PGT: Mavs tried to give it away, but it was the Cavs - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 11-17-2012, 09:56 PM

6-5

Kante · 11-17-2012, 09:59 PM

Dahntay Jones on Irving was a difference maker!

QSA · 11-17-2012, 10:01 PM

I wish OJ could learn from Dahntay defensively, but I think defense is one of those things you either have or you don't.

LSMF · 11-17-2012, 10:01 PM

Props to Dojo, he's always showing signs of becoming a solid player, just keep working hard Dojo.

BGMaverick9 · 11-17-2012, 10:03 PM

14-6 run by Dallas after the MindF where Carlisle was ready to choke someone.

MavsFTR · 11-17-2012, 10:06 PM

So I missed the game. Did Roddy and Brand fall out of Rick's good graces or did someone get injured?

Underdog · 11-17-2012, 10:10 PM

I saw a lot tonight from Mayo, Kaman, DahJo and Collison that will look great once Dirk comes back (as long as the four of them don't combine for 10 of 20 turnovers again...)

Dale4Saul2Red0 · 11-17-2012, 10:16 PM

Like Dirk said via twitter, DOJ was the MVP tonight

BGMaverick9 · 11-17-2012, 10:20 PM

He was in the first half. DAJO was the instrumental hero in the second half.

Underdog · 11-17-2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

So I missed the game. Did Roddy and Brand fall out of Rick's good graces or did someone get injured?

There's no room for Roddy at SG and DoJo is playing better at PG... Brand got 4 rebounds and 2 blocks in 11 minutes, but started out shooting poorly (0-2) so Carlisle opted to go with the hot hand - Chris Kaman (15 points on 50% shooting, 8 rebounds, 6 blocks, 1 assist and 1 steal) and Bernard James (4 points, 5 rebounds, 3 blocks)... Wow, I just realized that we got 11 blocks out of our centers tonight!! (14 total)

sike · 11-17-2012, 10:38 PM

Unless Brand snaps out of this offensive funk, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see Sarge at the back up Center. Sarge won't take as many shots, rebounds like it is his purpose in life, plays very solid defense, and has young/ish fresh legs.

sike · 11-17-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Chris Kaman (15 points on 50% shooting, 8 rebounds, 6 blocks, 1 assist and 1 steal) and Bernard James (4 points, 5 rebounds, 3 blocks)... Wow, I just realized that we got 11 blocks out of our centers tonight!! (14 total)

I'll take it.

Underdog · 11-17-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Unless Brand snaps out of this offensive funk, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather see Sarge at the back up Center. Sarge won't take as many shots, rebounds like it is his purpose in life, plays very solid defense, and has young/ish fresh legs.

Sarge looks good in limited minutes so far... I'm thinking of him in more of a Mahinmi role (two seasons ago), and I like what I see... He hasn't shown the same ceiling that Ian flashed, but his floor seems to be a lot higher - he's a consistent guy who looks like he can hang in the NBA... And Rick Carlisle seems to like him.

To be continued...

sike · 11-17-2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Sarge looks good in limited minutes so far... I'm thinking of him in more of a Mahinmi role (two seasons ago), and I like what I see... He hasn't shown the same ceiling that Ian flashed, but his floor seems to be a lot higher - he's a consistent guy who looks like he can hang in the NBA... And Rick Carlisle seems to like him.

To be continued...

This team has looked like a total mess for the last couple weeks, but I just keep thinking that a starting lineup of:

DC
OJ
Marion
Dirk
Kaman

could get some work done.

sike · 11-17-2012, 11:05 PM

random point: Murphy played 18min tonight and grabbed ZERO rebounds.

*Ugh.

grndmstr_c · 11-17-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

random point: Murphy played 18min tonight, connected on 50% of his three point attempts, and the Mavs outscored the Cavs by 8 points in his time on court.

Another way of looking at it.

Underdog · 11-17-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Another way of looking at it.

Just the other half of the equation - zero rebounds is still sh!tty for a 6'11" guy who plays 18 minutes... But 3-6 from beyond the arc at least makes him valuable on one half of the court, which is better than he had been giving us... I'll take it.

grndmstr_c · 11-17-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Just the other half of the equation - zero rebounds is still sh!tty for a 6'11" guy who plays 18 minutes... But 3-6 from beyond the arc at least makes him valuable on one half of the court, which is better than he had been giving us... I'll take it.

I'd like him to get more than that, too. But Dallas was competitive on the boards as a team tonight, Troy's rebounding has been acceptable overall for the Mavs, and I don't think his bagel tonight resulted from anything like a lack of effort, so I don't see any reason to pile on. He's already taken far more than his fare share of blame for the team's poor play of late.

BGMaverick9 · 11-17-2012, 11:44 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to grndmstr_c again.

Five-ofan · 11-18-2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I'd like him to get more than that, too. But Dallas was competitive on the boards as a team tonight, Troy's rebounding has been acceptable overall for the Mavs, and I don't think his bagel tonight resulted from anything like a lack of effort, so I don't see any reason to pile on. He's already taken far more than his fare share of blame for the team's poor play of late.

It's literally impossible to overstate how bad he's been.

dude1394 · 11-18-2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

14-6 run by Dallas after the MindF where Carlisle was ready to choke someone.

BG...I wasn't able to catch the game. What made Carlisle go off.

rmacomic · 11-18-2012, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

It's literally impossible to overstate how bad he's been.

Brian Cardinal was horrible at times as well. His deficits were less exposed. But lets give Murphy break. He is a stand-in at best, it is not his fault we have been losing. After Dirk, we have a severe drop off in talent at the forward position. That is not on Murphy, that is on the MBT.

chumdawg · 11-18-2012, 01:53 AM

Boy, this thing has taken a turn for the worse, and it's hard to imagine how this ship can right itself. Who are the hot prospects in the lottery?

grndmstr_c · 11-18-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

It's literally impossible to overstate how bad he's been.

To paraphrase crazyboy, you just proofed how impossible you are.

Quote:

After Dirk, we have a severe drop off in talent at the forward position. That is not on Murphy, that is on the MBT.

This team, when healthy, boasts Elton Brand and Vince Carter as their second string forwards. I really don't see the flaw in team construction. They've just been dealing with injuries to their starters, and (admittedly discouragingly) ineffective play from Elton.

Kante · 11-18-2012, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

BG...I wasn't able to catch the game. What made Carlisle go off.

The Cavs made it 87-89 when Marion decided to throw the ball to Mayo at the inbound pass and he wasn't ready. Collison was right next to them, so Mayo never thought he would receive the ball. Cavs made it 89-89 out of it, RC called a timeout and was so hot, i thought he would punch or murder someone.

Five-ofan · 11-18-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Brian Cardinal was horrible at times as well. His deficits were less exposed. But lets give Murphy break. He is a stand-in at best, it is not his fault we have been losing. After Dirk, we have a severe drop off in talent at the forward position. That is not on Murphy, that is on the MBT.

My problem isn't with murph, it's that we insist on playing him so much more than wright. I understand not playing wright at center. His lack of bulk and rebounding is a huge problem there but with dirk out he should be getting 30 minutes a night at pf. His rebounding isn't that terrible for a pf

dude1394 · 11-18-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

The Cavs made it 87-89 when Marion decided to throw the ball to Mayo at the inbound pass and he wasn't ready. Collison was right next to them, so Mayo never thought he would receive the ball. Cavs made it 89-89 out of it, RC called a timeout and was so hot, i thought he would punch or murder someone.

Man...I'd like to see video of that. The best thing we have going theses days is the coach.

Kante · 11-18-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Man...I'd like to see video of that. The best thing we have going theses days is the coach.

I never saw such a look from him. Much "worse" than the one he had at Game 1 against the Lakers being down 16 and turning his mic off. It seemed like he wanted to say or slap something/someone and then directly went by the guys.

In the nba.com recap you saw the basket but the camera went to Irving...

jthig32 · 11-18-2012, 11:30 AM

The adjustment Rick made during the second half was to give Marion more run at PF, which allowed Dhantay Jones to play and guard Irving. That, combined with Rick giving Wright a shot at PF in the first half, is what resulted in Brand getting so little floor time tonight.

Rick, at this point, appears to have completely given up on Brand as a center. I assume he plans to give it another try when Dirk is back. I'll be curious to see how that goes.

dude1394 · 11-18-2012, 11:34 AM

I'm not sure I've ever seen a guys as planted as brand.

Fragism · 11-18-2012, 11:45 AM

I liked Mayo being aggressive and looking to draw fouls. We know he can shoot but if he can get to the line consistently he'll be dangerous.

I've always been impressed with DoJo's court vision and ball handling. I always thought his excellent court vision was his best trait.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-18-2012, 01:39 PM

Brand can't jump anymore and is too short for center. I like his defense and attitude, but the limitations are pretty obvious.

I really like what Sarge is bringing. Looks like he'll be a solid back-up in this league.

grndmstr_c · 11-18-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Brand can't jump anymore and is too short for center. I like his defense and attitude, but the limitations are pretty obvious.

I really like what Sarge is bringing. Looks like he'll be a solid back-up in this league.

Except that center has been Elton's better position for a while now. As far as I can tell, his problem begins and ends with the fact that his scoring efficiency has just all of a sudden taken a deep dive into the crapper.

With you on Sarge as impressing. I was expecting him to look more raw out there than he has. Meaningful postseason or playoff-positioning minutes are still a long-shot, but he's definitely looked like a guy who can soak up some non-garbage minutes in the regular season grind and give the team something when he's out there. That's a win from a rookie second-rounder.

sike · 11-18-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Except that center has been Elton's better position for a while now. As far as I can tell, his problem begins and ends with the fact that his scoring efficiency has just all of a sudden taken a deep dive into the crapper.

Not only has his mid range game disappeared, but he seems to miss one or two bunnies a game. He just looks completely out of sorts out there on the offensive end.

I wonder if his game comes back once they settle down into a bit more of a half court game upon Dirk's return. Brand clearly isn't a run and gun offensive player.

SMC0007 · 11-18-2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Brand can't jump anymore and is too short for center. I like his defense and attitude, but the limitations are pretty obvious.

I really like what Sarge is bringing. Looks like he'll be a solid back-up in this league.

As in right now? Yes! If you're attempting a guess at what his overall potential as an NBA player is I think you're selling him way short.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-18-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Except that center has been Elton's better position for a while now. As far as I can tell, his problem begins and ends with the fact that his scoring efficiency has just all of a sudden taken a deep dive into the crapper.

With you on Sarge as impressing. I was expecting him to look more raw out there than he has. Meaningful postseason or playoff-positioning minutes are still a long-shot, but he's definitely looked like a guy who can soak up some non-garbage minutes in the regular season grind and give the team something when he's out there. That's a win from a rookie second-rounder.

I know Brand has played center, but that was in the eastern conference and he now looks "older" for lack of a better word. His lack of offense correlates with his inability to be as effective at defense as a center. He just doesn't have his legs under him to rebound as well or hit that jump shot he usually does.

grndmstr_c · 11-18-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I know Brand has played center, but that was in the eastern conference and he now looks "older" for lack of a better word. His lack of offense correlates with his inability to be as effective at defense as a center. He just doesn't have his legs under him to rebound as well or hit that jump shot he usually does.

Actually, the only thing that's really dropped off is his efficiency inside 15 feet. I wouldn't have a counter to the age argument if his rebounding had dropped, but he's performing up to his usual standards there. No sign of slippage in his shot-blocking rate, either. And his productivity in both areas as of the last 82games update has been better in his limited minutes at center than in his time at PF.

At any rate, I'm in the wait until Dirk returns camp, myself. My hopes for Elton with the Mavs were always focused on his potential as a frontcourt partner for Dirk.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-18-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Actually, the only thing that's really dropped off is his efficiency inside 15 feet. I wouldn't have a counter to the age argument if his rebounding had dropped, but he's performing up to his usual standards there. No sign of slippage in his shot-blocking rate, either. And his productivity in both areas as of the last 82games update has been better in his limited minutes at center than in his time at PF.

At any rate, I'm in the wait until Dirk returns camp, myself. My hopes for Elton with the Mavs were always focused on his potential as a frontcourt partner for Dirk.

He has only grabbed more than five rebounds in one of the last five games. Maybe that is up to par with him, but I kinda expected a little more. I agree that Dirk changes things, but I'm not sold on Elton's role playing next to him. Lord only knows the exact impact Dirk will have on pretty much everyone on the team.

sike · 11-18-2012, 09:13 PM

Dirk makes DC look better by giving him a legit Elite scoring option to dump the ball into (AKA less needless dribbling I hope)

Dirk makes Mayo & Kaman better by immediately becoming the primary focal point of the opponent every night this opening up better shot opportunities.

Dirk makes Carlisle better bc now Rick won't feel the need to play mad scientist with his lineups.

Dirk makes everyone better one way or another.

dude1394 · 11-18-2012, 09:34 PM

Dirk makes sike better, alien love is quenched.
Dirk makes the board better...watching greatness at work does that.