Nets talk with Mavs about Kidd trade? - Page 10 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SeriousSummer · 01-31-2008, 07:41 PM

People are getting carried away. Frye is Calvin Booth; Outlaw, the best of the lot, is a career back up; and Jarrett Jack doesn't even belong in the league--he should be starring in the Spanish or Italian league.

Altogether they aren't worth half of an aged Jason Kidd.

I don't see why, if the deal is as described, New Jersey wouldn't just want Harris and Bass instead.

SeriousSummer · 01-31-2008, 07:44 PM

One thing I forgot--Portland has a ton of pretty good draft choices coming up in the next two years. The Blazers need to do some many for 1 types of deals--since you can't have more than 15 players under contract. That would explain Portland's motivation.

Bookit · 01-31-2008, 07:52 PM

If Portland wants a point guard so badly why don't they just trade for Kidd without Dallas being involved?

dalmations202 · 01-31-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

People are getting carried away. Frye is Calvin Booth; Outlaw, the best of the lot, is a career back up; and Jarrett Jack doesn't even belong in the league--he should be starring in the Spanish or Italian league.

Altogether they aren't worth half of an aged Jason Kidd.

I don't see why, if the deal is as described, New Jersey wouldn't just want Harris and Bass instead.

I totally disagree with your assessment of these three.

AxdemxO · 01-31-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I totally disagree with your assessment of these three.

So do I and its kinda dumb to be honest.

Outlaw a career back up?? Whts this his second year?? but no one should dsare say that Harris will not be great. Jack is a very good back up pg....and Fry is another young big body that has talent..

FINtastic · 01-31-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I thought Nash didn't have it when he was passing the ball regularly to section 118 but guess what, he did. Harris is actually improving pretty steadily distributing the ball lately. How is anyone deluding themselves? How do YOU know? You can't predict the future so stop saying you somehow "know." Ridiculous.

Edit: Nash turned 25 in february of the 98-99 season. He averaged 7.9 points and 5.5 assists per game. The season after he averaged LESS assists at 4.9 per game and his points raised slightly to 8.6. Don't tell me that you knew he was going to be a 2 time MVP at that point. Harris has gone nowhere but up in both points and assists at a seemingly quicker rate.

This isn't about assist numbers, it's about court vision. And quite frankly, Harris doesn't have it. You don't just suddenly develop it either. We already know that Nash was playing severely injury and confidence issues at that point. He also wasn't playing with a lot of scoring talent around him at that point. Nash was a slow developer, but it was always clear that Nash had court vision and creativity.

Watch Harris play. I like the kid, but it's rare to find him make an amazing pass to a guy way out of the play. He's not great at penetrating and dishing. And when he does do it, it often looks pretty forced, like you could tell he was going into the lane for that purpose. I don't understand why it's outrageous to say the guy lacks the vision of a Jason Kidd. If you really think he is going to average 10 assists a game, you are kidding yourself.

jthig32 · 01-31-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

This isn't about assist numbers, it's about court vision. And quite frankly, Harris doesn't have it. You don't just suddenly develop it either. We already know that Nash was playing severely injury and confidence issues at that point. He also wasn't playing with a lot of scoring talent around him at that point. Nash was a slow developer, but it was always clear that Nash had court vision and creativity.

Watch Harris play. I like the kid, but it's rare to find him make an amazing pass to a guy way out of the play. He's not great at penetrating and dishing. And when he does do it, it often looks pretty forced, like you could tell he was going into the lane for that purpose. I don't understand why it's outrageous to say the guy lacks the vision of a Jason Kidd. If you really think he is going to average 10 assists a game, you are kidding yourself.

I agree with this. However, Kidd's greatest strengths do not match this team. He is at his best with a running team. The Mavs are the complete opposite. He's the best rebounding PG in basketball, mainly defensive boards. The Mavs have no problems in this area.

Kidd is still a good enough player that despite the poor fit skills-wise, he would still make this team better, I think. However, he would not make it enough better to justify the sacrifice of additional players, and the sacrifice of the future.

Devin Harris may not have great court vision, but he's going to be an above average PG in this league for a lot of years, and has a chance to be special.

Windmill360 · 01-31-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Mavs' Johnson On Kidd Rumors: 'We're Fine, We Have A Good Team'

January 31, 2008 - 7:29 pm
Andrew Perna/RealGM -
Avery Johnson tried his hardest to put the clamps on any rumors involving Dallas and newly-available point guard Jason Kidd on Thursday night.

"We are a veteran team, we communicate a lot and we have no issues with what other teams are trying to do to enhance their teams. Our team - we're fine. We have a good ball club," Johnson said before the Mavericks' game against the Celtics in Boston.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...e_a_good_team/

DirkFTW · 01-31-2008, 11:28 PM

Terry, Diop, George, and Stackhouse for Kidd?

Robillion · 01-31-2008, 11:38 PM

I just wish this trade never came up. Its gonna mess with some teams mentally and its only likely going to hurt us in the long run no matter what kind of deal we put together (unless its a real steal..like KVH contract and throw in Ager

)... but with this out there and the threat of Kidd going to another Western Conference team.. it's a devil's temptation. A temptation I hope we can endure.

If Kidd really wants to end his career in Dallas then he can go to whereever he wants this year... then when his contract expires ina couple years he comes to Dallas without us giving up anyone. I want to win a championship this year with this squad and I think it can be done.. and if it comes down to another 2 years of disappointments then guess what.. we can get Kidd for nothing and use people on our team THEN to get ANOTHER star. Patience is a virtue in this case.

ddh33 · 02-01-2008, 12:16 AM

I think the team should go get him, if they can. I don't think they should deal Devin, Josh, or Dirk to do it.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

This isn't about assist numbers, it's about court vision. And quite frankly, Harris doesn't have it. You don't just suddenly develop it either. We already know that Nash was playing severely injury and confidence issues at that point. He also wasn't playing with a lot of scoring talent around him at that point. Nash was a slow developer, but it was always clear that Nash had court vision and creativity.

Watch Harris play. I like the kid, but it's rare to find him make an amazing pass to a guy way out of the play. He's not great at penetrating and dishing. And when he does do it, it often looks pretty forced, like you could tell he was going into the lane for that purpose. I don't understand why it's outrageous to say the guy lacks the vision of a Jason Kidd. If you really think he is going to average 10 assists a game, you are kidding yourself.

Um I watch Harris play every game I'm not sure you watch the games at all to be frank. There is no way that it was always clear that Nash had the court vision and creativity. You did NOT watch the team back then if that is honestly what you thought. I'm not saying Harris will average 10 assists a game but an 18 ppg 7-8 assists, 1.5 steal pg isn't out of the question. That would be good enough to be as good as or even better than someone like Tony Parker. Pass first pgs haven't won the championship in recent memory. People just don't like Harris's demeanor, I can tell. Tough. The kid can play.

FINtastic · 02-01-2008, 03:30 AM

You're kind of misconstruing my argument here. I never said Devin couldn't be an 18 and 7 guy. In fact, I think it's pretty likely that he puts up a few years like that sometime in the prime of his career. 8 assists gets a lot more iffy, but I guess it might be possible. But the first person I replied to was trying to claim that Devin either has or could possibly have passing ability on-par with Kidd. And that's just not true. Kidd came into the league a gifted passer, dropping about 8 dimes a game as a rookie. Devin on the other hand did not, and is nowhere near putting up Kidd's rookie assist numbers yet. For all I know, he may never reach that mark, let alone the 10 assist mark.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

You're kind of misconstruing my argument here. I never said Devin couldn't be an 18 and 7 guy. In fact, I think it's pretty likely that he puts up a few years like that sometime in the prime of his career. 8 assists gets a lot more iffy, but I guess it might be possible. But the first person I replied to was trying to claim that Devin either has or could possibly have passing ability on-par with Kidd. And that's just not true. Kidd came into the league a gifted passer, dropping about 8 dimes a game as a rookie. Devin on the other hand did not, and is nowhere near putting up Kidd's rookie assist numbers yet. For all I know, he may never reach that mark, let alone the 10 assist mark.

I'm just defensive at the delusional part mainly. Comparing Harris to any point guard is a diservice I think. Harris has many talents that a lot of guards don't have. I'm just tired of reading that Harris isn't Chris Paul, Steve Nash or Deron Williams. Harris just needs to be the best that he can be with his given talents and not worry about becoming anyone else.

Dr.Zoidberg · 02-01-2008, 05:39 AM

12:58 AM CST on Friday, February 1, 2008
Dallas Mavericks coach squelches Jason Kidd trade rumors

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

BOSTON – Jerry Stackhouse has a motto when it comes to life in the NBA.

"The checks cash in all 50 states," he said Thursday. "That's all you need to worry about. If you get somewhere where the checks don't cash, then you got an issue. But up until then, they're going to cash."

His point is that trade rumors come with the territory, even when your coach is shooting them down in no uncertain terms.

The Jason Kidd talk of the last few days has swamped the Mavericks, but Avery Johnson has no intentions of letting it dominate their thoughts. He shot down the rumored deal with the strongest commentary on it yet.

"We're not involved," he said flatly. "Anybody has a right to throw out names. That's a part of speculating. But we're not involved. That's all I can tell them. We like our team, and we're moving forward with our team."

The Mavericks have been rumored as a possible destination for Kidd, but all of those bits of speculation have been downplayed since they made the rounds. Kidd was drafted originally by the Mavericks and has asked to be traded by the New Jersey Nets.

The Mavericks and Nets have talked, but no deal was even remotely close to happening.

Johnson reiterated that the Mavericks believe this team as constructed is capable of winning the championship.

"We feel when we have our 10-man rotation, we feel we can be pretty good," he said. "We know there are a lot more teams favored to win it than we are this year. But we like our team."

Asked again if there was interest in Kidd, Johnson said: "We like our team."
The players have heard about the rumors, but they know it is part of the business.

"It doesn't bother me, but you think about it," said DeSagana Diop. "I wouldn't lie about that. But I don't let it bother me. Just be a pro and do your job."

Link

DelNegro · 02-01-2008, 09:22 AM

I was sure Avery was going to come out and say "we can't win with this group, our only hope is getting Jason Kidd and Devin Harris better start looking for a good real estate agent".

Boy was I wrong............

Dr.Zoidberg · 02-01-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

NO KIDDIN' AROUND
By PETER VECSEY

February 1, 2008 -- AS widely reported, the Mavericks are the most interested Jason Kidd suitor. The reverse is true, as well. Aside from Dallas being a legitimate championship contender as currently comprised (a prerequisite), a source close to agent Jeff Schwartz claims Mark Cuban would be willing to give Kidd the one-year, $20 million extension (for 2009-2010) he was unable to get from the Nets.

At the same time, trade talk between the two teams has been brief. "Some ideas have been exchanged," according to someone in the know, "but nothing is close."

Not with Dallas. Not with any team.

"They want what we don't want to give up," reports a Mavericks hall monitor.

That's true at the outset of every trade negotiation, of course. If a team wants a player or wants to get rid of a player badly enough, the compromising part comes later. In this case, it could turn out to be sooner.

Except for one fundamental problem that may prove insurmountable.

"We don't have any huge bad contracts to give up," the Dallas source explained. "So it's going to take six players just to equal Kidd's ($19,728 million) salary. "We can't give up half our roster to do a deal and they can't free up enough roster slots."

The Nets are attempting to include a third team. The Blazers already rebuffed a couple scenarios that made no sense to them or the Mavs, only to New Jersey. Should a third team materialize and it's agreeable to doing something that's fair for all sides, "it's still hard," the Dallas source underlined.

Unfair deals are much easier to make and there tend to be many more of 'em. You don't need a source to know the Nets have plenty of that variety on their wobbly table.

In these types of troubled situations (Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ron Artest, Shaquille O'Neal and on and on), where players make trade demands and it gets out in public - thus depreciating their value and damaging trade leverage - there is never a shortage of teams looking to commandeer an asset.

Logic dictates the Nets' best course of action is to hold tight and pray that two or more title contenders, preferably in the same conference, conclude that the addition of Kidd will put 'em over the top.

"You don't want to make a bad deal," a Nets source stressed.

Meanwhile, the Feb. 21 trade deadline is but three weeks away.

I believe bad offers are the best the Nets are going to get. I believe they're better off without their ingrate point guard. He's a lousy leader. He's an offensive liability. He has contaminated the team. He's making costly mistakes at the end of games. And he's owed $21.3M next season.

"People are blinded by his triple doubles," said a respected member of the Nets franchise. "They fail to see he has become a high-priced role player." In other words, the Nets should take what they can get while they can get it, as long as they don't have to take back compost contracts. Then they should fumigate their arena.

Link

Cuban ejects the bait for Kidd.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 11:03 AM

I thought we had the KVH contract to give up? Or is this the bait you metion Zoidberg? Diop's quote really bothers me. You know that all of the players keep up to date with stuff like this. Call me crazy but I'm sure it had some effect on the Boston game. Especially with Diop saying that he was thinking about it. Either make a trade or move on...

ShaggyDirk · 02-01-2008, 11:07 AM

a hall monitor?

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

a hall monitor?

Players get demerits if they are caught wandering the halls without passes lol.

Dr.Zoidberg · 02-01-2008, 11:53 AM

This was the first article I read about Cuban definitely being interested in Kidd and willing to pay him his extension. But I don´t understand either, why Dallas doesn´t have any big contracts (KVH) to give up?

If the Nets are not able to get a very good player in return (Kidd for one player with a huge contract and some filler they would release) and as they have no roster spots to compensate many players in return, without involving a third team, at least a big KVH contract could be a nice trade asset for them. Assumed the Nets really want to get rid of Kidd.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 12:29 PM

What about a Jet/Stackhouse/Diop/Barea combo? That is a good combo of old and new. I can't imagine New Jersey getting a better deal than that. It's a lot to give up but for Jason Kidd...I'd do it.

Kidd/Harris
Harris/Jones/Hassell
Howard/Hassell/George
Dirk/Bass/Juwan
Damp/Bass/Juwan

Just checked it and that trade works straight up. New Jersey would have to waive some players to make roster spots though.

Dr.Zoidberg · 02-01-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

New Jersey would have to waive some players to make roster spots though.

And that is the big problem for them, I think. Maybe we can profit from that.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-01-2008, 01:17 PM

The Kidd trade is doable without Harris involved. Do the Mavs pull the trigger though? Jet/Diop/Stack/Barea is as good as New Jersey will get. However, would the Mavs do it? Why not? We have the depth. This would be a fair trade. You are not going to get Kidd for garbage.

Underdog · 02-01-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What about a Jet/Stackhouse/Diop/Barea combo? That is a good combo of old and new. I can't imagine New Jersey getting a better deal than that. It's a lot to give up but for Jason Kidd...I'd do it.

Kidd/Harris
Harris/Jones/Hassell
Howard/Hassell/George
Dirk/Bass/Juwan
Damp/Bass/Juwan

Just checked it and that trade works straight up. New Jersey would have to waive some players to make roster spots though.

I'd still like to get a big back if we're parting with Diop...

Who plays center if/when Damp gets hurt again? I don't like when Bass moves Dirk over to the 5 - going small at center only works in certain matchups (as the short-handed Celtics just proved on the boards)... So, Juwan Howard starts in this scenario? No thanks...

dude1394 · 02-01-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd still like to get a big back if we're parting with Diop...

Who plays center if/when Damp gets hurt again? I don't like when Bass moves Dirk over to the 5 - going small at center only works in certain matchups (as the short-handed Celtics just proved on the boards)... So, Juwan Howard starts in this scenario? No thanks...

Might as well trade diop, he can't get off the bench anyway.

Underdog · 02-01-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Might as well trade diop, he can't get off the bench anyway.

That doesn't change the fact that if/when Damp gets injured we'd have to use Juwan Howard when we go big...

dude1394 · 02-01-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That doesn't change the fact that if/when Damp gets injured we'd have to use Juwan Howard when we go big...

If you can't get off the bench, you can't get off the bench. When we will NOT do a trade for someone who is probably averaging less than 10mpg for someone who we feel is a missing key to a championship, we have really fallen in love with our own players.

Underdog · 02-01-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you can't get off the bench, you can't get off the bench. When we will NOT do a trade for someone who is probably averaging less than 10mpg for someone who we feel is a missing key to a championship, we have really fallen in love with our own players.

But we still need a big if/when Damp goes down...

I don't care if it's Diop, I just don't want it to be JuHerp...

DirkFTW · 02-01-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

a hall monitor?

I think it's a Vescey thing...

Quote:

LA HAS PLAN AT READY FOR KIDDNAPPING NET
By PETER VECSEY

December 23, 2007 -- THE Lakers are angling to shoplift Jason Kidd, a Western hearing aide claims, for a couple draft picks, Kwame Brown's expiring contract ($9M), Jordan Farmar ($1M) and Vladimir Radmanovic ($5.6M with an additional $19.2M over the next three seasons). Not unexpectedly, the Nets aren't interested in assuming Radmanovic's long-term guarantee. There's nothing not to love about Farmar, yet New Jersey already has a promising, young caretaker in Marcus Williams.

Another time-tested source believes the Cavaliers (Drew Gooden) and Mavericks (Erick Dampier) are in better position to provide the Nets with frontcourt help, but neither team nor the Lakers can offer more than the Nuggets - an almost-rehabbed Nene or Marcus Camby vs. Kenyon Martin. According to my hall monitor, coach George Karl urgently wants Kidd to free Allen Iverson to concentrate exclusively on scoring. Aside from one of the two aforementioned big men, Denver is prepared to kick in Linas Kleiza and JR Smith. Over the past year or so the Lakers have had designs on three players we know about - Kidd, Kevin Garnett (prior to being beat out by Boston) and Jermaine O'Neal. If Jackson's juggernaut is unable to pry loose Kidd, you would think the focus would be back on the Pacers' forward/center who definitely can be had, and it's not as if Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird are asking for anything outlandish.

Link

I think it's his way of sounding official without needing to be. He could be talking to the janitor.

Dirkenstien · 02-01-2008, 04:49 PM

We have to do something now.

horse900703 · 02-01-2008, 04:52 PM

this is NOT going to happen anymore

FINtastic · 02-01-2008, 04:53 PM

Kinda funny that the Vescey article basically described the trade that went down today, only the Lakers I guess were trying to make it work with New Jersey first.

Dirkenstien · 02-01-2008, 04:54 PM

I just don't want to see Kidd in LA for Odom. That woyld be scary.

horse900703 · 02-01-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I just don't want to see Kidd in LA for Odom. That woyld be scary.

J kidd and Kobe?

Dirkenstien · 02-01-2008, 05:08 PM

Derek Fisher and Lamar Odom works for Kidd

Lakers Lineup:

Bynum / Turiaf / Mihm
Gasol / Radmonovic / Mihm
Walton / Ariza
Kobe / Vujacic
Kidd / Farmar

Geese. I really hope this doesn't happen.

MFFL · 02-01-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Derek Fisher and Lamar Odom works for Kidd.

Fisher was released from his Utah contract because of a severe illness to his daughter. The daughter's doctor is in LA. So the Lakers aren't going to trade him (except maybe to the Clippers)

Underdog · 02-01-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Geese. I really hope this doesn't happen.

You talkin' to us???

wmbwinn · 02-01-2008, 06:41 PM

"As momentum for a blockbuster three-team trade centering on Jason Kidd slowed down on Thursday, the New Jersey Nets are close to finalizing an agreement to trade Jason Collins to the Memphis Grizzlies for Stromile Swift, a league source said Thursday night.

“I think everyone is getting cold feet,” one league source with knowledge of the negotiations among New Jersey, Dallas and Portland said. “Dallas doesn’t want to part with (Devin) Harris, and (Nets president) Rod (Thorn) doesn’t think that (Travis) Outlaw is enough as a centerpiece to give up a franchise player in Kidd.”

The Nets, Mavericks and Trail Blazers have been engaged in discussions for a multi-player trade that would land Kidd, the nine-time All-Star, back in Dallas where his NBA career started in 1994. The Mavericks would send point guard Devin Harris, 24, to the Blazers, and Jerry Stackhouse and either Devean George or DeSagna Diop to the Nets. Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack and Channing Frye, along with a No. 1 pick, would go to New Jersey. As many as a dozen players could change teams.

Sources expect the conversations between New Jersey and Dallas to continue until the Feb. 21 trade deadline, whether Portland is the third team involved or as others become involved. "

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

wmbwinn · 02-01-2008, 06:43 PM

"The Jason Kidd talk of the last few days has swamped the Dallas Mavericks, but coach Avery Johnson has no intentions of letting it dominate their thoughts. He shot down the rumored deal with the strongest commentary on it yet according to a report in the Dallas Morning News.

"We're not involved," he said flatly. "Anybody has a right to throw out names. That's a part of speculating. But we're not involved. That's all I can tell them. We like our team, and we're moving forward with our team."

The Mavericks have been rumored as a possible destination for Kidd, but all of those bits of speculation have been downplayed since they made the rounds. Kidd was drafted originally by the Mavericks and has asked to be traded by the New Jersey Nets. The Mavericks and Nets have talked, but no deal was even remotely close to happening."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/p...?urn=nba,64765