Kidd to Dallas? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hitman · 06-23-2003, 01:25 PM

The more I think about this, the more I am inclined to not want to trade Nash for Kidd. NVE for Kidd, that is a different story.

Steve Nash is too important to this team, both on the floor and in the locker room. You put Nash and Kidd on the floor TOGETHER with Dirk Nowitzki and you are talking about something Don Nelson is fantasizing about.

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: OutletPass
Would you rather have JO or would you rather have jKidd ?

Why not both? The reports I read indicated that the Pacers were more interested in NVE.

Hitman · 06-23-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Nash wouldn't be a backup... the mavs would find some way to have fin, nash, and kidd in the lineup at the same time.

but, that's irrelevent. I'm sure NJ would want a PG the caliber of nash..not NVE.

But Murph, if the Nets are facing losing Kidd to the Spurs for nothing, or losing Kidd to the Mavs and getting Nick in return, they are going to prefer Dallas. Give NVE to the Nets and they have a chance of making the finals again next year in the weak East. Take Kidd away and replace him with Anthony Johnson and the Nets are BACK in the lottery.

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 01:51 PM

double post

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
one thing to consider..
if you trade Nash and you end up with Kidd and NVE..that would be a decent chunk of your shots going in at a 40% clip.

Can you afford that? Can you afford to have two guys taking 13+ shots a game that can't shoot the ball consistently?

Plus, fin's FG% dropped significantly..what if it doesn't bounce back this year?
That would leave the Mavs with 2 pg's that can't shoot consistently to save their lives and a SG that is shooting at a clip well below his norm a few years back.

That would be some atrocious shooting from the guard spots

The mavs will have zero need for NVE if Nash is traded. Why have a backup for a guy who plays superstar minutes? Nash is fragile not Kidd so he won't need as much rest.

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
Salary wise, Nash for Kidd would make absolutely no sense. NVE will make almost 13mil next season, you add that to Kidd's big payday, you will be in salary cap hell.

We're going to be in salary cap hell for a LOOONG time. Don't forget that Nash gets a big pay raise after next year.

Usually Lurkin · 06-23-2003, 02:12 PM

kidd for nash throws our "so many shooters" approach right out the window. (as Rhylan and Murphy have mentioned)
The Mavs would be heading in another direction, and I'd say a traditional inside presence would be even more important.

If I had to choose between JO and Kidd, I'd take JO.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 02:19 PM

MFFL, you hit on a point that I was thinking about... with kidd, at least you wouldn't need as many minutes out of the backup PG spot..which, would make NVE even more expendable.

Now, if the mavs were to move nash, you better make damn sure there's somewhere to ship NVE..kidd and NVE don't mix IMO
could it possibly lead to JO.

well, possibly..
something to explore

Charlie Brown · 06-23-2003, 02:21 PM

kind of a side issue, but still adds a little more substance to stein's theory.

Kidd, Cuban Talk About Charity Golf Event

By HAL BOCK
AP Sports Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- Well aware of how much NBA commissioner David Stern likes to poke around in Mark Cuban's wallet, free-agent-to-be Jason Kidd chose his words carefully at an appearance Monday with the owner of the Dallas Mavericks.

Kidd talked about his summer plans to play in the American Century Golf Championship at Lake Tahoe, Nev., July 18-20. The event will benefit the Fallen Patriot Fund for families of Americans lost in the conflict in Iraq.

"That's the one trip I have planned," Kidd said, looking at Cuban, a major sponsor of the Fund. "Tahoe, not Dallas. We know how much the league loves Cuban. I don't want to get him in trouble."

Cuban smiled. He has been fined eight times for over $1 million in his three years in the league. Never for tampering, though. "I want to keep my money for the Fund," he said.

So Cuban played caddie as Kidd, accompanied by his 4-year-old son, T.J., launched a couple of dozen golf shots and talked about his free agent options.

Kidd began his NBA career with the Mavericks and moved to Phoenix before being traded to New Jersey two years ago. He has led the Nets to the NBA Finals in both those seasons and will be free to flee starting July 1.

Kidd said his agent, Jeff Schwartz, would arrive in town Monday night. "We've talked a little," he said. "We'll go to the board room. There's a lot of things going on. We'll see what happens."

For Kidd, the choice will come down to the best opportunity to win an NBA title.

"It falls to winning," he said. "I want to try to win a championship. You have an opportunity. You're not promised to get back. The big thing for me has been a chance to win. I want to win.

"We had a golden opportunity and we didn't get over the hump. It always hurts. We'll see what happens."

There has been speculation that Kidd might stay in New Jersey because his wife, Joumana, has built a successful career in broadcasting in the New York metropolitan area. Kidd downplayed that.

"Joumana has done quite well with her career," Kidd said. "No matter where we end up, she could make something out of her career."

Cuban said he is close to agreeing to a new contract with coach Don Nelson.

"We're trying to finish everything up," the owner said. "It's a process. Nothing is done until it's done."

Nelson said Sunday that he has an agreement in principle with Cuban.

"I've been offered a three-year extension to coach the Mavericks and we're working the details out," Nelson said Sunday. "Things are going along nicely. I'm not anticipating any problems with it. Mark wants me back and I want to be back, so you can imagine that we'll figure out a way to make it work."

Nelson also would continue as the Mavericks' general manager for the next three seasons, then work for five years as a team consultant.

Meanwhile, Cuban launched the Fallen Patriot Fund as part of his Foundation. He has pledged to match donations dollar for dollar up to $1 million.

The American Century Championship, a celebrity tournament which will be broadcast by NBC, will be a primary fund-raiser for the Fallen Patriot Fund. A part of the $500,000 purse won by players who retain their amateur status will be donated.

Last year, the event raised $140,000 for the Uniformed Firefighters Association Scholarship Fund.

Tony tha Mavs fan · 06-23-2003, 02:23 PM

if a Nash and LaFrentz trade for kidd would work out i would do it. I think having a player who would actually grab more rebounds than Lafrentz would help alot, and i'm sure the Nets would be back in the NBA finals with the lineup they would get from that trade.

cookies_n_mavs · 06-23-2003, 02:33 PM

I have a question: If Nash leaves, would the Mavericks style of play also leave with him?

Tony tha Mavs fan · 06-23-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

"That's the one trip I have planned," Kidd said, looking at Cuban, a major sponsor of the Fund. "Tahoe, not Dallas. We know how much the league loves Cuban."

hmmmmmm i wonder what that's about

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 02:40 PM

So for the fun of trades and all the rumors involving the mavericks of late:

1) Trade Nash/Raef to New Jersey for Kidd.
2) Trade NVE/AJ to Indiana for J. Oneal.

PG: KIDD, FA BACKUP OR TINSLEY?
SG: FINLEY, BELL, MLADEN
SF: DIRK, TAW, WALT
PF: ONEAL, NAJERA
C: MOURNING, BRADLEY, ESCH

u2sarajevo · 06-23-2003, 02:46 PM

Ok, you know how to get my blood pumping. This is fun speculating all of this, I would be happy if either deal could get done.

Maringa · 06-23-2003, 03:11 PM

Caption: Kidd to Cuban...I can't wait to see the look on Nash's face when he receives word that he is being traded to New Joisey!!!!

Mandyahl · 06-23-2003, 03:14 PM

i would much rather us go after a big man than kidd. if that doesn't work out, i don't mind trading nve for kidd, but nash for kidd? well, don't know. that changes the whole way we play because then we only would have two real scorers in dirk and fin. not having that third offensive threat that the defense has to respect makes it harder on both of them. i am just not sure how much of an upgrade kidd is over nash, especially with the players we have on our team.

anyway, i don't think we need to be trying to keep kidd from san antonio either. in fact, i would almost like to see him go there because i don't think he improves that team that much and he would take up a lot of money, keeping them from going after other players that would help them more.

mavs_girl1987 · 06-23-2003, 03:37 PM

I dont think if kidd plays well or not, but Nash can't leave...if kidd wants to win a championship, he has to win it with his team...I don't want kidd in my team

cookies_n_mavs · 06-23-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavs_girl1987
I dont think if kidd plays well or not, but Nash can't leave...if kidd wants to win a championship, he has to win it with his team...I don't want kidd in my team

That logic isn't entirely solid, IMO..because in the same vein, you could say "if Nellie wants to win a championship, he has to win it with his same roster". This is why the draft and trades are so important, because if you want your team to win, the personel has to adjust sometimes.

And your team? What's Mark Cuban, chopped liver? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 03:49 PM

ofcourse we should go after a big guy!Kidd would be nice to have but we really dont need an upgrade on the PG spot.
however,a good PF in the example of JO or Elton would surely mean we would be favorites to win the championship.
besides,i think it was brought up already,i dont think Kidd could manage with either of our PG's,Kidd is playing nearly 38 minutes per game,and even if we cut down on Finley' minutes,i think Nick would still have to compremise for something like 18 minutes.
Nash would never agree to be a sub,not at the level his game is.
if we manage to sign and trade for Kidd,we need to trade the other PG,cause i cant see this working out.

Jeremiah · 06-23-2003, 04:01 PM

I like Nash on this team a lot. Kidd would be interesting. Perhaps he might get the ball to Raef more often in his favorite spots. Perhaps this makes Raef look like a good investment. We might see more alley oops from fin, TAW and Raja.

Our perimeter D improves. Our rebounding from the backcourt improves immensely, though Eddie might get less rebounds. He's not going to shoot as much as Nash, because he's not as good of a shooter, so he'll be back up to 10 or 11 assists/game.

The bonus out of this is that we could then send Nick away for a really good 3, like Artest and Harrington, or...hmm, I can't seem to think of many out there. Maybe Battier and Swift and filler. Or Rose, though I'd rather have one that doesn't need to dominate the ball so much. Of course, we could also send him to Toronto for, geez, they don't have much there except for the pick.

But I like Nash...

u2sarajevo · 06-23-2003, 04:01 PM

Give us Kidd with a sign/trade and pick up Zo with MLE and we are talking R-E-S-P-E-C-T. But NP, if it were a choice between JO or Kidd, JO would top my list.

And I don't agree with your minutes argument. Nellie does a pretty good job of getting his players minutes. Small ball, F'em ball, whatever it takes to get a W.

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: cookies_n_mavs
I have a question: If Nash leaves, would the Mavericks style of play also leave with him?

I wouldn't mind the Mavs being able to play a more traditional form of basketball. The Mavs style of play is all style and very little substance. It will get you wins in the regular season and might win a playoff series or two but the Mavs will never consistently deep into the playoffs.

jacktruth · 06-23-2003, 04:12 PM

But my greatest fear (well, maybe not my greatest) is the mavs turning into a slow, boring, half-court offence. Did you watch the finals? I've seen golf tournaments more exciting.

Kidd is a higher commodity, for sure. But I admit I would mish Nash's uptempo style.

Ummmmm Ok · 06-23-2003, 04:14 PM

If thats what it takes to "get" to the finals so be it!! I want the Mavs to have Rings and I don't care how they get em.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 04:15 PM

funny thing,i compared Kidds stats to Steve per 48 minutes,and its not that big of a difference.

Kidd:
FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS

8.3-20.0 .414 2.0-5.9 .341 5.4-6.5 .841 2.87 0.4 4.8 2.0 1.8 6.3 8.1 11.4 24.0

Nash:

9.2-19.7 .465 2.0-4.8 .413 5.5-6.0 .909 1.50 0.1 3.4 2.4 1.1 3.0 4.1 10.6 25.8

nash has more Points,a little less assists,1.4 TOs less,and far better % in everything.
Kidd is still a better defender,and maybe more of a leader than Nash,though it could be argued against,but i dont think those slight differences justifies making such a bold move,that would surely change the team style of play,and in my opinion will require us to get rid off NVE aswell.

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: nowitzki_prophecy
funny thing,i compared Kidds stats to Steve per 48 minutes,and its not that big of a difference.

What about the extra 4 boards per game?

MFFL · 06-23-2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: nowitzki_prophecy
funny thing,i compared Kidds stats to Steve per 48 minutes,and its not that big of a difference.

What about the almost DOUBLE steals per game?

Chicago JK · 06-23-2003, 04:18 PM

I only do this trade if we get Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer back in this trade.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 04:21 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm not), but doesn't kidd like to get up and down the court? Bringing Kidd in won't turn the Mavs into a slow it up half court team all the time. It might help allow the mavs to do so whenever necessary though

seelenjaeger · 06-23-2003, 04:22 PM

Sorry, too lazy to go through all those replies, but actually i think Steve Nash makes too few money to be involved in this trade, unless the Nets accept him beeing teamed with LaFrentz and maybe other "filllers"

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 04:24 PM

MFFL,as i see it the steals are part of the better defender arguement,i gave JK credit for that.
as for the rebounds,well,i doubt any of you actualy pick JK over Steve cause of the rebounds,its something but i dont really give a #^(*# if my PG can rebound,its a nice addition but would certainly would'nt solve our rebounding issues.
the entire point was to shot the differences between them arent that big.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 04:29 PM

SJ,financely,i dont think it would be too hard to level the plains,Tariq earns 5 Mil a year,and we could always send AJ.

Quote:

Correct me if i'm wrong (and i'm not), but doesn't kidd like to get up and down the court? Bringing Kidd in won't turn the Mavs into a slow it up half court team all the time. It might help allow the mavs to do so whenever necessary though

nobody is doubting his stamina,he can run with the best of them,in fact,his fast break is one of the best in the league right now.
but its his shooting,and his style of offense that would change us.
he's a very poor shooter,and his style of offense is much less Up tempo than Nash'.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 04:31 PM

something else to think about..if it comes down to dallas and san antonio, how much does keeping him away from the spurs way into the equation?

yes, i know this has ben brought up..but not in awhile

Stressboy · 06-23-2003, 04:36 PM

Trade Nash for Kidd, hell yes. Why?

1) I don't believe that Nash will survive in this league for 7-8 more years and that is what we are looking at paying him in 2 years.
2) the trade value of Kidd is way more than Nash and should have been way more than Finley and AC Green.
3) Kidd is only 1 year older and more durable see #1.
4) Would I rather trade NVE for Kidd sure, but if it takes Nash then go for it because when you think about it NVE is a better fit with Kidd than Nash. NVE can get his own shot unlike Nash. NVE is a better 2 guard if you go small than Nash. NVE with Kidd on the Nets would have won it all. Come to think of it, maybe we could trade NVE for Kristic, Aaron Williams and their pick this year [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].

If we have to lose Raef to get it done then I want their 1st and 2nd round picks this year or the rights to Kristic (they won't do that).

Nash
Kittles
Jefferson
Martin
Raef

Should still win the east.

Kidd/NVE
Finley/#22 Planicic/Diaw???
Dirk/Oggy
Malone/#29 Baidene or Perkins
Bradley/Esh/Second Rounder???

Should challenge for the West.

Stressboy

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 04:40 PM

i dont think he's to eager to join SA,in the same reason Malone is.
they already won the championship,and they want to come as those that made the championship happen,not another addition,that maybe didnt do anything.
if anything,they could only screw it up for themselvs,cause if SA would'nt win than they would probably blame Kidd.

Murphy3 · 06-23-2003, 04:45 PM

nash is very good at getting his own shot stressboy. just about as good as NVE. One thing, even though NVE gets his shots easier at times, Nash knocks down a much higher percentage.

Can you afford to have NVE and Kidd on the same team taking alot of shots? Both are very poor shooters over the long haul. Both can shoot a team right out of game.

They are 40% shooters for a reason. Why? Because they miss 60% of their shots.

I don't think you can afford to have NVE and Kidd in the same backcourt. The shooting would be too bad to overcome over the long haul. If Kidd were brought in for nash, NVE would also have to be dealt.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 04:49 PM

very good point murph,with Kidd running the floor,i can see us struggling from the field.
despire his poor percantile,he likes to take shots,like we saw in the finals.
he's an excellent operator of players,but he could defenitly deny Dirk the ball,at least as much as steve does.

foglemann · 06-23-2003, 05:14 PM

To add to Murph's statements, I think an article about a month ago talked about Nash's FG%. It said something about being the highest FG% over 48 min. for point guards. I think he was top five for the amount of minutes played, right behind Shaq and a few other big guys. So Nash is by far one of the most effecient PG at shooting in the league. You take that away, diffenitly some trouble. I just don't want to break up the big 3 for someone that doesn't add enough or takes away too much from the entire team. After Dirk, Fin, and Nick we have athletic guys like Raja and TAW and then stiffs in Esch, Brad, Raef. I don't think he can do what he does with the teams like the Nets, Suns, or the Three J's.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-23-2003, 05:19 PM

yea,and to think about all those weird shots his taking,impossible shots,but sinks most of them.

DNNF · 06-23-2003, 05:41 PM

Why do we need Kidd? I rather have Kidd joined the SA than have JO joined them. Go after JO instead. !! We already have two quality PGs.