OFFICIAL: Deron Williams to Dallas!! - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SMC0007 · 07-10-2015, 09:23 AM

I'm telling you guys, stop with the wishful thinking of tanking. Look at Dirk, RC, Cuban, Mathews... you're gonna have to sit those guys all season. I don't think anyone is really using their heads about this. No one will come watch any games and even if it's a small piece of the picture, Cuban still has a business to run and fans to keep.

In the end if Dirk wants to play hard and give it a shot until he can't anymore in a Mavs jersey, that is the way it's going to be. I am almost positive that Dirk rang Cuban and sad, No sir.. I heard that you mentioned if no DJ we tank. No. Go get some guys.

DGM · 07-10-2015, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

I just cracked up laughing at that. I hope we won't be using all of our remaining cap space on him. Also I don't understand turning Mattews' contact into a max deal. That is just crazy.

There are mandatory minimums under the cap. Mavs had to spend the money. It won't matter much in the future as caps increase.

tsar · 07-10-2015, 09:25 AM

Maybe Cuban talked with Dirk and Dirk was like "Hell no I don't want to tank, hell no I don't want to be traded, and hell no I don't want a buyout to go play in a bitch ass Euroleague. Das ist mein Haus!"

This could be a pretty good defensive team provided people can stay healthy. Don't forget we still have Carlisle. I want us to get the 7-8 seed and face Clippers in round 1 *muahahha

Jon Avalon · 07-10-2015, 09:29 AM

This whole thing has been a big bi-polar rollercoaster. I get it for those that want to tank, I was somewhat on that fence yesterday. But you know what, don't fold now. Everyone says Jordan is a coward? well if you fold now you're giving DAJ and the Clippers exactly what they want. You can't be a coward in return and not compete, put a team together and just play ball! show some pride!

If Deron wants to come to the Mavs, open the doors let him in. I don't like him these days but if he really wants to come then sign him. He would be better than any of the options left unless we made a blockbuster trade.

Wang Zhi Zhi · 07-10-2015, 09:29 AM

The original "Big Fish". Plan Powder worked! Cuban was right all along.

BPo001 · 07-10-2015, 09:34 AM

A big part of me wants Cuban to tell him F U. You didn't want to sign 3 years ago. Why would we want you now that you're a washed up former shell of yourself. On the other hand we have one of the best training staffs in the NBA, tanking doesn't appear to be in the cards, and we have a huge hole for a starting PG why the hell not?

Murphy3 · 07-10-2015, 09:36 AM

There really is no way to tank at this point unless Matthews and Parsons cannot play the first half of the season and Dirk suffers some injuries.

bunkmoreland · 07-10-2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

There really is no way to tank at this point unless Matthews and Parsons cannot play the first half of the season and Dirk suffers some injuries.

Agreed.
The acquisition of ZaZa and the potential acquisition of Deron Williams definitely seem to point toward an attempt to make the playoffs.
If that is Dirk's call, I am fine with it.
I will be rooting for a first round matchup against the Dips.

Thebo · 07-10-2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

A big part of me wants Cuban to tell him F U. You didn't want to sign 3 years ago. Why would we want you now that you're a washed up former shell of yourself. On the other hand we have one of the best training staffs in the NBA, tanking doesn't appear to be in the cards, and we have a huge hole for a starting PG why the hell not?

Cuban already said all that 3 years ago. Remember, the whole Shark Tank fiasco... By all reports Cuban was the one not interested giving him the money and therefore didn't show up.

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

Cuban already said all that 3 years ago. Remember, the whole Shark Tank fiasco... By all reports Cuban was the one not interested giving him the money and therefore didn't show up.

Losing changes everything (for both parties).

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-10-2015, 09:52 AM

I think as long as Dirk and Rick are here Cuban has no choice but to try to be as competitive as possible. And frankly, how can you argue against that? I even admitted the other day that we should tank, but that was mere minutes after DJ punked us. Stepping back and reflecting, it's completely out of the question to tank as long as Dirk is here. Because Dirk took the pay cut, he's kind of in the driver's seat on this. He's the epitome of a franchise player and Cuban has to do what he wants. Hell, if Dirk had requested a trade, Cuban probably would have done it and tanked. Dirk didn't do that, so the plan is to compete for the 8th seed. It is what it is.

ocelot_ark · 07-10-2015, 10:26 AM

I'm completely on board with bringing in Williams on the cheap. Buy low, sell high. Williams could gain back a semblance of his all-star days under a new team. Perhaps he just needs a breath of fresh air? Having lived in NYC, I think it can get to people. Of course, it's not like that's been a great franchise full of stability and genius coaching.

DWill/JJ/Harris
Matthews/Anderson/Harris
Parsons/Jefferson
Dirk/Evans/Someone we sign in the coming days
ZaZa/Summer league standout

Not that I think it's a championship roster, but if DWill get right we've got a BARGAIN. Cory Joseph is getting $7.5MM/year for Christ's sake. If he's willing to take something below that, I think it's a no brainer.

The great thing about it is...if he DOES turn his career around then it really helps out the Mavs immensely. His ability to break down defenses and get open looks for our shooters could be huge. Squeezing blood from a turnip. Making things easier for Dirk, etc.

A big part of it boils down to what his new contract would look like. I'm all for giving him a second chance, but only if it's a reasonable deal. Nothing that would prevent us from signing someone like Horford.

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-10-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

I'm completely on board with bringing in Williams on the cheap. Buy low, sell high. Williams could gain back a semblance of his all-star days under a new team. Perhaps he just needs a breath of fresh air? Having lived in NYC, I think it can get to people. Of course, it's not like that's been a great franchise full of stability and genius coaching.

DWill/JJ/Harris
Matthews/Anderson/Harris
Parsons/Jefferson
Dirk/Evans/Someone we sign in the coming days
ZaZa/Summer league standout

Not that I think it's a championship roster, but if DWill get right we've got a BARGAIN. Cory Joseph is getting $7.5MM/year for Christ's sake. If he's willing to take something below that, I think it's a no brainer.

The great thing about it is...if he DOES turn his career around then it really helps out the Mavs immensely. His ability to break down defenses and get open looks for our shooters could be huge. Squeezing blood from a turnip. Making things easier for Dirk, etc.

A big part of it boils down to what his new contract would look like. I'm all for giving him a second chance, but only if it's a reasonable deal. Nothing that would prevent us from signing someone like Horford.

I think if the buyout is right then I don't think he's going to be too aggressive on his deal with the Mavs. I think the Nets owner Prokhorov has been trying to find buyers for the Nets for a while because it was a toxic investment to begin with. I think he's getting desperate and may just throw a pile of money at Williams to get him out of there. If so, I think Williams will be much more open to taking less (at least I hope).

Murphy3 · 07-10-2015, 10:42 AM

I think if you put Williams on a better team and ask him to be just a cog in the wheel, he can be more efficient. He's obviously not what he once was, but he can still be a solid NBA starting PG.

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think if you put Williams on a better team and ask him to be just a cog in the wheel, he can be more efficient. He's obviously not what he once was, but he can still be a solid NBA starting PG.

Would've been an amazing get if Jordan had signed here...

ocelot_ark · 07-10-2015, 10:45 AM

Even with his deterioration, his 3 pt shooting has remained steady...career at 36%. I like having a starting 5 that has 4 competent 3pt shooters.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

People should keep in mind that Dallas does wonders with washed up veterans. Carter was nothing when he joined Mavs. Became someone and once he joined Memphis he pretty much returned to nothing.

This is a little different situation. Deron should still be in his prime right now. His career in Brooklyn has been unfortunate. Injuries, numerous head coaches.......that shouldn't be a problem here with our training staff and Carlisle.

I hold grudges though lol. One of my biggest flaws as a person and I haven't forgot what he's done but being with how fresh what Deandre did to us...it almost seems like a distant memory.

yahyes · 07-10-2015, 10:49 AM

This could also play major influence on Deron working with Carlisle. He loves having vet experienced PG's.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Would've been an amazing get if Jordan had signed here...

That's all I can think about right now. You were looking at a potential playoff team with Jeremy Lin or Barea at your point. Deron even last season is better than those guys. With this team we'd ask more for Deron but this team will compete most nights. I can't say if they'll actually win but they won't roll over.

yahyes · 07-10-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think if you put Williams on a better team and ask him to be just a cog in the wheel, he can be more efficient. He's obviously not what he once was, but he can still be a solid NBA starting PG.

He's yet to be surrounded by high efficient shooters while in Brooklyn. Which killed his assist numbers. Robin Lopez was the closest. But that can be easily overlooked having Wes, Parsons, and Dirk.

howdoesmydirktaste · 07-10-2015, 10:54 AM

If we could have kept Chandler or landed Jordan, this would be a much different situation obviously. With Rondo, people left him wide open because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. While D-Will isn't an All Star anymore, he will still keep the D honest. And while he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head as much as Rondo does, he's still an awesome distributor of the ball (who will turn it over less). Overall, I would take an 80% version of D-Will over Rondo's quitting ass any day of the week.

If we can make up for Ellis' scoring and figure something out at center why couldn't we be as good as last year (yes, first round exit, I know)? But if it works out and we have a lot of money to land a big free agent next season, you never know.

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

This is a little different situation. Deron should still be in his prime right now. His career in Brooklyn has been unfortunate. Injuries, numerous head coaches.......that shouldn't be a problem here with our training staff and Carlisle.

Weren't we saying this the last time we tried to sign him, except that he was slumping in Utah instead of Brooklyn?

Dude has been in a slump for half of his career now...

Murphy3 · 07-10-2015, 11:01 AM

I don't expect him to be what he once was..just expect him to be better than what he showed last year.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Weren't we saying this the last time we tried to sign him, except that he was slumping in Utah instead of Brooklyn?

Dude has been in a slump for half of his career now...

Like Murph said, i'm not saying he'll be what he was when he was considered a top 3 point guard. But he should be better than last year and last year he was inconsistent but decent.

And i'm assuming all of this is with minimal risk and pay. A show and prove type deal.

I'm not against tanking myself but I don't think this organization will do that to Dirk. They are not going to field a 20 win team out there with Dirk. Not intentionally anyway. I think its wishful thinking. I'll believe they would tank once I see Dirk leave this team. But they are going to field a decent team out there to atleast try to get to 41 wins.

Skywalker · 07-10-2015, 11:15 AM

Hell. If at a reasonable price, why the f*ck not

Thespiralgoeson · 07-10-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunkmoreland

Agreed.
The acquisition of ZaZa and the potential acquisition of Deron Williams definitely seem to point toward an attempt to make the playoffs.
If that is Dirk's call, I am fine with it.
I will be rooting for a first round matchup against the Dips.

Yeah, I'm just crossing my fingers to watch my team get ass-raped by the Clippers again. That sounds awesome...

mavs777 · 07-10-2015, 12:07 PM

People need to realize that Carlisle only has 1 year left on his deal. He is one of the best coaches in the NBA, and does not want to go through a rebuilding process, it's probably a big reason why we overpaid to make sure Wes came here. Losing him would be a major blow to the organization.

Outside the Carlisle/dirk owe factor tanking makes a ton of sense it really does but keeping Carlisle has to be a huge priority

Windmill360 · 07-10-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

People need to realize that Carlisle only has 1 year left on his deal. He is one of the best coaches in the NBA, and does not want to go through a rebuilding process, it's probably a big reason why we overpaid to make sure Wes came here. Losing him would be a major blow to the organization.

Outside the Carlisle/dirk owe factor tanking makes a ton of sense it really does but keeping Carlisle has to be a huge priority

I dont know that it works the same way for coaches. Obviously their careers can last a lot longer than a players career can. Players only get a few years at best to be in their "prime". Sure coaches probably dont like to lose, but its not like they can pick up and get another head job on a contending team just like that.

Kidd Karma · 07-10-2015, 12:16 PM

Nice pickup. It's an upgrade, I'm thinking Kidd's 2nd tour here, veteran savvy, 3 point shooter, using his basketball smarts, rather than relying on athleticism.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

I dont know that it works the same way for coaches. Obviously their careers can last a lot longer than a players career can. Players only get a few years at best to be in their "prime". Sure coaches probably dont like to lose, but its not like they can pick up and get another head job on a contending team just like that.

I agree but we all know Carlisle hates playing young players. I just can't see him coaching through a rebuilding phase. I think he'd retire first but being he only has 1 year left......I expect him to be gone by next year anyway.

Carlisle has coached some overachieving teams here......and I think he knows once Dirk is gone its going to get ugly if it hasn't already.

EastTxMFFL · 07-10-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

A big part of me wants Cuban to tell him F U. You didn't want to sign 3 years ago. Why would we want you now that you're a washed up former shell of yourself. On the other hand we have one of the best training staffs in the NBA, tanking doesn't appear to be in the cards, and we have a huge hole for a starting PG why the hell not?

But Deron didn't wrong us in any way. Cuban is the one who didn't really care if he signed or not.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastTxMFFL

But Deron didn't wrong us in any way. Cuban is the one who didn't really care if he signed or not.

Yeah that's how I remember it as well. He went to the team that paid him the most money and if i'm not mistaken he didn't even show up to the meeting did he? Didn't he put Shark Tank over Deron?

If you want an example of being done wrong go see Deandre.

DirkFTW · 07-10-2015, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Sure coaches probably dont like to lose, but its not like they can pick up and get another head job on a contending team just like that.

"So let it be written, so let it be done. Whew!"

Dnowit41 · 07-10-2015, 12:37 PM

Bring him back. Who else do we have left to turn to anyway?

Underdog · 07-10-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I agree but we all know Carlisle hates playing young players.

This narrative doesn't reflect the reality at all...

Barea, Wright, Aminu, Crowder: = young guys that Rick gets zero credit for developing into real NBA players.

Roddy, DoJo, Larkin = young guys who gave Rick the reputation of "hating young players" because he couldn't polish a turd.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

This narrative doesn't reflect the reality at all...

Barea, Wright, Aminu, Crowder: = young guys that Rick gets zero credit for developing into real NBA players.

Roddy, DoJo, Larkin = young guys who gave Rick the reputation of "hating young players" because he couldn't polish a turd.

Brandon Wright and Aminu were vets before coming here. I'd love to give him credit for playing Crowder and Barea but only 2 guys out of his whole tenure is not very many.

I'm speaking of rookies.

Why else would you trade all of your draft picks in favor of veterans?

Even Aminu should've got more playing time than he did last year.

Skywalker · 07-10-2015, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

This narrative doesn't reflect the reality at all...

Barea, Wright, Aminu, Crowder: = young guys that Rick gets zero credit for developing into real NBA players.

Roddy, DoJo, Larkin = young guys who gave Rick the reputation of "hating young players" because he couldn't polish a turd.

Christ, UD. You shouldn't let something irrelevant like truth get in the way of a good narrative...

DGM · 07-10-2015, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

I'm completely on board with bringing in Williams on the cheap. Buy low, sell high. Williams could gain back a semblance of his all-star days under a new team. Perhaps he just needs a breath of fresh air? Having lived in NYC, I think it can get to people. Of course, it's not like that's been a great franchise full of stability and genius coaching.

DWill/JJ/Harris
Matthews/Anderson/Harris
Parsons/Jefferson
Dirk/Evans/Someone we sign in the coming days
ZaZa/Summer league standout

Not that I think it's a championship roster, but if DWill get right we've got a BARGAIN. Cory Joseph is getting $7.5MM/year for Christ's sake. If he's willing to take something below that, I think it's a no brainer.

The great thing about it is...if he DOES turn his career around then it really helps out the Mavs immensely. His ability to break down defenses and get open looks for our shooters could be huge. Squeezing blood from a turnip. Making things easier for Dirk, etc.

A big part of it boils down to what his new contract would look like. I'm all for giving him a second chance, but only if it's a reasonable deal. Nothing that would prevent us from signing someone like Horford.

the someone behind dirk and evans is powell

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2015, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Christ, UD. You shouldn't let something irrelevant like truth get in the way of a good narrative...

But its not truth though.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-10-2015, 01:11 PM

Well Crowder and Aminu were definitely the re-ignition of developing young players. Their value skyrocketed as well.