2nd round- Utah Jazz Vs Golden State Warriors - Page 12 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 05-13-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Did Okur look scared to you? He got right back up and told Richardson where he could stick it.

Exactly. So where is all this "He could have been killed!" drama coming from?

kg_veteran · 05-13-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

The Richardson foul was vintage 80’s basketball…except back then a bench clearing brawl would have ensued. As a child of the 80’s I can’t say it bothered me much. And I have a feeling the same Mavs fans who are appalled didn’t have a problem with Cro putting Baron on is as. If you’re Okur you can’t expose yourself in that situation. He isn’t from here so he probably doesn’t know any better.

I'm not appalled by the play, but I do think it was dirty. As a child of the 80's, I agree with your recollection of things. And yes, in the 80's Richardson probably would have gotten a chance to show a lot more of his pride, because there would have been a fight.

As for Okur exposing himself, I heard Doug Collins making that point, and that sounds like a coach talking. I thought he was just doing what seemed logical. They were overplaying him, and the easiest place for him to dribble was right to the basket.

kg_veteran · 05-13-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Exactly. So where is all this "He could have been killed!" drama coming from?

Stop exaggerating. I said he could have been injured, and I stand by that. You're acting like Okur is some sort of pussy because a flagrant foul is called.

dirno2000 · 05-13-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

As for Okur exposing himself, I heard Doug Collins making that point, and that sounds like a coach talking. I thought he was just doing what seemed logical. They were overplaying him, and the easiest place for him to dribble was right to the basket.

I'm not saying he should have gone to the basket. He made the right play but you can't expose yourself. Go in hard and brace yourself for the flagrant.

kg_veteran · 05-13-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

My point is that when it came to crunch time, the Jazz didn't just kill the Warriors inside. They hit jumper after jumper after jumper.

Live by the jumper, die by the jumper? Well, yeah. And Utah just did a better job of hitting theirs.

Oh, I see. You're trying to justify the failure of Nellie ball.

There's a big difference between the shots Fisher was getting (sans the one in the corner he hit over a defender) from the shots the Warriors were missing down the stretch -- Fisher's shots were uncontested and came off of penetration.

kg_veteran · 05-13-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I'm not saying he should have gone to the basket. He made the right play but you can't expose yourself. Go in hard and brace yourself for the flagrant.

That's a fair point. Probably would have been smarter not to go into the air.

chumdawg · 05-13-2007, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Stop exaggerating. I said he could have been injured, and I stand by that. You're acting like Okur is some sort of pussy because a flagrant foul is called.

Okay. Sorry about the exaggeration. Let's put it in your words, then.

He could have landed on his head or his arm!!

rabbitproof · 05-14-2007, 12:02 AM

Pride is playing hard. That's being a sore loser.

chumdawg · 05-14-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Oh, I see. You're trying to justify the failure of Nellie ball.

There's a big difference between the shots Fisher was getting (sans the one in the corner he hit over a defender) from the shots the Warriors were missing down the stretch -- Fisher's shots were uncontested and came off of penetration.

That's exactly right. The Warriors did a horrible job of playing their game tonight. They did not get off good three-point shots. And they turned the ball over inexplicably often. They just never got into their offense.

If they had, they might have got off the good kind of three-point shots that Fisher did.

In stretches the Warriors played well tonight. But they just didn't put it all together. This is primarily because Davis had a pretty bad game.

Don't count them completely out, though. If they can nut up and win Game Five--kinda like when Finley strapped the team on his back against the Spurs in '03--well, we'll see.

kg_veteran · 05-14-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's exactly right. The Warriors did a horrible job of playing their game tonight. They did not get off good three-point shots. And they turned the ball over inexplicably often. They just never got into their offense.

If they had, they might have got off the good kind of three-point shots that Fisher did.

In stretches the Warriors played well tonight. But they just didn't put it all together. This is primarily because Davis had a pretty bad game.

Don't count them completely out, though. If they can nut up and win Game Five--kinda like when Finley strapped the team on his back against the Spurs in '03--well, we'll see.

I'm not counting them completely out -- the Jazz have to beat them. And the Jazz are an imperfect club, too, so the Warriors could steal Game 5. We all remember how close Games 1 and 2 were. That said, this was a really tough loss for your Dubs.

chumdawg · 05-14-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

That said, this was a really tough loss for your Dubs.

No question about it.

But think what a win in Game Five would do. Maybe the Dubs are at their best when the whole world is stacked against them.

kg_veteran · 05-14-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

No question about it.

But think what a win in Game Five would do. Maybe the Dubs are at their best when the whole world is stacked against them.

Maybe so, but I think what made their confidence soar against the Mavs was the fact that they were frontrunning in the series the whole way. If the Mavs win the first 2 at home, I don't think the Warriors would have sustained their enthusiasm and energy to beat them.

vjz · 05-14-2007, 12:10 AM

Are the Warriors sore losers or what? I was especially sicked by Baron's cheap shot that brought Fisher to the floor.

I am starting to hate the Warriors and they unbelievable lack of sportsmanship.

chumdawg · 05-14-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Maybe so, but I think what made their confidence soar against the Mavs was the fact that they were frontrunning in the series the whole way. If the Mavs win the first 2 at home, I don't think the Warriors would have sustained their enthusiasm and energy to beat them.

Well, if the Mavs hold serve, even energy and enthusiasm may not have been enough.

The Warriors went into that first game as extreme underdogs. (You can't get any more extreme than a team who just made the playoffs a few days ago and is facing a 67-win team...on the road.) And now the Warriors are extreme underdogs again.

I'm just saying, I won't be in the least surprised if the Dubs bring the series back to Oakland.

kg_veteran · 05-14-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm just saying, I won't be in the least surprised if the Dubs bring the series back to Oakland.

I won't either, but I don't see them winning twice in Utah.

chumdawg · 05-14-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I won't either, but I don't see them winning twice in Utah.

Yeah, it's a longshot. But the list of folks who didn't see them taking four games from Dallas is a very, very long one.

I hoped the Warriors would win this game tonight. But I also thought it would have meant a certain series win if they did. Now they are up against it. But...if they win Game Five, I think I will again like their chances in the series.

dirno2000 · 05-14-2007, 12:36 AM

Reason #4,080 that the Finals collapse hurt so much: The Utah Jazz.

They're gaining invaluable experience, they're built to handle big teams like us and they appear to be small ball proof. They also have all their core player wrapped up for the next three years.

vjz · 05-14-2007, 01:03 AM

Yup, is the West brutal or what? Your small ball teams keep getting beat by the big, bad Spurs. So, you build a team to beat the Spurs and you fall to a small-ball team. Amare goes down one year and you make it to the Finals, and...

Now, you are back to square one: build a team that will beat not only the Spurs, Rox but the Suns, Warriors and now Utah, not to mention Denver & the best team from the East!

OK, that's depressing

LonghornDub · 05-14-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Exactly. So where is all this "He could have been killed!" drama coming from?

You're getting a bit ridiculous with this chum. I usually like you a lot on here but this is a bit absurd. The foul was completely unnecessary--there's no defending it.

Henry_VIII · 05-14-2007, 08:42 AM

And once again, the run and gun gimmick is exposed. It is tempting to believe that one of these teams will eventually pull it off, but instead only disappointment remains.

Dtownsfinest · 05-14-2007, 08:45 AM

This is going the exact way I saw it. I didn't think the Warriors would win a game though. The 1st two games were close to their credit. Deron Williams is playing great. I knew he could play but had no clue he was this good. He's shaping up to be a great point guard.

MFFL · 05-14-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What was the big deal about it?

What happened to the "hard playoff foul"?

If a guy is going to try and take it in and dunk in garbage time on my home court, I'm going to let him know that sort of thing is not allowed.

And you will probably be suspended for the next game - that's not a very good way to help your team. So what's more important: making a statement or helping your team in an elimination game? Okur was smart - he put Richardson in a situation where he would be embarrassed on his home court or be suspended. Smart player vs non-smart player.

And it wasn't a "hard playoff foul". I see those in every one of the Spurs/Suns series. The Richardson foul was simple thuggery.

Flacolaco · 05-14-2007, 08:50 AM

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6808498

Quote:

Golden State may have been on the short end of the 115-101 score Sunday, but the Warriors did succeed in outdoing Utah in at least one category. Cheap shots.

Here the score was three-nothing, with the culprits being:

Al Harrington, for clubbing Carlos Boozer's head in lieu of making a play on the ball.

Baron Davis, for a gratuitous body block on Derek Fisher that wasn't seen by the refs.

And Jason Richardson, for his potentially career-threatening take-down of Mehmet Okur.
Despite their stupendous skills and their exciting brand of play, these uncalled-for assaults by the Warriors reveal what these guys really are: Bullies and front-runners.

TXS · 05-14-2007, 08:55 AM

They also missed the cheap shot by Davis on Kirilenko, took a shot to the midsection or groin in the first half. Also there was another cheap shot by Harrington in the first half on boozer after a made shot....

Triple T's · 05-14-2007, 08:59 AM

fact of the matter is the was a dirty play. the intent was to not only to send a message, but to also hurt the guy. Its amazing how a hard foul is almost always misconstrued as having pride or whatever. He made no attempt to play the ball, and he knew very well the consequences of dam near clotheslining someone going in for a dunk/layup. To make it worse, he talked smack after he did it! So if he doesn't get suspended then ill bet mark has something to say about that.

secondly, i have nothing but respect for Utah. they play the game the right way. the threes they hit were within the flow of their offense. how many times did we see GS dribble drive and then step back for a three?? i think even DC pointed that out a few times. theres a difference the the types of shots both teams were hitting and GS just fell back to earth. Anytime they seem to lose they resort to thuggishness. it just hasn't cost them yet. GS has so much more talent than to just be airing out threes like that, but thats the way nelson wants them to play. i think he has marginal control of that team at best and he might have lost it incompletely last night.

besides there more more than just a few cheap shots in that game...there is a such thing as playing hard but theres also a such thing as playing stupid. Also on a side note, i thought refs were going to be intolerant of player conduct in reference to officiating?? GS players seemed to seriously berate the officials after every single call in that game without any technicals...

one last edit...
who told stephen jackson that he could dribble??? At any time, any place, anywhere.

Henry_VIII · 05-14-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

Has anyone read the Simmons article on espn?

I agree with his analysis. Golden State has had some of the best opportunities to win and has come up short. Game 3 may be a blowout, but Game 4 could be the one to keep an eye on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Simmons

There's no way the Warriors are losing Game 3 in Oakland. It's not happening. The Jazz will need one game simply to adjust to that frenetic crowd. But I see them squeezing out another nailbiter in Game 4, then closing Golden State out at home in Game 5. The fact is, Golden State couldn't have asked for a better situation in Utah -- two close games, no Derek Fisher in Game 1, foul trouble for Deron Williams in Game 2 -- and couldn't get it done. Just don't say the Warriors choked. There's an old saying about this that involves a sword. I'll spare you the cliche.

Sorry to quote myself, but in case you missed this article, things are playing out just like Simmons predicted and for the reasons he predicted it (read to see).

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-14-2007, 09:48 AM

Whoa he must be psycho where he can read the future or somethin.

V2M · 05-14-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Whoa he must be psycho where he can read the future or somethin.

'Psychic' may be the word you're looking for... but who am I kiddin', after his ugly piece on Dirk, I'm sure 'psycho' suits him fine as well...

Darth Ape · 05-14-2007, 12:37 PM

Never count out a Don Nelson coached team. The last time Nelson took on Jerry Sloan in the playoffs, he won 3 straight after dropping the first two. The team is back to playing with no pressure. Even money says that the Warriors take the next one in Salt Lake City, come back to Oakland, even the series and set up a decisive game 7.

We beleive!

mary · 05-14-2007, 12:42 PM

alexamenos · 05-14-2007, 01:08 PM

earl campbell rocks.

vjz · 05-15-2007, 12:10 PM

Triple T's · 05-15-2007, 01:10 PM

crayola rocks

Henry_VIII · 05-15-2007, 09:45 PM

utah by 10+
gs with 40+ 3pa

chumdawg · 05-15-2007, 10:10 PM

Davis is going to own Dee Brown if he stays out there.

chumdawg · 05-15-2007, 10:43 PM

MAN, Matt Barnes is good! Throw the MLE at him!!

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-15-2007, 10:51 PM

The Warriors have shot way too many threes, and they aren't making them....

MFFL · 05-15-2007, 11:01 PM

I just turned on the game. Why wasn't Davis or Richardson suspended? Davis basically did the same thing Terry did last year and Terry was suspended. Richardson did the same thing that Stack did last year and Stack was suspended.

WTF?

Flacolaco · 05-15-2007, 11:19 PM

Baron freaking Davis. That guy is a cold blooded sniper sometimes, and other times he's just causing all kinds of trouble. He's not helping his team so far in the 2nd half.

chumdawg · 05-15-2007, 11:20 PM

Golden State is starting to look bad. I know it's a tie game...but it just doesn't look good for the Dubs.

Where did Baron Davis go?