still, if it's reasonable to suspect collusion as kg_veteran has said, then it's certainly not far-fetched to propose that West may still have "connections" within the Memphis franchise.

[dude1394]

I don't think the nashie and the gasol deal are anywhere close to the same situation. Not in the same solar system.

The deal between nashie and the suns were between nashie and the suns. It was also strictly above board in all respects. After the season, when everyone had a shot at free-agents. A counter-offer was made (some say quite equitable) and the suns upped it and the other party didn't match. Completely above board. Suns had the cap room and bought a player.

The grizzlies situation was a pretty involved deal between two clubs concerning multiple players. This wasn't gasols call at all, this was memphis's.

So why would memphis not take better offers that had been reported to be out there? Why would they not wait, what was the hurry, the lakers deal was pathetically bad, they couldn't get anything better?

Gasol wasn't traded at the trade deadline. It was done Feb 1, the trading deadline was 20 days away. The grizzlies were raped like someone being guarded by the UN. And like the UN the NBA looked the other way.

I don't have a clue how much stern did/did not know, I expect that as usual he knows all about it and chooses what he does/doesn't want to focus on. He'd rather fine players for flopping and enforce a dress code than ever admit that somethings wrong with the competitive balance of his league or the fairness of the game on the court. He's had a pretty blind, secretive and extremely vindictive eye to any criticism there. Stern has to approve any and all trades, they've done things to keep other teams from screwing themselves over before, but this one...ah well..maybe we can think about it later, after the lakers get into the finals.

Whatever the reasons for allowing this type of situation to occur...at the end of the day it enriched a marquee team that the nba would like to see in the finals, while it pushed another fringe team closer to having to move. It sucked imo and shouldn't have been allowed.

The Los Angeles Lakers have acquired forward Pau Gasol in a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies, it was announced today by General Manager Mitch Kupchak. The Lakers will also receive the Grizzlies second round draft choice in 2010. In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010.

[Big Money]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

I got more to say about this conspiracy thing. This HAS to be the biggest slime ball league of all sports got their wish. This match up has been planned since Boston acquired Garnet. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want, but before you do...consider this.

1)Jerry West and the Memphis Grizzlies gaze up Pau Gasol for NOTHING.

2)Joey Crawford, a KNOWN Spurs hater, called a clearly one sided game in game 4 including NOT calling a foul on Derek Fisher on the last play.

3)Jerry West, an employee of the damn Grizzlies, presents the Western Conference Championship trophy at center court sobbing with a smile ear to ear. You can almost hear him say "mission accomplished". And yes, I know he's a Laker great, but he still works for the team that made it possible for the Lakers to be where they are now.

Call me a hater. Call me a conspiracy theorist. I call the NBA a league with slime ball tactics lower than pond scum. David Stern from year one, when he rigged the draft so the Knicks could get Patrick Ewing, has been on a mission to make damn sure this league is a profitable one even if it means compromising the integrity of the league and all of sports.

ok, Ill call you a hater, lol

1. Jerry West has been unemployed for 2 years

2. The game was called lobsided, but in the Spurs favor all game. Watch it, I really dont think you saw anything but the highlights. It seemed as though Crawford was trying to show that he held no animosity toward the Spurs. The only call that went the Lakers way was the last call. Just rewind to 5 seconds earlier, Fishers shot hit the rim and a new 24 should have gone in place, so the Barry scenario should have never happened.

3. The NBA wants former legends to present the WC and EC trophys. They want to make a big deal about it. Again he is NOT a Memphis employee for the last 2 years.


If you beleive in conspiracy theorys then answer this: Bulls management spoke out about how Grizzlies didnt trade Pau to Chicago for better pieces, then Memphis swings back by basically saying STFU if your owner wasnt willing to pay the luxury tax. No response from Chicago since.

Memphis wanted to cut salary to sell the team, not get extended contracts, so even though Marion for PAu would have been a fair trade for Phoenix, thats not what Memphis was looking for. The problem is that he went to a good team, usually these players get traded to wack or mediocre teams and no one cares, but this was the lakers so people are quick to raise suspicions now. If he got traded to the Clippers, would anyone care?

[alby]

I don't understand how Jerry West being retired during the time of the Pau trade hinders conspiracy theorists... In fact, it may even support their ideas

[Dirkadirkastan]

Ah, a Laker fan by the name "Big Money". Why would I have expected differently?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Because it's all just really weird. After the 2007 finals, which had the worst ratings since 1980 or whatever, it "just so happens" that the Celtics, who were an absolute joke last year, get two steals in the offseason. Then, it "just so happens" that the Lakers get an all-star, from a team who has Jerry West of all people as an executive, for less than squat. Then, it "just so happens" that both teams get #1 seeds, and it "just so happens" they meet in the finals, even though no #1 has made the finals since 2003.

If these teams gradually built their powerhouses over time like everybody else, it would be far less suspicious. But teams almost never go from rags to riches in one year. This year we have not one, but TWO instances of this, and they are the two teams that "just so happen" to have made the great rivalry in the 80's.

Hey, if those teams saved the NBA's ratings then, why not now?

It's been 4 whole years since 2 #1 seeds made it to the Finals, so that means it shouldn't have happened this year?

These were the two best teams in the league this year, and that's all there is to it. You don't rig a Finals by letting teams make good trades, because that doesn't guarantee anything. If the NBA was fixing this stuff, they'd have a much better method than "allowing" KG and Allen to go to Boston.

[Dirkadirkastan]

The Lakers were a mediocre #7 seed last year, and the Celtics were DEAD LAST IN THE EAST.

Yes, it was the roster changes that made all the difference.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

The Lakers were a mediocre #7 seed last year, and the Celtics were DEAD LAST IN THE EAST.

Yes, it was the roster changes that made all the difference.

Don't think you're getting me (at all). Of course it was the roster changes that made the difference. What I'm saying is that the NBA wasn't involved in fixing or rigging those roster changes. Do you really believe they were? That they somehow hooked up McHale and Ainge like two teenagers on a blind date?

The Celtics trade was completely fair. Absolutely nothing shady about it. The Gasol trade, not so much, but it's still quite unreasonable to believe that the NBA purposefully set that thing in motion. Now, they may have scrutinized it a bit less because it was their precious Lakers, but it's absurd to imply that anybody other than Kupchek and West were responsible for getting that thing in the air.

[Progresso]

There is a large amount of envy, no wait, jealousy is the word that best described the sternphobia in this forum. My second favorite team is the Mavs only after the lakers. What mavs fans should be focusing on now is not on conspiracy theories, but how to improve the Mavs squad for next year. Why cry over spoiled milk? The lakers were by far the superior team and they will prove over the next series. Quote me, any doubters will be silenced then.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Progresso

There is a large amount of envy, no wait, jealousy is the word that best described the sternphobia in this forum. My second favorite team is the Mavs only after the lakers. What mavs fans should be focusing on now is not on conspiracy theories, but how to improve the Mavs squad for next year. Why cry over spoiled milk? The lakers were by far the superior team and they will prove over the next series. Quote me, any doubters will be silenced then.

Well quite frankly I'm not sure many folks are arguing that. Just a little distressed to see such a collusion occur between two nba clubs. Without which, the lakers would be sitting on their asses while probably utah/spurts would be duking it out.

[fluid.forty.one]

I gag every time I see this thread title.

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by Progresso

There is a large amount of envy, no wait, jealousy is the word that best described the sternphobia in this forum. My second favorite team is the Mavs only after the lakers. What mavs fans should be focusing on now is not on conspiracy theories, but how to improve the Mavs squad for next year. Why cry over spoiled milk? The lakers were by far the superior team and they will prove over the next series. Quote me, any doubters will be silenced then.

Mavs fans don't have a say in how the Mavs roster will be constructed next year, so it's not an obligatory point of focus. In any case you will see plenty of threads where there is discussion about the off season and what changes need to be made .

Of course we're jealous of the Celtics and Lakers right now, they're in the Finals and we only won 1 game in the playoffs... that doesn't mean we can't have sour grapes about their obnoxious, bandwagon fans and collusion trades though, I most certainly do

What makes you think the Lakers are "by far" superior to the Celtics? The celtics swept the regular season meeting, had a higher margin of victory, AND a better W/L record.

I think the reason 8/8 ESPN analysts picked the Lakers was because of the 0-6 road start in the playoffs. The celtics seem to have fixed that dilemma though winning 2 of the last 3 games IN detroit. detroit only had 10 home losses this year, 3 of which came to Boston.

Final thoughts: the 2006 Finals were rigged

[Big Money]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Ah, a Laker fan by the name "Big Money". Why would I have expected differently?

so since I dont beleive in your conspiracy BS I must be a laker fan right?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Big Money

so since I dont beleive in your conspiracy BS I must be a laker fan right?

Every good conspiracy theorist knows that if you are not one of us, then you are one of them. And if you deny it, your denial is evidence enough that you might be one of Them.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Progresso

There is a large amount of envy, no wait, jealousy is the word that best described the sternphobia in this forum. My second favorite team is the Mavs only after the lakers. What mavs fans should be focusing on now is not on conspiracy theories, but how to improve the Mavs squad for next year. Why cry over spoiled milk? The lakers were by far the superior team and they will prove over the next series. Quote me, any doubters will be silenced then.

If it were just the lakers spoiling the milk, that'd be fine. But it becomes more and more obvious year after year that it is the Stern and the Stu that spoil the Mavs milk.

[candid_snoop41]

Kobe is not going to be stopped. He will establish himself as the best player (ever?)...

This guy is on another level right now. The C's are not better than the Spurs defensively!

Lakers in 5

[Big Money]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Every good conspiracy theorist knows that if you are not one of us, then you are one of them. And if you deny it, your denial is evidence enough that you might be one of Them.

lol

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by candid_snoop41

Kobe is not going to be stopped. He will establish himself as the best player (ever?)...

This guy is on another level right now. The C's are not better than the Spurs defensively!

Lakers in 5

At this point in his career, Kobe doesn't even sniff Jordan's jockstrap.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by candid_snoop41

Kobe is not going to be stopped. He will establish himself as the best player (ever?)...

Remember when Kobe won the championship 3 times in a row, retired to let the rest of the league win a couple championships, then came back and won 3 more in a row???

Me neither...



Wake me up when Kobe dominates the NBA for an entire decade, then we'll have the "best ever" conversation (at the moment, you could easily debate that LeBron is a better raw player - who was debatably better than Jordan in his time?)

[dude1394]

No doubt...I'd take lebron over kobe anyday.

[alby]

If you look at the longevity of Michael's numbers, Kobe's not there yet.

Jordan
15 seasons of 20+ ppg or 8 seasons of 30+ ppg
plus, 5 regular season MVP's and 6 Finals MVP's makes even the comparison ridiculous, let alone proclaiming Kobe the greatest ever

Kobe
9 seasons of 20+ ppg or 2 seasons of 30+ ppg



Kobe is definitely the most skilled/talented player in the NBA today, come back to me in 7-9 years, then we'll see if he deserves to even be in the discussion for greatest ever.