Iverson for Kidd??? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

j · 01-25-2009, 07:09 PM

What do you guys think of an Iverson for Kidd trade. Both are expiring contract and both need to make a change.

Itachi · 01-25-2009, 07:29 PM

I think this is the wrong section. For what it's worth, I wouldn't make the trade.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 01-25-2009, 07:43 PM

trade and draft board....

if we get prince in return maybe

LonghornDub · 01-25-2009, 07:45 PM

No. God no. And I like AI.

Rick41 · 01-25-2009, 07:52 PM

Let's try and land Mutombo while we're at it.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-25-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

No. God no. And I like AI.

No. God no. And I hate AI.

Dtownsfinest · 01-25-2009, 08:34 PM

I'd take any pg in this league for Kidd just as long as they look to score. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even be opposed to JET being our starting point and doing something with Kidd's contract.

Dirkgreatness · 01-25-2009, 08:38 PM

Getting Felton would've been nice.....

Jared Rice · 01-25-2009, 08:45 PM

Iverson / Wright / Howard / Nowitzki / Damp / Terry / Bass

looks can be deceiving

Silk Smoov · 01-25-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'd take any pg in this league for Kidd just as long as they look to score. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even be opposed to JET being our starting point and doing something with Kidd's contract.

When I said this last week, I was attacked as a madman. I have said this for a while now that I think going back to Jet at the PG could be the answer to helping out this team a bit, and maybe just bring Kidd in for Jet, and trade to get a real starting SF for Howard and roll with Jet, Wright, New SF, Dirk and Damp, and have Kidd as the back-up PG...Then we make the Jet/Dirk pick roll/pop our biggest weapon again for the most part, and go back to isolations with Dirk as well. It is a proven system that has worked in the past, and teams still have not defended it very well, except for a couple of teams who can take Dirk out of the equation. I would rather lose to those couple of teams and wear out the rest of the league.

BGMaverick9 · 01-26-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

When I said this last week, I was attacked as a madman. I have said this for a while now that I think going back to Jet at the PG could be the answer to helping out this team a bit, and maybe just bring Kidd in for Jet, and trade to get a real starting SF for Howard and role with Jet, Wright, New SF, Dirk and Damp, and have Kidd as the back-up PG...

So you want to take away our bench scoring and have Kidd work with even lesser talent. Bass, Hollins, Singleton, Carroll, George? I don't think so.

And I don't really see Jet as a defensive upgrade at PG over Kidd.

Silk Smoov · 01-26-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

So you want to take away our bench scoring and have Kidd work with even lesser talent. Bass, Hollins, Singleton, Carroll, George? I don't think so.

And I don't really see Jet as a defensive upgrade at PG over Kidd.

Have you not been watching Kidd? Kidd specialty is taking little known players and making them look better. This indeed could be a good thing with our younger athletic players. I can see Green, Hollins, Singleton, Bass and Kidd playing at a frantic pace against the 2nd string of players and utilizing Kidd in a much better way. Plus you can always bring Kidd in back at the PG slot whenever you like with the starting line-up by mixing it up a bit..

purplefrog · 01-26-2009, 03:14 PM

Why not JET + Stack + Wright for AI? I doubt if the Pistons do it, but can you imagine $40,000,000 coming off the books next year??

Silk Smoov · 01-26-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Why not JET + Stack + Wright for AI? I doubt if the Pistons do it, but can you imagine $40,000,000 coming off the books next year??

All coming off the book to still be just a hair over the cap. I say "No", plus anything that includes trading Jet and leaving just Dirk is a big "No-No". You are not going to get a better player for Jet, so why trade him, when he is clearly our #2 and sometimes #1 option?

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-26-2009, 04:59 PM

Chris Webber said it best. AI needs 4 other robots around him for the team to be successful.

If people are upset with Josh not passing Dirk the ball....

SMC0007 · 01-26-2009, 05:44 PM

Deal, get the scoring load directly off of Dirk. AI gets plenty of assists. Gimmie someone that goes to the hole, finishes and gets tons of calls. I 'll miss the defense and rebounding of Kidd but Dirk needs some help. AI drive and kick to Dirk or drive and score.

alby · 01-26-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Chris Webber said it best. AI needs 4 other robots around him for the team to be successful.

If people are upset with Josh not passing Dirk the ball....

Howard 1.7 assists per game for his career
Iverson 6.3 assists per game for his career

Iverson has always been an underrated playmaker IMHO.

ty · 01-26-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Chris Webber said it best. AI needs 4 other robots around him for the team to be successful.

If people are upset with Josh not passing Dirk the ball....

I can assure you Dirk isn't the only one that Josh doesn't pass the ball to.

BGMaverick9 · 01-26-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Have you not been watching Kidd? Kidd specialty is taking little known players and making them look better. This indeed could be a good thing with our younger athletic players. I can see Green, Hollins, Singleton, Bass and Kidd playing at a frantic pace against the 2nd string of players and utilizing Kidd in a much better way. Plus you can always bring Kidd in back at the PG slot whenever you like with the starting line-up by mixing it up a bit..

Apparently I haven't been watching Kidd since you asked...

Lesser talent means you still have to work harder to get what you ultimately want.

I think it creates a lack of balance on the scoring aspect with starters vs bench. Green and Singleton don't necessarily get the bulk of the minutes...maybe this would force Carlisle to play them more, that's one way you have to look at it. Consistency can go a long way, you know Jet is going to bring scoring from the bench, you're not going to be fully sold on Bass, Green, Singleton and etc getting theirs and holding the fort down...even with Kidd.

Plus, I don't agree with the assessment of Jet being traded is an absolute no no, and I love Jet and what he brings to the table. I can't stress enough about value: his value is peaking now, if you can get a solid offer that addresses 1 or 2 needs, you have to look at it. I love what he brings and does for the roster and community, but you can't let it cloud things.

Silk Smoov · 01-26-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Apparently I haven't been watching Kidd since you asked...

Lesser talent means you still have to work harder to get what you ultimately want.

I think it creates a lack of balance on the scoring aspect with starters vs bench. Green and Singleton don't necessarily get the bulk of the minutes...maybe this would force Carlisle to play them more, that's one way you have to look at it. Consistency can go a long way, you know Jet is going to bring scoring from the bench, you're not going to be fully sold on Bass, Green, Singleton and etc getting theirs and holding the fort down...even with Kidd.

Plus, I don't agree with the assessment of Jet being traded is an absolute no no, and I love Jet and what he brings to the table. I can't stress enough about value: his value is peaking now, if you can get a solid offer that addresses 1 or 2 needs, you have to look at it. I love what he brings and does for the roster and community, but you can't let it cloud things.

I know what you are saying, but realistically what player can we get for Jet that someone would give us for Jet? I just dont see it happening and the Mavs getting better. If Howard lived up to being the #2, then I would say that trading Jet at this high value would be great, but as it stands right now, we need Jet to be the #2 and sometimes #1 option. I dont see us getting another #2 option w/o trading Howard.

Now, if we could get a true #2 option at the SG slot, then I think I may go for it and it would make sense, but I think GM's are smarter than that, and know a true #2 option at the SG is hard to come by, and you dont trade that guy for a tweener #2 guy

craggmac · 01-26-2009, 08:12 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... no.

BGMaverick9 · 01-26-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I know what you are saying, but realistically what player can we get for Jet that someone would give us for Jet? I just dont see it happening and the Mavs getting better. If Howard lived up to being the #2, then I would say that trading Jet at this high value would be great, but as it stands right now, we need Jet to be the #2 and sometimes #1 option. I dont see us getting another #2 option w/o trading Howard.

Now, if we could get a true #2 option at the SG slot, then I think I may go for it and it would make sense, but I think GM's are smarter than that, and know a true #2 option at the SG is hard to come by, and you dont trade that guy for a tweener #2 guy

If you don't/can't get a SG then you look the other route with a big man. It might not be one solid person, but it could be pieces/parts that make this roster better, not a home run but the combined parts make it work.

Person A or a group of players for Jet
+ whatever you get from Howard getting dealt

That could equal a nice sum of parts to add to the roster.

I'm not saying I want to deal Jet away for just anything, it has to be right. Even then, it'll be tough because I love Jet and everything he brings to the table. It's not just on the court, it's outside the lines with getting the crowd going and his community work. The FO will know Jet is playing out of his mind and won't take a bargain to ship him away. If someone provides a deal that is worth taking, you have to take it.

Either way, trading Jet isn't at the top of my agenda, Howard would take that spot.

Robillion · 01-26-2009, 09:32 PM

If we traded Jet for Iverson and let both the Kidd, Iverson, and other expiring contracts expire then we have somewhere between $15-20 million to shop with in summer 2010. Right? That could definitely pick up a really good free agent to pair with Dirk (Wade, Bosh, etc)... but then would we have money left to pick up a good enough supporting cast?

Id much rather keep Jet, trade Howard, trade Kidd to a team that is willing to give up talent for cap space, and see how that goes.

Silk Smoov · 01-26-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

If you don't/can't get a SG then you look the other route with a big man. It might not be one solid person, but it could be pieces/parts that make this roster better, not a home run but the combined parts make it work.

Person A or a group of players for Jet
+ whatever you get from Howard getting dealt

That could equal a nice sum of parts to add to the roster.

I'm not saying I want to deal Jet away for just anything, it has to be right. Even then, it'll be tough because I love Jet and everything he brings to the table. It's not just on the court, it's outside the lines with getting the crowd going and his community work. The FO will know Jet is playing out of his mind and won't take a bargain to ship him away. If someone provides a deal that is worth taking, you have to take it.

Either way, trading Jet isn't at the top of my agenda, Howard would take that spot.

Yeah, but you still did not list the name of players that we could realistically get for him. I am curious on that list, because maybe I am overlooking some people. I also think that if you trade Kidd, Howard and Jet, then what kind of system do we have? I think Jet should be right b4 trading Dirk, so to me, we trade Howard first, then Kidd, then roll with the pieces we get for them. After that, if things dont work, then we might as well just re-build and do away with Dirk and Jet to finish there career somewhere else.

Lastly, I hear what you are saying about if we can't get that SG for Jet, that we can go out and get that center. So, if we go out and get a big man that is making about 9-10million for Jet, then what do we do with a 10million dollar Damp? I just dont see how it would make financial sense to do that. IMO

BGMaverick9 · 01-26-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, but you still did not list the name of players that we could realistically get for him. I am curious on that list, because maybe I am overlooking some people. I also think that if you trade Kidd, Howard and Jet, then what kind of system do we have? I think Jet should be right b4 trading Dirk, so to me, we trade Howard first, then Kidd, then roll with the pieces we get for them. After that, if things dont work, then we might as well just re-build and do away with Dirk and Jet to finish there career somewhere else.

Lastly, I hear what you are saying about if we can't get that SG for Jet, that we can go out and get that center. So, if we go out and get a big man that is making about 9-10million for Jet, then what do we do with a 10million dollar Damp? I just dont see how it would make financial sense to do that. IMO

Jet isn't one of the major problems with this roster. He has his flaws, but he does a ton to make up for them. He would be #2 but not 1b on my list for assets you have to keep around right now. I think the fact that he is a tweener guard suggests if you move either Howard or Jet, a low post man needs to be your primary target to trade for. If the other is staying, you would try to look for the harder to find weapon, which is the big man.

That center should be a useful center at that price...he better be one for that price. In the meantime, Damp can become your backup center. He might not be ideal for a starting center, but he fits as a backup for sure. His contract is almost to the point where it will get pretty valuable. I'm not going to try to be a capologist but I do know that loopholes are there to where Damp's contract isn't as bad as it may seem and can be used for trade value. That becomes important if you don't want to keep him. I'm sure someone on here can give the fine print on his deal.

I think it's easier to suggest trading Jet or Josh for a Center. Why would you trade guard for guard or forward for forward unless you trying to dump salary or get picks?

GermanDunk · 01-27-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j

What do you guys think of an Iverson for Kidd trade. Both are expiring contract and both need to make a change.

Quit smoking pot

Silk Smoov · 01-27-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Jet isn't one of the major problems with this roster. He has his flaws, but he does a ton to make up for them. He would be #2 but not 1b on my list for assets you have to keep around right now. I think the fact that he is a tweener guard suggests if you move either Howard or Jet, a low post man needs to be your primary target to trade for. If the other is staying, you would try to look for the harder to find weapon, which is the big man.

That center should be a useful center at that price...he better be one for that price. In the meantime, Damp can become your backup center. He might not be ideal for a starting center, but he fits as a backup for sure. His contract is almost to the point where it will get pretty valuable. I'm not going to try to be a capologist but I do know that loopholes are there to where Damp's contract isn't as bad as it may seem and can be used for trade value. That becomes important if you don't want to keep him. I'm sure someone on here can give the fine print on his deal.

I think it's easier to suggest trading Jet or Josh for a Center. Why would you trade guard for guard or forward for forward unless you trying to dump salary or get picks?

Ok, so I see you dont have a list of players we could realistically get for Jet, so why would someone give us a $10million dollar center for Jet? That wont happen, and people more than likely will not give us a young talented center who is making the bare min for Jet, plus give up a good player with a decent contract. That just will not happen. If you look at what you are saying, then you are suggesting a fire sale while keeping Dirk. Is that what you are wanting to do? I think we can be saved with a couple of smart moves to players that will not effect the core system we have had in place for a couple of years. First, Stack is out of the system and is too old, so his contract could bring in some nice talent, Kidd has just gotten here and we dont have the pieces to change to a system that he benefits from, so that plus his contract could really bring some young talent, then for me, next we have Howard who has been a cancer and hurt, so he is the most expendable of the 3 core pieces of Howard, Jet and Dirk.

Here is my suggestion:

Trade Kidd = Kirk Hinrich / Larry Hughes (Then you have your PG of the present/future, with size, can defend, and a great shooter, which means pick/roll/pop with Dirk)(Hughes is an instant SG starter and good defender, plus his contract is favorable)

Trade Stack = Earl Watson (Then we have a very good back-up for Kirk and excellent hard nose defender at the PG slot

With just these two simple trades, I think we instantly get back in the hunt as an Elite team if Howard gets healthy and gets back to his ole self.

Now if Howard stays a cancer, then trade him to the Bobcats straight up for Gerald Wallace.

frankvizza · 01-27-2009, 11:19 AM

i love that deal kidd for hinrick and hughes,

TNT · 01-27-2009, 12:05 PM

NOOOOO. iverson smells bad in dallas jersey.

Underdog · 01-27-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT

NOOOOO. iverson smells bad in dallas jersey.

This seems as good a reason as any to keep AI away from Dallas - we don't need his funk stinking up Dirk's rosy fragrance...

BGMaverick9 · 01-27-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Ok, so I see you dont have a list of players we could realistically get for Jet, so why would someone give us a $10million dollar center for Jet? That wont happen, and people more than likely will not give us a young talented center who is making the bare min for Jet, plus give up a good player with a decent contract. That just will not happen. If you look at what you are saying, then you are suggesting a fire sale while keeping Dirk. Is that what you are wanting to do? I think we can be saved with a couple of smart moves to players that will not effect the core system we have had in place for a couple of years. First, Stack is out of the system and is too old, so his contract could bring in some nice talent, Kidd has just gotten here and we dont have the pieces to change to a system that he benefits from, so that plus his contract could really bring some young talent, then for me, next we have Howard who has been a cancer and hurt, so he is the most expendable of the 3 core pieces of Howard, Jet and Dirk.

Here is my suggestion:

Trade Kidd = Kirk Hinrich / Larry Hughes (Then you have your PG of the present/future, with size, can defend, and a great shooter, which means pick/roll/pop with Dirk)(Hughes is an instant SG starter and good defender, plus his contract is favorable)

Trade Stack = Earl Watson (Then we have a very good back-up for Kirk and excellent hard nose defender at the PG slot

With just these two simple trades, I think we instantly get back in the hunt as an Elite team if Howard gets healthy and gets back to his ole self.

Now if Howard stays a cancer, then trade him to the Bobcats straight up for Gerald Wallace.

The Clippers are a very easy team to look at. They have 3 bigs, some with nice contracts, some that don't. Is there a feasible deal out there, I think so...it's just a matter of digging around. I think you could look at it without involving Jet.

How many times do I need to say it? I don't see Jet as a problem for this roster, he is the 2nd to last person I would want to trade. I'm not saying the #1 action needs to be trading Jet, not at all. I'm being open about the idea of it though if something that makes total and complete sense comes along. The chances of that aren't likely, which is fine...but you still have to be open to it.

I really don't see Kidd getting dealt next month. I don't see Cuban saying, "Yeah, I screwed up big time on that one." I don't really think it needs to be done anyways. Kidd has problems but the makeup of the roster is a bigger one and that doesn't do Kidd any favors. You can still get use out of him, you just need 1-2 better players than what we've got. Plus with that deal, I don't think it's enough for what Kidd can bring. I would need picks, cash, and etc. I like Hinrich, but not really on Hughes.

You're counting on two things out of those deals:
Hughes to stay healthy, it always seem like he is hurt or nursing an injury. He misses too many games for my liking...maybe I'm spoiled with Dirk, but still.

Howard getting back to his old self. I think that ship has been long gone for a while, I just don't really see it. If he was going to do it, NOW would be the time where it really needs to take form.

Again, I'm just thinking outside of the box with Jet...I don't think he needs to be traded. It's like Cuban and Donnie say, if there is a no-brainer that somehow presents itself, then you go with it.

Silk Smoov · 01-27-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The Clippers are a very easy team to look at. They have 3 bigs, some with nice contracts, some that don't. Is there a feasible deal out there, I think so...it's just a matter of digging around. I think you could look at it without involving Jet.

How many times do I need to say it? I don't see Jet as a problem for this roster, he is the 2nd to last person I would want to trade. I'm not saying the #1 action needs to be trading Jet, not at all. I'm being open about the idea of it though if something that makes total and complete sense comes along. The chances of that aren't likely, which is fine...but you still have to be open to it.

I really don't see Kidd getting dealt next month. I don't see Cuban saying, "Yeah, I screwed up big time on that one." I don't really think it needs to be done anyways. Kidd has problems but the makeup of the roster is a bigger one and that doesn't do Kidd any favors. You can still get use out of him, you just need 1-2 better players than what we've got. Plus with that deal, I don't think it's enough for what Kidd can bring. I would need picks, cash, and etc. I like Hinrich, but not really on Hughes.

You're counting on two things out of those deals:
Hughes to stay healthy, it always seem like he is hurt or nursing an injury. He misses too many games for my liking...maybe I'm spoiled with Dirk, but still.

Howard getting back to his old self. I think that ship has been long gone for a while, I just don't really see it. If he was going to do it, NOW would be the time where it really needs to take form.

Again, I'm just thinking outside of the box with Jet...I don't think he needs to be traded. It's like Cuban and Donnie say, if there is a no-brainer that somehow presents itself, then you go with it.

Then lets go ahead and add Dirk to that equation if something presents itself. My point was to combat those who said lets go ahead and trade Jet, because his value is so high. I thought that would not be a good move at all, so I said you dont do that for that reason. I could care less about his market value being high for a trade. I think it needs to make since, AFTER going through the other options I outlined. I am saying "ONLY" after trading those players I listed. I dont think we need to look outside the box on Jet, until after getting rid of Kidd, Stack and Howard. My #1 reason for saying this is because I dont see a way to get anything better for Jet that a team would be willing to do, plus if we lose Jet, then we need a SG, and I dont see a GM giving us a true starting SG for a tweener. Do you?

No, I am not counting on Hughes to stay healthy, because my back-up is his expiring contract next week. Getting Hughes is two-fold with his contract. At this point with our current team, I would trade for Kirk for Kidd straight up if Kidd was making what Kirk is making. I see Kirk as a better fit with this current team, plus his age is right there where we need him, plus he has plenty of playoff experience. So, adding Hughes would be a no-brainer (IMO) to the deal to make it work, get a starting SG, defensive gem, and a good tradable contract. Have you looked at Hughes contract? Take a look and then tell me what you think..

BGMaverick9 · 01-27-2009, 03:00 PM

I wouldn't add Dirk to that list unless you're wanting to blow it up, I'm not wanting to do that. He is still the center piece of this roster and you can build around him. I wasn't saying you automatically trade Jet for the simple and sole reason that his value is it's highest right now.

I know what Hughes is contract is...I want my cake and to eat it too. I don't want a player for the sheer value of having him potentially expire, I want him to be able to contribute at a high level. I'm not sold on Hughes being able to do that for us. An example of what I would want is Jermaine O'Neal. He instantly gives us a big man that you have to respect down low, and he can still play on the perimeter a bit. He has health concerns but I trust his performance based on his size and abilities, I trust them more than Hughes. It's simple, big man or guard...you'll take the big man because good ones are so hard to find or obtain.

I said it in one of my earlier posts...why do you trade a guard for a guard straight up unless you're dumping salary or doing something else? It just sounds like trading for the sake of trading...we definitely don't need to do that. I think you have to go Big for guard or vice versa. If you do that, you still have assets that you can still use to obtain a SG or C, depending on what you get with the first deal.

Silk Smoov · 01-27-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I wouldn't add Dirk to that list unless you're wanting to blow it up, I'm not wanting to do that. He is still the center piece of this roster and you can build around him. I wasn't saying you automatically trade Jet for the simple and sole reason that his value is it's highest right now.

I know what Hughes is contract is...I want my cake and to eat it too. I don't want a player for the sheer value of having him potentially expire, I want him to be able to contribute at a high level. I'm not sold on Hughes being able to do that for us. An example of what I would want is Jermaine O'Neal. He instantly gives us a big man that you have to respect down low, and he can still play on the perimeter a bit. He has health concerns but I trust his performance based on his size and abilities, I trust them more than Hughes. It's simple, big man or guard...you'll take the big man because good ones are so hard to find or obtain.

I said it in one of my earlier posts...why do you trade a guard for a guard straight up unless you're dumping salary or doing something else? It just sounds like trading for the sake of trading...we definitely don't need to do that. I think you have to go Big for guard or vice versa. If you do that, you still have assets that you can still use to obtain a SG or C, depending on what you get with the first deal.

Here is where I answered your question on trading position for position straight up: http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=127

Ok, you are not sold on Hughes because of injuries, so you are sold on O'Neal because of injuries? Lets hit on another point. You say Hughes does not perform, so lets check the numbers (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/larry_hughes/index.html), now lets compare that to the combined numbers of our SG starters (Except Jet) and tell me what you get?

Latest report from the Bulls: Update: Bulls general manager John Paxson confirmed he is trying to trade Hughes, the Chicago Tribune reports.

Give me Hughes in a heartbeat with his size, defense and contract for the SG slot, over a 21million center who is injury prone and going from team to team, while we already have a decent center at 10million.

Lastly, I dont understand why you say keep Dirk, when you first said that if an offer come on a table that makes sense, pull the trigger. And you also agreed that trading Jet should be right before trading Dirk? So, we agree on that, then you should agree that trading Jet is a fire sale as well, because that means everyone else is gone that we have talked about?

BGMaverick9 · 01-27-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Here is where I answered your question on trading position for position straight up: http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=127

Ok, you are not sold on Hughes because of injuries, so you are sold on O'Neal because of injuries? Lets hit on another point. You say Hughes does not perform, so lets check the numbers (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/larry_hughes/index.html), now lets compare that to the combined numbers of our SG starters (Except Jet) and tell me what you get?

Latest report from the Bulls: Update: Bulls general manager John Paxson confirmed he is trying to trade Hughes, the Chicago Tribune reports.

Give me Hughes in a heartbeat with his size, defense and contract for the SG slot, over a 21million center who is injury prone and going from team to team, while we already have a decent center at 10million.

Lastly, I dont understand why you say keep Dirk, when you first said that if an offer come on a table that makes sense, pull the trigger. And you also agreed that trading Jet should be right before trading Dirk? So, we agree on that, then you should agree that trading Jet is a fire sale as well, because that means everyone else is gone that we have talked about?

It's simple on why you keep Dirk...he can be the franchise player and can have a roster built around him. I doubt you can say that about Jet. Can you?

Maybe I'm not making my point clear enough...
I acknowledged that O'Neal has health concerns, just like Hughes. I said that if that is a given for both and both are expiring right down the road...I would take the big man. Guards are a dime a dozen, Centers are the hardest thing to find and if you have to chose between one or the other, you have to take the center.

Numbers and stats aren't going to sell me on an debate, it's not a given they'll have the same role or play the same way on a new roster. Even if you do look at the number...Hughes BETTER be looking pretty good because we are pretty thin and inconsistent at the position. He just strikes me as a very pedestrian SG.