More Shaq talk - a sensible T&D thread. - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tcat075 · 04-11-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Hence, the cherry-on-top in addition to Shaq (whoever that might be...)

Alright, okay, I'm sold.

Not completely, but if we could get a shooting/defending guard to help (Not sure if Raja Bell is available, but someone like him: career 41% 3PT shooter and a good perimeter defender) I think we're a really good team.

Again, my only concerns is that Shaq gets too old before we win it all. But I can guarentee that Cuban would risk getting older for a legit shot at a title (or at least, what he thinks is a legit shot at a title).

Dirkadirkastan · 04-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

But I can guarentee that Cuban would risk getting older for a legit shot at a title (or at least, what he thinks is a legit shot at a title).

Gee, where did you get that idea?

BGMaverick9 · 04-11-2009, 11:21 PM

Two things when I think about Shaq:

Phoenix was either so far gone on the idea of defense that the idea of Shaq's interior presence didn't matter at all...or it was a bunch of bull. I would say that it was the fact that Phoenix didn't give a flip about defense.

Health, did the Phoenix training staff figure out how to fix injury-prone players? Look at him and Hill, they pretty much made it through the year and didn't have major setbacks. If he was here, how could we make sure that would be able to happen again?

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 04-12-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Health, did the Phoenix training staff figure out how to fix injury-prone players? Look at him and Hill, they pretty much made it through the year and didn't have major setbacks. If he was here, how could we make sure that would be able to happen again?

Im pretty sure it was just luck unless they have some unknown incredible training program. But then how do you explain Amare always being injured. It was just luck.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 04-12-2009, 12:55 AM

Meant to post something else elsewhere.

alby · 04-12-2009, 01:22 AM

Amare's fault for not wearing Horace Grant goggles.

dalger · 04-12-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd/Barea
Wright/JET
Josh/Singleton
Dirk/Bass
Shaq/Hollins

I think that alone could be a contender, barring injuries...

(and Cuban wants a cherry-on-top - if he can swing it, we could grab a ring before the 2010 sweepstakes!)

But how would we able to swing that nice little cherry if we had already used our two most valuable contracts for Shaq? MLE?

While I have no doubt that we would be a better team with him next season, I still hope that Shaq would only be plan B. Something like Chandler or Kaman plus a capable SF/SG to make it a JET/Josh/Wright/Mr. X rotation sounds more intriguing to me and could allow us to be competitive even beyond next season. Additionally, we'd still have the MLE.

Shaq could "lose it" any day or develop health issues and potentially become a free agent after next season which could turn into a worst-case scenario as we wouldn't have any contracts left to use other than Josh's whose production/salary ratio is still quite nice.

With that said, I wouldn't wanna be in Donnie's or Mark's shoes this coming offseason. It looks as if we could really turn our supposed "over the hill" team into a contender with a few smart moves which must be quite the pressure.

tcat075 · 04-12-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Meant to post something else elsewhere.

Bull. You were just trying to up your post count.

jthig32 · 04-12-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Health, did the Phoenix training staff figure out how to fix injury-prone players? Look at him and Hill, they pretty much made it through the year and didn't have major setbacks. If he was here, how could we make sure that would be able to happen again?

FWIW, HIll and Shaq have both given credit to Phoenix's unique style from their trainers for their improved health. There's definitely something there.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 04-12-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Bull. You were just trying to up your post count.

Post count? you've been here a year and a half less than me and almost have as many posts.

BGMaverick9 · 04-12-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

FWIW, HIll and Shaq have both given credit to Phoenix's unique style from their trainers for their improved health. There's definitely something there.

It makes you wonder what the hell are they doing in Phoenix? Those two guys and Nash...they really didn't have setbacks when it seemed like they were destined to break down.

So the question would be? What do you do if your Shaq/Cuban? Buy them?

MX425 · 04-13-2009, 10:27 AM

Ok,

I am going to try and really work this one through
Free Agents -

RESTRICTED
Ryan Hollins

UNRESTRICTED
Brandon Bass
Devean George (P)
Gerald Green
Jason Kidd
James Singleton

I think that we try and keep Hollins, Bass, Kidd, Green, Singleton. That leaves us with only 1 open roster spot unless we manage a 2 for 1 trade of some sort. We have a MLE, Bi-annual exception, and a draft pick. We somehow need to find a way to fit three players into one roster spot while also keeping in mind we prob don't want a rotation any deeper then 9 players on a regualr basis.

To look at a depth chart we would have

Kidd(if signed) / Barea
Wright/Jet/Green(if signed)/Carroll
Howard/Singleton(if signed)/Williams/Stack
Dirk/Bass(if signed)
Dampier/Hollins

We can Break our team into 4 tiers I think. Tier A is the most expendable and players I think should be traded to aquire assets in the offseason.

We can consider Stack gone so that might throw a wrench into where we have needs but basically we need to look at which players here we truthfully would be willing to include in packages to other teams. I love Bass, but see more upside in Singleton with his shooting range(Obviously this would have to be a sign and trade). Carroll is expendable too and should be shopped with his contract being structured as it is. Then Shawne Williams is also very expenable witha contract that expires in 2010.

Tier A - Stack, Bass, Carroll, Williams

Tier B would be the players I would trade but only if the other team was asking strongly for these players to finish a deal.

This would be Green. I see a lot of upside here and again this would have to be a sign then trade. Singleton, if the other team desired him more then Bass. Wright because I see having upside and for 1.8 mil per yr a pretty affordale backup SG.

Tier B - Green, Bass, Wright

Tier C are players who I should be fixtures in a trade or players how have a cost benifit for us and should only be moved if something big can come in return.

Tier C is Howard because he is an all-star and has the ability to be a difference maker. Dampier because centers are hard to come by in this league and he has a favorable contract. Hollins because of his upside and his contract. Barea because he is a cheap Backup PG with some unique skills. This is where is gets harder. Kidd. This would be a tough sale because he probably doesn't reisgn just to be shipped off. If we re-sign him he is ours at least until the all-star break.

Tier C - Howard, Damp, Barea, Hollins, Kidd

Tier D are the players that would have to be included in a Trade for a franchise cornerstone.

Dirk is obviously at the top of this list, but I also included Terry in this List. his contract is not favorable for a trade and I think his ability to come off the bench and score and just do whatever the team asks is extremely undervalued. He (in my opinion) is the heart of this team.

Now I am sure there will be dis-agreements about who should and shouldn't be traded but let's use this as discussion foder. I will try and think about players who can be attained for these pieces later as I have wasted enough of my work day on this so far.

discuss.

FreshJive · 04-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Two things when I think about Shaq:

Phoenix was either so far gone on the idea of defense that the idea of Shaq's interior presence didn't matter at all...or it was a bunch of bull. I would say that it was the fact that Phoenix didn't give a flip about defense.

They traded Marion for Shaq, and Bell-Diaw for Jrich. That's two trades where they traded defense for offense all to become more conventional.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-14-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX425

Tier A - Stack, Bass, Carroll, Williams

Tier B - Green, Bass, Wright

What?

SMC0007 · 04-14-2009, 07:14 PM

Well that just ruins everything.:/

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 04-14-2009, 09:01 PM

So Bass is tier A-

mavs777 · 04-15-2009, 01:05 AM

Wallace+Shaq= Champion contender

Underdog · 04-15-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Wallace+Shaq= Champion contender

Which players do we lose to make this happen and how do we plug our new holes?

MX425 · 04-15-2009, 10:30 AM

tier B singleton. Sorry.

Zki41 · 04-15-2009, 11:33 AM

Which Wallace?

DirkFTW · 04-15-2009, 01:25 PM

William Wallace please

mavs777 · 04-15-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

Which Wallace?

Gerald

mavs777 · 04-15-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Which players do we lose to make this happen and how do we plug our new holes?

hopefully someone sees the value in JJB, Singleton,Greene, Bass, and or draft picks, also howard is expendable

DavidDaMonkey · 04-15-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

hopefully someone sees the value in JJB, Singleton,Greene, Bass, and or draft picks, also howard is expendable

FWIW, I think we've increased the trade value of almost every member of our bench.

sefant77 · 04-15-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Wallace+Shaq= Champion contender

Charlotte wont trade him, they wanna make the playoffs. Unless you take a looot of bad contracts.

darkwitzki · 05-21-2009, 02:07 AM

Shaq!

dude1394 · 05-21-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Two things when I think about Shaq:

Phoenix was either so far gone on the idea of defense that the idea of Shaq's interior presence didn't matter at all...or it was a bunch of bull. I would say that it was the fact that Phoenix didn't give a flip about defense.

Health, did the Phoenix training staff figure out how to fix injury-prone players? Look at him and Hill, they pretty much made it through the year and didn't have major setbacks. If he was here, how could we make sure that would be able to happen again?

I've wondered about this as well. You sort of have to throw in Nashie also into that mix. With respect to Amare it's been one freak thing after another, not muscle things.

Willstar · 06-01-2009, 07:52 AM

get shaq + someone else. and we have a shot for the title next year.
i just hope dirk doesnt have to leave the nba without a title :<.

Willstar · 06-01-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Post count? you've been here a year and a half less than me and almost have as many posts.

lets see im here like 3 years longer then you and you have 26 times more posts then me!

cool

LBCmaverick · 06-03-2009, 12:51 PM

We should get gerald green to play more time, maybe hes our slasher were looking for?

ty · 06-03-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBCmaverick

We should get gerald green to play more time, maybe hes our slasher were looking for?

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Kidd Karma · 06-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Shaq would be a nice piece. I was able to send through Stackhouse and Howard for Shaq. But I wouldn't make that move until I have another deal on the table....Dampier for Gerald Wallace and Raja Bell. Charlotte does that because the owner is in sell mode and to feaibly get a sale done, you get rid of long term obligations.....Wallace. Dampiers deal is not guaranteed beyond next season. Dropping the salary, Wallace and Bell combine for about 14 million and Damp's pulling in what 12 million, that's an instant 2 million dollar savings for the Bobcats, in addition to ridding themselves of long term obligations.

I think the money incentive of Stack's contract plus the 25% rule, the Suns would be shaving almost 10 million with this deal instantly.

After that, you still have your MLE to work with, given Shaq's free throw shooting, I would go after Rasheed Wallace as a backup at the 4-5 spots. I still would try to add either Matt Barnes or Grant Hill with the vet minimum.

I would try to resign Bass, Singleton, and Hollins:

SF Wallace, Hill or Barnes, George
PF Dirk, Bass, Singleton
C Shaq, Wallace, Hollins
PG Kidd, Barea, minimum signing or #22 pick
SG Bell, Terry, Wright

Mavsfan4ever · 06-24-2009, 06:42 PM

At this point in time what do we have to offer for Shaq that Cleveland doesn't? Would a trading Damp/Stack and a first round pick be worth it?