Josh Smith Anyone?

[walter]

The Hawks have reportedly been working hard to find a taker for forward Josh Smith in recent weeks.

Atlanta is in a tough situation financially, as both Mike Bibby and Marvin Williams are free agents.

Smith has a history of disagreements with coach Mike Woodson, and would likely be coveted on the trade market.

However, there is a $6 million trade kicker attached to his contract, which could scare some teams off.

"You are going to see very few owners willing to do things like that anymore," one GM said. "I'm not saying he's impossible to trade. There are a few owners like Paul Allen, James Dolan, Mark Cuban and maybe Daniel Gilbert who would pay the money. But there aren't many."

Maybe a package featuring Josh for Smith??



http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...de_josh_smith/

[SMC0007]

He makes too much to come off the bench here in Big D.

[mavs777]

He would start at the three, but he makes too many bonehead plays, no thanks

[Robillion]

I would love to have him, but.. even though I was for such a trade not too long ago, I wouldnt trade J Ho for him.

[mac222b]

For Stack and Carroll sure

[MavsX]

dooooo it

[sefant77]

We would definatly need Kidd to stay here too. Smith needs a creator that delivers him the ball in the right spots.

Straight up with Howard i dont know, Howard can create his own shot much better.

For everyone else (Stack/Pick/Barea/Wright etc) i fly over from germany and carry him to Dallas.

[alby]

I love the guy, but we all saw how limited he is as a player during this year's playoff run (after signing his big extension last summer).

[mavs777]

TURK opted out, assuming Howard is indeed as good as gone they should go after him

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mavs777

He would start at the three, but he makes too many bonehead plays, no thanks

Oh so Howard moves to the bench?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Oh so Howard moves to the bench?

Obviously assuming he gets traded

[ty]

If it was possible, I would trade Josh for him WITHOUT A DOUBT.

[alby]

With Kidd, Smith is definitely > Howard

so yes, he would be relegated to the bench (a role I think fits him perfectly).

[SMC0007]

I think I disagree, Smith has no outside shot, at least when Jho is open for 3 there is fear and a run out at him on defense, with Smith they laugh and point at him. So when Kidd penetrates and kicks...well I take that back Kidd doesn't penetrate. N/m I lost my train of thought. Offense=Jho, Defense=Smith.

[ty]

An outside shot is one thing that we need to stop focusing on for this team.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ty

An outside shot is one thing that we need to stop focusing on for this team.

Well I think the lack of consistent outside shooters hurts this team.

Actually having capable perimiter shooters is different than just focusing on jumpshot after jumpshots like our team tends too.

[stewartj]

Both Smith and Howard have like 1.2/1 assist to turn over ratios. They're both boneheads, but I think Smith's usage is higher with Atlanta. If his stats in Dallas were anything like in Atlanta, he's going to get you more boards, steals, blocks, and assists, with about the same fg%. I think if he was being set up by Kidd and accepted a second scoring option role behind Dirk (or even third behind Terry) you would probably see his field goal and three point percentages go up.

Also, he's a great off the ball defender, which we need desperately, and I think when he focuses (ie playoffs and 4th quarters) he could be a good on the ball defender for 2's, 3's, and 4's.

One other thing, I wonder how the change of scenery would affect both Joshes. Atlanta is supposed to be one of the big party cities for athletes. I bet Howard would do something stupid there eventually. Smith might show some signs of getting smarter when taken away from temptation and given some veteran leadership for the first time in his career.

If you could get him for anything less than Josh, I'd do it in a second. If it was for Josh straight up, I'd do that too, but it would only be a light upgrade.

[SMC0007]

[QUOTE=stewartj;1006654]

I think if he was being set up by Kidd and accepted a second scoring option role behind Dirk (or even third behind Terry) you would probably see his field goal and three point percentages go up.

Kidd isn't going to do anything for Smiths shooting % any more than Bibby did and I would be afraid if he were our 2nd scoring option. Meaning we wouldn't be very potent at all if he were our 2nd option. He can't really create his own shot very well unless he already has the ball near the paint then he's fine but he isn't going to break down his man and get us points when the game slows down. Kidd bringing the ball down in the half court set wouldn't be tossing it over to Smith like he has JHo to create offense.

Also, he's a great off the ball defender, which we need desperately, and I think when he focuses (ie playoffs and 4th quarters) he could be a good on the ball defender for 2's, 3's, and 4's.

Any SG he can guard well is probably coming off some slack teams bench. I don't see him guarding any significant SG.


[QUOTE]If you could get him for anything less than Josh, I'd do it in a second. If it was for Josh straight up, I'd do that too, but it would only be a light upgrade.QUOTE]


Seeing that whoever trades for Smith has to pay him 6 million immediately, I wouldn't look for him to be going anywhere, especially here givin that we already have one of the best PF's in the game.

[ty]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Well I think the lack of consistent outside shooters hurts this team.

Actually having capable perimiter shooters is different than just focusing on jumpshot after jumpshots like our team tends too.

Our problem has always been points in the paint, no?

You wouldn't be saying that if Jet did something in the playoffs last year.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by ty

Our problem has always been points in the paint, no?

You wouldn't be saying that if Jet did something in the playoffs last year.

Plate spinning.

We had great outside shooting and zero inside game not too long ago. Now we still have VERY limited inside game, but much worse perimiter shooting. We dropped a plate somewhere along the way... We needed more shooting than JET imo. We needed the SG to produce much better, drives and outside shooting.

[alby]

Our team would improve if we did Smith for Howard straight up, without a doubt

[SMC0007]

I thought that during last years 1st round series and vs Boston....but not so much now.

[dirno2000]

Here's an excerpt from Hollinger's recap of Smith's 07-08 season. I picked this out because the main criticism I hear regarding Howard is that he too often falls in love with his jump shot.

2007-08 season: Smith is an All-Star caliber talent, and might have been tabbed for the game last season if somebody had grabbed him by the lapels and shaken him while yelling "STOP TAKING OUTSIDE SHOTS," and not quit until he agreed.

There are worse shooters in the league than Smith, but they know it and don't shoot. Smith is a fairly bad shooter but converts just frequently enough that it encourages him to keep launching, so any time he's left open from outside he fires away. Let's check out the results, shall we?

Smith made 30.4 percent of his long 2-pointers last season, the second-worst mark in the league among players with at least 100 attempts. At least there was symmetry to it: on 2-pointers that weren't layups, he was the worst player from the left side of the floor (28.0 percent) and the second-worst on the right side (29.1 percent); if we include all 2-pointers that weren't layups, only two players were worse than his 28.9 percent, and Smith had more than three times as many attempts as either of them.

In fact, among players with at least 150 attempts on non-layup 2-pointers he was the only one to make fewer than 30 percent. It's not like he was having an off year either -- Smith only made 30.6 percent of his non-layup 2-pointers the year before.

Wait, there's more. Smith also took 99 3-pointers and made just 25 of them. That was -- you guessed it -- the worst percentage of any player who attempted at least 80.

Like Cuban said in the Galloway interview, sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

[SMC0007]

^Must spread.

[foglemann]

I'm sorry, but for a team that is built on players that play on the perimeter, like ATL and the Mavs, your going to have guys taking bad shots. BUT, ATL doesn't have one of the best players in NBA history carrying the load. If Josh is considered a good fit for Dirk, make that 10 fold for Smith. The guy is THE best off the ball guy in the league, only competition is Camby. We all wanted AK-47 back in the day, there's no difference with J. Smith. If we can get him to concentrate on his on the ball defense, I don't see the down side. Plus he's only 24, to Josh's 29.

Oh, and if it would be as easy as a Howard for Josh swap, we still have the Stack contract, Damp, whatever else to fill in the holes.

Now if we could somehow get Joe to come over too...

[tybrock]

I could definitely see Smith coming to Dallas. If he could be had for less than Josh than it would be hard to pass up. Basically, the Hawks want to save money for their re-signings, but would probably still want some talent they could use. I'm thinking Stack, S&T Bass, and our 1st should get it done. The money they save from Stack should help them. Bass could very well become their starting PF. I don't think they will do it for just those two so I threw in the first round pick. However, if that is the case then I would want Acie Law as well. We still get a young PG Kidd can work with. Atlanta has two 1st rounds and can draft a PG to replace him. This would then just open up our biggest trading piece in Howard to go get a VC or whatever.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by foglemann

I'm sorry, but for a team that is built on players that play on the perimeter, like ATL and the Mavs, your going to have guys taking bad shots. BUT, ATL doesn't have one of the best players in NBA history carrying the load. If Josh is considered a good fit for Dirk, make that 10 fold for Smith. The guy is THE best off the ball guy in the league, only competition is Camby. We all wanted AK-47 back in the day, there's no difference with J. Smith. If we can get him to concentrate on his on the ball defense, I don't see the down side. Plus he's only 24, to Josh's 29.

Oh, and if it would be as easy as a Howard for Josh swap, we still have the Stack contract, Damp, whatever else to fill in the holes.

Now if we could somehow get Joe to come over too...

Can't agree with any of this.

Even if I could is it worth having to pay him 6 MM? Imo no.

" The issue is the whopping $6 million trade kicker attached to his contract. The trade kicker essentially would require the team that trades for Smith to pay him the $6 million immediately.

[alby]

You cannot compare Smith to Howard. They are in completely different schemes, with completely different coaching, with completely different personnel. Let's just say on offense, they are a wash--defensively, there's not even a question.

[dirno2000]

Did you just say you couldn't compare Smith and Howard then immediately proceed to compare them?

[alby]

Yes

[chumdawg]

Something to keep in mind: One man's rubbish is another man's gold.

[ty]

lol @ people that still want to keep Howard.

[dude1394]

Does the 6mill count against the cap or just a trade-bonus for him?

[alby]

I don't think it counts towards the cap.

[spreedom]

I think the $6M would be evenly distributed to the remaining years on his deal, and if it is in his contract is DOES count against the cap.

[alby]

what a great deal for Josh Smith, hell of a contract

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by alby

You cannot compare Smith to Howard. They are in completely different schemes, with completely different coaching, with completely different personnel. Let's just say on offense, they are a wash--defensively, there's not even a question.

Absolutely not a wash offensively!

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Does the 6mill count against the cap or just a trade-bonus for him?

{Update: There have been a lot of questions about the 'trade kicker' in Smith's contract. Here is an explanation. The trade kicker is said to be $6 million dollars. Even though that amount is sent to Smith immediately, the full amount doesn't count towards the salary cap.

The amount that does count against the cap is broken up evenly over the length of the contract. Which in this case is the 4 years left on Smith's contract. So $1.5 million is added to Smith's contract the next four years. This season it would count for $12.3 million dollars(10.8 + 1.5). Which means (insert team here) could send to Atlanta salaries that were within the trade rules(125% + 100k) of that amount.}
.

[alby]

Seriously, how did Smith pull that one off?

[dirno2000]

Well, he signed for less than Igudola, Okafor and Deng. It looks like he gave Atlanta a hometown discount and part of that discount goes away if he's traded.