The Mavs need a slasher sg/sf more than anything

[TheMaverick]

Kidd gets into the paint.

[cinemablend]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

If a guy can't beat his defender, he doesn't get into the paint. Jason Kidd can't beat his defender. He doesn't get into the paint. Pretty cut and dry.

Only one example, but up above you just admitted that Kidd backs down smaller point guards to get in the paint. Soo... you're arguing against yourself. Running fast isn't the only way to get in the paint, I assume you know that?

Wow. I'm trying really hard to respect you as a poster, but you're making it very hard. The "erica" bit is just f*cking stupid. It's not clever. It's not witty. It's not funny. It doesn't illustrate a point. It doesn't add anything to your argument. It's just stupid. It makes you look bad. Second, if you honestly believe that we're better off starting Bass at center, then you are retarded. And I don't mean that in a mockingly insulting, sarcastic way. I mean that in all seriousness. You are literally mentally retarded if you believe that.

Ignoring this because it has no value and is generally nothing but random, off topic personal insults meant to bully me into giving in so you can seem right even though you have no point. Nice try.

Give me names. I'd love to have a center who can score in the post, but give me names of people who are available and are an actual upgrade over Dampier. If you haven't noticed, the center position is the shallowest in the league. I'll even start you off by narrowing down a bit. Sheed and Chandler don't count. I'll even go ahead and scratch Shaq off that list because he's nowhere near worth what we'd have to give up for him.

Go look at just about every thread on this site on the subject and you'll see plenty of names. I know for a fact that you've read those threads, so I have no idea why you're pretending like you haven't. While we're at it I see no reason to scratch Shaq (or for that matter Chandler) off the list just because of some assumption you've pulled out of your ass. It's certainly going to be a lot easier to get Shaq if we don't waste our assets getting an SG, which is my entire point.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Only one example, but up above you just admitted that Kidd backs down smaller point guards to get in the paint. Soo... you're arguing against yourself. Running fast isn't the only way to get in the paint, I assume you know that?

Actually, it more or less is, as far as initiating the offense goes. It's just about the most important skill for a guard to have. A guy with no scoring skills backing his defender down is not an effective way to initiate the offense. And yes I did acknowledge that he posts up, but if you read it again you'll see that I said it's extremely rare. So okay, I'll give you that Kidd gets into the paint about once in a blue moon. And even when he does, it's not very useful because he can't draw the defense.

A point guard that can't beat his man off the dribble is sort of like a big man who can't rebound. It is an absolutely glaring weakness, and can be fatal (as it has been for so many years now) unless you compensate for it. That's why we need a new SG as much as or more than a center. We DESPERATELY need a perimeter player that can get to the basket. There's no way we're gonna be able to compete for a championship without one.

Ignoring this because it has no value and is generally nothing but random, off topic personal insults meant to bully me into giving in so you can seem right even though you have no point. Nice try.

There was no personal insult at all, nor an attempt to bully you. It applies to everyone. And there certainly is a point. Anyone who believes that we're better off starting Bass than Dampier is straight up retarded. Small lineups will get you slaughtered on the glass. Any Mavs fan should know that all too well. Small ball has cost us more than one playoff series.

Your attitude regarding Dampier is what I have a problem with. It's completely unfounded and has no business in an intelligent discussion. The "Erica" bit is f*cking stupid. You're taking a shit on a player and you have no basis for doing so. We had this same argument in the "What Dirk needs" thread. Your Damp-hate is not worthy material for a rational debate about basketball. Your argument basically consists of calling him Erica and whining "he can't catch the ball!!!" That's what I take issue with. You don't have to like Dampier. I don't expect you do. You can criticize him all day, and that's fine. I'll even join you. We can have a good-natured, thoughtful, complex discussion about the facets of his game. But referring to him as "Erica" serves no purpose whatsoever other than to make you look juvenile. It discredits your entire argument and you as a poster. It reminds me of the idiot trolls who used to rant about how useless Shawn Bradley was, even when he was leading the league in blocks and was clearly an effective player.

Go look at just about every thread on this site on the subject and you'll see plenty of names. I know for a fact that you've read those threads, so I have no idea why you're pretending like you haven't. While we're at it I see no reason to scratch Shaq (or for that matter Chandler) off the list just because of some assumption you've pulled out of your ass. It's certainly going to be a lot easier to get Shaq if we don't waste our assets getting an SG, which is my entire point.

I'm not pretending anything. I have read those threads and the only names I've seen that I would consider hands down upgrades over Dampier are Camby and Kaman. We're not really likely to get either of them, but I have my fingers crossed. (Kaman is a long shot, Camby is a virtual impossibility.) Chandler and Sheed are lateral moves or marginal upgrades at very best. Those guys are not going to be the difference between competing for a championship or not competing for one. You could even argue that they would be slight downgrades (especially Sheed.) And anyone who hates Dampier as much as you has no right whatsoever to tout Chandler. Chandler practically is Dampier. Sure, he runs the court a lot better, but his offensive skills are just as bad if not worse (Good god, you think Damp has "hands of stone?). With Chandler your helpside defense gets significantly better, but your man-to-man defense gets a bit worse, rebounding stays about the same. I'll grant you that his athleticism makes him a more versatile defender, and so I'll consider him a very slight upgrade, but not nearly enough of one to take us to another level. We'd still have no interior offense. Worst of all, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 30-40 games. As for Shaq, he's just not worth what we'd have to give up to get him. Not even close.

[erdubya]

We're wasting Kidd's talent. We need some back door action (no eminem), interior passing, aleyoops, etc... basically all the types of passes we saw Denver make on us. Instead of exterior passing to jumpshooters, I'd like to see kidd's assist numbers increase by getting us some thoroughbreds in here. If only G Green could play with better control... it's gonna be an interesting offseason for sure!