Hispanic culture strong in Texas - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chiwas · 09-20-2003, 12:28 PM

09/20/2003 4:44 AM ET
Hispanic culture strong in Texas
By Jesse Sanchez / MLB.com

ARLINGTON -- The word "ganar" and the phrase "To win" sound nothing alike, but mean exactly the same thing.
It's the goal of every professional baseball player and Hispanic bilingual players in the Rangers clubhouse to know that fact two-fold.

What these players also know is they are in the unique position of being able to communicate in either their native tongue or in English. What that means during Hispanic Heritage Month is they are proud -- proud to be Latino and proud to be Major Leaguers.

"The two things all of us have in common is our language and that we play ball the same way," said Rafael Palmeiro, who was born in Cuba and raised in Miami. "Baseball is baseball, but our language is how we communicate. The language is what brings us together. We speak English, but we speak Spanish, too."

Palmeiro said he and shortstop Alex Rodriguez often take young Spanish-speaking players under their proverbial wing to make them feel comfortable. Palmeiro, who did not begin speaking English until he was six years old, added that sometimes players are criticized for "getting comfortable" in a situation, but being comfortable whether it be in the batter's box or speaking Spanish is a key part of a player's success.

His teammates agreed on the importance of communicating in both languages.

"To me, being able to speak Spanish is a big thing," said Erasmo Ramirez, a Mexican-American, who was born in California. "I was raised here in the United States, but being able to communicate with my teammates in the same language is a big advantage. It works both ways, we help each other learn English and Spanish and as player, you need several different perspectives."

Rookie pitcher Rosman Garcia, from Venezuela, admits to being overwhelmed with the Major League experience at times. But being able to ask his teammates questions about the game and simple things like directions to a local mall in Spanish has helped him make the transition off the field.

"We have the same languages, but different cultures, but that is a beautiful relationship," Garcia said. "We understand that it is important to learn English and communicate in English because that is the principal language in this country. But it's nice to be able to hear about life and learn about other Spanish-speaking countries. Sometimes, they do the same type of things I do for fun in my country and it makes me feel good to think 'Hey, I'm not weird.' There is a bond here. They eat and do a lot of the same stuff in the Dominican Republic that I do in Venezuela."

The rookie attempted to explain the misconceptions often created when a Spanish-speaking player refuses to talk to the media or appears bewildered.

"Sometimes I think we, especially me as a rookie, are afraid to say the wrong thing because we cannot speak the language 100 percent," Garcia said. "You are afraid to say something wrong, so sometimes you don't talk to the media."

Of the 39 on the Rangers roster, 10 were born in Spanish-speaking countries and a total of 14 players on the team are of Latino descent. Michael Young, like catcher Gerald Laird, is from California and has roots in Mexico. The second baseman is proud of his Mexican roots and has taken Spanish classes at the University of California, Los Angeles during the offseason.

"English is my predominant language, but it's great to see players get together and share the language and also come together as a team," said Young, whose grandparents are from Mexico City. "That's one of the great things about this country. All cultures can come together."

Rangers manager Buck Showalter, who has almost 30 years of professional baseball on his resume, knows first-hand the impact of Spanish as well as other languages on the game of baseball and the game of life. The Florida resident is knowledgeable enough to know that the world is changing.

"I found out -- one of the things -- traveling and scouting and what-have-you around the world, is that we are not alone on this planet with being able to play baseball," Showalter said. "I could not imagine someone managing Latin American players without going over there. I think (people who do not go to the Latin America) miss so much. They (players) have such a passion and it's not because they don't have anything else to go back to, it's just ... I don't know, I've always had great success with Latin players and I'm not sure why. But maybe it has something with embracing it, and I want them to be proud of it and embrace it, and know we are too. I don't want them all of sudden to be Americanized. I want them to be who they are."

Showalter, who has traveled to the Caribbean World Series and is openly embraced by several Hispanic players on opposing teams, admits it took time for him to understand the differences among Spanish-speaking cultures. He made what has developed into a common mistake among individuals not familiar with the Spanish culture.

"I made the mistake early on of 'Ok, here's a guy from Venezuela, here's a guy from Dominican, here's a guy from Puerto Rico and I roomed them all together,'" said Showalter who is among a group of guests invited to attend a Hispanic Heritage Celebration at the White House next month. "They had nothing in common. The Spanish was different and their backgrounds were different."

But that was then. This is now. Showalter learned from the experiment.

He also said that he is eager to learn Spanish in order to help identify with his players, but has not yet mastered the language. Pitching coach Orel Hershiser is often heard attempting to speak and even joke in Spanish with his pitchers.

"I've tried, but the problem is you have to be around somebody who speaks it all the time," Showalter said. "I've gotten better and better, and then I get away from it in the offseason and I get back and I can't. I have conversations with them, but nothing like I should or wish I could. I'd almost have to go over and stay in the Dominican for long time of two or three months where I had to. Until you are really forced to do it, you don't do it."

But that communication barrier can cause misconceptions.

"I think one of the mistakes guys make is to think that a guy is not necessarily intelligent because you can't communicate with them," said. "I've had some guys that all of sudden you get where you can have a conversation with them and you realize they are pretty sharp, like B.K. Kim. I think (Francisco) Cordero is sharp ... It's not that I didn't know, it's that I was unable to communicate with him."

Cordero, who made his big league debut for the Tigers in 1999 and the Rangers organization for the past seasons is a role model for young Hispanic players on the team because of his ability to maintain his Spanish and also learn English. He is a candidate to be the closer for the Rangers in the future.

"Guys like Einar Diaz, Cordero, (Ugueth) Urbina, Alex (Rodriguez) and Juan Gone when he was here make it easier on us," Garcia said. "They know what it's like, so they help."

Some Rangers, who declined to comment on-the-record, said they felt that speaking Spanish was discouraged or even prohibited in the training room. Showalter, however, disagreed.

Though head trainer Jamie Reed does not speak Spanish, assistant trainer and fluent speaker Ray Ramirez acts as an intermediary for players who prefer to explain the details of their injuries in their native tongue, said Showalter.

"Jamie would rather them speak English so he can tell what's going with them physically, but whatever they might tell Ray, Ray would tell Jamie," said the skipper. "I don't think the word prohibited would be it at all. Prohibited? No."

A ban on Spanish anywhere in the clubhouse where Alex Rodriguez -- the best player on the team and arguably the best player in the league -- is treated for his ailments would seemingly also affect strength coach Fernando Montes, hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo along with fellow Spanish-speaker Ramirez.

"I think sometimes people, when things are going bad, they hear people talking Spanish and sometimes they think they are talking about them," Showalter said. "The answer to that is to learn Spanish and the problem is solved."

As a Major League manager, solving problems has to be one of Showalter's goals. Learning the language of victory -- whether it be English or Spanish -- is the top priority.

Jesse Sanchez is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

Drbio · 09-20-2003, 01:28 PM

Was this really even being contested by anyone? (I only read the thread title)

Murphy3 · 09-20-2003, 01:47 PM

wow, you mean, their language is how they communicate?

Murphy3 · 09-20-2003, 02:13 PM

imagine that, the head trainer would rather them speak a language that he understands. i guess it makes sense, considering that he IS the head trainer.

talk about trying to make something out of nothing..

Chiwas · 09-21-2003, 12:26 PM

The writer made a point with a general -historic- head relating it to the fact that the baseball team is plenty of hispanic players.

The rest is purposely showing that if the fact exists, they have to live with it and not only be used to, but to take it in account if they are an important part of the team. Finally they, the hispanic players, think in Spanish and if you manage them, you need to understand them.

But in the end, speaking or not, they are committed to win.

Murphy3 · 09-21-2003, 01:35 PM

a waste of an article.
the autor's stealing money from MLB.com

MavKikiNYC · 09-22-2003, 08:17 AM

Why go out of the way to make an a$$ of yourself, Murphy?

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 08:28 AM

mavkiki, the article is trash. it's difficult to believe that mlb.com would run with something such as that

how often do people on this site mention when an article is garbage? every time a garbage article is posted.

chalk this one up as one more

baseball is right in the middle of a pennant race..yet, mr. sanchez feels the need to state what couldn't be any more obvious to anyone that knows anything about baseball and obvious to 95% of those that don't know baseball?

perhaps i should write an article chronicling the infusion of non americans onto the mavs roster.. it hasn't been done before, has it?

just annoying. when will the madness end?

Usually Lurkin · 09-22-2003, 08:35 AM

nice article. This is part of the image of Texas I like the world to know.

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 08:42 AM

oh great..now we have the gallery showing up that will disagree with me just to disagree.

anyways, what article is next? Homosexuality live and kicking in San Francisco?

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:02 AM

Damn Murphy, kingsfans.com might like ya

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:05 AM

just a little tired of bad articles..or articles stating things that couldn't be more obvious.

but thanks for your input. i'll definitely keep that in mind

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:07 AM

Was that an attempt of an apology?

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:09 AM

nope

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
nope

Haha, oh well.....worth a shot

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:14 AM

let's try this.

1. discuss the article's contents
2. discuss the merits of the article
3. discuss the appropriateness of the article
4. discuss something concerning the article

other than that..send it to PM's

Jeremiah · 09-22-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
oh great..now we have the gallery showing up that will disagree with me just to disagree.

First thing that comes to my head concerning this is from a buddy of mine to another buddy that is complaining that he gets picked on too much:

But you make it sooooo easy.

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:23 AM

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by: Jeremiah[/i
First thing that comes to my head concerning this is from a buddy of mine to another buddy that is complaining that he gets picked on too much:

But you make it sooooo easy.

Well said Jeremiah

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:25 AM

i'm really, really not complaining about being picked on. i could care less. but, while doing so, at least address the article as well.

if you can combine the two..taking a shot at me while discussing the article at the same time.. go ahead. that would be lovely.

but at least address the article in some form or another

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:27 AM

This Murph guy is funny....
Nice article may I add....

MavKikiNYC · 09-22-2003, 09:29 AM

On first read, I thought the article was thin. But your responses to it raise some interesting questions--I don't think your failure to relate to any of the issues presented makes the article 'trash' though. Your objections seem to be coming from somewhere else.

In particular, your empathy for the team trainer wanting to talk to the athletes in his native language:

Quote:

imagine that, the head trainer would rather them speak a language that he understands. i guess it makes sense, considering that he IS the head trainer.

demonstrates a sadly (and sadly typical, for you) one-dimensional perspective. Imagine the athletes--with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars invested in their bodies. If they're trying to talk to a trainer, it's because they're injured, and their livelihood may be at stake. The primary concern should be for them to articulate the problem, in whatever language they're best able to. The athletes themselves may or may not be able to put into words exactly what's wrong. The Rangers seem to have the situation addressed more or less--have a bilingual trainer there to help communicate. But given the variety of dialects involved, and depending on the assistant trainer's degree of bilingual proficiency, this may or not be adequate.

Beyond that the question of whether or not these players are discouraged from speaking Spanish was kind of up in the air. Showalter seems to think not, but his comments might suggest otherwise.

And while this issue is not new and has been written about before, you yourself unwittingly (as is usually the case with your observations) manage to relate the issue to the Mavericks, where the language issue is (or at least was)even more complex.

Et voila....you managed to take a tangentially relevant article, and make it relevant. I know you like to cultivate flippancy and anti-PC as part of your online 'persona', but there's really no need to try to be offensive and make yourself the ugly (and ignorant) American. That Denver gig must be getting boring, huh.

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:35 AM

alot of words, but nothing worth reading.

the head trainer speaks english and would prefer the players to speak english..however, he does allow other trainers to translate what the players are saying.

nothing more, nothing less...

i would prefer that everyone I speak to at work speak english. however, that is not possible so sometimes someone to act as a go-between is necessary.

imagine that. i don't speak spanish but i need someone to translate to help me understand when someone is speaking spanish?

hard to believe

i'd prefer them to speak english?

hard to believe

If this is the best article that jesse sanchez can come up with at this time of the year, he has issues as a writer

MavKikiNYC · 09-22-2003, 09:42 AM

No, there's way more to it, Murph. Either you don't get it, or you want to pretend not to get it. But you're not really adding much here either, so....

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 09:44 AM

Let's not insult the MurphMan, he brings up good points.
Why are we posting hispanic MLB articles when we should focus on the standings for the wild card, now that's exciting!

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 09:50 AM

which is exactly my point.
the article should be something that's brought up in spring training. It's a complete fluff article with little value.

if he has to write about the rangers, there's a ton of young kids to discuss

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 10:04 AM

if you agree with me mavsfanatik, why are you arguing against what you believe?
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 09-22-2003, 10:09 AM

I didn't read this article thoroughly, but I do have to question why this type of article is being written in September when it would seem that the baseball world should be focused on pennant races. As to whether the article has merit, it appears to me to be mostly a fluff piece, but even if it does, this is the type of article you'd expect to see during spring training or the early part of the season, not during the stretch run...

Jeremiah · 09-22-2003, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
i'm really, really not complaining about being picked on. i could care less. but, while doing so, at least address the article as well.

if you can combine the two..taking a shot at me while discussing the article at the same time.. go ahead. that would be lovely.

but at least address the article in some form or another

Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that you were expressing frustration from being picked on, nor that you thought you were being picked on. No buckshots fired from here. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 09-22-2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Et voila....you managed to take a tangentially relevant article, and make it relevant.

Good point.

BTW, culture is worth by itself, regardless of the activity, regardless of the times. Sports are entertaining, but are part of the culture, not the the other way around.

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 12:31 PM

and this article is so heavily involved in culture.

Chiwas · 09-22-2003, 12:52 PM

It's the context.

But not all can see it.

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 12:56 PM

the article is fluff..nothing more, nothing less
the writer mailed it in..collected his paycheck and probably felt bad afterwards because he was stealing money

Usually Lurkin · 09-22-2003, 04:48 PM

what's wrong with fluff?

Murphy, every message you post with yourself as the subject is fluff. Your fluff to substance ratio is very high as a result.

I hate baseball. I love to play it, but watching it is the most boring and pathetic excuse for entertainment we have here in America.

But the fact that there is an organization in Texas that's willing to adapt itself to more cultures than what MTV and Nike are cramming down our throats is encouraging. And maybe I'll watch a Rangers game with a little more interest than a desire to wait for good tv to come on.

Most importantly, I'm proud of the Hispanic heratige of Texas, and I'm glad MLB.com is selling that to the world for us.

Murphy3 · 09-22-2003, 04:52 PM

ul, i know your soul goal in life is to attack me..
but the article is garbage. if you want to defend garbage, go ahead

MavsFanatik33 · 09-22-2003, 05:24 PM

Ok, all Murph is doin is saying that the article is crap and I somewhat agree with him. Who cares about hispanic culture? This should be posted in the offseason when baseball is over. We're going through a tight playoff race right now, which is all they are talking about on ESPN. They aren't doin stories on hispanic baseball players. let's talk about who's gonna win the wild card, who's the top contender in the American league, stuff like that.