what's wrong with the defense? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 10:58 AM

i didn't expect the cowboys to get much pressure on the QB..but i'm amazed at how badly the secondary looked yesterday..
newman, williams, and woody were all burned repeatedly.

sure, some of it has to do with lack of pressure..but surely they aren't that bad..are they?

woody was burned 2-3 times deep..luckily, collins simply made poor throws on each

u2sarajevo · 09-16-2003, 11:02 AM

I agree that the secondary did not look well in the second half yesterday. But, and I might be making excuses for them, I feel that our Offense has alot to do with our Defensive problems.

We have to find a running game and stop relying on the big plays to keep drives alive. The Defense is being worn down quickly because they are on the field too much.

And as for Newman, he is a rookie so he is going to be picked on.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 11:08 AM

didn't the cowboys have a huge edge in time of possession yesterday?

Jeremiah · 09-16-2003, 11:27 AM

yup, 42:30 to about 26:38.

Dooby · 09-16-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
didn't the cowboys have a huge edge in time of possession yesterday?

Yeah but not in the 4th quarter. Giants scored and the 'boys quickly gave it back on downs and the Giants scored again. I think that says a lot about the state of our running game. You can't hadn teh ball off to anyone and have any sort of expectations.

Newman's played in 2 NFL games. He will get tested and he will get burned. Roy Williams made one really bad mistake that I saw when he didn't roll over on coverage and got burned for the touchdown. He's still young, too. Woody has no such excuses but I don't remember too many problems with Woody specifically.

Drbio · 09-16-2003, 11:52 AM

I think conditioning was a factor.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 11:56 AM

well, it's easy to forget when woody was burned when the giants failed to take advantage of it...

dirno2000 · 09-16-2003, 12:46 PM

I'm pretty sure Woody has lost a step over the years, so I expect him to get burned a couple of times this year. The problem is that injuries in the secondary have forced us to use Woody to cover the slot receiver. Parcells wan't to get away from that this year.

I don't thing coverage is Roy's strong poing. He's a safety who's strong point is making plays around the line of scrimmage. He's got to do better.

Newman is going to get picked on. I take heart in the fact that he has been beaten, but he hasn't been burned this year. When he gets more comfortable with what he's seeing, I expect him to jump a couple of routes and take them back. Buchannan is a small corner who had at least one touchdown last year, and one Sunday. If they're going to pick on you make them pay.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 01:09 PM

i agree with your assessment of woody..
but, the book on Williams coming out of college was that he's a dominating safety that could easily play corner on the NFL level as well.
he didn't look like it last night

dirno2000 · 09-16-2003, 01:29 PM

He sure didn't. Sometimes it's hard for fans to judge safeties, because we don't know what the coverage is. but last night in the 1st half it was clearly a cover 2 and when Edwards let Hilliard go, Roy looked lost.

Also consider that Roy has bulked up since college. Parcells mentioned it at a press conference a couple of weeks ago. Said he was "a couple of biscuts away from being a linebacker". He pursues and hits like a linebacker, but if he want's to be an elite safety, he needs to show the corner skills that we heard about also.

madape · 09-16-2003, 02:16 PM

Our defense is VASTLY overrated. We have no one other than Glover who can rush the passer ( and please don't get fooled by last night, our squad could barely hang with a line depending on three less-than blue chip rookies). Our linebackers are tiny and weak. Our corners are inexperienced. We only have two playmakers on defense and they both play safety. Unfortunatley, one of those playmakers was making extraordinarily BAD plays last night. We forget sometimes that Roy Williams is only a second year player. I love him, but he's at least two years away from earning the reputation he has right now.

MFFL · 09-16-2003, 02:51 PM

Who is the other defensive tackle that plays on the other side of Glover. I swear his name is Claude Rains.

OutletPass · 09-16-2003, 03:27 PM

Excellent post, Mad...a really good, objective analysis.

I'll just add that we've come to expect a lot of Roy...even though he's just starting his secong year...but I wasn't too surprised that he got beat deep once...that happens. What was hard to believe were 3 pass interference calls on him; two coming on consecutive plays near the goal line. Truly weird.

Having said that, I truly love the guy. He'll prove out over time...which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of the other guys...your post was very on point, Mad.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 03:35 PM

i expect roy williams to go through some growing pains..but he was truly awful for the most part last night..beaten on numerous occasions plus too many penalties.

but, i do expect him to bounce back.

on a positive note, ekuban had a sack and a half and a forced fumble

FilthyFinMavs · 09-16-2003, 03:46 PM

I think the main problem with the D is no pash rush which calls for our Safetys to rush alot. We have our safetys doing 2 jobs rather than just having 1 which they should. This D is just one pass rusher away from being a great defense. You also have Derek Ross out who is our starting cb. I don't know about the defensive ends. I think this is Ekuban's breakout year. His contract expires after this season and I think he is going to play for a new contract.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 04:11 PM

there's alot of defenses that rely on blitzing safeties.. in the NFL today, most teams do use alot of safety/corner blitzes. there's no excuse for the volume of mistakes made by the secondary yesterday. Just glad they got alot out of their system in a win.

and you're definitely right about the cowboys needing a pass rusher. actually, i'm happy with glover as a pass rusher, but if he's doubled all the time..it renders him useless for the most part on passing plays. players such as ekuban and ellis need to contribute more on the pass rush

FilthyFinMavs · 09-16-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
there's alot of defenses that rely on blitzing safeties.. in the NFL today, most teams do use alot of safety/corner blitzes. there's no excuse for the volume of mistakes made by the secondary yesterday. Just glad they got alot out of their system in a win.

and you're definitely right about the cowboys needing a pass rusher. actually, i'm happy with glover as a pass rusher, but if he's doubled all the time..it renders him useless for the most part on passing plays. players such as ekuban and ellis need to contribute more on the pass rush

GLover is fine but we need our former first round picks to step up there game on the line. The defensive ends is were we lack a pass rush.

QCarFan · 09-16-2003, 04:15 PM

I think Willie Blade, Stewart, and not sure who the other is plays alongside Glover but I never heard Glovers name all night. I heard Blades though

MFFL · 09-16-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
on a positive note, ekuban had a sack and a half and a forced fumble

Didn't he do all that in the first couple of drives? He was swallowed by the earth in the second half.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 05:55 PM

Mavsfanfinley, that was my point...glover IS doing his job if he takes up two blockers..it's up to the other lineman to make something happen when matched up by one blocker

and yeah, mffl,it was all real early..but, at least he showed up for part of the game

it's a start

QCarFan · 09-16-2003, 05:59 PM

I really can't believe how the Giants rookies took control of our defensive line in the 2nd half. Our guys aren't rookie and 2nd year players either, that should not happen and can't happen with this defense. We need to get some presssure on the QB for this defense to be sucessful IMO.

MFFL · 09-16-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Mavsfanfinley, that was my point...glover IS doing his job if he takes up two blockers..it's up to the other lineman to make something happen when matched up by one blocker

But you would STILL like Glover to make a little more impact than NO tackles and ONE assist. Blade who was the invisible man for the game still had a tackle.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 07:26 PM

of course mffl...you'd like to see him split the double team from time to time and get to the QB.

however, when doubled on a pass play, it's very, very difficult to make it to the passer...
on the run, most d-linemen don't rack up alot of tackles. and, the cowboys did a very good job against the run.

sure, i'd like to see more from glover, but as long as he's consistently doubled, it's going to fall on the shoulders of some of the other players

there was one play where glover really screwed up towards the end of regulation.. he was chopped block, left his lane and allowed collins to complete a pass for the first down..i think it was on the drive where the giants went in for the go ahead field goal..that play, he should have kept his lane, pushed the cut block to the ground and got his hands up..

Bayliss · 09-16-2003, 09:11 PM

Must have watched a different game than me. I saw the defense come up with 2 sacks... 2 interceptions... a fumble recovery and a touchdown.

Yes, they got beat a couple of times deep... but then again every single team will have that happen to them. The only exceptions are the Bucs and Panthers.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 09:14 PM

i thought the defense was outstanding early..
but i thought they were very poor in the second half.

it has been an issue for quite awhile, the cowboys defense failing late in games. what was it, last year, i believe there were 7 games that the cowboys led in the 4th quarter in which they lost the game

Bayliss · 09-16-2003, 09:30 PM

Well, murph... that can be explained. In fact, the defense faltering in the 2nd hald only shows that our offense is too inconsistent. Too many times in the 2nd half, the offense cannot sustain a drive to give the defense a breather... and obviously a tired defense gives up big plays/points much quicker than a fresh one.

Nothing more... nothing less than that.

Murphy3 · 09-16-2003, 09:38 PM

bayliss..sure, the offense is part of it. it obviously goes hand in hand.

however, the lack of pressure to the QB leaves the cowboys susceptible to the pass when other teams are coming from behind in games..
it's not only on the offense, the defense deserves their share of the blame

QCarFan · 09-16-2003, 09:57 PM

hit the nail right on the head murphy3, the offense should not be blamed for the defensive collapse in the 2nd half. I mean, those guys just totally collapsed and who's fault is that? Its the defene's fault, the way they were pushed around in the 2nd half. The first half, they played extremely well. I dont know what happened, but they looked like two totally different defenses last night. They had absolutely NO pass rush in the 2nd half, and thats not acceptable especially when you consider the Giants started 3 rookies.

Just211 · 09-17-2003, 08:48 AM

i don't think conditioning is the thing. IMO the lack of a effective pass rush allows ANY team to be effective when they are agressively throwing the ball. cover 2 does not work without making the QB make quicker decisions. That's why teams always score when they need to on dallas. think of every close game dallas lost, and there is usually a point in the game that when the oppositon needed a score, they got it.
atlanta game was obvious, and NY scored when they needed to, but luckily dallas pulled it out.
Hopefully the offense can continue to score points, and allow the d some leeway (SP?). but it's really up to how agressive the other teams offense is.
and hopefully getting ross back will give the secondary a little more of a chance.

IMO, the only difference between Dallas' D and the Bucs D is the Bucs have a great D-line that always pressures the ball, and Dallas has an avg D line. BUT i think that is Parcells #1 objective to improve.

MavsFanatik33 · 09-18-2003, 09:18 PM

I thought they played strong first half, but in the 4th our offense kept going 3 and out or only getting a few first downs. NY was wearing our defense down, and it showed a lot. Hopefully this will improve over the course of the year.

Murphy3 · 09-18-2003, 10:24 PM

just211, pretty good post.
..one thing i'd like to say about the d-line of the cowboys... solid against the run and piss poor rushing the passer.
can't they find a happy median?

Fah Q · 09-18-2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanatik33
I thought they played strong first half, but in the 4th our offense kept going 3 and out or only getting a few first downs. NY was wearing our defense down, and it showed a lot. Hopefully this will improve over the course of the year.

I disagree with the D getting tired. The cowboys had the ball for over 40 minutes, it would be really sad if the D would get tired that quickly.