Goodbye 2010 Pipedream, Hello 2009-2010 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

aexchange · 06-26-2009, 02:42 PM

Just wanted to throw this out there and get some thoughts:

Dallas sends/Philly Receives:
Matt Carroll
Jerry Stackhouse
Erick Dampier

Philly sends/Dallas Receives:
Louis Williams
Samuel Dalembert
Elton Brand
#1 Pick

This is nothing more than a salary purging on the 76ers side and fits in with Cuban's edict of increasing payroll only if it means acquiring an all star. Dallas sends $30M worth of contracts in guarantees and Philly sends back $113M. Philly saves $83M over the lifetime of the contracts they are purging. Philly does this deal to get out of Brand's contract and make a prominent run in the 2010 campaign to pair a stud next to AI.

$83M also costs the 76ers a pick. For grins, let's just assume its a 2010-2011 pick.

Goodbye to the 2010 pipedream for Dallas that never was and goes for it now over the next 2 seasons while Dirk has some window left. Sign Odom for the MLE at 4 yrs. Resign Bass/Kidd/Hollins.

Dallas immediately gets big and athletic across some key spots.

Kidd/Barea/Booby
Howard/Terry/Williams
Odom/Wright/George
Nowitzki/Bass/Nivins
Brand/Dalembert/Hollins

You now have length and size across your starting 5 and can play a variety of styles.

dalmations202 · 06-26-2009, 02:58 PM

Nice.......

Robillion · 06-26-2009, 03:22 PM

I think Brand is too much of a risk really to offer much for.. and their whole experiment has not worked well for Philly with Dalembert and Brand together... but that Louis Williams kid looks to have some potential.

Id love to get Odom for the MLE, but I dont see it happening.

chumdawg · 06-26-2009, 03:45 PM

Looks good to me! Probably a bit too rich for our blood, though.

jthig32 · 06-26-2009, 03:47 PM

I like the idea, but I just don't think Brand and Dirk work together.

Zki41 · 06-26-2009, 03:50 PM

Can Brand play the 5?

aexchange · 06-26-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

I think Brand is too much of a risk really to offer much for.. and their whole experiment has not worked well for Philly with Dalembert and Brand together... but that Louis Williams kid looks to have some potential.

Id love to get Odom for the MLE, but I dont see it happening.

LA's priority is to resign Ariza. I fully expect Kobe to opt-out and get re-inked for a larger long term dollar deal. Buss is notoriously cheap and the Lakers will be over LT territory.

I think Odom is the most realistic piece the Mavs can acquire.

aexchange · 06-26-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I like the idea, but I just don't think Brand and Dirk work together.

Not sure we can get any better low post alternative than Brand. Brand and Dirk in my mind are a great high - low post combo.

destroy ALL · 06-26-2009, 03:58 PM

Why would Odom want to leave a championship team? weird.

jthig32 · 06-26-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Not sure we can get any better low post alternative than Brand. Brand and Dirk in my mind are a great high - low post combo.

I'm more worried about the defensive side. The offense would work well, I agree.

Zki41 · 06-26-2009, 04:01 PM

Do we really want Odom? After he gets his contract in ink I doubt he would be really motivated to play with the effort we would want out of him. With the Lakers he just slacked off the whole season until late(r) in the playoffs.

mavsfan7 · 06-26-2009, 04:02 PM

I wouldnt mind that but id try and trade Wright, George and Williams to New Orleans for Posey to provide us shooting and tough defense off the bench

aexchange · 06-26-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm more worried about the defensive side. The offense would work well, I agree.

for D, you can always go Brand/Dalembert for periods or Dirk/Dalembert for periods. I'd consider Brand or Dalembert at Center to be better pick and roll defenders than Dampier now.

grndmstr_c · 06-26-2009, 04:06 PM

If I felt I could trust Brand's health and mobility, I'd be happy to have him start next to Dirk. Just not sure that I do. Still, I look at Philly as a team that Dallas should definitely be talking to. They've got several good players on rich contracts.

Dirkenstien · 06-26-2009, 04:28 PM

Even without the Odom move I think this is a good deal. Cuban has always liked Dalembert as well.

Would be nice but I've learned not to get my hopes up with this management. Expect very little and you won't be dissapointed.

aexchange · 06-26-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If I felt I could trust Brand's health and mobility, I'd be happy to have him start next to Dirk. Just not sure that I do. Still, I look at Philly as a team that Dallas should definitely be talking to. They've got several good players on rich contracts.

He's a high character guy and a hard worker. At the center position, I don't know if he needs to be as mobile as he once was, but I still suspect given that he returns at close to what he was before he was injured, he'll still be more of an effective defender than Dampier was.

mavs777 · 06-26-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

Why would Odom want to leave a championship team? weird.

to Start

grndmstr_c · 06-26-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

He's a high character guy and a hard worker. At the center position, I don't know if he needs to be as mobile as he once was, but I still suspect given that he returns at close to what he was before he was injured, he'll still be more of an effective defender than Dampier was.

Work ethic and character have nothing to do with it. Without his mobility I don't trust him to be the kind of offensive/glass-crashing inside menace we'd need him to be at center. He's just not big enough to have that kind of success unless he's got his athleticism.

sike · 06-26-2009, 04:54 PM

I love this deal if Brand is even at 80%

Robillion · 06-26-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

LA's priority is to resign Ariza. I fully expect Kobe to opt-out and get re-inked for a larger long term dollar deal. Buss is notoriously cheap and the Lakers will be over LT territory.

I think Odom is the most realistic piece the Mavs can acquire.

I am expecting Odom to take less money, as he has said, and even Kobe to opt out this summer and take a slight pay cut in the front end of his new contract (with the back end increasing to make up the difference after the big dip in LT in 2010-11). This way they will easily be able to afford both Kobe and Odom, as well as maybe even afford a MLE pick. I see that more realistic, with them coming off of a championship, then either Ariza or Odom leaving.

bigox71 · 06-26-2009, 08:12 PM

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=oeqcxa

Terry, Stackhouse, Dampier, Carrol
for
AI, Brand, Dalembert

Kidd/AI/Howard/Dirk/Brand

Pure salary dump for Philly. Terry would be the only one on their team making over $5 mil. after this season.

Robillion · 06-26-2009, 08:32 PM

Now I would love me some of that.... but that would not happen.

foglemann · 06-26-2009, 10:13 PM

I like Dalembert or Brand in that trade. Both is too redundant.

What's the smallest deal we could do for Brand???
If we could get Louis and Brand for Stack + change, I'd be all for it!!

grndmstr_c · 06-27-2009, 12:57 AM

I actually think that if Damp's on his way out, the Brand/Dalembert combo would be a pretty damn nice way of rounding out a Dirk-led frontcourt. One long athletic rebounder/shotblocker, one guy who scores primarily from the elbow and in and makes a living on the offensive glass, and one guy who scores from the elbow and out. It's darn near a perfect rotation in terms of how the skill sets compliment one another. All three player pairings are worth giving time to.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-27-2009, 04:03 AM

I'd be down with this trade, but I do hate that backcourt.

dayman · 06-27-2009, 04:36 AM

id rather go after AI and Dalembert or AI and Brand not both bigmen i dont see it working out, plus thats like a videogame trade my head would explode if this were to ever happen

dalmations202 · 06-27-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I actually think that if Damp's on his way out, the Brand/Dalembert combo would be a pretty damn nice way of rounding out a Dirk-led frontcourt. One long athletic rebounder/shotblocker, one guy who scores primarily from the elbow and in and makes a living on the offensive glass, and one guy who scores from the elbow and out. It's darn near a perfect rotation in terms of how the skill sets compliment one another. All three player pairings are worth giving time to.

Brand is an elbow in, rebounding and shotblocking machine. Although he is not a 7', man he has the wingspan of one.

Brand/Dalembert doesn't really work because both occupy the same area most of the time. Brand wouldn't have that issue with Dirk. Dirk/Dalembert would work like Dirk/Chandler. Dirk/Brand would be sweet. I'd definitely do the Brand/Dalembert exchange.

Now, if you could put a defensive minded SF, who can score with that crew, IMO you have something. There are several out there, AK47, GWallace, Outlaw, etc. Then get a quick athletic defender who is a pure shooter for SG and you are set. Work inside out, if the push didn't work.

TheMaverick · 06-27-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I actually think that if Damp's on his way out, the Brand/Dalembert combo would be a pretty damn nice way of rounding out a Dirk-led frontcourt. One long athletic rebounder/shotblocker, one guy who scores primarily from the elbow and in and makes a living on the offensive glass, and one guy who scores from the elbow and out. It's darn near a perfect rotation in terms of how the skill sets compliment one another. All three player pairings are worth giving time to.

Why do you think Damp is on his way out? What would you put the chances are of him leaving?

grndmstr_c · 06-27-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

Why do you think Damp is on his way out? What would you put the chances are of him leaving?

I don't. Just a reference to the likelihood that Damp would be one of the pieces from Dallas' end in a swap that brought in Brand and Dalembert.

As for the pairing of those two, it'd work just fine for the 10-12 mpg it'd get used. You'd have to depend on long-range shooting from your guards and second chance points to really score very much, but I wager they'd make up for it defensively. Certainly, if that's the weakest 4/5 pairing in your regular rotation you've got yourself a damn good frontcourt.

aexchange · 06-27-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

I like Dalembert or Brand in that trade. Both is too redundant.

What's the smallest deal we could do for Brand???
If we could get Louis and Brand for Stack + change, I'd be all for it!!

we aren't going to get brand for a pile of magic beans which is essentially what we would be offering up in stackhouse. in any proposed trade, there has to be some level of motivation for the other team to make the deal. taking brand's contract away, doesn't give the 76ers any additional flexibility to make a big run in 2010.

taking dalemberts and brand's would. it give the 76ers a chance to try to land a bosh in 2010 and pair him with AI.

also, cuban isn't a sucker. he isn't going to eat an additional $83M in contracts without getting something of value in return. if our worst problem coming out of this deal is that we have two talented people who can't really occupy the same space at the same time, i think 29 other teams in the league would like to have that same issue.

foglemann · 06-27-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

we aren't going to get brand for a pile of magic beans which is essentially what we would be offering up in stackhouse. in any proposed trade, there has to be some level of motivation for the other team to make the deal. taking brand's contract away, doesn't give the 76ers any additional flexibility to make a big run in 2010.

taking dalemberts and brand's would. it give the 76ers a chance to try to land a bosh in 2010 and pair him with AI.

also, cuban isn't a sucker. he isn't going to eat an additional $83M in contracts without getting something of value in return. if our worst problem coming out of this deal is that we have two talented people who can't really occupy the same space at the same time, i think 29 other teams in the league would like to have that same issue.

So what would you call the packages that Orlando and san Antonio gave up. Close to magic beans to me.

I'm not pretending to know what Philly is looking for and neither do you. Brand was signed to a max contract in the last offseason. And Philly was much better without him last year. If they want money off there cap, stack is one of the last salary dump options out there.

In your proposed trade, your adding too many pieces to be realistic. I think it would be very likely that the sixers would be glad to rid themselves of brands guarenteed contract.

TheMaverick · 06-27-2009, 10:40 PM

^ great post

Do you think Stack/Damp would be enough?

I honestly would do Stack/Damp/Kidd for Brand/Miller... and I love Kidd.

aexchange · 06-27-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

So what would you call the packages that Orlando and san Antonio gave up. Close to magic beans to me.

I'm not pretending to know what Philly is looking for and neither do you. Brand was signed to a max contract in the last offseason. And Philly was much better without him last year. If they want money off there cap, stack is one of the last salary dump options out there.

In your proposed trade, your adding too many pieces to be realistic. I think it would be very likely that the sixers would be glad to rid themselves of brands guarenteed contract.

in milwaukees situation, they are trying to resign sessions and charlie v. for new jersey, its all about 2010. the 76ers aren't in that situation. if they execute this trade, they are purely blowing things up for 2010. they aren't in any kind of financial distress so comparing philly to nj and the bucks is an apples to oranges comparison.

given that, i do think the mavs would have to give up more than a pile of bad knees and expiring contracts to make a deal happen and since the mavs don't have picks or an overwhelming amount of talent, they'll have to do it the old fashioned way (ala NVE, Juwan Howard, LaFrentz) and that is absorb some bad contracts..

Dtownsfinest · 06-28-2009, 08:08 AM

I don't see the 6ers doing that for the fact that #1 pick is going to be a top 5 pick. Especially if they give up 'Louis, Brand and Dalembert for those scrubs. I agree with foglemann. They might want to give the Brand era another go but if they're going to get rid of someone it may be his contract. But I don't think its bad enough to where they throw in Louis Williams, Dalemebert and their #1 pick.

Dtownsfinest · 06-28-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

^ great post

Do you think Stack/Damp would be enough?

I honestly would do Stack/Damp/Kidd for Brand/Miller... and I love Kidd.

I'd do it but you're basically saying this team was a Brand and Andre Miller away from a championship and I don't think that's true. I guess it would depend on what we'd do with our mid-level. Hopefully it would be more than signing a Desagna Diop type player for the whole exception.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 06-28-2009, 10:19 AM

Everything the F.O. is doing right now is towards 2010, I doubt they abandon that plan for something like this. So even if the Sixers are down for it (which is highly unlikely) most likely our F.O. would say no to it.

stewartj · 06-29-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Everything the F.O. is doing right now is towards 2010, I doubt they abandon that plan for something like this. So even if the Sixers are down for it (which is highly unlikely) most likely our F.O. would say no to it.

I'm really hoping that 2010 is a smokescreen. I don't think we can trim enough salary to be way under the cap and still have a solid team. I think we would be better off building the best team we can for this year, and trying to have some trade chips for S&T's next year.

I think this would be a great trade for the Mavs. Both Brand and Sammy are great rebounders and shot blockers when healthy. Brand would be a huge upgrade on offense, and Sammy couldn't be much of a downgrade from the 7ppg Damp gave us this year. I think having the three headed post presence would also allow us to limit Brand's minutes and try to keep him healthy for the post-season.

Kidd Karma · 06-29-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Just wanted to throw this out there and get some thoughts:

Dallas sends/Philly Receives:
Matt Carroll
Jerry Stackhouse
Erick Dampier

Philly sends/Dallas Receives:
Louis Williams
Samuel Dalembert
Elton Brand
#1 Pick

This is nothing more than a salary purging on the 76ers side and fits in with Cuban's edict of increasing payroll only if it means acquiring an all star. Dallas sends $30M worth of contracts in guarantees and Philly sends back $113M. Philly saves $83M over the lifetime of the contracts they are purging. Philly does this deal to get out of Brand's contract and make a prominent run in the 2010 campaign to pair a stud next to AI.

$83M also costs the 76ers a pick. For grins, let's just assume its a 2010-2011 pick.

Goodbye to the 2010 pipedream for Dallas that never was and goes for it now over the next 2 seasons while Dirk has some window left. Sign Odom for the MLE at 4 yrs. Resign Bass/Kidd/Hollins.

Dallas immediately gets big and athletic across some key spots.

Kidd/Barea/Booby
Howard/Terry/Williams
Odom/Wright/George
Nowitzki/Bass/Nivins
Brand/Dalembert/Hollins

You now have length and size across your starting 5 and can play a variety of styles.

Unfortunately, Philly's not in sell mode. With new coach and Ed Stefanski in charge, they will be buyers. They won't move Williams nor the 1st rounder for that package. New uniforms, new coach, this team is in win mode.