More Shaq talk - a sensible T&D thread.

[jthig32]

Ok so Fish has an article discussing Shaq's possible desire to be a Mav next season.

This storyline is just now revving up again thanks to Shaq’s weekend on the town, during which he repeatedly told friends about the Mavs being on his wish list.

And I think it's fairly obvious Phoenix is going to try very hard to dump Shaq this offseason. They were hurting for cash and I assure you their yearly budget included at least two home playoff games which are not going to happen.

Once the offseason arrives Stack's contract becomes even more valuable than it was at the deadline. But based on several factors, I don't think I'm willing to give up Josh for Shaq any longer. And I don't think it would take that, knowing what Cleveland offered for Shaq.

So my question, would you trade Damp and Stack for Shaq during the offseason? That trade would reduce Phoenix's payroll next season by almost 10 mil of straight salary (not sure if luxury tax would be involved, I doubt it). I really think they would say yes to that trade if the economic situation is as bad as projected next season.

Now, I figure most people reading this yelled "hell yes!" when I posed the question above. But a couple things to consider:

1. Shaq is 37 freaking years old. He's had a great year, but you have to wonder if it's his last real hurrah.

2. Is Shaq really ok with not being the focus of an offense? He said all the right things in Phoenix but never really had to back up his talk. Phoenix ran everything through him this season, first because of Porter and then because of Amare getting hurt. I think he'd be fine but it's something to consider.

3. Those two contracts (Stack and Damp) have the potential to bring something with a bit more long term benefit. They really do. I know at some point you have to cash in the magic beans for something real, but in this economic climate you can't ignore the fact that those relatively unique contracts could bring back something with a similar impact for a longer period of time.

4. Shaq (as Fish points out) may very well want a two or three year contract extension. Is that something you're interested in?

Assuming Kidd is willing to sign a two or three year deal, I think I do this deal and give him the extension. If I can go to war with Shaq, Dirk, JHo, Jet and Kidd for the bulk of my minutes the next couple of seasons I think I do it. But it's not without risk.

[Zki41]

Shaq's contract expires next year, and next year is also Dampier's last year of guarenteed contract (The 2010 - 2011 he has no guarantee) which essentially makes him expiring as well?

I think getting Shaq would make Kidd stick around. Considering that Dallas has nobody other than Dirk/JET/Howard when he feels like it who can really score on a regular basis, I think there we would be no problem giving Shaq a huge piece of the offense. Dirk and Shaq don't really play in eachother's space, so they are a very compatible PF/C combination. I'd rather have a 37 year old Shaq who gives 20 points a night and rebounds than a Dampier who usually ends up on the bench and we end up playing Bass as center. Even if Shaq runs out of steam, he'd bring more to the table the Dampier does on average (Dampier occasionally has really good nights).

[Underdog]

Damp-for-Shaq?

Mark me down for: HELL YES!!!


(git 'er done yesterday!)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

1. Shaq is 37 freaking years old. He's had a great year, but you have to wonder if it's his last real hurrah.

2. Is Shaq really ok with not being the focus of an offense? He said all the right things in Phoenix but never really had to back up his talk. Phoenix ran everything through him this season, first because of Porter and then because of Amare getting hurt. I think he'd be fine but it's something to consider.

3. Those two contracts (Stack and Damp) have the potential to bring something with a bit more long term benefit. They really do. I know at some point you have to cash in the magic beans for something real, but in this economic climate you can't ignore the fact that those relatively unique contracts could bring back something with a similar impact for a longer period of time.

4. Shaq (as Fish points out) may very well want a two or three year contract extension. Is that something you're interested in?

1. 37-year-old Shaq > 33-year-old Damp

2. Was Shaq the center of the offense in Miami?

3. Screw contracts - win a ring NOW!!! (or let Dirk walk...)

4. I'll give Shaq my first-born if it means having a post presence of any kind next to Dirk...

[SMC0007]

I 'll buy that.

[jthig32]

Again, it's not so much about whether you'd rather have Shaq than Damp. That's obvious. It's if you think there's something better out there that you can get for Stack and Damp, separately or together.

Also, for those that think late 4th quarter offense is important needs fixing...this isn't helping that. Shaq will not see the floor in the final minutes of close games very often.

[Dirkenstien]

Yeah I'd do it and I think this would help tremendously with bringing Kidd back. I could care less about long term right now. Our window is next season and maybe the season after that.

[left texas]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah I'd do it and I think this would help tremendously with bringing Kidd back. I could care less about long term right now. Our window is next season and maybe the season after that.

Yea, we need a championship and we need is soon!

[DavidDaMonkey]

In all honesty, I'm most excited about this because of how much fun it would be. It will make things just all the more interesting if we pull this off and will make next season one of the most anticipated seasons in a long time.

[MX425]

Who else do you realisticaly see the Mav's being able to get for Damp/Stack. Obviously any trade that includes Damp leaves us staring at a bigger hole at center then we have now and that needs to be addressed. So with that said what other center could we find out there that would provide the best tools for us. I don't know how many centers there will really be on the market.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by MX425

Who else do you realisticaly see the Mav's being able to get for Damp/Stack. Obviously any trade that includes Damp leaves us staring at a bigger hole at center then we have now and that needs to be addressed. So with that said what other center could we find out there that would provide the best tools for us. I don't know how many centers there will really be on the market.

There is always Tyson Chandler. I think he could do well with Kidd. As well as Shaq? Who knows. But I do know that Chandler is what, 11 years younger than Shaq? That can't be discounted.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Also, can't you picture Shaq standing up and saying "Remember this—I’m going to bring a championship to Dallas. I promise."

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

There is always Tyson Chandler. I think he could do well with Kidd. As well as Shaq? Who knows. But I do know that Chandler is what, 11 years younger than Shaq? That can't be discounted.

Tyson Chandler would still be my #1 choice at the 5, but I don't see New Orleans doing us any favors unless they're REALLY desperate to shed salary (and I'm not buying the whole "economy" bit after the lack of money-saving moves this past trade deadline...)

[MX425]

I agree that Chandler would be great. What does anyone think the odds would be of Troy Murphy? He is a pretty versitile center who averaged almost 12 boards a game this year and Indiana has talked about how they are in trouble. Maybe a damp/stack for either Jarret Jack or TJ Ford and Murphy. Use the MLE to sign a SG.

[TheMaverick]

Shaq would definitely help out Cuban's wallet, that's for sure (through merchandising, advertising, etc.) With that being said, maybe Cuban will go out and try for another home run via a Howard/Bass trade.

[Zki41]

Shaq would be rested this off season.

[bernardos70]

Probably not that good, he might just eat his fat ass to death, he hasn't missed that many playoffs.

[dalmations202]

Just a thought.

Shaq, Hollins
Dirk, Bass
AK47, Singleton, Shan Foster
Terry, Wright, Green
Kidd, JJB


Resign Hollins, Bass, Singleton, Green
Damp/Stack for Shaq ($$ thing)
Carroll/Josh/this years pick for AK47 (not sure Utah does this, but a shooter and Josh and a pick for AK47)
Let Williams and George go.

Find another defensive minded FA backup PG.

You would have a creator in Kidd, true shooter in JET, defender and clean the board guy in AK47, Dirk is Dirk, and Shaq controlling the paint. Backups have a defensive minded SG, a waterbug PG, energy at the SF, midrange guy at the PF, and an athletic C to back up Shaq.

IF you could get the chemistry right, this team would have the talent to beat any team.

It wouldn't be half way, IMO -- they would either totally bust or totally WIN big.

[jthig32]

I think you're drastically over valuing Kirilenko. He's making huge money the next two seasons and I'm not really sure why you'd rather have him over Josh.

As to Chandler...I dunno. He'd be more beneficial long term but Shaq is a MUCH bigger impact in the short term in my opinion.

[tcat075]

I don't think that Shaq for Josh is a good trade.

I'll understand if we trade Josh, but we need to trade Josh someone who isn't 37 years old. If we can't get Shaq with some combination of Damp/Stack and picks/money/bench player, then I'm not sure he's the right way to go.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Tyson Chandler would still be my #1 choice at the 5, but I don't see New Orleans doing us any favors unless they're REALLY desperate to shed salary (and I'm not buying the whole "economy" bit after the lack of money-saving moves this past trade deadline...)

Aren't they?

[TheMaverick]

dalm has wanted AK for years now =p

[eyedentifyme]

We can trade Stackhouse/Wright/Williams/Dampier and our 1st rounder for Shaq. We then use our full MLE on Raymond Felton or Ramon Sessions. We re-sign Kidd, Green, Singleton, Hollins, and Bass. We let Devean George go. Go and sign another undrafted power forward like Brandon Bass who can play some center also.

Roster:

PG: Kidd, (Felton or Sessions), Barea
SG: Howard, Green
SF: Singleton, Foster
PF: Dirk, Bass, Undrafted PF
C: Shaq, Hollins,

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

We can trade Stackhouse/Wright/Williams/Dampier and our 1st rounder for Shaq. We then use our full MLE on Raymond Felton or Ramon Sessions. We re-sign Kidd, Green, Singleton, Hollins, and Bass. We let Devean George go. Go and sign another undrafted power forward like Brandon Bass who can play some center also.

Roster:

PG: Kidd, (Felton or Sessions), Barea
SG: Howard, Green
SF: Singleton, Foster
PF: Dirk, Bass, Undrafted PF
C: Shaq, Hollins,

Why would you send Wright and Williams when you don't have to? It would do nothing but decrease Phoenix's savings.

[eyedentifyme]

To get something, you have to give up something in potentially good players like Wright and Williams despite Phoenix not saving any money.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

In all honesty, I'm most excited about this because of how much fun it would be. It will make things just all the more interesting if we pull this off and will make next season one of the most anticipated seasons in a long time.

Agreed. Shaq is the type of guy to re-energize a fan base. The Mavs need that IMO. Plus, he is a lot better option than Damp.

I disagree with Jthig about Shaq not being in the line-up at the end of games. Explain that exactly?

The real question is whether Cuban will take on the 21.5 million (which will really be 43 million with tax) just to get him.

[Thomas86]

Why does everybody like Andrei Kirilenko?...I don't think Kirilenko and Dirk even like each other plus why would the Jazz help the Mavs out like that?......anyway I would only offer Damp and Stackhouse for Shaq because Howard for Shaq would be like trading Kidd for Harris again, If we get Shaq then were gonna have to put alot of shooters around him because Shaq get's alot of double teams.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Yeah I was messaging shaq about this on his twitter.

[left texas]

Originally Posted by MaVs 41 BaLler

Yeah I was messaging shaq about this on his twitter.

That almost sounds nasty.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Agreed. Shaq is the type of guy to re-energize a fan base. The Mavs need that IMO. Plus, he is a lot better option than Damp.

I disagree with Jthig about Shaq not being in the line-up at the end of games. Explain that exactly?

The real question is whether Cuban will take on the 21.5 million (which will really be 43 million with tax) just to get him.

Shaq has always been taken out at the end of a lot of close games because of his inablity to hit free throws.

In a key offensive possession if he catches the ball in good position the defense will just put him on the line.

And the trade I proposed would "only" increase payroll by 10 mil (doubled to 20 mil for luxury tax). Damp's 10 mil going out offsets Shaq's 20 mil.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

dalm has wanted AK for years now =p

Yes I have. Not him specifically, but his talents.

Dirk is an offensive guy. He likes to play outside, which is his strength. He plays OK defense, but he really isn't a shot blocker, nor is he a strong on the ball defender. He can guard most PF's though, but he really plays the SF on offense. This is why he is such a problem for most teams.

AK is a defensive guy. He is a nasty off the ball defender, who can guard SF, but isn't destroyed if they switch with a big. Offensively he likes to play inside and clean the glass, etc. He plays more like a PF on offense when he works 15' and in, but he can step out a little. He is more natural cutting and inside though. Look at how he played before Boozer.

So, Dirk plays the SF on offense and the PF on defense. AK plays the SF on defense and the PF on offense.

I have no clue if they like each other, and I have no idea IF or why any teams makes any trades. I just like the idea of Dirk and AK playing next to each other. Add to that Shaq, and they seem nasty.

Dirk at the high elbow, Kidd pushing when he can. Terry at the three. AK slashing backside. Shaq on the low post working frontside with Dirk, and back cutting with AK and Kidd and Terry spotted up.

[eyedentifyme]

If we could get AK47, Shaq, and a bigger-than-Barea-quick-athletic-defensive-backup point guard, then we will be set next year for a championship run. We should keep Green around also at least for his attack the basket and create his own shot abilities we would lose from shipping out Howard. If we can't get Ramon Sessions or Raymond Felton, maybe we can give Charlotte some cash to get point guard Sean Singletary from them. You can never have enough talent.

Terry/Kidd/AK47/Dirk/Shaq
Barea/Wright/Singleton/Bass/Hollins
Green/Ramon Sessions? or Raymond Felton? or Trevor Ariza? or Shannon Brown? or Shawn Marion?

Williams/Sean Singletary?/Shan Foster? or Reyshawn Terry? or Rawle Marshall?

Another Guard worth trying to get is Shannon Brown from the LA Lakers who is a free agent also.

Shannon Brown:

12 Shannon Brown Los Angeles Lakers


Position: SG
Born: 11/29/85
Height: 6-4 / 1,93
Weight: 205 lbs. / 93,0 kg.
College: Michigan State '07
Pretty strong and incredibly athletic... Aggressive... Has improved his jump shot a little bit.

Sean Singletary:

[TheMaverick]

yes... name AK47 and Shaq, then include Gerald Green in the discussion

wtf?

[Dirkenstien]

Shaq rumors to Dallas is also being reported on SI.com now.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...de?eref=fromSI

[TheMaverick]

via Mavs DMN blog:

The Mavericks are looking to make even a bigger off-season splash than Shaq.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

The Mavericks are looking to make even a bigger off-season splash than Shaq.

I'll believe it when I see it - this team hasn't done squat since blowing the Finals against Miami (trading Harris for Kidd was a wash *at best* and certainly hasn't brought us any closer to being a title contender again...)

[nikeball]

Sigh. We are going to be a team full of old men next year. If it brings us a 'ship I am fine with it, but certain teams in this league have definitely gotten stronger. Shaq does not equal KG. He will not have nearly the impact that so many people think he will have. Also without the Sun's training staff he will be hurt and lumbering around most of the season.

[jthig32]

I actually agree that they're looking to make an even bigger splash. As I said before, if the economy shakes out like most suggest it will Stack's contract is going to be really valuable, and Damp is really value and has the potential to be ridiculously valuable NEXT offseason.

Oh, and a big "screw you" to whoever tagged this thread.

[Flacolaco]

I don't know if you heard Followill on with Bob and Dan yesterday thig, but I got the impression he's thinking along the same lines: That the Mavs will have to find value, or take advantage of teams trying to dump salary BEFORE the whole 2010 deal, because the Mavs aren't likely to be big players in that. And I agree. People should not hang their hats on 2010.

As for Shaq, I just wonder when he breaks down for good. It sure would be fun to have him in town, just to see what he and Corby would get in to.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I don't know if you heard Followill on with Bob and Dan yesterday thig, but I got the impression he's thinking along the same lines: That the Mavs will have to find value, or take advantage of teams trying to dump salary BEFORE the whole 2010 deal, because the Mavs aren't likely to be big players in that. And I agree. People should not hang their hats on 2010.

As for Shaq, I just wonder when he breaks down for good. It sure would be fun to have him in town, just to see what he and Corby would get in to.

I caught the tale end of the segment and was pleased to hear what he had to say.

I'm really looking forward to this offseason.