The Pot, The Kettle, and the Vegan

[wmbwinn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...03126.html?g=0

I find this article very amusing.

1)children are off limits unless you are Sarah Palin
2)"it is not successful if the White House hates you"?????
3)this Administration cannot tolerate even silly criticism like this...

I personally think that forcing a Vegan menu into public schools is ridiculous. But, the article causes me a great deal of amusement...

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...03126.html?g=0

I find this article very amusing.

1)children are off limits unless you are Sarah Palin

really? did the palin children get used in a publicity campaign such as this? no? any campaign? no again?

you point lacks credibility.

2)"it is not successful if the White House hates you"?????

this org is attempting to get legislation passd, and it would be darn obvious that pissing off the white house would doom that attempt.

3)this Administration cannot tolerate even silly criticism like this...

the first family will not tolerate their kids being exploited like this, and I can't blame them.

I personally think that forcing a Vegan menu into public schools is ridiculous. But, the article causes me a great deal of amusement...

there should be appropriate choices for all students. I can't believe that the school lunchroom is void of vegetable dishes. if it is, than yes they should alter their menu and offer some.

that's just easy, just like altering the menu to get rid of fatty foods.

[wmbwinn]

Mavdog, are you embarassed at all by the ineptness and complete dishonesty of your post?

[Mavdog]

no, but I'm embarrassed for this site by the shallowness of your response.

[wmbwinn]

does anyone out here in Mavs Land think that Sarah Palin's children were not abused and used to slander the campaign effort of McCain/Palin???

does anyone besides Mavdog think that I need to waste my time going back over recent history regarding the Palin children???

[wmbwinn]

Special interest groups never worry about pissing off the guys/gals in charge. They seek to use various tactics to embarass or otherwise cause their agenda to be considered.

Making the powers that be mad is part of the game.

Did it not work well for the various special interest groups opposed to GW Bush to piss him off and attack him???

What is funny here is that Master Obama expects arse kissing and no protest. Community Organizers succeed by many tactics and one of them is serious protest. But, the Lead Community Organizer does not tolerate any ridicule

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

really? did the palin children get used in a publicity campaign such as this? no? any campaign? no again?

you point lacks credibility.

I've seen you use this tactic before. Emphasize the minute differences between the two cases, and pretend that magically validates one and invalidates the other.

there should be appropriate choices for all students.

My religious beliefs forbid me from eating anything other than sushi and prime rib.

[wmbwinn]

How do you define the word "exploited" in your sentence that the children were exploited????

They were not attacked. They were not made to feel embarassed. They were not ridiculed.

The message was simple: Rich kids get one thing and poor kids get another.

Actually, the message is very interesting. It is similar to the "Senators" and "Representatives" getting the Federal Employee's Union Healthcare Plan by exempting themselves from taking the "Public Option" they are advertising that is so good for the rest of us....

Rich kids get one thing. Poor kids get another...

[wmbwinn]

And, would you really think it important to waste tax payers money to put a Vegan menu into public schools????

I want every reader in Mavs' Land who would have eaten a Vegan menu in grade school, middle school, or high school to post here that they would have eaten a Vegan menu at school if it had been offered....

No one in this advertising ploy said that the schools lacked vegetables. Actually, it is my memory in public school that every meal came with vegetables.

The issue is that these Vegan nuts think that the meals should have no meat and should have bean curd substitutes instead....

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I've seen you use this tactic before. Emphasize the minute differences between the two cases, and pretend that magically validates one and invalidates the other.

odd, it seems that a black/white, either/or is anything but "minute".

My religious beliefs forbid me from eating anything other than sushi and prime rib.

good, prepare it at home and bring it to school for lunch.

that's what kids who follow kashrut (kosher) law do.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

does anyone out here in Mavs Land think that Sarah Palin's children were not abused and used to slander the campaign effort of McCain/Palin???

does anyone besides Mavdog think that I need to waste my time going back over recent history regarding the Palin children???

nice cop out. well done.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

good, prepare it at home and bring it to school for lunch.

that's what kids who follow kashrut (kosher) law do.

I think you just talked yourself into a corner here.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I think you just talked yourself into a corner here.

only if you demand to eat sushi and prime rib for lunch....

[Dirkadirkastan]

So where would you draw the line exactly? When does "there should be appropriate choices for all students" turn into "prepare it at home and bring it to school for lunch"?

[Mavdog]

if the school offers vegetables, they are providing choices for the vegetarians and vegans.

if they aren't offering vegetables, they should.

vegetables are an important part of good nutrition.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I want every reader in Mavs' Land who would have eaten a Vegan menu in grade school, middle school, or high school to post here that they would have eaten a Vegan menu at school if it had been offered....

These are different times, so I'm not sure the point you are trying to make is even relevant. Whether *you* like it or not, and whether *you* think it's silly or not, it remains that some significant portion of people these days is interested in vegetarian meals.

If your point is that no one is going to even want the vegetarian options anyway, then it shouldn't costs the schools much to cater to such a small population...so what's the big deal? If you can accommodate the request quite cheaply, why not go ahead and do it?

[Dirkadirkastan]

I think we should just declare school cafeterias as unconstitutional and abolish them.

[Mavdog]

^ that certainly should be the case for the so called chicken fried steak they served. cruel and unusual punishment to be forced to eat 'em.

[Flacolaco]

My biggest problem with that article is that that idiot seems to be equating vegetarian meals with "healthy options."

I don't know about you guys, but when I was in school (public school) they always had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches if you wanted one...Even when I went to middle school in east Los Angeles.

And I'm not sure about this either:

"The direct comparison is: You have affluent children with access to healthy foods, and disadvantaged children have the same rights to the same kinds of healthy meals as affluent kids. And we are fighting for that fairness, so we felt that making that statement as directly as we could was important."

Do Obama's kids go to public school? I'm pretty sure they don't. Kids that go to public school in no way have the same "right" to the same food that parents pay for at private school. What a ridiculous thing to say.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

^ that certainly should be the case for the so called chicken fried steak they served. cruel and unusual punishment to be forced to eat 'em.

Are you kidding me? To this day I have fond memories of the steak fingers they served at my school. With mashed potatoes and gravy...mmm. And the rolls...man, those rolls were good. You could buy extra ones for fifteen cents each. My friends and I got in the habit of doing that regularly, and also praising the lunch ladies for their oh-so-delicious rolls. It got to where they would see us coming and pull out a full tray of rolls fresh from the oven. We usually bought three or four. Damn, those were some fine lunches.

[Flacolaco]

Second on the chicken fried steak, chum. Particularly here in the LISD. I have fond memories of it.

[Mavdog]

this was in the lubbock isd, and believe they did not use steak. not even sure if it was beef at all, at best some sort of processed beef by products...stuff was probably rejected from the hot dog bin...

[Dirkadirkastan]

It's good to see a political thread finally take a productive turn.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

if the school offers vegetables, they are providing choices for the vegetarians and vegans.

if they aren't offering vegetables, they should.

vegetables are an important part of good nutrition.

Even in the stone ages when I was in school, vegetables were served with all meals. We didn't have breakfast at school back then. You ate breakfast at home. I don't think I ate a lot of vegetables for breakfast. But, anyway, the school meals always had vegetables...

so, the arguement you are making is without basis if you are saying that vegetables are missing in school lunches.

The article was not making the arguement you are making. the article was stating that a Vegan meal had to be an option. If you know what that means, then you understand that your arguement is not the same as the article (or the group's arguement in that silly ad). Vegans believe that meat should not be served. Thus, a Vegan meal would be all vegetables including those with protein as a substitute for meat.

That is entirely different and would constitute a significant increase in the bill for food at school. Vegan meat substitutes are not so cheap...

[wmbwinn]

Generally agree with the posts of Flacolaco and Chumdawg above.

Still don't see anyone out here screaming for Vegan meals...

And, no one has come forward either to say that the Palin children were treated better than the Obama children....

What is funny to me is that the group seeking Vegan meals has never had a better opportunity to possibly get what they want. Can you imagine that group going after Bush for Vegan meals in public schools???? That would be funny and Bush would offer to sell them some cattle....

So, the 'awful' criticizers of Master Obama are the same fringe groups that generally support Obama...

All very funny to me.

I posted this thread because the whole article was hilarious to me in the first place...

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Vegan meat substitutes are not so cheap...

Two things:

1) Cite? Are you certain they are prohibitively more expensive?

2) Weren't you just saying, upthread, that nobody would want the vegan stuff anyway? Let's see..."How much will it cost us to provide besically zero of these meals?"...

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Two things:

1) Cite? Are you certain they are prohibitively more expensive?

2) Weren't you just saying, upthread, that nobody would want the vegan stuff anyway? Let's see..."How much will it cost us to provide besically zero of these meals?"...

Most Vegan meat substitutes are food products like snack bars or bean curd products or similar products. they are not cheap.

Now, Vegans divide themselves on what a Vegan exactly is. Some Vegans will eat eggs. Eggs are cheap.

The cost to feed zero Vegans is the cost of producing unnecessary legislation, hiring people to go check to see if the zero lunches were provided, etc. The cost is the administration of a stupid law. And, the cost is the lawsuit when that one Vegan found that the school did not have a meat substitute for lunch the day they wanted it...

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

The cost to feed zero Vegans is the cost of producing unnecessary legislation, hiring people to go check to see if the zero lunches were provided, etc. The cost is the administration of a stupid law. And, the cost is the lawsuit when that one Vegan found that the school did not have a meat substitute for lunch the day they wanted it...

It doesn't need to be a law. (Why does everything have to be a law?) The association of school districts can simply decide that it is a good idea to offer vegetarian options to those who may wish to avail themselves.

For what it's worth, I myself am involved with several public school functions. When there is a meal to be served (sometimes catered out from a place like Jason's Deli, sometimes from a school cafeteria), there is almost always a vegetarian option.

In other words, it is evidently not that big a deal. So why the fuss over it? Offer up some vegetarian options and be done with it. That's what restaurants do, after all. This is really not that complicated.

Where it starts to get complicated is when folks take the stance that: [You can't tell us that we HAVE to offer up vegetarian stuff. Get your government out of our ass!]

The logical extrapolation of that line of reasoning is the scenario where schools serve manna every day...every...single...day. And you better damn like it.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Even in the stone ages when I was in school, vegetables were served with all meals. We didn't have breakfast at school back then. You ate breakfast at home. I don't think I ate a lot of vegetables for breakfast. But, anyway, the school meals always had vegetables...

so, the arguement you are making is without basis if you are saying that vegetables are missing in school lunches.

uh, no, the "arguement" (sic) that I'm putting forth is the schools should be providing healthy lunches, and vegetables are a basic item in healthy eating.

I actually posted above "I can't believe that the school lunchroom is void of vegetable dishes". you must have missed that.

The article was not making the arguement you are making. the article was stating that a Vegan meal had to be an option. If you know what that means, then you understand that your arguement is not the same as the article (or the group's arguement in that silly ad). Vegans believe that meat should not be served. Thus, a Vegan meal would be all vegetables including those with protein as a substitute for meat.

That is entirely different and would constitute a significant increase in the bill for food at school. Vegan meat substitutes are not so cheap...

odd, I know several vegans, and they don't try to prevent other people from using or consuming animal products, they just practice veganism themselves. they might go off on a rant every now and then, yet they don't campaign about "meat should not be served".

I don't believe you understand the difference between a vegan and a vegetarian......

[Flacolaco]

I wonder what percentage of 8 year olds being raised vegan go off to school and get that first taste of a pepperoni pizza and then...

[DirkFTW]

[92bDad]

Has anyone ever pointed out that meat is nothing more than processed vegetables?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It doesn't need to be a law. (Why does everything have to be a law?) The association of school districts can simply decide that it is a good idea to offer vegetarian options to those who may wish to avail themselves.

For what it's worth, I myself am involved with several public school functions. When there is a meal to be served (sometimes catered out from a place like Jason's Deli, sometimes from a school cafeteria), there is almost always a vegetarian option.

In other words, it is evidently not that big a deal. So why the fuss over it? Offer up some vegetarian options and be done with it. That's what restaurants do, after all. This is really not that complicated.

Where it starts to get complicated is when folks take the stance that: [You can't tell us that we HAVE to offer up vegetarian stuff. Get your government out of our ass!]

The logical extrapolation of that line of reasoning is the scenario where schools serve manna every day...every...single...day. And you better damn like it.

People dont start special interest groups to lobby to Congress and the White House when they just want people to act on their own accord to be nice to each other and offer Vegan meals to Vegans...

they want a law...

[wmbwinn]

Mavdog, you need more protein and its accompanying B12 in your diet to support brain function.

Your last post attacks me for things that I did not even say. I never said that the Vegan Special Interest Group intended for non Vegans to be forced to not have an animal product/meat on their lunch tray.

Geez...

I only said that the special interest group wants a law that requires public schools to make Vegan meals available to Vegans... and that that means they get a non meat meal...

Mavdog:

the "arguement" (sic) that I'm putting forth is the schools should be providing healthy lunches, and vegetables are a basic item in healthy eating.

I actually posted above "I can't believe that the school lunchroom is void of vegetable dishes". you must have missed that.

Again, a problem with mental function is present here...

I said that the school lunches already include vegetables...

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Mavdog, you need more protein and its accompanying B12 in your diet to support brain function.

so your opinion is that a diet without meat cannot adequately sustain a person?

Your last post attacks me for things that I did not even say. I never said that the Vegan Special Interest Group intended for non Vegans to be forced to not have an animal product/meat on their lunch tray.

Geez...

I only said that the special interest group wants a law that requires public schools to make Vegan meals available to Vegans... and that that means they get a non meat meal...

"attacks"?? you've developed a very thin skin william.

you posted "Vegans believe that meat should not be served." did you mean something different than what you wrote?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm also interested in your campaign to make martyrs of palin and her kids.

first you said "does anyone out here in Mavs Land think that Sarah Palin's children were not abused and used to slander the campaign effort of McCain/Palin??"

but that became "And, no one has come forward either to say that the Palin children were treated better than the Obama children...."

those seem to be 2 seperate questions..

the answer is yes, I do believe the children were not abused (btw, "abused" has an interesting connotation in these days/times and generally it reflects on the parents), far from it, and I also do not believe the palin children were used to slander the campaign effort.

and no, the palin children were not treated better than the obama children, they were treated pretty much the same.

except of course the promiscuous one, bristol, who due to her lack of making the correct choice was treated differently than the other kids. iow people talked about her, the fact that her actions were in direct opposition to what her momma was out there championing, etc.

can you show anything different?

[wmbwinn]

A B12 deficiency is a common problem in Vegans. B12 is vital to the function of the neurological system.

If you are a Vegan or Vegetarian or otherwise limit your meat intake, I would recommend you take a vitamin supplement high in B12. And, make sure your protein intake is adequate. Roughly 40 grams of protein daily as a minimum and twice that if you are physically active.

I know that you read the news at least 10 percent as much as I do. I know that you know the history of the McCain/Palin campaign. I know you know that the pregnant daughter's "condition" was used to insinuate that Palin was not what she "pretended" to be. I know that you know that people accused the same daughter of being the actual Mom of Trig and said that Palin covered it up pretending Trig was her child. I know that you know that Palin's child Trig (Down's syndrome) was also viewed as a threat to abortion supporters who would argue that Trig was a perfect example of child to abort... and they hated Palin for parading the child around saying that she was proud to be his Mother and that she opposed abortion.

So...
has anyone accused the Obama's of not being the actual parents of their children?
has anyone ever said anything offensive regarding anything specifically related to their children?


All a stupid little special interest group did was say that the Obama children attend a private school and get better food than kids in a public school...

There seems to be a big difference in the treatment of Palin's kids and Obama's kids...

And, I am tired of you acting like you don't understand that...

[92bDad]

Ever notice that Cows don't eat meat, but Lions do?

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I know that you read the news at least 10 percent as much as I do. I know that you know the history of the McCain/Palin campaign. I know you know that the pregnant daughter's "condition" was used to insinuate that Palin was not what she "pretended" to be. I know that you know that people accused the same daughter of being the actual Mom of Trig and said that Palin covered it up pretending Trig was her child. I know that you know that Palin's child Trig (Down's syndrome) was also viewed as a threat to abortion supporters who would argue that Trig was a perfect example of child to abort... and they hated Palin for parading the child around saying that she was proud to be his Mother and that she opposed abortion.

So...
has anyone accused the Obama's of not being the actual parents of their children?
has anyone ever said anything offensive regarding anything specifically related to their children?

All a stupid little special interest group did was say that the Obama children attend a private school and get better food than kids in a public school...

There seems to be a big difference in the treatment of Palin's kids and Obama's kids...

And, I am tired of you acting like you don't understand that...

soy fortified with b12 is commonly ingested to resolve the issue.

lmao! so you hang your premise on the debunked nobody takes it seriously internet rumour that lasted for a weekend about sarah palin not being the mother of trig?

just who talked about the downs kid in an "offensive" way? who???? as ben stein says "anybody?" the answer: nobody.

you failed, care to try again?

edit: gee, just found this interesting tidbit I'd forgotten about mccain/palin ad that invoked obama kids
I don't recall any obama/biden ads that pictured the palin kids, do you?

[FINtastic]

[wmbwinn]

As I noted, you need to look for B12 supplements or fortified food which is what you admitted by indicated that you prefer soy products fortified with B12.

You still overlook major points to focus on twisting the most minor points. You ignored the majority of my explanation.

You also have not addressed the main issue which was:

Obama is furious that the silly little special interest group pictured his daughters without maligning his daughters or him.

Even your weak objections support my assertion that there is hypocrisy at play. What infuriates Obama is minimal. What was done to Palin using her children for political purposes was much larger and more egregious.

Hence the title I chose using the reference to the Pot calling the Kettle black...

Why try to derail me by arguing the extent that Palin's children were used for political purposes? That has nothing to do with the point that Obama is furious over the Vegan ad while allowing/ignoring the more egregious violation of the "leave the kids out of it rule" of politics in the matter of Palin...