Donaghy Admits to 2 Refs Fixing a Playoff Series

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by RonMexico

Cuban can blow my Holy Roman candle.

How's your ass (literally) holding up in prison?

[RonMexico]

Better than your Mavs.

[BGMaverick9]

I'm not really sure that's something to be proud of...

[RonMexico]

Hey could you read a message I never had the time to answer on these boards from 07'? It'd accomplish more than anything the Mavs will.

War Josh Howard for Shane Battier!

--------------
Hi,
I'm new here, how's it going?

"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things as a meaningful unity" - Albert Einstein

---
einstein
http://stein.freehostia.com

[ty]

huh

[Underdog]

wat

[RonMexico]

Misleading thread title. It should be "Donaghy admits to Fixing Mavs-Rox and Lakers-Kings series".

Power to the people!

[ty]

I swear...there's something in the water in Houston.

[RonMexico]

Yeah it beasted Hakeem to two rings. Maybe we should export some of that mid-nineties juice to Dirk and J-Hoe?

[ty]

Are you angry at the world?...or are you just 13.

[RonMexico]

Nah I'm like Josh Howard. Bored at work.

[ty]

...Bored with clutchfans.net too? I would be also to tell you the truth.

Thank God for a quality forum at DM.

[roxgirl]

I'm so disillusioned with the NBA. Our '05 team had real potential.

[RonMexico]

The 05' team was probably my favorite team to watch since the end of the Dream era. Ah, well good times.

[Usually Lurkin]

as long as the illegal screens weren't getting called . . .

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by ty

...Bored with clutchfans.net too? I would be also to tell you the truth.

Thank God for a quality forum at DM.

This, I think, is the crux of the matter.

I always ask myself, why on earth are all these rocket fans here?

They all say it's "because I want to hear other opinions from fans of different teams" when all they do is pretty much just spread their own agenda, which of course differs from ours (how could it not?) and generally troll around, and only pop their head up when there's something news worthy that doesn't cast them in a bad light. They don't listen to reason, and they actually couldn't possibly care any less about what we have to say.

Invariably it all comes back to the same explanations...either they're so insecure about what a bunch of people in another city (that they've never even met) may or may not be saying about their favorite basketball team (get a life), or, our forum is just better than theirs.

(if only we had a doctoral candidate and some grad students to do a study on this phenomena...)

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

(if only we had a doctoral candidate and some grad students to do a study on this phenomena...)

Speaking of that, did that dang thing ever get published? I want to see if I'm in it!

[dude1394]

From stein...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...hyStern-080611

This is the only sports league in America in which it's a routine reaction by folks on the inside as well as the outside to respond to bitter defeat with charges of biased refereeing or outright game-rigging. It's a massive problem magnified by the fact that no one I've encountered in 15 years of covering the league is overflowing with suggestions for how to stop such perceptions from mushrooming any further, let alone for how to put a halt to them.

He couldn't be more on-target. It's a ritual that after you've gotten the wrong end of the reffing, that you go on tv and tell the refs how bad it was. And usually it gets fixed, it really does.

I don't recall if Avery was smart enough to actually openly talk about the ref reeming that the mavs got, I seem to remember him jumping on a reporter instead and being cute. Phil Jackzen wisely just said it and he got better reffing.

Another one from this stein..

As my ESPN colleague Michael Wilbon recently wrote in The Washington Post: "The larger point here is that nobody has ever known what is and what isn't a foul in professional basketball. … It's as subjective as anything in sports, calling a foul. You can't get a consensus from people who've been in and around the game for 100 years."

Lord have mercy isn't that the truth. I'm sitting at the areana with my buddy and other folks who've come in for a casual first time game. They turn to me a complete stranger and say..."what, what was that". I have to just shrug and say, I don't know, I truly don't . I can see it on the replay 10 times and I still dont' know, OBVIOUSLY the ref didn't SEE that either because it didn't happen, but he imagined it. I shrug my shoulders and go on.

I'm starting to feel like a chump.

[dude1394]

It looks like stern shot himself in his amble backside on this one. Donaghy was willing to play ball and take his medicine until stern decides he wanted to get 1million from him for investigating the charges internally. One million!! Stern's definitely a lawyer, charging those fees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=3436503

Donaghy pleaded guilty to two felony charges this past summer, admitting he was guilty of gambling violations and money laundering. Everything seemed to have settled down, with Donaghy cooperating with federal investigators and awaiting his sentence. What prompted these developments in the middle of the NBA Finals?

Donaghy's sentencing is scheduled for July 14. He faces a maximum of 25 years in prison for conspiracy to engage in wire fraud and transmitting betting information through interstate commerce. In the usual course of presentence investigations and procedures, the federal probation department asks the "victim" about the damage resulting from the crime. As a "victim" of Donaghy's crimes, the NBA claimed in a June 5 letter that it was entitled to $1 million in restitution from Donaghy. Restitution, or the reimbursement of the victim's losses, typically pays back a bank or a charity for money lost in an embezzlement or a theft. Donaghy obviously damaged the NBA and its reputation, but there is no indication he stole any money from the league. The NBA claimed that it was forced to spend the nice round sum of $1 million investigating Donaghy and the damage he caused, and the league wants its money back. Clearly enraged by the unexpected demand from the NBA for $1 million, Donaghy and Lauro retaliated with detailed accusations of manipulation by other referees. It is the worst nightmare for the NBA, which might be considering a withdrawal of its demand for restitution.

[dude1394]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ge=hill/080611

"Why would I be worried?" Stern said when he met with the media before Game 3.

Damn...is stern actually the littlest colonel???

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't recall if Avery was smart enough to actually openly talk about the ref reeming that the mavs got, I seem to remember him jumping on a reporter instead and being cute. Phil Jackzen wisely just said it and he got better reffing.

Avery didn't say anything, but Mark Cuban sure as hell did (but who was listening to him at that point?)

[RonMexico]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

This, I think, is the crux of the matter.

I always ask myself, why on earth are all these rocket fans here?

They all say it's "because I want to hear other opinions from fans of different teams" when all they do is pretty much just spread their own agenda, which of course differs from ours (how could it not?) and generally troll around, and only pop their head up when there's something news worthy that doesn't cast them in a bad light. They don't listen to reason, and they actually couldn't possibly care any less about what we have to say.

Invariably it all comes back to the same explanations...either they're so insecure about what a bunch of people in another city (that they've never even met) may or may not be saying about their favorite basketball team (get a life), or, our forum is just better than theirs.

(if only we had a doctoral candidate and some grad students to do a study on this phenomena...)

Actually I see it more as a challenge. At clutchfans the choir is blaring. Well hey I'd love to pick up my megaphone and sing the same but here I get challenged which is more enjoyable to me because I know you're going to have differing opinions and thats what's fun. And I'm not here trying to on the forum because I think it rocks and seeing as I haven't been banned that shows just how epic it is.

However, many of you here believe that David Stern hates your club and have thoughts of a fix. I don't see why you couldn't see how the manipulation of overly focusing on one player couldn't hurt a team. Cause they weren't just calling illegal screens they were calling other such nincomsh*t bs on Yao particularly in game 5 if I recollect correctly.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by RonMexico

I don't see why you couldn't see how the manipulation of overly focusing on one player couldn't hurt a team.

it would. And poor Yao Ming had to actually try to play a few games without fouling - unlike most superstars in the league. But it shouldn't be ok to not whistle fouls for the moving screens. The real problem is that the league is stuck in a place where they are reffing any given game in a manner that is biased toward one team or another instead of being fair. If Cuban hadn't opened his mouth, then the series would have continued to be reffed in a manner that was biased against the Mavs. It should not boil down to a choice of which team to target with unfair officiating.

This same thing happens in every Popovich coached series and every Jackzen coached series. There is crappy officiating that goes against their team, then they openly complain, then the crappy officiating suddenly goes for their team. The real problem isn't that their big mouth directed the crappy officiating, it's that the league is set up to have crappy officiating directed toward one team or another in the first place. Why it's been allowed to go on for so long, and why it's been allowed to grow to the state it's in now is the big mystery, and is why D. Stern should be fired, if not thrown in jail.

[ty]

Who can fire David Stern?

[RonMexico]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

it would. And poor Yao Ming had to actually try to play a few games without fouling - unlike most superstars in the league. But it shouldn't be ok to not whistle fouls for the moving screens. The real problem is that the league is stuck in a place where they are reffing any given game in a manner that is biased toward one team or another instead of being fair. If Cuban hadn't opened his mouth, then the series would have continued to be reffed in a manner that was biased against the Mavs. It should not boil down to a choice of which team to target with unfair officiating.

This same thing happens in every Popovich coached series and every Jackzen coached series. There is crappy officiating that goes against their team, then they openly complain, then the crappy officiating suddenly goes for their team. The real problem isn't that their big mouth directed the crappy officiating, it's that the league is set up to have crappy officiating directed toward one team or another in the first place. Why it's been allowed to go on for so long, and why it's been allowed to grow to the state it's in now is the big mystery, and is why D. Stern should be fired, if not thrown in jail.

The point I'm trying to make is the focus on Yao not only set him back as far as the illegal screen calls but in other circumstances too. They just called everything that could be called on him. Cause of course the refs are already watching Y. Ming with the predetermined whistle ready to blow but they're going to blow the whistle against him more often than not now. Either way there shouldn't be an agenda against a player no matter what you feel they do. If you feel the ref's were bias against the Mavs then I don't see how you couldn't see it from my viewpoint that they became bias against us eventually.

[Underdog]

If we ignore it, will it go away?


("it" refers to the clutchfan, not the scandal...)

[RonMexico]

Hey I'd rather be sitting in a hotel suite on the beach of South Padre Island with a piña colada than posting here but alas I'm working. We all suffer together. >=)

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by RonMexico

The point I'm trying to make is the focus on Yao not only set him back as far as the illegal screen calls but in other circumstances too. They just called everything that could be called on him. Cause of course the refs are already watching Y. Ming with the predetermined whistle ready to blow but they're going to blow the whistle against him more often than not now. Either way there shouldn't be an agenda against a player no matter what you feel they do. If you feel the ref's were bias against the Mavs then I don't see how you couldn't see it from my viewpoint that they became bias against us eventually.

Of course some of us see your point. Yao should get superstar treatment, just like TMAC and we think Dirk should get superstar treatment. Actually we see someone get superstar treatment on another team, and we think our guy should get that treatment as well. This is why superstar treatment doesn't work.

It has worked for years though in the NBA. Michael Jordan could do no wrong at times, even when he traveled, pushed off, etc. Akeem's Dream Shake was very often a three step move, but traveling was never called. Moses Malone moved bodies often. Shaq dislodged, but is no longer getting the calls. DFake and Manu can teach class on flopping. Bowen consistently grabs, pushes, etc that no one else could get away with, but instead of getting called for it, gets defensive player of the year awards for it.

Everyone is starting to see the NBA for what it is though.......entertainment. If it were truly the best basketball played in the world, we would still be dominating around the world. It isn't true competitive basketball anymore though. Shoe Companies/Owners/Coaches/Teams/Officials/and some players influences games. Corporate sponsors do not want their "investments" sitting on the sidelines fouled out of games - when the game is on the line. IMO, officials are trained to try and keep a game competitive even when the game isn't close. I have watched 30+ years of NBA basketball, and can often tell you when a team will make a run based on what the officials are calling. If a team is down 14-16 in the third, and player X has been to the line 10 times in the first half, all they do is call an offensive instead of defensive foul on player X when he tries to drive, and then call a foul on the other end, getting the team that much closer. Next time down it is a three second call, and then a foul on a player off the ball, and all of a sudden that 12 pt lead is 6 or less, and both teams are competitive again.

Why again did LBJ beat that Detroit team last year?
Why did the Wade team beat the Mavs?
Why was it Kobe/Shaq instead of Sacramento?

IMO, Detroit is the one that has probably been shafted the worst out of the last 5 years. Of course if Kobe wouldn't have had his problem in Col. (and give a black eye to the NBA), then IMO Detroit doesn't win the championship that year either.

Whether conspiracy people are right or wrong, their is no denying that games are influenced. Now as to whether the influence caused one team to win or lose, or to move points, or to keep a player in/out of the game..........each individual will have to come to their own conclusion on that one.

[RonMexico]

True. What sucks most is official's calls seem so subjective that it's really difficult to tell sometimes what is going on. The worst thing is the culpability which unfortunately there is none. Refs should be interviewed after games. That would be a start to reconciliation.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by RonMexico

They just called everything that could be called on him. .

This should be the goal for every player.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I have watched 30+ years of NBA basketball, and can often tell you when a team will make a run based on what the officials are calling. If a team is down 14-16 in the third, and player X has been to the line 10 times in the first half, all they do is call an offensive instead of defensive foul on player X when he tries to drive, and then call a foul on the other end, getting the team that much closer. Next time down it is a three second call, and then a foul on a player off the ball, and all of a sudden that 12 pt lead is 6 or less, and both teams are competitive again.

Memories of a dozen or so games just flashed through my mind at the same time...

[Underdog]

Stern Unconcerned About F.B.I. Inquiries of Bavetta

link


LOS ANGELES — Commissioner David Stern restated his unwavering support for his referees on Thursday and said he was not concerned that at least one referee, Dick Bavetta, had been the subject of inquiries by federal agents.

Hue Hollins, a retired referee, told The New York Times on Wednesday that two agents from New York visited him last summer and asked about Bavetta and Tim Donaghy, the disgraced referee who has admitted to working with gamblers.

Stern said the league was aware that Donaghy — who is cooperating with the authorities while he awaits sentencing — had mentioned Bavetta to federal investigators.

“We knew that something had been said by Mr. Donaghy and that the F.B.I. was investigating a variety of claims,” Stern said during an hastily arranged news conference before Game 4. He added, “But guilt by association is not something that we engage in, and so we just allowed all those interviews to be done.”

It is not clear what the F.B.I. hoped to learn about Bavetta, a veteran referee of more than 30 years. Hollins said he was asked if he ever noticed that Bavetta “was making sure that the home team would win.”

Asked if he had any concerns about Bavetta, Stern said simply, “No.”

The league has not made Bavetta available for comment, and efforts to reach him were unsuccessful. Referees are generally prohibited from speaking to the news media.

According to a former federal prosecutor, the mere fact that agents asked about Bavetta did not necessarily mean he was under investigation.

“It would be unfair to reach a conclusion that the F.B.I. and the U.S. Attorney’s office are pursuing what they believe to be a possible indictment,” said Ed McDonald, a former prosecutor in New York.

On Thursday, Carol Bagley Amon, the federal judge in the Donaghy case, agreed to give the N.B.A. until June 17 to respond to Donaghy’s request to subpoena records relating to an internal investigation conducted by the league last year. Oral arguments on the issue are scheduled June 26.

Donaghy has been working with investigators since turning himself in last July. In court filings, federal prosecutors have credited Donaghy with providing valuable information about the gambling scheme in which he participated. He also has described potential misdeeds by other referees, which presumably led to the F.B.I.’s inquiries about Bavetta.

“The responsible thing for the F.B.I. to do is to follow up on the information and gather more information and determine whether any criminal violations have been committed,” said McDonald, who is now in private practice with Dechert LLP in New York.

Bavetta was part of the crew that officiated a disputed 2002 playoff game between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Sacramento Kings. Donaghy has pointed to that game — in which the Lakers shot 27 free throws in the fourth quarter — as evidence that referees have manipulated the outcomes of games.

The other two members of that crew — Bob Delaney and Ted Bernhardt — have denied any wrongdoing in separate interviews with ESPN. Bernhardt, who is no longer with the league, told the network Thursday that he “wasn’t happy about” the way the game was called.

“But I stand by my calls in that game,” Bernhardt said. “I was right on. I believe in Dick Bavetta, and I believe in Bob Delaney, and I believe in the N.B.A., for that matter.”

[Dirkadirkastan]

I thought the troll had two red boxes? What the hell just happened?

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I thought the troll had two red boxes? What the hell just happened?

I gave him pos. rep.

Sorry he may be troll, but he has made some valid points and is at least attempting to follow forum rules, more than can be said for some mavs fans on this site.

And I think this is a subject that goes beyond team loyalty.

And who knows maybe he is another Big Shot Rob in the making?

[Usually Lurkin]

41 percent of casual and avid fans thought that the nba is rigged. This poll was before the recent Donaghy allegations, also.

http://adage.com/article?article_id=127759

Published: June 13, 2008
NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- David Stern, you have an image problem.

According to a new survey of 907 people released exclusively to Ad Age today, more than one-third (37%) of respondents believe that the National Basketball Association somewhat or very likely alters the outcomes of its games.
Even prior to disgraced referee Tim Donaghy's allegations earlier this week that NBA executives and referees manipulated game results to boost ticket sales and TV ratings, more than one-third of respondents believe that the NBA somewhat or very likely alters the outcomes of its games.
Even prior to disgraced referee Tim Donaghy's allegations earlier this week that NBA executives and referees manipulated game results to boost ticket sales and TV ratings, more than one-third of respondents believe that the NBA somewhat or very likely alters the outcomes of its games.
Photo Credit: AP


The YouGovPolimetrix Omnibus Poll found that among "casual" or "avid" fans, an even higher number, 41%, think it's either very likely or somewhat likely that the NBA alters the outcome of games. Couple that with the fact that only 46% of the poll was aware that an NBA referee was recently investigated by the FBI for receiving cash payments in return for passing inside information along to friends and gamblers, and it's clear the NBA has a lot of cynicism to overcome.

Poll preceded Donaghy scandal
That's especially true when taken together with the fact that the study was conducted on June 2-4, prior to disgraced referee Tim Donaghy's allegations earlier this week that NBA executives and referees manipulated game results to boost ticket sales and TV ratings.

Even so, more than half (55%) of the general respondents and 47% of "avid" basketball fans, when asked if the relationships between officials and players/coaches affect the outcomes of games, responded "yes" or "lean towards thinking yes."

News of Mr. Donaghy's allegations this week generated a ton of bad press in the papers, on sports talk radio and on TV shows like ESPN's SportsCenter and "Pardon the Interruption." And during Game Three of the NBA Finals, ABC, which is airing the games, spent nearly the entire halftime show talking about Mr. Donaghy's claims.

Coincidentally, more than a quarter (26%) of the general population thinks the NBA played a role in the Lakers and Celtics reaching this year's NBA Finals. Twenty-nine percent of all NBA Fans said the NBA had some role in the Lakers and Celtics reuniting in the finals for the first time in 21 years, while 47% of fans think the NBA either had some role in the championship match-up, or are unsure if the league played a role in the match-up.

Stern tarnished
It has long been thought that NBA Commissioner David Stern, in comparison to the commissioners of the other three majors, has best understood the benefits of good PR and developing a global positive brand image. Mr. Stern dismissed Mr. Donaghy's allegations as baseless.
David Stern
David Stern
Photo Credit: Darryl Estrine


Ted Marzilli, senior VP-general manager of the brand group at YouGovPolimetrix, said that regardless of whether or not Mr. Donaghy was the only dirty official in the league, there's a perception issue and the NBA has to admit that.

"Even if you don't believe he is the most credible person, he is admitting to some wrongdoing and suggesting there's a culture where this sort of behavior can take place," Mr. Marzilli said. "So even if there's not truth to everything he is saying, I think enough people would probably say there's enough there to lend some suspicion that some of what he is saying might be true."

"The NBA has to take some action by implementing some rules and be visible about it," he added. "Acknowledge there is the perception of an issue, that there may actually be an issue and that you are going to do everything you can to ensure there is a trust between fans and the NBA."

The NBA didn't respond before press time.

[horse900703]

wanna kill him!!!!

[RonMexico]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I gave him pos. rep.

Sorry he may be troll, but he has made some valid points and is at least attempting to follow forum rules, more than can be said for some mavs fans on this site.

And I think this is a subject that goes beyond team loyalty.

And who knows maybe he is another Big Shot Rob in the making?

Thanks paht-nuh. I think the Mavs have suffered as much if not more than the Rockets because of this (*cough*alleged*sneeze) bullsheet I just wanted folks to admit that whether one person is a victim of theft and one is a victim of rape well we're all victims.

Excuse my assertiveness.

[12 Tone Melodies]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381842,00.html

Breaking News: more info about Tim Donaghy
NEW YORK — NBA referee Tim Donaghy made repeated phone calls to a second referee (Scott Foster) at the same time he provided inside information to professional gamblers during the course of the 2006-2007 season, according to court documents and phone records obtained by FOXNews.com.

[dalmations202]

Stern will keep sweeping, and stuff will keep leaking..............LOL

[DirkFTW]