A definitive bush side of military service.

[dude1394]

I don't know what it will take for the people (ahem reeds) to actually objectively look at bush's record. But here is as good of one as I've seen.

actual facts about military service

The Bush Mythology

I've written rather extensively about the John Kerry/Christmas in Cambodia mythology, and that appears to be exactly what it is. Even by his own journal, he spent Christmas 1968 in Sa Dec, which was more than 50 miles from the Cambodian border. Three of his five crew members deny ever going into Cambodia (the other two won't comment), and one of them even explains that the boat Kerry commanded couldn't possibly have made it into Cambodia due to the anti-incursive obstacles planted in the area. Not only that, but even a Swiftboat could hardly cruise 60 miles out and 60 miles back, in hostile territory, in time for Kerry to have visions of sugarplums dancing in his head, as he put in his journal at the time.

But as I've written about the efforts of the Swiftvets in attempting to correct the record, a number of commenters have insisted on arguing not the merits of the case, but instead engaging in ad hominem attacks on the Swift vets and George Bush. The same people who castigate me for casting aspersions on the record of a decorated vet (Kerry) have no difficulty doing the same to 200+ vets with nothing at stake in this election except their reputations, which to me is the height f hypocrisy, but that's why we have these debates.

However, there are those who continue to operate under the delusion that George Bush was a deserter (the first to get an honorable discharge) whose daddy paid off people to get him into the TANG so that he could avoid Viet Nam. For some reason, even though this was thoroughly debunked early in the last election cycle, it got exhumed with a flourish in this one. Al Gore avoided getting involved in it in 2000, but this time both Terry McAuliffe and John Kerry have personally pushed this story forward for months.

Too bad they can't read the news, because this was debunked in 1999:

In its report, the Los Angeles Times said it found no evidence that either Bush or his father, former President George Bush, had personally tried to influence or pressure anyone to get the younger Bush a place in the Texas Guard. Bush's father was a congressman from Houston at the time.

But the Times also found that despite a long waiting list nationwide, Bush easily got in the Guard and received a commission as a second lieutenant, despite lacking the credentials many other candidates had, such as ROTC experience. He also had no previous aviation experience. ...

However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into Bush's military record, reported that while Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing and qualified to spend more than a year in active training flying F-102 jets.

This year, after Kerry paraded his "band of brothers" on the campaign trail, everyone kept asking Bush why he had no group of admiring veterans from his days in the National Guard -- which as any Guard member could have explained, service dates are too random to form many lasting ties. However, no one seems to have paid attention to CNN when they reported on Guardsmen who recalled Bush's service:

On Friday, a retired officer with the Alabama Air National Guard told CNN that he witnessed Bush serving his weekend duty in 1972 -- an account that could be significant given the persistent Democratic questions.

Speaking Friday from Daytona Beach, Florida, John B. "Bill" Calhoun said he commanded Bush and that Bush attended four to six weekend drills at Dannelly Field in Montgomery. He said Bush was with the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in Alabama in 1972.

The drills consisted of eight-hour shifts Saturdays and Sundays, Calhoun said.

"We didn't have the planes that he could fly," Calhoun said. "But he studied his manuals, he read flying safety regulations, accident reports -- things pilots do quite often when they are not getting ready to fly or if they don't have other duties."

Or the Birmingham (AL) News, when they also reported on witnesses to Bush's service:

Joe LeFevers, a member of the 187th in 1972, said he remembers seeing Bush in unit offices and being told that Bush was in Montgomery to work on Blount's campaign.

"I was going in the orderly room over there one day, and they said, `This is Lt. Bush,'" LeFevers said Tuesday. "They pointed him out to me ... the reason I remember it is because I associate him with Red Blount."

Or this confirmation that Bush volunteered for Operation Palace Alert, which would have sent him to Viet Nam in combat had he been accepted:

A former senior Virginia Air National Guard commander, who served with George W. Bush in the Texas Air Guard, says Bush volunteered for Vietnam combat service but was turned down because he did not have the required flight experience. ...

According to Campenni, Bush inquired about participating in a volunteer program called Palace Alert that used Air National Guard pilots flying in the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor jet in Vietnam.

The Air Guard advised Bush he did not have the desired 500 hours of flight time as a pilot to qualify for Palace Alert duty, and, in any event, the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.

For some reason, even though George Bush has never made much out of his time in the TANG, his opponents this year have attempted to smear him with various factually-deficient charges of desertion and draft-dodging, even though Bush flew a notoriously dangerous fighter jet in home-defense missions. They have built up a mythology of Bush the Deserter, Bush the Dodger, Bush the Evil, because mythology is how they lived their own lives.

As we watch the Christmas in Cambodia mythology disintegrate before our very eyes, taking with it John Kerry's entire supposed motivation for his disenchantment with the war and the US government, Kerry has been exposed as an unprincipled phony, using bits and pieces of other people's lives to build his own resume. The subset of people supporting Kerry by using the Bush mythology may prove just as resistant to reality as John Kerry and Terry McAuliffe (and Michael Moore, et al), because they'd rather live in their fantasy world where everything wrong in the universe can be traced back to Evil W. Terrorism? George Bush provoked it, and even if he didn't, he's covering up for Saudi air-force pilots who really committed 9/11 in order to control world oil output. WMDs? George Bush made it all up, even though the same data led Congress to declare regime change the official American policy in 1998, and even the French and German intelligence agencies believed them to exist in large quantities. It's beyond irrational; it approaches schizophrenia.

Fortunately, the rational outnumber the irrational, even among Democrats, and after the shock they receive from realizing the decades-long deception Kerry has foisted upon them, they will retreat back to reality. Let's hope that happens before they put this serial prevaricator into the White House.

[Drbio]

Great read dude. Thanks.

[LRB]

Dude you're just soooooo wrong. I'm terribly dissappointed in you. You were one of the people who I thought got it. Can't believe the crap coming out of your mouth. You're so full of it. The very idea of insinuating that Reeds is a person. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Seriously, great article. I doubt that these facts will do any to convince anyone who is swallowing the Michael Moore Koolaid though.

[Chiwas]

A definitive bush side of military service.

I thought I had read "A definitive bush aside of military service". Dang evils.

[sturm und drang]

Whether or not Bush Sr. helped W get an appointment is, frankly, a red herring.

The real issue is that he elected to join the National Guard to dodge having to go fight that horrible war in Vietnam.

You guys can nit-pick and scoff at the minutiae of Kerry's days of service, but the real issue is this: Kerry went. Kerry didn't attempt to wiggle his way out of his duty. Kerry fought in that terrible hell-hole while Flyboy was doing all he could to avoid it.

[LRB]

So according to you Sturm, everyone who joined the national guard, reserves, or even joined the regular military and applied for noncombat positions or ones which would keep them out of Vietnam were dodging their duty? While those you inflicted wounds upon themselves, applied for purple hearts without their CO's consent or even knowledge, and used loopholes to cut their service time in Vietname by more than 2/3 of the time they agreed to serve are doing their duty?

That's just flat out and unequivocably wrong in my book. Bush volunteered to serve his country and protect it in the Air Naitonal guard. He volunteered for danngerous duty, flying one of the most dangerous aircraft in our arsenal. When the going got tough, he stayed the course (unlike Kerry). Bush volunteered for Vietnam combat duty and was denied the privilege of serving.

I'll give Kerry credit in that he did try. But when he saw how tough it really was he ran like a scared rabbit back to his momma leaving his crewmates and others he was serving with to do his part for him.

The air National guard was and is an important part of our defense. I find it despicable that you would brand all who served there during the Vietnam error as draft dodgers solely because they chose that service over volunteering for the Air Force, Marines, Army, or Navy or waiting around to be drafted. Remember not everyone was drafted.

BTW since no one on submarines saw combat in Vietnam, does that mean that all who volunteered to be submariners were trying to wiggle out of doing their duty?

[sturm und drang]

LRB, I never called him a draft dodger. But yes, I think that he and the countless others who joined the National Guard were, quite obviously, doing so to avoid being sent to Vietnam.

And just so you know, my father did exactly the same. And damn it, I'm glad he did. He'll tell you straight-up that he and his comrades did that to avoid the slaughterhouse.

But you can't, you simply can't, sit back and say that Bush's service in the National Guard was heroic or even particularly dangerous. Flying combat fighters over Texas? "When the going got tough, he stayed the course." What? When did the going get tough? At the post-fly happy hours after all those Saturday missions? On the weekend drive to/from his home in Houston?

Sorry, but equating National Guard to combat service in Vietnam is ludicrous. I have no problem with what Bush did. But to endlessly degrade Kerry for his active combat service while holding up Bush as a paragon of patriotism and tenacity.. is just ridiculous. And apocryphal.

[reeds]

"The real issue is that he elected to join the National Guard to dodge having to go fight that horrible war in Vietnam"

EXACTALLY- as I have been saying all along...

[LRB]

Did what Bush did equate to those who flew combat missions over Vietnam as being dangerous, certainly not. However to say that flying a high performance military jet and pushing it to the envelope and possibly beyond of it's performance in mock combat flight is not dangerous is just plain stupid. Bush's aircraft had one of the highest if not the highest accident and fatality rates of all aircraft in service at that time. Flying any type of aircraft is inherently dangerous under the best of conditions and requires tons of prepartaion and safty procedures to mitigate that danger. However unlike civilian air liners, cargo planes, and most small air craft flights, military combat training flights do not stick to the tried and true procedures for the safest flight. They push the envelope to prepare the pilots when they will not only be flying but being shot at while doing so and needing to take evasive manuvers not to be shot. They fly faster, lower and higher, closer to other aircraft than what would be the usual safety guidlines. They pull acrobatic manuvers, tight turns, rolls, etc. They spit their attention between flying and targeting other aircraft, vehicles, or fixed targets. This is not an inherently safe activity or anywhere close to it. The casualties prove it.

Additionally Bush volunteered to go and serve in Vietnam but his request was denied. Is Bush a paragon of patriotism and tenacity because of his service in the Air National Guard. I wouldn't say so and neither is the Bush campaign. In fact it's pretty much a nonissue with his campaign. They certainly didn't make it a center piece of their campaign as Kerry did his military service. But Bush did provide a needed service in defense of his country. He did fully fulfill his commitment and did not use any loopholes to shorten that commitment. Bush did put his life at risk much more than many others during his military service. And once he saw that risk, he didn't shirk nor attempt to shirk his duty.

Kerry did volunteer to serve in the Navy, which is admirable. He chose to serve with the swift boats which is admirable. He deployed to Vietnam which is admirable. But then some behavior began which was not admirable. He tried to apply for medals which it is highly doubtful that he deserved. He applied for these medals over his CO's objections and behind his CO's back. He used a legal technicality to escape his commitment to serve in Vietnam and shirk his duty. He later lied about his service in Vietnam to gain political advantage. According to many who served in the same unit with Kerry, including all his CO's, he was not a very fit combat officer. Apparently when Kerry saw the realities of combat, he took the 1st opportunity to remove himself from danger. Kerry apparently lied about his fellow servicemen and provided the enemy with propaganda which was used to torture our servicemen held captive. Kerry denounced the Vietnam war and any part that he played in it as being full of atrocities and just flat out wrong. Yet now he wants to be reguarded as a"paragon of patriotism and tenacity" for what he did in less than a handful of months in Vietnam. Kerry is a liar, a hypocrit, and a coward.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: reeds
"The real issue is that he elected to join the National Guard to dodge having to go fight that horrible war in Vietnam"

EXACTALLY- as I have been saying all along...

Of course this explains why he volunteered to fly combat missions in Vietnam. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[Chiwas]

Kerry is a liar, a hypocrit, and a coward.

He might be a liar or hypocrit, I don't know it, but the least that he is, is to be a coward; even if we believe the -absurd- faked wounds story, it is needed courage to do it.

C'mon, he was a hero -among others- as a soldier. If he threw away the medals, he did it AFTER he earned them. He fought for his country, facing personally the enemy (and the knifes, bullets, granades, RPG's, snakes, bugs, humidity, hungry, fear); he didn't piss his pants. I can't believe that politics undermines this. America can't be so divided.

To be a war hero has nothing to do with politics. I know he has called his participation in Viet Nam and the medals for his campaign, but it is his problem, not of the people that now "can live freely thanks to its soldiers", regardless of their party inclination.

[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: Chiwas

To be a war hero has nothing to do with politics

When you are attempting to become the President of the United States of America, it has EVERYTHING to do with it!

[LRB]

Chiwas Kerry manipulated his way out of serving his full commitment. One of his medals was for shooting a guy in the back while running away. Cowardness is showing ignobility in the face of danger. Kerry certainly appears to have done this. And I see nothing absurd about Kerry's faked or self inflicted wounds. Why doesn't Kerry release his military records to public scrutiny if it's so absurd and prove everyone wrong? It certainly appears as if Kerry is hiding a log of secrets.

Kerry did more damage against his country than he ever did for it in the Vietnam war. His antiwar actions and lies were the means to psychologically torture hundreds of our servicemen who were POWs. Kerry lied to gain political advantage and caused tremendous harm to US servicemen by doing so. Remember Benedict Arnold at one time fought for his country and much more valiently than Kerry ever imagined doing so. Still in the end, Arnold betrayed his country for personal gain just as Kerry did.

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: sturm und drang
Whether or not Bush Sr. helped W get an appointment is, frankly, a red herring.

The real issue is that he elected to join the National Guard to dodge having to go fight that horrible war in Vietnam.

You guys can nit-pick and scoff at the minutiae of Kerry's days of service, but the real issue is this: Kerry went. Kerry didn't attempt to wiggle his way out of his duty. Kerry fought in that terrible hell-hole while Flyboy was doing all he could to avoid it.

That is actually several issues. I will not scoff at Kerry's days of service as long he does not embelish them. I will not challenge what Kerry says about his time in 'nam to the extent he doesn't make stuff up. It is really rather simple.

Bush did pretty much anything he could to avoid Vietnam. I think that is clear. That he volunteered to go over there as a pilot is news to me. Maybe true; maybe not. But the general notion that someone would say they were willing to go to Vietnam, but only as a pilot and would undertake joining the national guard to learn to fly a fighter plane knowing full well that the USAF was not willing to teach a mid-20's Yalee how to fly does not strike me as implausible. So, it may be true.

The only related issue between the service, or lack there of, of the respective candidates that is being raised in this "blog" is that the media is dismissive of the "Unfit for Command" book, because they find the claims unsubstantiated, while at the same time present the issue of Bush being AWOL from the national guard every three months or so when there is perhaps even less evidence to support that charge.

[dude1394]

I'm sure lots of folks tried to get out of the military then. For example my brother joined and signed a contract that sent him to germany to not serve in combat.

I've also read that kerry was trying to get a deferment after college to go study in paris for 12 months. You could argue that just being in college was a "deferment".