Mav Starting Line

[canadianpolak]

I am really upset with what is happening. In the last 13 games, the Mavericks did not even try to put Antawn into the starting line up. Why not try C- Dirk, PF- Antawn, SF- Walker, SG- Fin, and PG- Nash. Theyre doing ok, 9-4, 2nd in the west, but they could be doing much better. Id rather have them find their footing with Antawn in the starting line up than have them try to find it in a less efficent way when he comes off the bench. Last night vs. Denver, they started Najera at C, who is smaller than Antawn, and not as good as a rebounder even. It's just too bad that they havent even tried it, for sure it could be argued against that Antawn should not start, but they should give it a shot. They have a new team this year, and they are planning in a really traditional fashion. Now what's up with them trying to get old man Davis from Toronto, CUBAN WAKE THE HELL UP, youre slipping since the trade buddy, your space man uniform SUCKED, your starting line up plus your line ups during the game need more revision and experimentation, and you're gonna make a deal that would really cost you, long-term and short. PEOPLE, i need your thoughts, why is there this trade rumor? How would Dallas benefit from getting Davis and losing Antawn and Delk....should Antawn be included in the starting line up? Lvubun1, great work with finding the link
http://www.82games.com, it supports for the Fab 5 starting line up
eg.
Unit
Nash-Finley-Jamison-Walker-Nowitzki
Min
8.38%
Off
122.9
Def
79.8
Net
43.1
W
8
L
1
Win%
88.8
eFG
559
eFGA
.351
FTA
+0.9
Close
33%
dClose
33%
Reb
93%
T/O
+5%

Look at it in relativity to the other line ups, WAY better.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

I am agianst any line up that has Dirk playing the 5 for more than 10 -12 minutes per game. Let the Stick man & the Potato get most of the minutes there & keep Jamison on the benh. Nellie is not starting Jamison because he wants him to be fully acclimated to his sixth man role. As for the Davis trade, I say hell no! Just wait until next off season & try to land a guy like Foyle or Tag & lets role.

[Murphy3]

just because they are the five best players does not mean that it'll be the best lineup.

Dirk's the best defender that they have at the PF spot. Moving him out of position and putting him at the five with walker or jamison at the four just makes it difficult for the mavs to compete defensively against many teams

sure, some teams it makes sense just to line up the five best scorers and run them off of the court. however, that won't work against many teams

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

That lineup doesn't see a lot of time, and it shouldn't. That lineup is not exactly awe inspiring on the defensive end (although not as dismal as some make it out to be) and playing Dirk at the 5 for extended minutes is asking for trouble. That lineup should be on the floor only in situations where the team needs to shoot itself out of a deficit or get a crucial last second shot. For all the improvements in D and rebounding, I don't know if I trust this lineup when it comes down to the W or L depending on getting a stop.

[Razor]

What do you think of Dirk,fin,nash,jamison,bradley line up?? I believe that is the way to go. I think the reason walker is the starter is for the same reasons jiri welsh saw so much playing time. How much longer till we can trade someone from the celtics trade?

[Murphy3]

I prefer Walker in the starting lineup over Jamison. Walker's probably a slightly better defender and he also has the ability to make others better with his passing. I would like to see just a little better shot selection out of him. However, I wouldn't be too upset one way or the other if Walker or Jamison were in the starting lineup.


As for someone being traded, I just do not see that happening until the Mavs can get a clear read of what they have with this group.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: canadianpolak
I am really upset with what is happening. In the last 13 games, the Mavericks did not even try to put Antawn into the starting line up. Why not try C- Dirk, PF- Antawn, SF- Walker, SG- Fin, and PG- Nash. Theyre doing ok, 9-4, 2nd in the west, but they could be doing much better. Id rather have them find their footing with Antawn in the starting line up than have them try to find it in a less efficent way when he comes off the bench. Last night vs. Denver, they started Najera at C, who is smaller than Antawn, and not as good as a rebounder even. It's just too bad that they havent even tried it, for sure it could be argued against that Antawn should not start, but they should give it a shot. They have a new team this year, and they are planning in a really traditional fashion. Now what's up with them trying to get old man Davis from Toronto, CUBAN WAKE THE HELL UP, youre slipping since the trade buddy, your space man uniform SUCKED, your starting line up plus your line ups during the game need more revision and experimentation, and you're gonna make a deal that would really cost you, long-term and short. PEOPLE, i need your thoughts, why is there this trade rumor? How would Dallas benefit from getting Davis and losing Antawn and Delk....should Antawn be included in the starting line up? Lvubun1, great work with finding the link
http://www.82games.com, it supports for the Fab 5 starting line up
eg.
Unit
Nash-Finley-Jamison-Walker-Nowitzki
Min
8.38%
Off
122.9
Def
79.8
Net
43.1
W
8
L
1
Win%
88.8
eFG
559
eFGA
.351
FTA
+0.9
Close
33%
dClose
33%
Reb
93%
T/O
+5%

Look at it in relativity to the other line ups, WAY better.

I think Nellie should at least try to start the Big 5 in a few games. We don't know how it will click since no one has seen it yet. What we have seen if that it worked in the second half of the Denver game. If the Big 5 doesn't get big leads in the first quarter, then maybe they should try something different. I would be willing to try a Big 5 starting lineup just to see what happens. Its still early in the season anyway.

By the way, canadianpolak, are you living in Canada?

[Stressboy]

It also closed out the Spurs game at San Antonio. That is our best rebounding and thus best defensive lineup. Aslo, it creates the biggest mismatches for the other team. As I said when this trade went down, if we are going to win a championship, it is that lineup that will get it done. The more time they get together, the better they will be including Dirk who needs to learn to play the 5. Defensively, he is about equal to Rasho, but offensively, he is the best center in the league and yes, offensively, he is better than Duncan or Shaq. We need to stop messing around and get that team to start and finish and plug in Best, Najera, Howard, Bradley, Fortson, Delk, throughout the game.

Stressboy

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

Originally posted by: Razor
What do you think of Dirk,fin,nash,jamison,bradley line up?? I believe that is the way to go. I think the reason walker is the starter is for the same reasons jiri welsh saw so much playing time. How much longer till we can trade someone from the celtics trade?

That was the preseason. Nellie's not going to do something like that in the regular season because one of two things happens:
1. The team loses, but said player looks really good. Nellie knows the value of the regular season and homecourt advantage. Obviously this isn't happening now althoguh it did in the preseason.
2. The team wins, in which case if it ain't broke...

besides, Nellie is not going to pull the trigger of a deal unless it is a no-brainer, so who is on the block that would really significantly improve this team?

[kingrex]

Nellie is pretty determined to make Jamison the sixth man of this team. Jamison will learn this new role and provide that offensive punch from the bench. If Dirk and/or Walker get into foul trouble, Nellie likes having that guy on the bench he can go to, thus Jamison.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jamison in the starting line-up, but I also see his value coming off the bench. I have no doubt that the Big 5 is our best line-up, but that doesn't mean that they should start the game. Nellie likes to play with match-ups and having Jamison as a type of trump card can be an advantage. It isn't our best defensive line-up, but certainly our best all-around.

As for trade rumors, I prefer to comment on them when and if they happen. So far, the Mavs management has not done a bad trade. At the very least it has come out even. They are opportunistic and whatever trade they make will usually improve this team (using history as proof).

[Chiwas]

Even when Nelson is a proved good coach for matchups rotations, also is a proved bad coach whith his Nellie ball.

I mean, he often gets advantage chosing an specific player over a player of the rival's coach, but, in the same time, often he gives advantage in other spot.

The statistics theory says that everything has to get even in the long term, 82 games, then why to play risky when there is an optional rotation, the big five, that can give him the same with less headaches?

[jayC]

If Bradley and Fortson were viable options at center why did the mavs spend most of the offseason trying to lure in ZO or Brad Miller. The answer is that they don't trust these guys to win a championship. Granted Bradley has played well of late but I have seen so many games where he doesn't play hard.

Im not necessarily pulling for the big five to go 48 minutes a game but they have hardly played together as a unit. Jamison, Walker and Dirk are far better rebounders then bradley. If bradley and minutes is the answer then why do we have a big men free agency thread? Greg Ostertag, come on, Vlade. Simply put why even bother playing bradley if he isn't your answer.

[Dirks Hair]

Id rather start Jamison. Scoring a butt load of points in the first means less pressure to make points in quarters 2 -3, and it seems like the mavs are always playing close these days up til the middle of the 3rd.

So, please start Jamison, or atleast give it a try for one game, Nellie can come up with 1000 starting line ups before he ever thinks of putting jamison in the starting line up. he is so weird.

Go Mavs!

[jacktruth]

Starting lineups, particularly with Nellie are overrated. You choose a starting lineup to set the tone of the game and get your players operating in thier strength as early as possible. On the defensive side, you want to prevent the other team from setting the tone, and getting thier players operating in thier strength.

Nearly every team in the NBA starts with the same strategy: Pound the ball inside and establish an inside game early. When you get into a rythm and the other team makes adjustments, start an inside-out game to your best shooters.

If you start Dirk at center, teams will attack the basket, and they will be successful. Dirk gets frustrated defensively (perhaps even in foul trouble). Dirk also is out of place offensively, and though he can score at the 5, he is not as successful. By then the opponent gets warmed up and feeling good (possibly with a point advantage), thier outside shot starts dropping, and you are playing thier game.

But if you start Bradley, the defense faces a great shot blocker. Dirk plays his natural position on defense and gets off to a better start offensively. The front court of Bradley-Walker-Dirk is a good rebounding group, which frees Nash up a bit.

Now, the other team must make adjustments to the Mavs tone and the mavs offense. After all that, you still have a premier scorer on the bench in Jamison. Once the mavs start thier frontcourt rotation, they are tough to beat. You nearly always have Dirk-Walker, Dirk-Jamison, or Jamison-Walker. Any of these pairs can produce points and rebounds. If you are going against a backup center, you have a major offensive advantage with Dirk-Jamison-Walker.

To sum up, the start of the game is a small part of the game. The stretch of the game depends much more heavily on your rotation than on your starting lineup. That is the Mavs current philosophy. This year, I'm on board with it.

[LRB]

Excellent analysis Jacktruth. I sincerely hope that we can go with it more. And it is far easier to keep an opponent frustrated than it is to get them frustrated in the 1st place.

I also like Bradley starting because if the refs are going to tag anyone with 2 quick fouls it will probably be Shawn than anyone else in the Mavs front line. Otherwise it seems that Dirk has the higher probability. And if I had to choose between having Shawn or Dirk in foul trouble, it's no real contest. I choose Shawn everytime. We can survive better without Shawn than without Dirk. Nellie can sit Shawn to protect him and have him come back in later. This allows Shawn to still play very agressive on D while he's in the game. With Dirk, Nellie usually can't afford to sit him long, so usually Dirk has to play while in foul trouble. This means that he has to cut way back on his agression while on D. I would prefer that we as much as possible have a team on the floor where everyone can be fairly agressive on D.

[Stressboy]

Jacktruth,

The only valid point you have is the potential foul trouble invovling Dirk. I would argue that because of Dirks lack of perimiter defensive skills that playing Center is his most natural and most effective defensive position and that by covering up his lack of D outside, the unit as a whole is much better off. Dirk is also becoming a decent help side shot blocker.

The reason to advocate Jamison to start is both Nellie tendenices. 1) He almost always plays his starters together for the first 7-8 minutes before bringing in the first bench player. 2) He has started Dirk at Center in the majority of lineups so far, thus negating the foul trouble issue. The fact that Dirk has started at center and not really had many foul troubles discounts the foul argument to some extent, but some of you guys that love to crunch numbers, can I'm sure find the actual breakdown.

The first one is the most significant because it allows Jamison to get his deserved and natural 30-35 minutes a game. I would play the fancy five for the first 8 minutes to start the 1st and 3rd and the last 7 minutes of the game. That is a total of 23 minutes with the best 5 on the floor together at the most crucial times. The other 25 minutes would have the combinations that you talk about.

As for Dirk not being effective at the 5 on O, that is just crazy. When Dirk starts to consistently hit the 3 again, you will see the true power of that lineup. The reason we have been struggling a lot(beside the two games without Nash) is that Dirk is hitting only 20% of his 3's and he is starting to pass them up. When that changes, people will trully fear the Mavs.

Duncan, Shaq, Miller, Dampier - I can't think of any others that might beat up Dirk in the post, but he is just a likely to get them in foul trouble as the other way around if they try to chase him on the perimiter. Also, I don't mind switching up a little to start some games as the matchups dictate, but overall the goal is to get the best 5 players on the floor as much as possible to get as much chemistry as possible going forward.

Stressboy

[Mavs Rule]

Now this is what I call a quality debate! Nice posts Jacktruth and Stressboy. I tend to lean toward stressboy's take on this. The big five have shown that they play very well together, and having them start would give us more of a cushion going into halftime of more games.

The more they play together --> the more they learn the nuances of each other's game --> the more they will click at the end of games and when playoffs roll around. I have noticed that Toine is finally starting to feed Twan more, knowing that he will get a quality shot. These two could develop a real chemistry together like Steve and Dirk have.

[grndmstr_c]

I still like Bradley or Fortson in the starting lineup at center most nights with one of the A's coming off the bench. The virtues have been extolled by others, so I won't repeat them. As to Delk occasionally getting the start, I'm not big on that. I think he'll pay nice dividends for us eventually, but it'll be backing up Steve and Mike, and coming in to match up with teams like Minny and Sac when they go small. Since these teams won't start their small lineups there's no reason for us to do it (I know Minny will start Wally at SF, but his weakness is creating his own shot off the dribble, so I think we can defend him with either AJ or AW).

[jacktruth]

Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
Now this is what I call a quality debate! Nice posts Jacktruth and Stressboy. I tend to lean toward stressboy's take on this. The big five have shown that they play very well together, and having them start would give us more of a cushion going into halftime of more games.

Unless you always play your entire starting lineup for the entire first half, I don't follow your reasoning. Who you choose as your starting five doesn't describe what happens in the first half as much as a list of who played how many minutes. Who you sub in during the first half has a bit to do with the number of points you score in the half.

Also, how much "cushion" you have at the half has to do with how many baskets you prevent on the other end of the floor. This big 5 lineup cannot effectively guard the center position consistently. Recall that playing center defensively involves man-to-man and help defense. It involves much more help defense than the power forward spot. Although Dirk is improving at pretending like he's a center, he is still not a center and will never be as effective at center as he is at power forward on offense or defense.

How much cushion you have at the half doesn't always translate to how much cushion you have at the end of the game, which I much prefer.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: jacktruth

Unless you always play your entire starting lineup for the entire first half, I don't follow your reasoning. Who you choose as your starting five doesn't describe what happens in the first half as much as a list of who played how many minutes. Who you sub in during the first half has a bit to do with the number of points you score in the half.

Also, how much "cushion" you have at the half has to do with how many baskets you prevent on the other end of the floor. This big 5 lineup cannot effectively guard the center position consistently. Recall that playing center defensively involves man-to-man and help defense. It involves much more help defense than the power forward spot. Although Dirk is improving at pretending like he's a center, he is still not a center and will never be as effective at center as he is at power forward on offense or defense.

How much cushion you have at the half doesn't always translate to how much cushion you have at the end of the game, which I much prefer.

And I would say that it is the help defense at the 5 spot which gets Dirk in most of his foul trouble. He has greatly improved at this area IMO, but that doesn't mean that we want to place him there early because he's either likely to pick up fouls or allow a layup drill. Neither are particularly appealing. Bradley is the absolute best player on the team at playing help defense from the 5 and one of the best in the league.

And stressboy I would hardly call guarding the 4 position perimeter defense, unless you're taking on a team with Dirk on it every game.

[Stressboy]

Jacktruth,

The following quote comes from todays insider:

"JAMISON JUXTAPOSED
When Antawn Jamison has played 30 or more minutes this year for the Dallas Mavericks, he's scored 20.3 points per game and the Mavs have gone 4-2. When he's played less than 30 minutes a game, he's scored only 7.4 points per game and the Mavs are 5-2. Combined, he's averaged 13.4 points per game on a career-high 48 percent shooting from the field. Last year, for the Warriors, he averaged 22.2 points per game on 47 percent shooting. "

The starting 5 is important because of the way that Nelson works his rotations. He almost always plays his starting 5 for 7-8 minutes which guarantees that Jamison will get in there. The way it is now, Nelson does not always come with Jamison first off the bench because he starts to look at the flow and matchups and he gets away from what we all know is best for the team which is Jamison needs more time on the floor.

I will continue to disagree with you on Dirks ability to defend the 4 and 5. There are few true 5s in this league with enough speed or O game to really mess with Dirk and I think he will benifit from playing the Ostertags\Vlades\Millers\Rashos\Kandis of the world vs. the Brands/Gasol/Raheems/Randolfs of the world.

Stressboy

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: jacktruth

Unless you always play your entire starting lineup for the entire first half, I don't follow your reasoning. Who you choose as your starting five doesn't describe what happens in the first half as much as a list of who played how many minutes. Who you sub in during the first half has a bit to do with the number of points you score in the half.

Stressboy already answered this and I agree with him. Jamison off the bench does not get the minutes that he would if he started. Starting allows him to get in a flow and we have seen that it makes a difference with him. He was started in the second half against Denver and had a season high in points scored. And almost all of those came in the second half. Of course one game will not tell the story, but it does bode well for my point since it has not been tried before in the regular season that I can remember.

Also, how much "cushion" you have at the half has to do with how many baskets you prevent on the other end of the floor. This big 5 lineup cannot effectively guard the center position consistently. Recall that playing center defensively involves man-to-man and help defense. It involves much more help defense than the power forward spot. Although Dirk is improving at pretending like he's a center, he is still not a center and will never be as effective at center as he is at power forward on offense or defense.

It has been shown in other posts that the big five lineup outscores the opponents handily (in +/- stats), and better than any other combination of players that Nellie has tried, so Dirk has been somewhat successful as center in that formation. I agree with your idea about Dirk being more effective at the PF. I tend to think that Bradley, Dirk, Jamison, Fin, Nash would be the best lineup, but I don't think Nellie has really given that combination much of a chance yet.

How much cushion you have at the half doesn't always translate to how much cushion you have at the end of the game, which I much prefer.

Yes that is very true. But you have a much greater chance of blowing someone out if you have a lead going into the half. Also I had already mentioned the end of game importance in my previous post. That was:

The more they play together --> the more they learn the nuances of each other's game --> the more they will click at the end of games and when playoffs roll around.

Jacktruth, I was very impressed with your post, and the thinking that went into it. Thanks for your contribution.



[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[dirno2000]

Put me in the Stressboy camp.

It does matter who starts. If you think that the 5-star lineup is your best (and the early +/- numbers would support this), then you need to start them. Otherwise, it's hard to get them on the court at the same time for any significant minutes in the 1st half. By the time Nelson brings in Jamison, it's time to start resting the others.

The "Dirk should not play center" argument gets way too much play. He plays nothing like a center on offense so we can eliminate that part of the argument. On defense, when we are in man-to-man, Dirk will almost always play the weakest offensive player. On most teams that's the center. I would much rather have Dirk playing Center on defense than small forward. While his perimeter defense has improved, it still lags behind his post defense. I saw Chris Anderson blow by him untouched the other night. That shouldn't happen.

I also think this group enjoys playing with each other. They just seem to pick it up on both ends of the court when they are on the floor together. Saturday night was a perfect example. We go with an offensive lineup and Denver's fg% drops. Not because any of those guys are stoppers, but because they like playing together and the intensity seemed to pick up. If everybody is willing to chip in and do the little things, there's nothing wrong with having 5 scorers of the floor.

[kg_veteran]

I constantly debate this issue in my mind, just because I like going through the mental gymnastics of how the team's roster should best be utilized.

I think valid arguments could be made to support any number of combinations in the starting lineup.

I prefer Bradley in the starting lineup. I think he prevents the other team from getting too many easy baskets early on, and he ensures that the Mavs compete on the boards early.

If you're going to start Jamison, I see two problems that have to be addressed:

1. How are you going to defend a tough post player?
2. How are you going to make sure that everybody gets going offensively?

If you can address those problems, I think the unit is otherwise good enough to get by against pretty much anybody. It's a pretty good rebounding unit and the offense is obviously there. Against certain perimeter players you may have to give fewer minutes to either Finley or Jamison and more to Howard or Delk, but those are the main problems that I see.

[sike]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I constantly debate this issue in my mind, just because I like going through the mental gymnastics of how the team's roster should best be utilized

good for you kg, every time i do mental gymnastics I badly sprain my medulla oblongata!

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[canadianpolak]

[Stressboy]

Kg,

The Mavs will defend a good post man the same way they always do, with zones and doubles. Though in the case of a Duncan, Shaq, Yao, you might switch up starting line-ups as Bradley/Najera seems to bother Duncan/Yao and Fortson might help more with Shaq, but really Dirk/Jamison/Walker are all about the same guarding any of the big guys because each one is a little different look, Dirk is taller, Walker stronger and Jamison quicker. The key is that the other two shut down the offside rebounders and the primary man on try to keep the big guy off the boards.

As for getting everyone going, I think that is an unrealistic goal in some respects. All 5 guys are are able to go for 30 on any given night, and every 30 games we might be lucky enough to see 3-5 of them go for 20 on the same night, but most of the time 2 will dominate, 2 will be middle of the road and the last 1 will have an off night. The match-ups and tempo will dictate this as much as anything, but getting all the guys warmed up and playing together will give them all the best chance to dominate.

I think the thing that concerns most with the line up is consistent play from the bench. After looking at our small sample of games at 82games.com, I have come to the conclusion that besides Nash keeping healthy , the most important objective of Nelson should have is to always have Jamison/Najera/Howard in the small forward position.

This means no Finley or Walker at SF. Looking at the numbers and the type of players each of these guys are, it makes perfect sense. Jamison/Najera and to a lessor extent Howard play in the paint. They don't drift all the time like Dirk/Fin/Walker will tend to do. We really need that guy that hangs around or makes those quick cuts to the basket and is always fighting for the O board.

Stressboy
edited: My last paragraph was incomplete.

[kg_veteran]

The Mavs will defend a good post man the same way they always do, with zones and doubles. Though in the case of a Duncan, Shaq, Yao, you might switch up starting line-ups as Bradley/Najera seems to bother Duncan/Yao and Fortson might help more with Shaq, but really Dirk/Jamison/Walker are all about the same guarding any of the big guys because each one is a little different look, Dirk is taller, Walker stronger and Jamison quicker. The key is that the other two shut down the offside rebounders and the primary man on try to keep the big guy off the boards.

You hit on my point here. You're going to have to start a defender against teams like LA and SA in order to deal with Duncan and Shaq in the best manner possible.

Against about 20-25 teams in the league, it probably doesn't matter who the Mavs start as long as they play well.

As for getting everyone going, I think that is an unrealistic goal in some respects. All 5 guys are are able to go for 30 on any given night, and every 30 games we might be lucky enough to see 3-5 of them go for 20 on the same night, but most of the time 2 will dominate, 2 will be middle of the road and the last 1 will have an off night. The match-ups and tempo will dictate this as much as anything, but getting all the guys warmed up and playing together will give them all the best chance to dominate.

This is true, but if the lineup you roll out there causes you to try too hard to get everyone involved and to go away from the hot man (as we often do with too many scorers on the floor), you actually HURT offensive productivity, IMO. I think that's what you see with five scorers on the floor.

I think the thing that concerns most with the line up is consistent play from the bench. After looking at our small sample of games at 82games.com, I have come to the conclusion that besides Nash keeping healthy , the most important objective of Nelson should have is to always have Jamison/Najera/Howard in the small forward position.

This means no Finley or Walker at SF. Looking at the numbers and the type of players each of these guys are, it makes perfect sense. Jamison/Najera and to a lessor extent Howard play in the paint. They don't drift all the time like Dirk/Fin/Walker will tend to do. We really need that guy that hangs around or makes those quick cuts to the basket and is always fighting for the O board.

I completely agree about Fin, who should play only at SG, but disagree about Walker. Walker is probably the best defender other than Howard at SF, the best rebounder (offensive, defensive or otherwise), and the best passer. Also, Najera hasn't played SF this year to my knowledge.

[canadianpolak]

Thanks for all your thoughts on this guys.
Stressboy, I especially liked what you had to say. Very strong argument about what line ups they should use and deducting the foul trouble argument for Dirk, good job. It's true, there is lack of solid centers in the league so Dirk would fit in fine. Plus, there is no ABSOLUTE starting line up, I mean, if the Mavs play vs. a "Duncan, Shaq, Miller, Dampier"...etc. then they could always ADAPT, put in Bradley, Fortson, or Najera....so they he can tire out the big men, and collect the personal fouls. Stressboy, your argument was money. Jacktruth, you provide jack-evidence that Dirk cannot defend the 4-5. dirno2000, I agree with that it would be hard to play the fab-5 throughout the game based on substitutions. The start of the game is not just important, but also the start of each half. It is important to set the tone not just at the beginning, but also when you leave the locker room to play the second half of the game after the other team got their pep talk and their self esteem boost. Just look at Dallas' last game vs. Denver :
Denver 25, 35, 20, 21
Dallas 32, 22, 32, 29
I just don't understand why the fab-5 haven't even been tried out yet. We can just base all this on theoritical stats, I wish Nellie could just apply it.

[uberfan]

Like it or not, Dirk will be playing more at the 5. There just aren't any better centers available for just one of the A's and change, unless you think Rasheed Wallace would play the 5 on the Mavs (he wouldn't, Nellie would have him at the 3).

The fact is, Raef is better than most of the other centers now available or frequently discussed as trade possibilities. We traded him and got a better player in return (2 if you count Delk).

Delk needs to be our 6th man. He is has the attitude and the experience in that role.

I like this current roster. I would also like to "tweak" it with another 6'10" and taller guy if we could get one. We passsed on all the usual suspects that were available in the summer. It turns out we were lucky and didn't get two we would have liked to have had (Zo and Khandi).

Two others wanted to be here (Rasho and Stepania) but we didn't want them.

Any of the 3 centers on Seattle would help and be an upgrade to our bench but none are worth either of the A's in any package that I can think of.

When we play the Dallas 5-0, synergy takes over and each is made better by the others. We have sufficient and more than adequate role players to fill in as needed and give Nellie all of the tools he needs to play match-up guru.

About the only player on the roster that doesn't seem to fit is TAW. He alone is not going to get us any upgrades at center. You can talk about Best, but I am willing to be patient with him. He is a proven vet and seems to have the right attitude and I beleive he will come around.

So, unless some how management can find a way to trade TAW/Best/Fortson for a significant upgrade, then I say play the best 5 as much as possible (whether they are all there at the tip-off or not) until proven that they cannot play together. Early returns strongly suggest otherwise.