Calling out Troy Hambrick

[MFFL]

23 rushes for 60 yards (2.6 per carry) is PATHETIC!

[QCarFan]

VERY PATHETIC, he looked good at times and didnt care at others tonight

[dirno2000]

When he goes North and South, he's a good, not a great, but a solid back. When he tries to do his Emmitt impression and make moves at the line or run to the sidelines, he loses yardage.

[Simon2]

He looked like he was jogging out there! When he's given the ball, he should just go full speed. He was trying to be Barry Sanders. I want to see more of Cason.

[LordOfTheMavs]

I agree that Habrick is not an answer at RB. But many teams have sucky RB's and can still win. We obviously need to look quick in the off-season to find someone else, but can make due this season. One upside he does have is that he is pretty bruising on the Defense. I think Cason is great and suprisingly tough at times for his size, but Hambrick looks like he can wear down a defense. However, on the downside, he has no vision. Rarely hits a hole with authority. Often runs to the defenders for small gains. Is slow to burst into the holes. Never breaks a long one, even when he gets to the linebackers untouched. Never makes one guy miss. He has to rely on great blocking to open big holes and then he will get 6-8 yards. But never tacks on his own earned yardage. His only upside is that he is pretty bruising to the defense.

I would like to see Cason get more carries and have more of a "Thunder and Lightning" running attack. Hambrick to just pound and wear down the D and Cason to make the quick strikes against a reeling defense.

[Dooby]

I am so glad this thread is here. Last night I was thinking to myself that we will know whether we have the answer at HB before we know whether we have the answer at QB. And that is sad in and of itself.

Hambrick is spare.

Poor running game is what killed the team in the 4th quarter. If we had run off some clock and kept the defense off the field for a few minutes, we might not have given up 15 points in the 4th quarter.

[Murphy3]

well, for the most part, the giants sold out against the run for much of the game..giving quincy the opportunity to beat them.

i wasn't thrilled with the cowboys running attack, but I believe it has as much or more to do with the giants defensive schemes as it had to do with hambrick...

trust me, i really don't like the guy that much, so i wouldn't throw that out there to support him unless i thought it was true

[kg_veteran]

I've gotta jump in on the Hambrick dogpile here. I don't think the guy has the desire necessary to be a feature back.

That said, if anyone can get it out of him, it will be Parcells.

[dirno2000]

I think he has the desire. I just don't think he's very instinctive, something Doc pointed out in the game thread. He can take what's there when he has a hole, but when he tries to create, it usually results in a negative play. There is also very little big play potential.

My one draft regret is that we didn't get a back. There were still pretty good prospects in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The good thing is, young running backs can contribute pretty quickly. If we draft the right one next year he can fill the void.

[Drbio]

I just don't think Hambrick takes advantage of his skills. He is one of those guys that if he had aheart like a Bill Bates, he would be an All Pro. But since he doesn't, he could be out of the league in 1-2 years.

[dirno2000]

Originally posted by: Drbio
I just don't think Hambrick takes advantage of his skills. He is one of those guys that if he had aheart like a Bill Bates, he would be an All Pro. But since he doesn't, he could be out of the league in 1-2 years.

You think he has All Pro talent?

[Drbio]

I think he has All Pro God given athletic ability that he doesn't tap into becaue he is not fully motivated. He really is a physical marvel but he doesn't seem to have either the mental grasp OR the desire to use his abilities. He personifies the kind of player that frustrates me to no end.

Edit: Again, if you stick bates heart in Hambricks body...we have a running back worth keeping.

[Rhylan]

He never showed me anything. He just don't hadda chops.

[dirno2000]

This is one of your quotes from the gameday thread:

"I mentioned this earlier. He looks like he is slow to recognize the development of the play. With his athletic ability and strength, if he could recognize the play development a little faster, he would be running all over the place."

I think that sums it up. He is big and fast, but he doesn't really have good vision or instincts. You either have them or you don't. His footwork is also lacking. He'll have an o.k. career. He won't kill us, but he probably won't carry us to any wins. Just don't fumble.

[Drbio]

That quote sums it up nicely. I was trying to point out that he did lack vision and instinct. But I also made the comment that if he had the heart of a Bill Bates or the recognition ability of basically anyone, that he would be a very good back. That said, I doubt he amounts to anything more than what he is right now. A mediocre running back who is holding back his teammates.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: Drbio
I just don't think Hambrick takes advantage of his skills. He is one of those guys that if he had aheart like a Bill Bates, he would be an All Pro. But since he doesn't, he could be out of the league in 1-2 years.

Can you imagine if he had the heart of a warrior like Emmitt?

[dirno2000]

Just listened to the Parcells press conference and he seemed to be pleased with Troy's performance. Compared him to Leonard Russell and O.J. Anderson, and said that when he gets his shoulders squared and runs downhill, he can do some damage. When he runs parallel to the line, he's just a big target.

He also mentioned that Troy was in watching film when Parcells arrived this morning.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Hambrick didn't have anyg ood runs last night. He had some great ones and some bad ones. That ended up being 2.6 yards a carry. Before we start calling for Cason lets be real here. Hambrick did this same thing that Cason is doing while Emmitt was here last year. The backup running back will always look better than the starting running back.

[Big Boy Laroux]

yeah, the backup will look better when your starter isn't as good. that's the point.

i don't think tomlinson's backup in san diego looks better, and i certainly don't think ki-jana carter looks better than deuce mcallister, for example.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
yeah, the backup will look better when your starter isn't as good. that's the point.

i don't think tomlinson's backup in san diego looks better, and i certainly don't think ki-jana carter looks better than deuce mcallister, for example.

Well i'm not referring to pro bowlers. I mean guys who have something to prove or who aren't playing to there potential. Like Bulger in St. Louis or Holcome in Cleveland. Those guys aren't better than the starters on that team but they look alot better because they are put in different situations.

[Big Boy Laroux]

hmm, maybe you should have clarified that instead of saying "The backup running back will always look better than the starting running back." i will say that some 3rd down backs sometimes do look better than regular starters because they have the potential to make bigger plays in the passing game.

as for bulger and holcomb, those guys are good. that's why they look good. and i am one that definitely thinks holcomb is better than couch.

as for bulger. he's proven that he can win. now, i do agree that martz does use him a lot differently than he uses warner. they run the ball A LOT more when bulger plays.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Hambrick didn't have anyg ood runs last night. He had some great ones and some bad ones.

WHAT?

Hambrick's longest run from scrimmage was only 12 yards. I call that an effective run - a great run is a 40 yard touchdown. I didn't see any great runs last night. Cason's 63 yard touchdown run in the first game of the season was a great run.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: MFFL

WHAT?

Hambrick's longest run from scrimmage was only 12 yards. I call that an effective run - a great run is a 40 yard touchdown. I didn't see any great runs last night. Cason's 63 yard touchdown run in the first game of the season was a great run.

I call a 12 yard run a great run. That is a automatic first down. A good run is about what a running back average which is about 4 yards a carry. Anytime you get a automatic first down I consider that a great run. A bad run is when you lose yardage. Anything is better than losing yardage.

[Murphy3]

interesting thing..all the only things that i've heard today about hambrick in the papers were completely complimentary

[mavsfanforever]

Actually, NYG have a great defense against the rush.

Yes hambrick needs to be better but look at what NYG did against Marshall Faulk-

9 attempts 28 yards
We are talking about a top 5 running back's performance against the giants. I can bet 8-10 running backs in this league will not do well against Giants.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
interesting thing..all the only things that i've heard today about hambrick in the papers were completely complimentary

Parcell's praised the guy also today.

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
Actually, NYG have a great defense against the rush.

Yes hambrick needs to be better but look at what NYG did against Marshall Faulk-

9 attempts 28 yards
We are talking about a top 5 running back's performance against the giants. I can bet 8-10 running backs in this league will not do well against Giants.

Also, I would like to add that the only complaint I have against Hambrick is when he missed tackles which led to quincy being tackled or almost tackled from blind side. Those things might not show up on stat sheet but probably are one of the most important responsibilities of a Running Back when the playcall is to pass.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

I call a 12 yard run a great run. That is a automatic first down. A good run is about what a running back average which is about 4 yards a carry. Anytime you get a automatic first down I consider that a great run. A bad run is when you lose yardage. Anything is better than losing yardage.

Your standards are too low. A starting NFL running back should average about 4 yards a carry so that makes an AVERAGE run a "good" run?

If Hambrick is averaging 2.8 yards per carry then obviously he is doing a poor job. I don't want an average running back with the Boys (let alone a poor one). The Cowboys have a heritage of GREAT running backs.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Parcell's praised the guy also today.

Parcells is starting to develop a pattern. He doesn't gripe at guys who he thinks won't make a difference. I guess its not worth his bother. Who did he gripe at after the Atlanta game - Woodson. Because he didn't make a difference in the game.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: MFFL

Your standards are too low. A starting NFL running back should average about 4 yards a carry so that makes an AVERAGE run a "good" run?

If Hambrick is averaging 2.8 yards per carry then obviously he is doing a poor job. I don't want an average running back with the Boys (let alone a poor one). The Cowboys have a heritage of GREAT running backs.

I don't think my standards are too low at all. If a running back averaged 12 yards a carry that would be great. If a running back averages 4 yards a carry that is good. Anytime you can get 12 yards to get a first down I would consider a great run. You rarely see guys break off for 50 yard td's.

[mavsfanforever]

MFFl, I do agree Troy sucked in Atlanta game. But just see how much Marshall Faulk averaged against Giants. 3 yards per carry. Giants are a great team against Rush. They are probably the #1 in rush defense.

I think we should give Troy more time before declaring him unfit for a feature RB.

[Big Boy Laroux]

i agree with MFFL. i'd say your standards are WAY too low. of course this is up to interpretation, but i consider a GREAT run to be at least 20 yards. GOOD runs are around 6 to 20 yards (but on the lesser side of 20). AVERAGE runs are about 3-6 yards (because, like you said, they would AVERAGE about four yards a carry).

Of course if a RB AVERAGED 12 yards a carry that would be great! that would be freakin' phenomenal!

[Murphy3]

obviously, you must factor in the defense into the equation from time to time. what were their schemes? were they looking to stop the run to force quincy to beat them? were they using alot of run blitzes? are they just a solid team against the run to begin with? were the holes there but ham. simply wasn't hitting them? how did the line grade out with their run blocking?

[dirno2000]

You have to see the run. It depends on what the defense gives. I've seen great runs of 4 or 5 yards (Barry had a few). I seen runs of over 20 yards with holes so big, I could have run through them (i'm kinda quick though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]).

[Big Boy Laroux]

yes other factors come into play. but all that was discussed was yardage.

yeah, barry had "great" runs in which the D collapsed on him and got 5 yards out of it instead of -1. but based strictly on yardage, it's not a great run.

[Drbio]

geez...should a great qb throw for 500 yards a game. 20 yards per catch? Those standards are low.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
i agree with MFFL. i'd say your standards are WAY too low. of course this is up to interpretation, but i consider a GREAT run to be at least 20 yards. GOOD runs are around 6 to 20 yards (but on the lesser side of 20). AVERAGE runs are about 3-6 yards (because, like you said, they would AVERAGE about four yards a carry).

Of course if a RB AVERAGED 12 yards a carry that would be great! that would be freakin' phenomenal!

Well its obvious we have different defintion of average. I thought average and good meant the same thing?

[Big Boy Laroux]

A = Great
B = Good
C = Average
D = Below Average
F = Bad

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
A = Great
B = Good
C = Average
D = Below Average
F = Bad

Lol okay. I stick by what I said. THam had some great ones and some bad ones. No good ones. More good runs and less bad runs is what I want from him. Good and average in my book have the same meaning.

[Big Boy Laroux]

What book is that?


from dictionary.com

Average: Usual or ordinary in kind or character.

Good: Being positive or desirable in nature; not bad or poor; Of high quality; Superior to the average